General Question

stanleybmanly's avatar

What's with the raging epidemic of cops shooting black folks?

Asked by stanleybmanly (22360points) September 20th, 2016 from iPhone

From appearances, there seems to be a no holds barred all out effort on the part of the nation’s police forces to validate the claim that black folks are “fair game”.

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103 Answers

monthly's avatar

My guess is that it’s always been there. It’s just that the prevalence of portable video has brought it to consciousness.

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Cruiser's avatar

What is this claim that “blacks are fair game”? Got any sources on this claim?

Love_my_doggie's avatar

Is it a “raging epidemic,” or is it the long-term status quo? I’d guess that nothing’s changed except the recent spate of video recordings and the resulting media attention.

kritiper's avatar

Being black has nothing to do with it. Anybody of any color can be shot by anybody of any color around here. Cops, cowboys, drunks, spurned lovers… You name it. I suspect this is also true everywhere else. Everybody is just too quick to go to the gun and not stop to think about the consequences. Crazy stuff. Insane!

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Cops are shooting people all the time. What has changed is people now seem to think compliance is optional & the media has made it a racial issue. While there are racist and bigoted trigger happy cops out there the bulk of these incidents are not the fault of the police. Put yourself in their shoes.

zenvelo's avatar

Yep, that poor guy in Tulsa should have known it is a capital offense to have his car break down.

Disarm the cops. Most police in Great Britain don’t carry a weapon any stronger than a baton.

Coloma's avatar

@zenvelo Yes, but….then what? Cops without weapons and all the goons that still have them. It would be a massacre of cops and civilians of unprecedented proportion.
In order for that to work we would have to disarm the entire nation and we all know that’s never going to happen.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

I’m not for disarming the nation. People just need to calm the fuck down.

zenvelo's avatar

…and we all know that’s never going to happen..

We can start! Time to repeal the 2nd Amendment. And stop the militarization of the civilian police.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I have said this before I think your nations Police forces need more or better training for their officers.
Until that happens I don’t see anything improving any time soon.
And @Cruiser it has been all over the news and other sources that if you’re a Black male your chances of getting shot by police are a lot higher than anyone else.

Seek's avatar

but what about the white men?!? White guys get shot sometimes too! You’re not being fair!!~~~

SQUEEKY2's avatar

HUH?? @Seek I don’t understand where you are coming from with that answer^^ Of course other people get shot as well just your chances are are a lot higher if you’re a black male .

Brian1946's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Note the triple tilde at the end of @Seek‘s comment.

Cruiser's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I just saw this Tulsa shooting and my fear is now the cops all have a much higher chance of getting shot than blacks and whites combined.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Cruiser That is your fear and opinion but if the police keep up with this kind of action, I fear you could be correct.
I just watched it as well why would ANYONE try anything with that many cops with tazers and guns drawn on you try anything??
Your wonderful country is scaring the shit out of me right now, with a mad rich guy running for your top job , and the police with all these shootings.
It has been over 18years since I have been in the states and with current events I really hope I never have to go down there again.

zenvelo's avatar

@Cruiser Why do you have that fear, when the cop executed that guy?

Cruiser's avatar

@zenvelo Just stating the obvious is all. Each time there is a cop shooting a black person, a half dozen cops are ambushed and it is only going to get worse here on out.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 despite what is on tv things are generally better than when you were here last.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh @ARE_you_kidding_me and how are they better?? Please do tell.

Coloma's avatar

@zenvelo I’d agree but man, I’m telling you, everyone up here in the hills are hardcore right to bear arms types. I know someone who just got their CC permit and that makes several. It’s hard being an old hippie type in redneck bubba land. haha
I know that’s not PC, oh well, so shoot me. lol

I am surrounded by hardcore gun owners up here, most Trump supporters too.
Thankfully I do have more liberal minded bohemian friends as well but it really is amazing how staunch the NRA supporters are. I just smile and change the subject when the issue comes up, not going to change anyone and while many of these people are really good people they, for sure, are in the “pry my gun from my cold dead hands” camp. There are 3 kinds of people in these hills.

