Social Question

JLeslie's avatar

Can I vent about Mike Bloomberg being a Republican?

Asked by JLeslie (58786points) 1 month ago from iPhone

This is total bullshit that the media, even the left leaning media, is picking up on this idea that Bloomberg isn’t really a Democrat and he was a Republican not long ago.

He became a Republican, because when he decided to run for Mayor, New Yorkers knew he was liberal on many things, it was just a political move. He did not lie, his fiscal policies are fairly conservative. He leans conservative on K-12 education, which he had to adjust his initial ideas once in office, he has been a Democrat his entire adulthood except about 6 years? I’d have to check the exact amount of years.

Bloomberg, like many New Yorkers, and many people for that matter, was socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Just like Bill Clinton! Plenty of Democrats are like this.

That MSNBC carries this narrative forward, which I believe is either planted by the Republicans, a foreign country, or Bernie supporters (I’m NOT accusing Bernie personally) is so frustrating.

Anyone who is thinking the media is in cahoots with candidates like Hillary think again, because they are readily trying to bring down Bloomberg from what I can tell. WTH?!

I am not pushing Bloomberg for president, I’m just annoyed at the one-sided information put out there by people who call themselves journalists.

Please discuss.

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22 Answers

Jonsblond's avatar

Welcome to the media hate. I’m surprised you are just noticing.

rebbel's avatar

Elections are like a big ole X-Factor show, I feel.
Sides or political affiliation don’t seem to matter.
It’s a song contest, and tweets and other outings are the songs.

JLeslie's avatar

@Jonsblond Not new. I’ve been complaining about media for years, especially the change on MSNBC is very frustrating to me. Honestly, I think the media is pushing Bernie lately, so it might help your favorite.

hmmmmmm's avatar

MSNBC is crap, but you’re going to have difficulty defending Bloomberg from awful record. He’s a horrible person that is responsible for immeasurable suffering. If he were the Democratic nominee, not only would people not vote for him, there are many people who would campaign against him who had been prepared to vote Democrat.

JLeslie's avatar

@hmmmmmm Liberal NYC voted for him 3 times. You and your circle might campaign against him if he’s the nominee, go ahead, help Trump in again.

I think Bloomberg has an uphill battle to be the nominee, so you probably won’t have to worry about it, but how you can want Trump over Bloomberg is beyond me.

Bloomberg is pro-choice (always has been) has systematically tried to help minorities, is a religious minority, is in favor of gun control, stood up for the Muslims who wanted to build a rec/mosque near the tower site post 9/11, is concerned about the public health, supports gay marriage, supports efforts to slow climate change, the list goes on and on. My bet is if you look back at all the candidates they’ve done things that people might call prejudiced or racist, unfortunate but true. Bernie has been accused of being sexist, Klobuchar of being demeaning and racist, Buttigieg of being racist, it’s ridiculous at this point.

I’m not pushing Bloomberg, I’m undecided, but the propaganda bullshit in the media is incredibly frustrating, and that people don’t mind it when it suits their own desires is equally as frustrating.

hmmmmmm's avatar

^ Lots of confusion here. I’m not a liberal, have major problems with liberals, wasn’t the one who gave us Trump (see: HRC and liberals), etc. Additionally, Bloomberg’s attempt to purchase the nomination isn’t necessarily to win it – it’s a relatively-cheap investment in stopping the left.

I don’t do corporate media, but if there is some particular “propaganda bullshit” that you feel needs to be corrected on Bloomberg, go ahead and make those corrections. And while you’re at it, make sure you include your thoughts on stop-and-frisk, surveillance of Muslims, support for invasion of Iraq, etc.

Look – it’s your party – not mine. If you’re “not pushing Bloomberg”, you’re certainly not doing your part to stop him. This guy is arguably far worse than Clinton, and you know how that turned out. If you don’t want to back the current front-runner, fine. But you know what the outcome will be.

hmmmmmm's avatar

If being a Democrat means being a billionaire Republican who donates millions to Republican candidates in order to fight against unions and working people, you might want to figure out what that Democratic party is really about.

