In view of Trump’s astonishing meeting with Putin, was the Russian decision to facilitate Trump’s election a sound decision?

Putin didn’t win Trump the whitehouse. Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the corruption in the Democratic party did.

Geo politics are hard for me to grasp, so I don’t know why it is beneficial for Putin to own Trump, but what is easier for me to understand, and see, is that Putin for sure has Trump in his pocket.
He is disregarding his own American department of justice that only recently charged twelve Russians with hacking and meddling with the election (”I think the probe is a disaster for our country”), but instead fully believes Putin’s word for it; ”He was incredibly strong and confident in his denial”
To answer your question: looking at Putin’s face I would say yes (from his standpoint).

Answered the wrong Q.

Considering that this meeting showed, just how much the Orangutan is beholden to Putin, absolutely.

Stealing identities of US citizens to post derogatory information about political candidates on social media sites…........500,000 roubles.

Employing hundreds of people to create fictitious personas and for technical and administrative support….... 1,000,000 roubles.

Budget for misinformation activities in the run up to the US elections…....73,000,000 roubles. (per month).

Having a private meeting with a US President who believes me over his own intelligence services ……….............Priceless.

And consider the answers that Putin gave to questions regarding russian interference and the recent arrest of 12 russian agents: ‘that is for the courts to decide.’
And regarding having compromising material on the Orangutan: ‘well, I personally did not even know he was in russia.’
Affirmations in all but name.
“Strong and confident in his denial”.
Something only true of the ape.
But hey, he loooooves them dictators.

Putin hasn’t gotten what he wants yet. I’m sure he’s pleased. But he didn’t pull all of those strings for pictures, and propaganda. I think Putin will make a move on targets in Eastern Europe. Now would be a great time to invest in companies that make Russian flags. They may eventually stretch from the Pacific, to the Mediterranean….

Putin wanted to sow discord, and weaken our unity and belief in the electoral process. I don’t think the win was expected and he’s still astounded himself what we did to ourselves with such little effort on his part.

Before the election, both Putin and Trump wanted the EU and NATO broken. They’re working towards a shared goal.

Blah, blah, blah…boring!!
Oh, I liked the bit when Put-it-in gave Trumpet a World Cup ball, the fucker threw at his missus.

For Russia it was…for the US, I’m not so sure!!!

”He was incredibly strong and confident in his denial”

So was my ex when I caught him in my bed with his girlfriend. The harder they protest…the guiltier they are!!!

How come none of our loyal right wingers are here defending ole orange hair?

^^^ There is NOTHING to defend!!!

I almost feel bad for them, but this sort of thing was more or less inevitable. The man simply doesn’t know what he’s doing. Those hoping this basic truth might be ignored now must face the sobering truth.

I know, but they are so great at deflecting everything just wonder how they will spin this and blame Obama.
I only watched part of this summit and it was making me sick, the way Trump was acting, if this doesn’t do a good job at winning a ton of seats for the dems come November,then you might as well start learning Russian.

The conservatives will have to be inundated with bullshit from their media for a few days. Then we’ll hear from them. It’s a pretty predictable cycle. Trump does something stupid, and/or immoral. Conservative media spins it, or just plain lies. Conservative radio repeats it over and over again, until it’s perceived as fact. Then we’ll get our conservative friends regurgitating the propaganda…

I am, again, proud of McCain particularly. If anyone here hasn’t read his thoughts on the summit, I highly recommend it. A few Republicans have voiced strong opposition to Trump’s behavior.

I have to admit. Even the most conspiracy theory minded on the left, couldn’t have predicted that Trump would have so publicly displayed his now blindingly obvious subservience to Putin… I will wait with great anticipation to see how the Trumpers can possibly excuse his actions, or find a way to make it about Hillary, and/or Obama.

There seems to be a consensus here. Can someone explain in detail what the objection to the Trump/Putin meeting is? What would you have preferred to see?

I think the objection is more in the outcome of the meeting.
There seems to be consensus there.

^ What is the outcome of the meeting, and what in particular is the consensus here? What outcome would have been preferred?

With apologies to Mr. Springfield

PUTIN’S BITCH

Putin is a friend, yeah
For years been a good friend of mine
But lately something’s changed that ain’t hard to define
Putin’s got me by the short hairs and gonna get his money’s worth.

And he’s watching me with those spies
And he’s gonna release the tapes, I just know it
Yeah ‘n’ he’s holding my balls tight, Oh no, it isn’t right

You know
I wish I wasn’t Putin’s bitch
I wish I wasn’t Putin’s bitch
But how can I deny a man like that?

I play along with the charade
There doesn’t seem to be a reason to change
You know, I feel so lucky that he bought my election
I wanna tell him that I love him,
and he gives me an erection.

