Meta Question

crazyguy's avatar

Should Fluther get rid of me?

Asked by crazyguy (1363points) 4 weeks ago

I joined about a month ago. During my tenure here, I have attempted to ask questions that provoke thought. I have received some thoughtful answers; but the majority of them have been spouting of people’s preconceived ideas filtered through their mindless beliefs. I am certain that these people do have minds; but they appear to have been brainwashed into thinking a certain way. Therefore I am thinking of just leaving such people to their own devices. As with most discussion boards there is no genuine exchange of ideas. It seems to be 90% Democrats or Trump-haters spouting off their beliefs with few facts. And a few Trump supporters trying to make sense. And being bashed for that.

However, I will not leave myself. If Fluther requests my departure, I’ll be happy to comply. In the meantime I shall stop asking meaningful questions.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

57 Answers

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
canidmajor's avatar

First of all, this should be in Meta.

Secondly, if you come to an anonymous forum that is open to all, you need to expect that not everyone, in fact most people, will not answer exactly as you have A) asked the Q and B) wanted them too.

Thirdly, read the guidelines, rules, whatever, “getting rid you” involves very specific behaviors that you have not displayed (ask the mods, they can give you specifics).

Stay, don’t stay, entirely your call.

This question just seems to be an opportunity for you to beat your breast and shout “I have been wronged!”

LostInParadise's avatar

People tend to have strong opinions on political matters. It is not reasonable to expect that they are going to change their minds. What you should aim for is to present your opinion with as much evidence as possible, and to make note of opposing opinions and the evidence provided in support of them. If this is a satisfactory arrangement for you then you should stay.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@crazyguy: “I have received some thoughtful answers; but the majority of them have been spouting of people’s preconceived ideas filtered through their mindless beliefs.”

I have seen mostly seen thoughtful answers. It seems, however, that those answers that disagree with your ideology are causing you some difficulty.

@crazyguy: “I am certain that these people do have minds; but they appear to have been brainwashed into thinking a certain way.”

You think very little of people, and you’re confirming it here. You come here dripping with extreme ideology, spout the same stuff we’ve all heard before, and treat people with contempt and disrespect. Yet, you demand civility from others. Civility is a tool used to stifle dissent.

@crazyguy: “It seems to be 90% Democrats or Trump-haters spouting off their beliefs with few facts. And a few Trump supporters trying to make sense. And being bashed for that.”

Being “bashed” = pushback. You want people to agree with you. I’m sure you could find a few people that share similar ideas that you could have a discussion with. You could argue about whether Trump is amazing or super-amazing, or maybe have an argument about whether poor people are really “people”.

@crazyguy: “However, I will not leave myself. If Fluther requests my departure, I’ll be happy to comply. In the meantime I shall stop asking meaningful questions.”

Fluther is not going to request your departure. You’re not being oppressed. You are not a victim here, as much as it feels like it. You’re being exposed to ideas that counter your own. It doesn’t feel good all the time, but that’s ok. You’ll be ok.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

Barking up the wrong tree in my case, I would never advocate getting rid of anyone for their political or religious views. But I don’t have to agree with those views, and I don’t, and I won’t. Onward through the fog.

canidmajor's avatar

And yet you, yourself, are advocating getting rid of you for your “political or religious views”.
Go figure. <eyeroll>

Nomore_lockout's avatar

Did you read my post? All I said is that I don’t have to AGREE with his views. That doesn’t imply that I want him gone BECAUSE of them.

canidmajor's avatar

Did you read mine? You are now just messing. Your twisty, obfuscational tactics are borrowed directly from your idols. Congratulations, you are ready to run for office.

And I’m out.

jca2's avatar

If you are a conservative thinker and you want people to agree wholeheartedly with your conservatism, you need to go to a Conservative website/message board/forum. If you are looking for ideas that may be different than your own, then stay.