If your Democrat enthusiastically endorses GW Bush at 2004 RNC, you might want to look closer at what a Democrat means.

And while I dislike Trevor Noah, this simple breakdown of stop and frisk for the masses isn’t bad.

JLeslie's avatar

I’m not trying to stop anyone. Let the voters vote.

@hmmmmmm I just realized you aren’t going to like any candidate in America, because you want America to be completely different than it is and always has been. My argument isn’t with you, I think maybe you live in the wrong country if you do live in America.

I don’t know how you identify, but the choices are going to be the Democrat who gets the nomination and Trump. That’s the reality.

Your link about Bloomberg and Muslims supports what I said.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@JLeslie: “I just realized you aren’t going to like any candidate in America,”

I would gladly vote for Sanders. In fact I will be voting for him.

@JLeslie: “because you want America to be completely different than it is and always has been.”

You don’t?

@JLeslie: “I think maybe you live in the wrong country if you do live in America.”

Is that a blanket statement for those who wish to change things (“go live somewhere else”)?

@JLeslie: “I don’t know how you identify, but the choices are going to be the Democrat who gets the nomination and Trump. That’s the reality.”

It sure is. So, the choice is yours to make now in the primary. Don’t wait until your party has decided to go with a right-winger to run against Trump and then wonder why Trump is re-elected.

gorillapaws's avatar

Sorry but Bloomberg is basically a Republican. I’m not fooled by the guy switching to the Democratic party at the end of 2018. Everyone that’s pissed about Kavanaugh and impeachment can send a thank-you to Bloomberg for supporting plenty of Republican senators with large campaign donations.

The guy is a total monster. I’m happy to get into specifics if you’d like. Trump will mop the floor with him BTW, and I’m sure-as-hell not going to vote for him.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws, he changed to Republican to run for mayor, he has always been a Democrat otherwise. He absolutely is in line with Republicans on some things, but not on many others. He’s a northeastern Democrat, which is almost the same as being a Northeastern Republican.

@hmmmmmm I’ll be voting don’t worry. I already have my flight booked to make sure I’m back in time. It sounds to me like you won’t be voting if it’s not Bernie. You are the one who might not be voting, but me.

I think change is fine. We must evolve as a country, but I like to be cautious.

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie I’m pretty convinced that his entire motivation is to sabotage Bernie—in order to prevent a wealth tax. His goal is to siphon enough votes to force a brokered convention where he can make a deal with other establishment figures to deny Bernie the nomination.

”...he has always been a Democrat otherwise…”

On what issues?

He supported George Fucking Bush, the war in Iraq, racist policies, cutting Social Security and Medicare, made disgusting comments to a female employee (”kill it”). He opposed Obama, minimum wage increases, etc. How is he in any way a Democrat?

I think it’s the “moderates” that are the ones who are responsible for taking this country to the brink of becoming a radical-right totalitarian regime. Bernie is basically an FDR Democrat. The DNC has drifted so far to the right that dickheads like Bloomberg are considered “moderate” and Bernie is considered a “radical.” When people advocate for actual pro-worker policies, we’re told that we’re in the wrong country. WTF?

Jonsblond's avatar

Bloomberg won’t do well with black voters. You might want to read this article: https://thenorthstar.com/king-voting-for-mike-bloomberg-is-the-line-i-just-cant-cross/

As for Sanders and the media, the media isn’t pushing Sanders, they are just now finally recognizing him as a viable candidate.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws Like I said pro-choice, pro gun control, pro gay marriage, pro ERA, trying creative ways to fix K-12 (I don’t know how effective his attempts were in NYC re schools) I actually care about these civil rights more than more money in my pocket. Granted, I’m not poor, but republicans generally are not “liberal” on the things I named.

Plus, NYC is quite liberal with Medicaid and Medicaid disability compared to most states, and that is his point of reference. My aunt was able to give my sister and I $100k of her money and collect Medicaid disability and a small amount of food stamps. We used the money to help pay her bills. Medicaid knew, it was all very transparent and following the law. Most states you have to spend almost every penny of your savings and be in a horrible precarious position to start getting help.