Us old hippie, back to nature, free spirited, more liberal types, old timer cowboy types and Bay area and LA transplants that complain about your rooster crowing on your 12 acre property and freak out when they see wildlife in their yards. haha

ucme's avatar

Your cops are thick as pig shit racist monkeys with guns & it is as simple as that.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@Cruiser Isn’t “black lives matter” the functional embodiment of “the claim”? And don’t you think that the overwhelming number of black Americans routinely feel themselves at inordinate risk when dealing with cops?

Cruiser's avatar

@stanleybmanly I have felt at risk in the presence of Cops my whole life but a few instances aside, I never had that much of problem with the Cops because I respected them and did exactly as they demanded I do. In a vast majority of these “black lives matter” events, I see blatant disrespect from these individuals with total non-compliance of the officers commands. And thanks to the media we often are not afforded the visual recordings of the initial interactions between the individual and the police where commands to do as they are told are repeatedly given and only get the part where hot lead flies and a person dies and often in great contrast to what really went down. So no surprise people get upset when they only see death at the hands of cops largely in part to these “black lives” who choose to not obey the officers initial commands.

zenvelo's avatar

@Cruiser One of the reasons that this is more than just ”...blatant disrespect from these individuals with total non-compliance of the officers commands.”

Many times the initial contact with police is harassing, questioning the presence of black people where a white person would not be stopped or questioned. Cops don’t pull white people over for broken taillights, They don’t shoot white people for non compliance.

Yesterday, another man was killed in Charlotte NC for getting out of his car with a book. The man, who did not own a gun, supposedly had a firearm. The family disputes that.

Meanwhile, the cop gets a paid vacation, and knows he won;t get any punishment or discipline.

Cruiser's avatar

@zenvelo I disagree as most of my unfun encounters with the cops were just because of taillights not working properly, changing lanes without signaling, too loud of exhaust, my car fitting the description of a car that was involved in a domestic dispute…all BS reasons for pulling me over. Even when having a mag light thrust into my breast bone while I was further interrogated by the cops all because I had a nice hot rod and long hair…I never once gave the cops lip and always did as they demanded. Yeah I hated the police, I even feared the police but I also feared my parents more which gave me all the more reason to comply with the cops.

As far as Charlotte and Tulsa once again both events are being litigated out in the media and the vapid public including you hves become judge, jury and executioner way before any of the facts are determined before court is even convened. These singular events are elevated to a level that is unprecedented in our life and times. Cops have shot and killed unarmed people since the advent of firearms and criminals have assassinated cops all along as well and find it curious that now it is such an issue while ignoring the real issue and that is why these events are really happening.

And again I take it back to the initial confrontations and from what I have seen in most if not all these events had the person implicitly complied with the police officers demands, they all would still be alive today. I am sure none of these cops woke up that day and said I am going to go out and kill me a black person.

cazzie's avatar

Seek and I are making a list of men that can’t seem to see reality because they haz beend wrongd and haz feelz, too.

Seek's avatar

Poor white guys. So misunderstood, so alive to complain about it.

aldvp's avatar

If you read the details of all these cases, it seems poor behavior is what warrants the shootings. They were either beating up cops with their own equipment, or they tried to grab the cop’s gun.

In other cases, they were shot because their own attack on the cops triggered an accidental discharge. Other blacks were shot by stray bullets that wee intended for the criminal being pursued. They just happened to be black bystanders.

Seek's avatar

That is patently false, @aldvp

stanleybmanly's avatar

@aldvp this latest string of incidents lacks any of the “provocations” you list.

aldvp's avatar

@Seek

No, it isn’t. I read it. My eyes did not deceive me. It is public information. Look it up. Check out the famous incident of the Michael Brown shooting and the shooting of Dontre Hamilton. Dontre attacked the officer and the officer shot him 14 times in self-defense.

@stanleybmanly

I only recall one recent incident where this might be the case. The shooting of Crutcher. That is still under investigation. Are you referring to that? If you have other cases, I would like to see them.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

If a simple traffic stop results in a death where the person is unarmed and largely compliant we have a really big fucking problem. Some of the cases are like this but most are not. Regardless, most cops are really stand up people but I know personally for a fact some are unfit for duty.

aldvp's avatar

The examples I gave were in reference to unarmed shootings and why they were justified in being shot. If we’re talking about armed incidents, then that comprises most of the shootings. Certainly justified. They either reached for a gun, had a gun on them, had a toy gun that resembled a real gun, had a bb gun, or disobeyed orders by reaching for something that could be a gun, or stepping out of the car or moving from their position. That is what happened in the shooting of Jerame Reid. He was justifiably shot even if he was unarmed.

