General Question

ragingloli's avatar

What is your opinion on Trump sabotaging the USPS in an effort to commit election fraud by slowing down mail delivery?

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32 Answers

si3tech's avatar

Speak for our own country! Trump does not sabotage the USPS. What he does is to the best of his ability ensure safe and accurate voting by absentee ballots. Every registered voter shall request from their registrar an absentee ballot be sent to them. That is the only way to prevent people from voting in multiple states. Dead people are not entitled to vote. Pets no longer able to vote, Registered voters, citizens of the USA, only are entitled to vote.

ragingloli's avatar

“The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”

JLeslie's avatar

Trump is doing his usual thing where he knows a lot of Republicans for YEARS, since way way before Trump, have been trying to get rid of the USPS, and they love the idea so they get all excited and riled up that their president is saying similar. Add to that Republicans for YEARS have been complaining mail-in voting is fraught with fraud, and there is another thing Trump can say and get his base all happy. Trump did not come up with these two talking points, they are all points that Trump has seized on, like he did with immigration, hating Hillary, and so on.

Both the left and the right seem to be floating and idea that there will be an unmanageable burden on the post office. Bullshit! First of all, many people just drop their ballot off at a polling place. I will be doing just that. I figure dropping it off where I vote, or dropping it where I mail letters is the basically the same for me. I can drop it off any time early voting is open. Mail-in ballots are mailed out 6 weeks ahead of the election, so there is a full month that people are dropping the ballots in the mail, it is well spread out. If USPS can handle income tax time everywhere, which normally has mail crossing state line, it can handle mail-in ballots that are mostly mailed from within the county limits. If they will need more people working then hire them. In my mailbox I have less mail than 5 years ago, not more.

As far as fraud, remember when Democrats were reporting that Ivanka Trump was registered in two states? That was probably true, I have been registered in two states more than once. Could I have voted in both states, obviously that is illegal, and I would never do it, but my guess is I could have done it in person just as easily as mail-in. Actually, in person probably more easily. No red flag if I walk in, but if you have to mail it to my out of state address maybe there is more scrutiny, I don’t know. The big question is, how accurate are the records for current residents?

The Republicans worry about fraud, because they know they have been registered in two states before, and they know people use the system, like being a resident in Florida to avoid taxes AND they get to vote in a swing state. Part of the reason I wanted to stay in Florida when my husband took the job in Tennessee was to keep my tax breaks in Florida and keep my vote here. I mean I would always do it following the law, I have to be in Florida over 6 months a year, and that’s fine. Trump talks about voter fraud to cast doubt.

For a long time now I have been disgusted by the Republicans attacks on our USPS. It is part of American history, it has incredible accuracy. When I was young I knew a lot of people from other countries, and they would tell me ho unreliable their postal systems were. The USPS is something Americans should be proud of. Really pisses me off.

Mind you Trump is saying Florida mail-in is ok. Yeah, because Florida Republican Congressman are coming out and saying they are not concerned about mail-in votes, and basically want Trump to shut the hell up.

@si3tech Most states I think people need to request mail in. My state you can only request for two elections at a time I think, and then you have to do another request.

JLeslie's avatar

Sorry, just a little more. It is completely offensive that Republicans are implying they cannot trust our mailmen and women with voting ballots. We trust them with expensive items, checks, and all sorts of valuable things every day. One thing I don’t like in Florida is our party is on the envelope, I hope we can get that changed.

@si3tech I could have requested a ballot from both states when I was registered in both places. I don’t know if it would have been snagged somehow or not? I doubt it. Unless, they actually check to see if I still have an address in the state. The last time a state contacted me it was three years after I had left the state. Maybe Democrats and Republicans can simply agree we want an accurate election and work on making our system better for cancelling registration when people move. If we had a national election system, rather than by the state, there would be less chance of being registered in two places.

Yellowdog's avatar

Our postal system cannot currently support the overload of mail that would result from mail-in voting. Losses, misdeliveries late deliveries, would be rampant,

Democrats are hoping for this because the possibilities for fraud and lawsuits over elections would likewise flourish and spread unchecked,

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog How does the USPS handle everyone sending in tax returns to the USPS Mid February to mid April? That is across state lines, much more taxing on the mail system. Now, we have more efile, but that is fairly recent. More people use ebilling than 5 years ago so that reduces letter size mail.

By the way, I thought you might be interested in something a friend posted about mail-in ballots in Shelby County, and maybe others here are interested in the process.