I advocate for workers. I want to raise minimum wage, I want socialized medicine, I want a shorter work week, I want earlier retirement.

@Jonsblond That’s probably partly why he won’t win the nomination. If he wins, like I’ve said before, the black vote is the most significant in the Deep South states, where the electoral vote will go to Trump anyway. MD might be up for grabs, and there the black vote could really matter, maybe a couple of more states. Possibly, African Americans hate Trump enough that they will VOTE for whoever gets the nomination. Bloomberg’s history with black peoples is actually mixed. He has a lot of black people in significant positions speaking for Bloomberg out in the media right now. I think Bernie, Klobuchar, and Buttigieg all have a better chance at winning the nomination than Bloomberg. I don’t even think Bloomberg will be very upset if he sees he’s losing, he’ll drop out, and he will throw money behind any Democrat to beat Trump.

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie
1. Pro-choice—NO—Telling an employee to “kill it” is not pro-choice. He has a pretty disgusting record with regards to women in the workplace

2. Pro-gun control—YES—I’ll give him that one. He’s moderate on guns.

3. Pro gay marriage—MIXED—He originally fought against it in 2005. He fairly recently said some pretty contemptuous things about trans people.

4. Pro-ERA—NO—Sorry, but Bloomberg doesn’t deserve credit for being a champion of equality. He has a well-documented record of sexist, racist and anti-muslim comments/policies. That’s like saying Trump is pro-women because he sponsors the Miss America Pageant and tips well at strip clubs.

5. K-12—NO—Privatization of public school is a Republican approach, just ask Betsy DeVos.

So you’ve got a guy who’s a Republican that’s moderate on gun control and has a mixed record on gay marriage. In nearly every other dimension, he’s a bigoted conservative with some pretty heinous attitudes towards women.

We shall see if he really does put his money behind Bernie (I’m skeptical).

hmmmmmm's avatar

@JLeslie: “Bloomberg’s history with black peoples is actually mixed. He has a lot of black people in significant positions speaking for Bloomberg out in the media right now.”

Translation? = “Bloomberg might have criminalized and terrorized the black and latinx population in NYC for years, but he has a few people like Stacey “CAP” Abrams, who just happens to have been the recipient of $5 million from Bloomberg, saying nice things about him.”

Yeah, real “mixed”.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws I read up more on Bloomberg K-12 and it seems you are right about privatizing, which I am against. I need to read more, it looks like he approved a lot of charter schools, so maybe they are still actually public, but anyway, that is a concern for me. I am a little to the right regarding some things in education, like I question having tenure K-12 and some other pay related things for teachers, but as far as vouchers and privatizing I’m against both.

Regarding Muslims, I call bullshit. He was accused of unwarranted surveillance, but then that was all dismissed from what I understand. He absolutely stood up for Muslims who wanted to open the Mosque near the sight of the trade center, and he has always talked positively about the diversity in NYC and America. Straight from his mouth, not some news report. Maybe I’m projecting, but I truly believe he understands what it’s like to be a religious minority and have stereotypes thrust upon you—us.

Most Jews over the age of 60 have a keen understanding of bigotry and oppression. Even if they didn’t experience much of it, they were raised in a time where they had many many close friends or close relatives who experienced pogroms or the holocaust, and it was drilled into us it can happen anywhere. That’s why so many Jewish lawyers from the north fought for civil rights in America. Of course not all Jews are the same, but most Jewish people of that generation get it.

I know people think us Jews are white and don’t understand, but we grow up being told and knowing how the world can be crap and you can wind up enslaved or dead just for existing.

Your link about transgender issues, I read it that Bloomberg gets it, but he thinks the Midwest doesn’t.

I couldn’t read the workplace link.

@hmmmmmm He has many more black people and politicians speaking for him than Abrams.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@JLeslie: “He has many more black people and politicians speaking for him than Abrams.”