It isn’t just traffic stops. Tony Robinson attacked an officer in a house before being shot to death. Tony was unarmed. You’re not innocent just because you don’t have a gun on you.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

If routine traffic stops are this dangerous now they frankly don’t need to happen anymore. I hate speed and redlight cameras but at least they won’t shoot you in the face.

Cruiser's avatar

@stanleybmanly Not all the facts are in on either case so really too early to ‘rush to a judgement’ but the latest I have heard is Tulsa dude was given not one, not two not three commands to stop but twelve commands to stop. Said person apparently also had a criminal record that the cops who stopped him were well aware of. Allegedly this man chose to not obey the cops commands and is not alive to tell his side of the story.

Mr. NC allegedly decided to play tough guy and not only not obey the police commands but he felt it necessary to wave a loaded hand gun at the cops. He disobeyed not one, not two, not three commands to drop the weapon…but repeated commands to drop the weapon….guess what….the cops deemed him enough of a threat to use lethal force. Not that it really matters to me but I believe is relevant to the response the black community had to this event is that the cop that shot this dude was black and the police chief who is providing the details to this shooting is also black.

Don’t tell the rioters these cruicial details…they must be over tired and need their excuse to vent.

Coloma's avatar

@Cruiser Yep, too bad buddy, you blew it, and because you blew it you got blown away.
Anyone that fails to comply with multiple requests is just asking for it IMO, race doesn’t enter into it. The bad, trigger happy cops exist but in cases like this, well…fools and their lives are soon parted.

zenvelo's avatar

@Cruiser Then why won’t the police release the video? Their excuse that to hey need a court order is bogus, the law is not in effect.

We only have cop’s word that he had a gun or waved it. Besides, NC is an open carry state. If he was white he would still be alive.

Cruiser's avatar

@zenvelo In this case as in all the other cases before it is pretty simple…evidence is not released until it has been processed by the courts. History has shown that trial by media is a recipe for rioting.

Coloma's avatar

@zenvelo We can’t know that for certain, the cop that shot him was black, clearly he made an executive decision based on threat not color.

Cruiser's avatar

@zenvelo I have always regarded your comments and opinions as reasoned, smart and balanced….but how do you justify saying that because NC is an open carry state that somehow what this man did is allowable and or justifiable? Where in the open carry statutes, rules and regulations does it state that upon approval of your open carry application you are now entitled to disregard police commands when confronted and additionally wave a loaded weapon at cops in a threatening manor in the process?? Seriously? You are not issued an open carry permit unless you have passed the training that is specifically intended to prevent these types of situations.

zenvelo's avatar

NC doesn’t require a permit to open carry, only for concealed carry.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I’ll wait it out for a final assessment on all of these. But I find it interesting that I cannot wake in the morning without hearing of another black man shot up by cops somewhere in the country under questionable circumstances. Considering the overall gun homicide statistics for the country, for all I know, 1 or 2 black men a day might actually be a reduction statistically. Whatever the reasons or outcome, I personally think it rather a relief to the black community to finally exist in an environment where no such incident is permitted to go unnoticed.

jca's avatar

The guy in Tulsa had a gun? I didn’t hear that. Not saying it’s not true, just that I didn’t read it (yet) anywhere.

What I didn’t understand is why they shot him so soon after they tazed him. OK, the one cop tazed him and then immediately the other cop shot him. Makes no sense.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The one that I just can’t get past is the Miami therapist lying on his back with his hands in air, fingers spread wide. There is no explaining away that shooting. The the therapist asks the cop “why did you shoot me?” The answer : “I don’t know”

Cruiser's avatar

@zenvelo Thanks for pointing out the open carry part but in this case that would not apply as Mr. Scott was was sentenced to seven years in prison on a conviction of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon which is a felony and felons cannot own or posses firearms. Had he abided by these restrictions I would wager he would still be alive today.

jca's avatar

According to CNN, the victim Mr. Crutcher was unarmed.