Coming here to ask this question and insulting the site and its users while you are doing it (“the majority of them have been spouting of people’s preconceived ideas filtered through their mindless beliefs. I am certain that these people do have minds; but they appear to have been brainwashed into thinking a certain way.”) is not a good way to be part of the group, or any group.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

WTF are you talking about? You’re not even making sense. Maybe you should direct your remarks to the OP.

jca2's avatar

Edit to add my post above is directed to the OP.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

I think we have a case of mistaken identity here. crazyguy is the OP people. I’m NoMore_lockout and I was only RESPONDING to the original post.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

@jca2 my apologies then, lot of confusion on here today. Think I’ll go back to bed and start over.

jca2's avatar

@Nomore_lockout: It’s ok. I should have tagged the OP in my post.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

I think I found the problem. My icon or whatever is identical to that of the O.P. Maybe she was looking at the icon rather than the user names.. oh well.

jca2's avatar

@Nomore_lockout: If you’re referring to me, I was never responding to anything you wrote. I was responding to the OP’s question and details (which, I copied and pasted in my post).

canidmajor's avatar

I came back to see all the activity. My bad, @Nomore_lockout, it was indeed the avatar that confused me.

kritiper's avatar

Ask the mods, not us.

Nomore_lockout's avatar

Sorry folks just a lot of confusion over the avatars, no worries. I should look before I bark. All good

Nomore_lockout's avatar

@jca2 I realized that too late. Sorry for jumping on you. I stand before you in shame and disgrace.

jca2's avatar

@Nomore_lockout: No problemo. I stand and forgive you!

Nomore_lockout's avatar

Thank you kindly! : )

rebbel's avatar

If anything, you should rid yourself, if you so desire; Fluther won’t do it for you.

zenvelo's avatar

Back to the OP’s question:

@crazyguy You would get a friendlier response if you didn’t post fake controversies, fake facts, and fake news. Your posts come across as a QAnon wannabe. We get enough of that crap from Fox News.

Try citing a credible news source once in a while

KNOWITALL's avatar

You made the mistake of outing yourself as a conservative too early, that’s all. Sometimes you have to gauge your audience before you jump in.

Being from California, like many others here, and being a legal immigrant, I’m sure your conservative opinions are harder to take than someone like me from a red state who is too ignorant to know any better haha!

I’ve literally been called almost every name in the book here, just in the last 3 years. No one ever claimed it was a safe space, so take care of your own mental health.

jca2's avatar

I don’t think it’s the OP’s conservative opinions that are hard to take, I think it’s his insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with him that’s hard to take (prime example in his post).

KNOWITALL's avatar

@jca2 Yeah, because no one does that here. (eyeroll)

Can’t we at least TRY as a community to elevate conversational dialogue above a junior high level? Is orange hair and orange man, the best we can do?

stanleybmanly's avatar

I see no evidence that anyone here wants you removed. Your opinions are your own, no matter how ridiculous, and I think your presence essential, for the very fact that your views run so flagrantly counter to my own. Of course you and the wulf are outnumbered. You pop up here lauding Trump, the reaction is sharp and SHOULD BE. Tripping my Trump switch is a suicide mission, and I make no apologies for the fact that anyone selling the proposition that a turd is in fact a rose deserves and will get an argument suitable to the proposition. But you are invaluable and necessary here, if only to remind the rest of us of what we are up against.

janbb's avatar

@KNOWITALL I think most of the time it is a much higher level than most other places on the ‘Net. You should see what goes on about masks on my local neighborhood board. Most of us go with the give and take without feeling victimized – and that is not because we all agree. Some of the most heated discussions on here have been between Bernie supporters and Hillary supporters back in the day.

But if you call me a “baby killer” for supporting women’s right to choose, I might come back at you a tad sharply. Tant pis.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@janbb Well we must hang out in different circles. I’m more of a Legislative Review type, and keep things at a certain level of discourse or you’re banned.

I’ve been here quite awhile now and I think most of you know how I roll. I don’t enjoy the bickering or namecalling, I have far more important things to do. :D

Darth_Algar's avatar

Leave or don’t leave – it’s your choice. No one’s going to ask you to. Nice try at playing the martyr, but one’s buying it and no one cares.