Let me rephrase this so that I’m clear. Bloomberg criminalized and terrorized black and latinx population in NYC for years. On the other hand, a handful of establishment black Democrats are speaking up for him.

therefore…

@JLeslie: “Bloomberg’s history with black peoples is actually mixed.”

Please elaborate. Make that connection and explain how these two are connected and what “mixed” means in this context.

(For someone who supposedly isn’t supporting this monster, you seem to be doing just that.)

JLeslie's avatar

You know what, forget it. I’m just discussing, not supporting him. I’m so fucking sick of fluther not being able to have a discussion about a political candidate without being accused of being accused of being a Republican, Trump supporter, blah blah blah. Giving credit to a politician for doing something good, doesn’t mean a person supports everything they do. Just like so many Republicans right now seem unable to say the economy began to change and improve immensely under Obama, because I guess they can’t give one ounce of credit to Obama about anything, or their peers accuse them of being disloyal.

I just don’t have the stamina for this today. Think what you want.

Let African Americans decide, from what I understand Bloomberg’s black support is growing.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@JLeslie: “I’m so fucking sick of fluther not being able to have a discussion about a political candidate without being accused of being accused of being a Republican.”

I never accused you of being a Republican. Recall the intent of your post here, and who we were discussing. I think it’s fair to say that the question has been answered, despite your strange pushback. But if we’re done, fair enough.

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie “Regarding Muslims, I call bullshit. He was accused of unwarranted surveillance, but then that was all dismissed from what I understand.”

I’m more concerned with his disgusting support of war crimes against Palestinian children and justification for Israel not being obligated to obey international law. He claims that Israel doesn’t need to limit their military to a proportional response, and that it’s fine to bomb schools and hospitals if there are enemy combatants there too. I don’t think it’s possible to have this view and not be racist.

To be fair with regards to your original question. You have an incredibly conservative Republican Billionaire (with a few spots of moderation on guns, gay marriage, etc.) who only recently said he was a Democrat and is trying to buy the election. How are we supposed to react?

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws He didn’t recently say it. He was a Democrat his entire life, except when he ran for mayor. He switched to run for mayor. If memory serves, he became a Republican because he felt he could win that nomination, it had to do with who was running, I could research it. Granted, he has aligned with the republicans on many issues previously, but that’s because he’s not a lock step Democrat. In my opinion he’s really an Independent. I will also say, I have said it before, that he will be business friendly. Of all of the Democrats, if one wins the presidency, people like Trump will prefer Bloomberg wins, I absolutely concede that point.

Regarding the Palestinians that is an incredibly complicated and difficult topic. In my own opinion I understand why Israel responds sometimes so harshly to attacks, and I also don’t agree with the settlements going beyond the original borders, and also Israel has tried to make peace in the past, and also Hamas wants to wipe Israel off the map. There is a huge land mass of Arab lands, and little Israel, and Israel can’t live in peace. Or, can they? I am empathetic to the Palestinians who have been there for generations and the UN making a decision to draw borders. I have my own problems with what the UN did many years ago, but it’s done. Should the Israelis all move to another part of the world? It’s a Q for another time. I care about politicians wanting peace between Israel and the Palestinians, but I honestly don’t get into the knitty gritty, because I don’t think America can broker anything between them anymore anyway. Plenty of Democrats are extremely supportive of Israel. I support Israel, but am more moderate in my stance than many people.

I think the problem is, we define the Democratic Party differently, and I do think you look through a lens of wanting to dislike any other candidate besides your top pick. I still say if you cherry picked you can find racist things said and done by all of the candidates, and you and I even interpret things very differently when we hear the same sentences.

I try to see the whole picture of all of the candidates good and bad, and I’m probably more forgiving than most. In the end I only vote for one, but I might have to live with the person I didn’t vote for so I want to know the good and the bad both parties. Like with Romney, if he had won I wasn’t going to be traumatized as far as Republicans go, when Bush won I was pretty traumatized.

I’m fine with all the Democrats honestly, whichever one gets the nomination will get my vote. My primary is in a month I think, let’s see who is left at that point for me to vote for.

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