Link: www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/us/terence-crutcher-police-shooting-point-counterpoint/

Cruiser's avatar

@jca I was referring to the NC shooting victim who had a gun not the Tulsa man.

zenvelo's avatar

@Cruiser The NC shooting victim’s “possession of a gun” has not been confirmed. The police said that, not an independent source.

The CMPD could settle people down this morning by releasing video showing the victim waving the gun as they allege.

aldvp's avatar

@stanleybmanly If you take a look at the prison population in the United States, around 70% are comprised of black and hispanic descent. Locally, depending on location, it can be worse. 90% of NYC jail population is black and hispanic, 7% white. When I use to live in NYC, there wasn’t a day on the local news that didn’t report a black man as the perpetrator of a violent crime. If you tune in to the news now, you can still see this today.

My point is that since criminals in the United States tend to be of black and hispanic origin, the likelihood of you seeing an incident between a cop and a black man is going to be extremely high.

In general, violent crimes in the United States has been trending down.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Do you SERIOUSLY contend that the majority of violent crimes in this country are committed by blacks and Hispanics?

Seek's avatar

Your assessment of crime statistics is exactly backwards, @aldvp

Blacks and Hispanics are not responsible for 70–90% of crime. They are disproportionately convicted of their crimes, while whites who commit the same crimes are often given the benefit of the doubt.

Especially in NYC, where “stop and frisk” laws are openly profiling blacks and Hispanics. Do you honestly think there aren’t just as high a percentage of white dudes walking around with weed in their pockets as there are blacks?

If you do, you’re wrong.

stanleybmanly's avatar

And do you actually believe that the huge disproportion of black and Hispanic prisoners is an accurate indicator of their criminal involvement relative to their white counterparts?

stanleybmanly's avatar

The TRUTH is more like, if you assume every black man is a criminal, you are entitled to challenge ALL of them as well as shoot those who protest their innocence. If you have 2 separate populations of comparable size separated by railroad tracks, and everyone is routinely searched and frisked exclusively on one side of the tracks, which population is it that will be the dependable resource for the prison industry?

aldvp's avatar

@stanleybmanly Look at the data yourself. They do a yearly analysis. link Blacks and hispanics are a minority in this country. They only comprise 30% of the general u.s population and the majority of the prison population.Think of the severity of those numbers.

@Seek Conviction means responsible for criminal activity. Weed isn’t a violent crime and accusations of institutional discrimination is patently false. The raw data speaks for itself. 90% of criminals are of black and hispanic descent in the NYC link

Since the majority of criminals are black and hispanic, then stop and frisk will be applied more to that descent. Common sense dictates you go where the crimes are saturated. In NYC, that tends to be in black and hispanic neighborhoods.

Seek's avatar

You’re using the end result of discrimination to justify discrimination.

Seek's avatar

But you’ve openly stated elsewhere that you’re a racist, so I can’t be surprised.

aldvp's avatar

@Seek That is like accusing the u.s government of being sexist because most prisoners are males. All these false accusations are not based on any real evidence. It is the same type of arguments made for aliens and other conspiracy theories. I can’t take your response seriously.

Where have I openly stated I am racist? Source?

stanleybmanly's avatar

It’s a self fulfilling condition and the obtuse numbers in the jails are not a reflection of their participation in criminal pursuits. All that is required to stand those statistics on their head OVERNIGHT, is to hound and harass the white community to the extent that such policies are executed in minority communities. If you consider for example the great bulk of black men in prison are there for drug offenses, it doesn’t require a PHD in criminology to understand that it’s the folks who are stopped and frisked that are going to get caught. If you can stop 40 black men for every white “citizen”, which population is going to overcrowd the jails?

aldvp's avatar

@stanleybmanly True. However, convicted prisoners are a reflection of criminal activity. That is why they also do analysis on prisoners that were already convicted. If you look here link you will see that 74% of the convicted prisoners are comprised of black and hispanic descent. It isn’t that far off from the jail stats.