Demosthenes's avatar

Yes, yes, conservatives good, liberals bad, Trump good, Democrats bad, people who agree with me good, people who disagree brainwashed and bad. You say you want interesting discussion, but you’re just saying the same crap that everyone who’s firmly entrenched in a “side” says. I’m disappointed too because my interactions with you have so far been positive and I’ve enjoyed your questions, but this one sucks.

Demosthenes's avatar

Okay, here are some pro-tips that I’ve learned from my time asking controversial questions:

1. Ignore responses that don’t answer the question. Some people are going to ignore the question and answer their own question. Ignore them, as hard as it may be. They’re not worth responding to. Ignore also responses that are just personal. Personal attacks should be reported and removed, but other times people are going to make the question about you rather than the topic. These types of responses are also not worth it.
2. Don’t expect to change anyone’s mind. Present your argument, respond to the counter-arguments, but don’t make your goal in asking the question changed minds or agreement. It’s not going to happen. I ask plenty of contentious questions and receive plenty of answers I disagree with. Debating those answers can be fun or a learning experience (even if all that happens is I strengthen my own arguments), but I’m not expecting anyone to change their mind (including me).
3. Don’t accuse people who disagree with you of not having facts, being brainwashed, lying, or being haters. If you have the facts, then present the facts. If you have a better argument, then make it. If you view your opponent as a braindead enemy who needs to be vanquished, you’re not fostering thoughtful discussion.
4. Don’t shoot down any answers that disagree with you. This is something I’m sure I used to do, but it only makes people more aggressive and more likely to focus on you rather than the topic.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
KNOWITALL's avatar

@crazyguy Its just not for everyone. And it took quite awhile for me to adjust my headspace to accomodate ideas I disagree with and just listen. Not everything requires a response.
If I may make a suggestion, just spend some time here reading and not typing. Maybe a few days or a week.
Its a very tough year emotionally for so many people we have to remember our compassion, too.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@crazyguy: “I wish Fluther had an IGNORE list.”

You can create your own ideological bubble by either just ignoring the comments from those that disagree with you, or leaving to spend your time with your golfing buddies so you can agree about stuff.

Response moderated
jca2's avatar

What I try to do, now, is not get involved deeply in big debates, arguments or discussions on the internet. This, especially because like @Demosthenes said, and is my personal philosophy, that you’re (“you” meaning me, you and everyone) not going to change people’s minds on the internet.

Long ago, here, when I was jca (I joined in 2007 as jca), there were really long discussions about Christianity. There were a few people, who are no longer here, who would post long diatribes, really long, really heated, making fun of Christians. My response to those was usually “can’t we all just get along?” That quote is from Rodney King, after the LA riots in the 90’s. I’m a Christian, and the posts seemed to lump all Christians into the fundamentalist category, like we’re all praising Jesus 24/7. Still, I didn’t try to change people’s minds. Whatever they believe, they believe. Whatever they think, if they think I’m praising Jesus 24/7 and in church every Sunday, that’s on them.

Then it became, four years ago, really long discussions about Bernie vs Hillary vs. Trump. Those I didn’t get involved in, much, either.

To summarize, I feel life is too short to get involved in big debates and fights on the internet. I have other things going on – a family, a job, recreation, etc. You will see I jump in on here, here and there, and post but usually briefly and usually nothing too heated. Nothing too involved. If I ask a question, I try not to argue with people who post that don’t agree with my stance.

I don’t dislike you. I don’t dislike most people as long as they’re not too nasty. Everyone here has gotten on everyone’s nerves at some point. That’s the nature of the internet.

On Facebook, I have some friends that refer to liberals as “libtards” and stuff like that. I don’t comment on those, either. I dislike those comments, I don’t engage in them, but if people want to spout hate-speech, that’s up to them.

MrGrimm888's avatar

No. Diversity is a good thing.

crazyguy's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I agree 100%. Every time somebody I disagree with brings up good points that I had not considered before, I give them my full attention. If I cannot rebut them I make them part of my thinking. However, generally I find I can provide a good rebuttal. That is enjoyable.