“Here is my promised update on my Poll Worker experience in Shelby County TN: It was a very long day, starting work 7am, ending at 8pm. (I am told working as a poll worker at the voting sites runs even longer-more like 6am until an hour after the polls close, i.e. an hour after the last person in line at closing has in fact voted.) This does take some stamina. We had over 16,000 absentee ballots to count, over 20% of all the votes cast. (An August vote like this would typically handle only 1,000 absentee ballots.) The process was very thorough and precise, with all ballots carefully reviewed for signature matches and proper execution. My Republican colleague and I handled about 1,000 of those ballots. Fewer than 10 of those were rejected. The approved ballots were then scanned electronically. The process is precise, and methodical, and overall very well run. The November election will be even more demanding, though a state supreme court ruling this week insured that TN is one of the last five states in the nation to deny absentee voting to those whose only reason is their fear about contracting Covid-19.”

Also, he mentioned Shelby County is still need more poll workers and it is a paid gig, if you are still looking for some work.

Blackberry's avatar

Hey raging how ya doing? Long time no see.
Well basically business as usual. Apparently voter suppression isn’t anything new in this country.

The more I read about America, the more I’m surprised theres even black people still left alive in this country.
I guess they still needed black people to make money off of in sports. Gotta entertain these “good ole boys” or we’re basically useless. It’s either that or working for bezos I guess.

Blackberry's avatar

Ok that comment I made was a bit aggressive. My apologies I am a bit upset with everything going on.

But voter suppression is still a common tactic that conveniently affects poorer people.

Yellowdog's avatar

Yeah, especially if they have to have an I.D. or prove who they are.

Pandora's avatar

I know one thing for sure. Firing 600,000 people before the elections won’t do the country any favors when unemployment is at an all-time high.
I think the move is despicable, but to be expected by someone who fears losing and has to cheat to win.

Yellowdog's avatar

I am only finding these stories in the usual anti-Trump news sources. The ones who have lied to us consistently since before the 2016 elections, including the New York Times, Washington Post, Guardian, and several others. And the headlines and bilines are rather extreme.

Essentially, what they are saying is, Trump is “Trailing in the poles” and “Attempting to rig the elections” by Firing postal workers and slowing down the system. However, I can find nothing about this from centrist and right-of-center stories including ,mainline news. It is the Democrats in fact who are wanting to create chaos with mail-in voiting whom nobody will trust if they don’t get the outcome they expect, or hope for,

Unless I hear this from sources besides those who have lied about Trump too many times to count, I cannot consider this to be a real story.

ragingloli's avatar

So you are in full denial of reality. You are surprising no one.

Yellowdog's avatar

Why aren’t any other news sources, congress, etc etc commenting on this?

Why aren’t any right-of-center sources covering this or trying to justify it?

Why hasn’t the President said anything about doing this, or why?

I’ve read this in extremely left-leaning sources that have lied countless times in the past, and whose stories turn up nothing factual, I’ll have to concur this is a totally fake story, and you are very gullible for still believing these sources.

ragingloli's avatar

Here is far right wing Faux News trying to spin it
Here is a report about several members of congress talking about it

I conclude that you spent zero time looking it up, and just pulling things out of your arse, as usual.

Strauss's avatar

The reorganization of the USPS is merely the latest move in a long- term effort by Republicans to destabilize the Postal Service with an eye towards privatization. The plan IMHO dovetails nicely with the myth that mail-in voting will result in widespread voting fraud.

Yellowdog's avatar

It could result in fraud. It could result in inaccuracies. It could be within the margin of error accurate. However, if voters don’t get the result they want or expect or believe, there will be massive decries of conspiracy, fraud, error. It WILL happen.

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog It will happen because the Republicans have spent YEARS saying mail-in has more fraud and now Trump says it every time he is in front of reporters. Republicans won’t trust it and Democrats won’t trust because usually the people most likely to do something bad accuse others of doing it. Like the cheating husband who doesn’t trust his wife to have lunch with a male coworker. If we all went in person the vote still won’t be trusted, it would not matter. Does Tennessee still vote with no paper trail? That was odd to me when I lived there. That seems like it could get hacked somehow, or people would believe it could anyway.

In Florida Republican politicians want Trump to shut the hell up, because they trust the system and a ton of Republican votes are cast by mail-in. It’s all political. Now, Trump says, “except Florida, they know what they are doing.” I guess USPS in Florida is better too? That last part is really ridiculous. USPS is not different in Florida, but Trump seems to be implying that. Also, Florida puts your party on the outside of the envelope, I think that should be changed.

Yellowdog's avatar

Nobody trusts election results. Remember the Bush/Gore recount in 2000? A lot of people believe Gore won that election. During the recount, any ballot that was unclear was thrown in the Gore stack. And overseas votes from the Military were not even counted,

In 2016, the morning after the election, I heard that the reason Trump won was because Russia had tampered with our elections. For two days, I was expecting the election to be overturned because what was being said on the news was so convincing and certain. For three years, and again more recently, we are hearing that Trump and Russia “colluded” to steal the election. Hillary never conceded .. she told everyone to ‘resist’.

Just imagine how bad this next election results will be… especially with mail-in voting.