You’re incorrect on your assessment of drug offenses. Drug offenses are only a small percentage of the prison population – 14%. Gangs in the United States are mostly comprised of blacks and hispanics. The primary activity is heavy drug pushing. The reason they end up in prison is because of the extremely large quantities of drugs that they push to the public. You don’t go to prison for having a small patch of weed in your possession.

aldvp's avatar

@Seek Cultural diversity. What does that have to with the color of one’s skin? If a black person shares the same culture as mine, I would have no reason to be intolerant of him. It is just that the likelihood of him having the same culture as mine is small.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Well, in my city when I sat on the grand jury 70–80% of the crimes were done by black males from the inner city. Sure opened my eyes. Stabbings, shootings, crack, you name it. Eliminate that inner city crime and it was a pretty proportional slice of the population and usually drugs or alcohol related.

Cruiser's avatar

@zenvelo They have confirmed the gun with a picture taken by a news reporter at the scene and why I gave my answer.

zenvelo's avatar

@Cruiser Video raises a question of the gun being planted. It is not evident for the first 1:40, then when the camera pans away and then back, it is on the ground.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@aldvp Convicted criminals are indeed a reflection of criminal activity. But the point that is equally true but conveniently overlooked is that convicted criminals are a reflection of WHO YOU CHOOSE TO PROSECUTE.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Most of us never consider the actual purpose and functioning of the police or the criminal justice system beyond the scrawny presentations passing for civics lessons in our grade and high schools. And when it comes to cops and black folks, the civics lessons are deliberately suppressed, because the truth is not one bit conducive to the public peace.

Cruiser's avatar

@zenvelo I am not sure what to think now. There is that picture though not fully clear shows something resembling a gun near the feet of the victim….then you have the video shot by the victims wife that at no times shows and object at the feet of the victim. What we do have that is hard to dismiss is the cops loudly and clearly commanding the victim to “drop the gun”. I do not think cops would issue that demand if there was not a weapon in his hand and clearly visible. Plus you have the wife make mention that he has a traumatic brain injury and just took his meds and then she is heard screaming for him to do what the cops are asking and then “Keith don’t do it” many times. Then he is shot.

What I want to know is what happened that these cops who were there to serve a warrant to another individual at the apartment complex got them to engage Mr. Scott?

Seek's avatar

I do not think cops would issue that demand if there was not a weapon in his hand and clearly visible

Hahahahahahahahaha…

That’s adorable.

Cruiser's avatar

@Seek Your cynacism comes as no surprise…but please share your conceptualization of a possible reason a crew of cops who were there to serve a warrant to someone else instead would conspire together to many times yell at this complete stranger to drop the gun? Then blow him away? Can’t wait to hear your reasoning on this.

ucme's avatar

It all plays out like a kinda Mel Brooks/Tarantino snuff movie, except no one’s laughing

Seek's avatar

@Cruiser – Because becoming a police officer with a license to kill requires less training than the average daycare teacher receives, and has fewer consequences for a job poorly done.

aldvp's avatar

@stanleybmanly I already told you why that is nonsense. It is like saying there is institutional sexism because most of the prisoners are males. You have no evidence of actual institutional discrimination.

Prosecution of criminals is based on substantial evidence of criminal activity, not the color of their skin. Blacks and hispanics are prosecuted the most because they comprise most of the criminal activities.

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Cruiser's avatar

Nice try with your sound bite answer @Seek but you are way off as usual…to be a day care worker you must have a high school diploma and that’s it. Cops need the HS diploma, pass entrance exams then pass 18 weeks of basic recruit training at a minimum and it does vary state to state. Here is a list of the disciplines that a recruit must learn including 60 hours of firearm training.

Firearms skills 60 hrs
Basic first-aid/CPR 24 hrs
Emergency vehicle operations 36 hrs
Self-defense 44 hrs
Criminal law 40 hrs
Domestic violence 12 hrs
Ethics and integrity 8 hrs
Investigations 45 hrs
Patrol procedures/techniques 40 hrs
Juvenile law and procedures 8 hrs
Constitutional law 11 hrs
Cultural diversity 8 hrs
Health and fitness 50 hrs
Officer civil/criminal liability 6 hrs
Human relations 11 hrs
Use of non-lethal weapons 12 hrs
Community policing 8 hrs
Stress prevention/management 6 hrs
Hate crimes/bias crimes 4 hrs
Mediation skills/conflict management 8 hrs
Domestic preparedness 8 hrs
Problem solving (for example, SARA, CAPRA) 6 hrs
Computers/information systems 8 hrs
Basic foreign language (such as survival Spanish) 16 hrs