‘Cause he’s watching me with those spies
And he’s gonna release the tapes, I just know it
Yeah ‘n’ he’s holding my balls tight, Oh no, it isn’t right

You know
I’m glad that I am Putin’s bitch
I’m glad that I am Putin’s bitch
How can I deny a mans man like that?

Like Putin’s bitch
I kinda like being Putin’s bitch
Where can I find a strongman
Where can I find a master like that?

And I’m looking out for myself all the time
Wondering what Meuller’s got on me
I’m in denial, I’ve been claimin’ that they’re lyin’
Calling it a witch hunt ‘why won’t they let me be?

Tell me, how can you not love a master like that?

You know, I’m glad that I am Putin’s bitch
I wish that he would use a switch
I wanna be Putin’s bitch
Why won’t he just abuse me like that
Like refugees
Like I did with the refugees
I am, I am Putin’s bitch.

@notnotnotnot . I recommend that you watch, at least some excerpts from the summit. What’s upsetting? Seriously?

This was Trump’s chance, to at least show that he isn’t Putin’s bitch. Trump just spent the past couple weeks being “tough,” with our allies. New indictments rolled out days before the summit. Time for tough.

If Trump were true to his character, he would have blasted Putin. But he sold out his country, and threw our nation’s intelligence community under the bus publicly, whilst seemingly endorsing one of the world’s worst people (Putin.) And yes. This is yet another tyrannical dictator that Trump is blowing. No typo. “Blowing.”

Let’s recap. Trump intentionally harmed the US’s relationship between many of it’s closest allies. He is seemingly trying to destroy NATO. He has mentioned removing US troops in Germany. He is interested in reducing US sanctions on Russia and Russian oligarchs. He is helping to destabilize Europe, and is stirring the refugee crisis there. He publicly called the EU a “foe.”....

The objection @notnotnotnot was a few things,one Trump said he no real agenda with this meeting,really??
Meaning he couldn’t say what the agenda was.
He insisted on being alone with him, Putin even supplied the interpreter ,wow how nice of him.
That alone stinks worse than Monica’s dress.

Like I said, check out what McCain said. Good stuff, from Trump’s own party….

@MrGrimm888: “This was Trump’s chance, to at least show that he isn’t Putin’s bitch.”

What actions/words were you looking for here?

@MrGrimm888: “Time for tough.”

Be specific.

@MrGrimm888: “If Trump were true to his character, he would have blasted Putin.”

Are you looking for consistency in the Trump character? Is this desirable?

@MrGrimm888: “But he sold out his country, and threw our nation’s intelligence community under the bus publicly, whilst seemingly endorsing one of the world’s worst people (Putin.) And yes. This is yet another tyrannical dictator that Trump is blowing. No typo. “Blowing.””

Appeals to homophobia aside, are we suggesting that aligning with the US intelligence community is a good thing? Are we taking offence on behalf of the the intelligence community now?

How upset are you when presidents are friendly with the tyrannical dictators of other countries? What specifically is the behavior you desire among the leaders of two heavily armed and nuclear nations? Are you calling for a more hostile relationship here?

I get a strong feeling that Trump and Putin had a prior deal? Possibly if Russians interfere with the Elections process to get Trump in as President then Trump may had promised something in return? And that is why it was not a good idea to let them talk in private to collude on anything else or to cover up there trail.

Rather than play dumb in order to clog the conversation, go read what even Republicans object to about the meeting. Here’s one source, feel free to google more. You’re welcome.

Republicans blast Trump meeting with Putin as ‘shameful’ and ‘sign of weakness’

@notnotnotnot We are taking offense AT Trump maligning our own government intelligence agency and purporting to have more faith in Putin, someone who has repeatedly shown himself to be unreliable. But this is more of the same from Trump, someone who has also shown himself repeatedly to be unreliable. And, we are not taking offense FOR the intelligence community, they have independently expressed their own outrage.

@Call_Me_Jay: “Rather than play dumb in order to clog the conversation”

I’m not playing dumb. I don’t want the Republican line on this. I want to talk to regular people who might not usually consider themselves right-wing, but are taking a particular position re: Russia.

Russia is an adversary. It needs to be treated warily. I am not advocating not speaking or dealing with them, just that, in the words of Reagan, you need to trust, but verify. This is not the attitude Trump has adopted, his is more of a fawning sycophant, a Putin wannabe, a Trumputin if you like.
This meeting was for nothing but a PR stunt. And not having someone, anyone,else in the room besides Trump, Putin and Putin translators leave the situation ripe for abuse and speculation regarding the actual discussion.
We know Trump is no negotiator, we know nothing substantial came out of the meeting, at least nothing that can be shared outside Putin’s inner circle.
It was very reminiscent of his PR stunt with North Korea,

As Shakespeare famously wrote (and this is amazingly apropos for Trump): “This life, which had been the tomb of his virtue and of his honour, is but a walking shadow; a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more: it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.”