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog I agree everyone is getting paranoid about elections either being tampered with or people being blocked from voting, or even gerrymandering is a problem also.

But, people who work the polls, they see how much care is taken and that people from both parties are there to be eyes on things being done on the straight and narrow. I think people who work down at the polls want it to be fair and honest.

ragingloli's avatar

He basically just admitted that sabotaging the USPS to cripple voting by mail is what he is trying to do:

“Speaking Wednesday at his daily pandemic news briefing, Trump said he would not approve $25 billion in emergency funding for the Postal Service, or $3.5 billion in supplemental funding for election resources, citing prohibitively high costs.

“They don’t have the money to do the universal mail-in voting. So therefore, they can’t do it, I guess,” Trump said. “Are they going to do it even if they don’t have the money?””

JLeslie's avatar

I thought I saw an interview where someone from Oregon said it was less expensive for the state, meaning I guess they pay fewer elections workers. I wonder if states can reallocate monies to the local post office? Or, if the post office can use volunteers?

I still don’t understand why this mail-in burden is so extreme. Worse than income taxes being filed by all Americans? Worse than Christmas? My early voting location had no ne voting the day I dropped off my ballots. There were 6 people working the location.

Yellowdog's avatar

The left touted for years that Trump was a Russian agent—even committing fraud on the FISA courts to accomplish this. Are you really going to trust them with not sabotaging the postal service?

The fact that they want mail-in elections, no voter ID, and every other possible way to get their foot in the door for voter fraud, is suspicious enough to NOT give them the benefit of the doubt.

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog Voter ID has always been a ridiculous fight to me. Why not all agree on ID or signature match and just make it free for people to get ID and/or register their signature.

Strauss's avatar

He is acting in violation of the Constitution Article I Section 8: The Congress shall have the power…to establish post offices and post roads.

By his own admission he is also acting in violation of U. S. Code §10307, to wit: No person acting under color of law shall fail or refuse to permit any person to vote who is entitled to vote… or willfully fail or refuse to tabulate, count, and report such person’s vote.

In some states it is a constitutional right to be able to vote by mail. I think we should see some action by the state Attorneys General.

Yellowdog's avatar

And, how is there a violation of the constitution here?

Is Trump prohibiting the congress from establishing post offices? Is Trump denying anyone the right to vote, or their vote to be counted?

Of course you can vote by mail—its called an Absentee Ballot.

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog Some states require a reason to absentee ballot. I think TN is one of them, unless they changed the law.

ragingloli's avatar

34 states will invalidate your ballot if it arrives too late.

With drumpf intentionally slowing down mail delivery, by getting rid of overtime, removing post boxes, and scrapping mail sorting machines, many millions of voters will have their votes invalidated, by design.
Election Fraud.

JLeslie's avatar

@ragingloli In Florida we are encouraging people to drop theirs at the voting centers, especially now that we are close to our election date. We have an election going on now.

Yellowdog's avatar

@ragingloli It is the Democrats who are wanting to commit election fraud with mail-in ballots and ballot stuffing, and pretending certain ballots arrive too late. That is why we want a real voting /electorial process. We’ve seen a lot of dishonesty with the left pushing a Russia collusion narrative, a phony impeachment process, etc etc. to at the very least be suspicious of what they’re up to with the insistance of mail-in ballots—and we well have a right to be suspicious after these past four years of fraud and deception.

Stop the insults—you are the one on the offense, not those you accuse.

JLeslie's avatar

@Yellowdog The left wants people to be safe when voting and for everyone eligible to be able to vote easily. Not worry about it being a work day, not worry about waiting in line, not worry about transportation to a polling center, not worry about being sick or having an emergency on Election Day. Early voting helps with many of those things, but early voting is typically only at select locations and it’s easy for the locations to not be convenient for people who don’t own cars. Like poor people.

Republicans don’t want minorities to vote. I don’t mean you personally, I’m just saying that is the goal of the Republican Party, to limit the minority vote. There has been convictions with prison time when Republicans prevented minorities from voting by jamming phone lines so they could not order transportation to the polls. There are examples of fraud on both sides of the aisle, but it seems to be very small, and some get caught.

Democrats want to act like fraud never happens and Republicans want to act like their people have 100% integrity and would never stuff a ballot box. Both groups have some bad people, but the majority of the American population has integrity and just wants their one vote to count.

In Arlington, TN when Obama was running the mayor there posted on Facebook we should bring back the property ownership requirement to vote. If that isn’t blatant racism regarding voting rights I don’t know what is. That would probably turn NY into a red state.

Both sides should be working on systems to prevent fraud, but not limiting the vote. Republicans are always trying to limit. They don’t want minorities to have a say. Like one friend of mine said, “democracy is mob rule.” That was telling.

Yellowdog's avatar

OK. You’re pretty much a voice of reason on this crazy website.

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