Coloma's avatar

Look, the bottom line is this.
Yes, there are trigger happy cops and some real sociopathic ones too, and some that are just not suited to the profession for multiple reasons but…my nephew is a cop in a very bad part of the capitol city in my area and he is a really good guy. There is virtually, zero cooperation when they go door to door looking for violent suspects in some of the bad parts of town. The hood protects the brothers and while it may seem to be that more blacks are being gunned own, the FACT is, that ANYONE that acts in a suspicious manner is suspect and when you’re talking the really bad parts of any city, well, the odds of something bad going down are high.

If you are a cop in some trailer trash, redneck, crazy ass zone in Arkansas you’re just as likely to shoot a white boy as a black boy. I am not saying there are not unjustified killings but come on, would YOU want to be in the position of dealing with anyone, of any color, as a cop, when, after NUMEROUS warnings and attempts to gain control of a situation, the suspect in question continues to defy all requests and orders to SHOW they are in compliance?
I am a middle aged white female and do you think for a moment that if I were pulled over, failed to comply with orders,multiple times and looked as if I had or was reaching for a weapon that I might not be shot as well?
Cops deal with the worst of the worst, every second of their day and can you blame them for treating everyone as a potential shooter, no, you cannot.
I stand firm in the FACT, that if anyone, of any color, is stupid enough to not follow the orders of law enforcement to the LETTER, well, too fucking bad if your shot.
Do what your told and do it the FIRST time and most likely you won’t be seriously harmed.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Good God, I just saw this latest one on our CBC news, his wife video taped it all on her cell phone, she repeatedly told the cops he had no gun, don’t shoot him, and he suffers from a brain injury she called it a T.B.I but they shot him anyways.
Now they are refusing to release their video of the event.
If something doesn’t change soon your country is going to rip itself apart.
I totally agree @Coloma when a cop tells you to do something you do it, BUT these cops do need to recognize people that have brain injuries, and mental illness might have a hard time following these orders, and not to shoot then ask questions.

Coloma's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Yes, but a mentally ill or brain injured person is perfectly capable of being a threat, by the very nature of their disabilities, even more so that your average person, obviously. It’s all just very sad and a big knot to untangle.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So I guess it’s shoot first and ask questions, what after the funeral?
That many cops it would take a mentally ill person or someone with a brain injury to try something.
Without a doubt the majority of police are simply hard working people defending and up holding the law but this shoot first and ask questions later is without a doubt that there has to be better training as how to deal with these types.
Or things are going to get a lot worse for everyone, myself I have never been in trouble with the Police in my life exception of a couple of speeding tickets, and I am scared to even set foot in your country.

Coloma's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 In the heat of the moment police do not have the luxury of saying ” Oh, the guy is mentally ill” or ” oh, he has a brain injury, we better be careful.” It doesn’t matter if the person has a mental condition or TBI if the person is brandishing a weapon or behaving in a non-compliant and aggressive manner, their mental health matters not and they are fair game for excessive use of force.
It often comes down to shoot or be shot and you can’t blame a cop for making the first move in a volatile situation. Many officers are shot and killed, or mowed down by suspects vehicles.

In 2015 39 officers were shot down by suspects and killed and 8 were run over and killed in incidents of vehicular assault nationwide. 5 were killed in vehicle pursuit incidents. Many more cops lose their lives than suspects that were shot for non-compliance.

jca's avatar

In the case of the therapist laying on the ground with his hands in the air, next to the autistic guy, I don’t see what threat it was to the police. Also, in Tulsa OK this past week, the guy had hands in the air, back to the police and did not have a weapon, and still was shot dead. There was another one, maybe a year ago, the guy was stopped for a traffic stop (speeding?) and the cop chased him and shot him in the back, and I think he killed him. Luckily we have video footage of these shootings as proof of what happened. In these three particular cases, I don’t see what threat there was to the police. In the Tulsa one, four or five cops with weapons pointed at the guy, they tazed him and then still felt a need to kill him.