But, @notnotnotnot, what “regular people”? You have made it clear that you think that all of us here that consider ourselves left, and/or progressive, are really right wing because we don’t consider your descriptors of “left”and “progressive” to be absolute.

Wouldn’t it be more clear if you were to tell us what you actually think on the topic, rather than waiting for us to make gross political gaffes that you can then correct?

“Yes! Yes! Tell us what to think and say Lord!”

God, I sound like a Trump supporter

I agree with @gorillapaws. Putin wanted Trump to win and the Russians did interfere in the election, but that’s not why Trump won. A major part of it was the incompetence of the Democrats and this is just an excuse for the Democrats to change nothing and blame everything on a foreign power. We’ll see if they’ve learned anything in 2020.

@rojo – Of course it’s a publicity stunt. I agree. But what how does “treated warily” translate into what you would have wanted to happen? Would you have wanted the meeting to happen at all? Or require certain people to be there? Would that have been sufficient? In what way does this work into Trump being Putin’s “bitch”?

Ah, well, that is where the secretive nature of the meeting, on top of his almost drooling adoration of Putin, inspires thoughts of conspiracy, collusion and capitulation isn’t it @notnotnotnot ?

My personal opinion, this was an unnecessary meeting in the first place and did not need to happen and certainly should have been cancelled once the indictments of the 12 GRU agents came out.

@notnotnotnot .

I think I understand what you are getting at. But it’s not that way.

I used to be vehemently opposed to any type of military confrontation with Russia. I still am. Unless Russia swings first, we should hold the high ground.

Trump. “Not Putin’s bitch.” “What actions, words were you looking for here?”

Trump has been extremely aggressive, with our allies.

He has offered public respect, and admiration for two of the world’s worst people. Putin, and Kim. And has displayed himself as the vastly inferior leader, in both relationships. Andreally all diplomatic relationships….

His supporters claim they back Trump against our allies. But like Trump, they are afraid of Putin, and will not challenge a foe of similar capabilities to our own.

The conservatives, and the GOP, spent years actually slandering Obama, and making up crazy deathcamp/take yur guns BS.

Now…..

There’s actually a REAL threat to America! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where the Hell are all these conservatives calling for national security, and the appearance of power in the face of our enemies?

Time to prove that you love your country, more than Trump.

WAKE UP!!!!!!!!

This is getting to the point where people excuse a family member’s behavior, because of denial. But that family member is dangerous, and manipulative. And will take down many people trying to save him…......

I think Putin has something on Trump. The problem is, Trump is too stupid to fake that he’s Putin’s bitch.

What should Trump/NO, what should a POTUS done? He should have called off the summit, and first tried to handle this behind closed doors.

Trump has shown “bravery” in the face of countries less militarily advanced as us, and showed subservience, to any country remotely possibly of hurting us (NK, Russia.)

Had Obama done the same thing during his time in office, we would have had to ripped the repcons off the ceiling!!!

Oh my god! Can you imagine Obama looking so “feckless?!”...

That’s the word the GOP loved. Now their guy is FAR worse than feckless. Trump gave up military exercises to Kim for nothing in exchange, and was all but a lapdog to Putin ON THE WORLD STAGE! !!!!!!!!

Don’t worry the Rep/cons will spin it and still blame Obama for all of it.
I was just disgusted the way Trump acted with Putin.
He is one strange dude shit all over your allies and cuddle your foes, I will never figure out rep/cons.

Thanks, @MrGrimm888.

Are you at all concerned that the country has taken an apparent turn towards patriotism, jingoism, pro-military, pro-intelligence community in service of opposing Trump? There are endless reasons to oppose Trump and the Republican party. But there is a portion of the country that seemed prepared to challenge Trump on Russia. And in order to do so, they have aligned themselves with institutions and adopted positions that are concerning.

This feels like the “freedom fries” days of the jingoistic public fervor that led to the invasion of Iraq.

The Russian hacking conspiracy is not on my radar because from what I have seen, it’s a completely within the realm of what governments (including the US) do all the time. And the implications of sending Podesta phishing emails doesn’t appear to have been consequential in any electoral sense. But if I were to even grant – for sake of argument – that the most wild of accusations were true and that it that it had huge effects, I would still feel quite uncomfortable with the current course of the marriage of neoconservatives, liberals, intelligence state, and calls for renewed patriotism. We know where that leads.

Trump and Putin are horrible people with really bad politics. But they are the leaders that we have right now. Any calls for increasing the tension between these two countries, who have the ability to destroy human life on this planet, seems irresponsible at best. The last people I want to see cheering alongside the pro-war crowd are decent people who would have cringed at such behavior a couple of years ago (think Obama’s “80’s foreign policy” zinger towards Romney).

@notnotnotnot The enemy of my enemy is my friend…. Until he is not.