Coloma's avatar

@jca I agree, there are unjustified shootings and the fear factor is running high, it’s a kill or be killed, split second, decision making process, one I would never want to be involved in.
It is also a one bad apple spoils the barrel thing. One bad cop spoils it for others and creates even more hate and fear mongering.

zenvelo's avatar

@Coloma One big problem to exacerbate the situation is “the blue line.” Cops won’t criticize or call out the truth on other cops. When a cop justifies a killing by another cop, even when it is a blatant killing, the public loses trust.

We have had two overwhelmingly public killings in the last week. In one, the Tulsa PD has arrested the cop. In the other, the ranks closed and the public is criticized for questioning the CMPD. Which one has caused unrest?

Here in the Bay Area, the SF Police Officer’s Association has been running editorial ads on radio, critical of anyone who is not a cop that questions police. They even said “only trained police are qualified, anyone else has no expertise.”

Coloma's avatar

@zenvelo Yes, I can see how that may be true in some instances and it is just a very sad and volatile situation all around. I absolutely agree that those cops that are involved in unjustified shootings need to be swiftly punished and removed from the line of duty but I also think that we cannot always be quick on the draw pun intended to judge a situation when we are not the ones that were called on to make that split second decision to open fire. I can’t imagine being faced with having to make a life or death decision in a few seconds. Again, I totally agree that some of these incidents warrant major investigations but I also firmly believe that if a suspect is given numerous opportunity to comply and they willfully refuse they have dug their own grave so to speak.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

One thing that is very evident in these cases, is that your nations police forces need NO must have better training on how to deal with these types of cases, to come in with guns blazing is just going to turn the country against them.
Because right now they are coming across to the rest of the world as storm troopers, shoot first and clean up the mess later.
Rather than peace officers sworn to protect the public and up hold the law.
I get the fact that being a cop is a hard job, and you are put in harms way a lot but to keep shooting unarmed people because you thought your life was in jeopardy , I mean come on when 3 or more of your fellow officers have their weapons drawn and ready who’s life is really in danger?

Cruiser's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 IMHO the only reason you and others see these situations as cops being storm troopers….bang bang bang…person is dead is because that is the only narrative the mass media is choosing to portray.

Mr. Scott is dead because he was shot by a cop and by the media’s account he was just blown away with little regard for his life on the cops behalf. Yet the real story that has come out and again the media is choosing to not give the same wall to wall coverage is Mr. Scott did in fact have a gun…Mr. Scott also ignored many repeated commands to drop this weapon and we know what happened next. Yes there was a gun with his fingerprints, blood and DNA on it but many days later those facts are not heralded in the news. It’s too bad as the cops did the job they are there to do and yet the media and you choose to paint them as heartless, bloodthirsty killers.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Cruiser then shouldn’t it be up to the police to make it very public that Mr Scott as you put was indeed armed and very much going to use it if they didn’t act first type thing?

And that still doesn’t explain why the cop shot that therapist who was on the ground with his hands in the air.
And if you have been reading I am saying the police do a very hard job with the majority of them being hard working honest people, and that still doesn’t explain the other NOT Mr Scotts that were unarmed and still shot by police.
I am defending them but it still doesn’t get ,that THE POLICE need better training on how to deal with mentally ill or or people suffering from brain injuries, or is it that this extra training would cost money and no one wants to admit that?

Coloma's avatar

Now look at this:

Black cops shooting unarmed white people/children. Why no protesting, because nobody sees this as racist, only a cop doing their job, some well, some not so well.

Black cop kills 6 yr. old white child Nov. 17, 2015

Unarmed white teen gunned down by black cop Nov.27, 2014

Unarmed white man shot by black cop Oct. 3, 2014

Black officer shoots unarmed white man August 20, 2014

So. Carolina black officer shoots unarmed white teen Aug. 10, 2015

Two black cops kill 6 year old white child Nov. 8, 2015

The media sensationalizing of these incidents, which make up less that 4% of all police related shootings are what fuels these crazy protests and riots.
The Washington Post states that the majority of people shot by police fall into one of 3 categories. they were suicidal, mentally troubled or ran when officers told them to halt.
They also had a weapon, something that could be used as a weapon that could cause grave bodily harm or death, including vehicles.

There was a CHP officer that was mowed down by the vehicle of a fleeing robbery/kidnapping suspect in my area a few years back. I do not envy cops their jobs, at all.

@SQUEEKY. All the training in the world doesn’t matter when dealing with a violent or potentially violent suspect, especially one that has a weapon of some sort.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Coloma good to see s sliver of sense left in this place.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Coloma I was never making it a black or white thing, those black cops shooting of children are horrific as well, and really you don’t think with better training a great deal of those victims would still be alive today?
Better training would indeed help, POLICE have a way of escalating a situation when they arrive on scene instead of from time to time a situation needs to be evaluated and see what the best approach is, the police want it over now type thing and someone mentally ill or suffering from a brain injury can’t respond to that.
The police do a job that none of us want, but they do have to do it within the law like everyone else or they do indeed become storm troopers like for now the media is painting them.

Coloma's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 That may be true, at times, but not always.
I was driving through the parking lot of a local park the other day taking my little babysitting girl to the park and a Sheriff ran right in front of me crossing the parking lot. I had to slam on my brakes and looked, obviously, startled. He just laughed and said ” no worries!”

He didn’t abuse his power, yell at me to slow down, or get in my face. Most cops are decent people, that’s my take, and children and teenagers are also perfectly capable of killing, happens all the time.
What I’d like to know is why/how was a TBI person allowed to be driving? Was the guy licensed, was he unlicensed?

If you have a TBI or a serious mental illness, but can still be issued a driver license and are able to understand and obey driving rules well…WTF, then you should be able to obey a cops commands too.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So what is the end take of all this debating ?
If you don’t drop and spread in the split second the cop shouts the order you are then deemed a threat and can be legally shot, and all is right with the world?
And no they aren’t storm troopers just armed citizens scared out of their mind for their life.
Your country is really scaring the shit out of me, and I hope I really don’t have to go down there anytime soon, or like ever.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The RCMP have had their own problems, but I have never felt my life was in danger when pulled over for speeding, or talking to a D.O.T officer and by the way our DOT don’t wear side arms like the us ones.
The RCMP do.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

One winter night I spun out on a bad hill tore my chains up, had to take the truck off the trailers to be able to get at the broken chains, an RCMP came up behind me put his lights on and never got out, I realized he was just making sure others saw my dark trailers sitting there in the lane he stayed until I backed back under them and hooked them up and the lights came back on then went on with a honk on his horn.
I gave him a huge wave of thanks,he could have been a huge prick about my trailers sitting in the lane dark but he knew what was going on and was there as a safety bonus.
COPS have a hard JOB I said that and MOST do a great job.

Coloma's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I don’t have all the answers, obviously, but I do believe most cops are decent human beings and again, of course shooting someone with only one warning is overkill, but, when a suspect fails to comply, numerous times, well…
If you’re going to either A. Chose the criminal path or B. Play cocky, and rebellious games with the cops, well…your choice if you want to play Russian Roulette. Lets not forget that the cops are also privy to a lot of information in many cases that we are not aware of. If a suspect has a known history of violence and crime the fuse is going to be shorter when it comes to defensive action.

If somebody just raped and murdered somebody, the cops have an accurate description of said perpetrator and they are pulled over and fail to comply, it’s fine with me if the cops have to resort to excessive force to apprehend them. Don’t let the media make you paranoid, most of these instances are the exception not the rule. They just get a lot of media attention. So lets just leave it at ” most do a great job” and the few bad apples shouldn’t spoil the barrel of law enforcement.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Coloma you’re right but how about the good apples kicking the bad ones out of the basket instead of protecting them, that alone would go a huge way for public image of the police, that is if one can not justify more training.

Cruiser's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 It is my hope that my comments are not perceived as one sided or confrontational…I am just as confused as the next person and IMO is it too early and unfair to ‘rush to judgement’. Yes it would follow common sense that the cops would be the primary source of any event involving police activity….in this case a man is dead. I then have to defer to and allow the judicial processes that govern loss of life in a police involvement. There is evidence we all demand but it is the very same evidence that is crucial to a fair and balanced adjudication of of this event. What I and you want is separate from what the courts demand and allow…in other words it will (we hope) come out in good time. Until then we can twist and bend this all we want to what end?

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