Are you at all concerned that the country has taken an apparent turn towards patriotism, jingoism, pro-military, pro-intelligence community in service of opposing Trump?

This feels like the “freedom fries” days of the jingoistic public fervor that led to the invasion of Iraq.

Your understanding is 180 degrees wrong.

The freedom fries nonsense was from right wingers exclusively. It was Republicans adopting and parroting the ever-changing and obviously sketchy war justifications from their president and shouting down any dissent. And they followed him right over a cliff, taking all of us with them.

Which is exactly what we get from Trump cultists. He contradicts himself day to day and even within a single appearance.

In 2003 people paying attention knew the Iraq war was a bad idea being sold with lies. Colin Powell was mocked for his disgraceful UN speech, and the largest demonstrations in Earth’s history took place in opposition to what Republicans were rushing the US into.

The intelligence agencies weren’t mistaken in 2002–2003, the administration lied about their findings. The intelligence agencies aren’t mistaken today, the administration is undermining them.

There is no militaristic push from the left, no calls for war against Russia, no jingoism. Suggesting so is disingenuous,

There is no question about Russian meddling in the 2016 election. It was known as it was happening. The latest Mueller indictments spell it out and name names. Even Trump was forced to admit it (again) despite his denial the day before.

Your fake concern and dishonest spin is noted.

@Call_Me_Jay: “In 2003 people paying attention knew the Iraq war was a bad idea being sold with lies. Colin Powell was mocked for his disgraceful UN speech, and the largest demonstrations in Earth’s history took place in opposition to what Republicans were rushing the US into.”

Recall, however, that a large majority of the country was in a lather about 9/11 and were supportive of the invasion of Iraq. Opposition didn’t hit a majority until a couple of years later.
See here and here. It was a scary time, because it wasn’t just our conservative uncles who wanted blood.

@Call_Me_Jay: “There is no militaristic push from the left, no calls for war against Russia, no jingoism. Suggesting so is disingenuous,”

That is refreshing to hear. I’ll take your word for it. Maybe I’m wrong. The anger and focus on this thread seemed to suggest something else, so I’ll rest easier knowing that war against Russia is not something you would like to see.

Washington Post – Enter the Concern Troll

“...I’m with you,” the concern troll says. “But surely you must see how this looks to people. Not me, of course. But other people. They might think horrible things of you. People might think you were self-centered, fat, slow, rude. Not me, of course. I’m with you. I have your best interests at heart. That’s why I want to warn you. I, you see, know how this ought to be done.”

There is some Faceless Someone out there who is absolutely merciless. That Faceless Someone is saying or might say Terrible, Awful Things.

The concern troll does not agree, of course. But the concern troll wants to make sure you know.

Who might say these things, you ask?

Well, you know. People…

@notnotnotnot . That’s correct. I am unaware of liberals calling for war. But the Putin summit was going to be a big tell for the administration. It was essentially a trap for Trump. He should have called it off, and blamed recent indictments.
Instead, he made the Russian conspiracy theories look VERY real. Sadly, there may never be a smoking gun to throw Trump in prison. But it’s pretty obvious that something is going on…

@MrGrimm888: “But it’s pretty obvious that something is going on..”

Yeah – he (and the Republican party) are making life hell for anyone who isn’t white and rich. He’s dooming my kids and your’s to unbearable suffering for decades to come, and he’s part of a party that is literally trying to destroy the planet. Oh, and he’s a white nationalist piece of shit.

All of that is, and has always been, out in the open, and done with plenty of cooperation. The enemy is within.

And the Red necks still love him, just hopefully a lot less red necks.
But ya never know conservative red necks aint to big in the smarts department one of the biggest reason ole orange hair loves em.

I blame the US education system but just to clarify for Trump supporters:

Fear is not Respect
Authoritarianism is not Democracy
Bullying is not leading,
First strike is not strength,
Promising is not producing.
Insulting is not rhetoric or reason.
Repetition is not proof.

NICE ANSWER^^^^^^^ and oh how true, now where are those email servers?

Sound decision? Got his money’s worth? Got the “simple flick of his finger’s” worth more likely.

Putin deserves the Best Spy of the Millennia Award for how he played this, elevating himself and his Russian dictatorial way by having trump be his willing stooge.

Trump actually thinks Putin respects him and not Obama nor Clinton. He thinks when Putin detests somebody it’s about respect. It’s fear.

Putin feared a Clinton presidency that’s why he picked the weakest anti-Russian candidate who would be the perfect Russian mini-me. Clueless, shameless, racist, a coward, gullible, vain and has delusions of being a “strongman.”

Uh yeah totally, but still where are those email servers??^^
The Russian investigation is a witch hunt,poor ole orange hair said the Russians didn’t interfere and that’s good enough for him, regardless what his own agencies told him that they did.