What I find to be a waste of my time and energy is reading responses that do one of three things:

1. Refuse to acknowledge anything contained in some sources, like FoxNews.
2. Repeat thoroughly debunked arguments.
3. State some motherhood and apple pie stuff, which may be wholly inapplicable to the discussion.

crazyguy's avatar

@jca2 Thanks for your insight. I know from my own friends’ circle few people like to dig deep. Even fewer like to engage in deep discussions of anything.

I am going to follow my wife’s advice: don’t change, but realize how shallow most people are, and learn to deal with them at that level. Because not dealing with a vast majority of the population is not an option.

jca2's avatar

@crazyguy: In my case, I don’t think of myself as “shallow” as relates to Fluther. I think of it as picking and choosing my battles, life is too short for battling, who has time for it? There’s enough strife in the real world. Enough going on with other stuff (as I mentioned, I and we all have other stuff going on in our lives).

Shallow is not a word I would think of to describe anyone here.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@crazyguy “I am going to follow my wife’s advice: don’t change, but realize how shallow most people are, and learn to deal with them at that level.”

This kind of arrogance, and not your political orientation, is why you’re going over like a lead balloon here.

hmmmmmm's avatar

Don’t forget, @crazyguy – The reason you stopped communicating with me was because I was because my “views are extreme”. It was not due to how shallow I am.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@crazyguy . As I have opened to many conservatives, on this site. You need thick skin, and the ability to stand your ground.

I don’t agree with you, on some topics. I may become a jelly, you hate. However. That doesn’t mean that my opinions are right, or that you are wrong.

I’ve heard much worse criticism, than what I’ve seen you face.

Your opinions, are what keep our pond strong. I’m not here,to be part of an echo chamber.

You’re doing just fine, as far as I’m concerned.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm888 ‘I’m not here,to be part of an echo chamber.’

I’m thrilled to hear yousay that. The diversity of thought was always the big draw for me, here.

How could anyone not like you, buddy?! Aces in my book! :D

zenvelo's avatar

@crazyguy In a deflection worthy of your buddy Trump himself, you project your own behavior on others:

“What I find to be a waste of my time and energy is reading responses that do one of three things:

1. Refuse to acknowledge anything contained in some sources, like FoxNews.
2. Repeat thoroughly debunked arguments.

Fox News has no credibility, zero, and anyone using it as a reference does not deserve any respectable consideration. Yet you castigate credible news sources such as The Washington Post or the NY Times. They may have liberal slant but they don;t publish lies.

And you continually bring up debunked arguments.

Caravanfan's avatar

If you don’t like it here, leave. Here you go.
https://www.fluther.com/settings/deleteaccount/

jca2's avatar

This question kind of reminds me on FB, in groups, when someone will post an insult about the group, and they’ll say “I’m leaving.” Others will post funny memes that say “buh-bye” and they’ll post things like “This isn’t an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure.”

I’m not recommending you leave, @crazyguy. I think every member here is valuable, especially because it’s such a small, intimate community. I’m just saying that if you do leave, you don’t have to announce it or plea for people to beg you to stay. Just leave quietly.

crazyguy's avatar

@Caravanfan Thanks for your input. I have decided to stay, mostly as an observer. Although I will post from time to time.

elbanditoroso's avatar

And the world breathes a huge sigh of relief.

Historical note: People have come and people have gone from Fluther over the years. Some where flaming liberals, some true anarchists, some ultra-rightists, some moderates, some complete assholes. We have people who were totally focused on one subject, but others who join in on a lot of different topics.

There’s a smart enough crowd here that can see right away if a Flutherite has an agenda or if he/she is here to engage. People with agendas don’t last as long.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Would you not agree, that we all, have an agenda?
Once you have been here, long enough, you can pretty much predict a version of each jelly’s responses, to many topics…

People, for the most part, are predictable. Most. Don’t have radical changes, in their thought process….

That, to me, is no reason to not interact….

With all due respect.

zenvelo's avatar

^^^^. @MrGrimm888 I don’t have an agenda. I am just a run of the mill American Patriot who believes in Truth, Justice, and the American Way, and takes umbrage when people wish to limit opportunities for others.

janbb's avatar

@zenvelo Aww – I bet you have a big “Z” on your undershirt!

Demosthenes's avatar

I’m a big promoter of the Gay Agenda :)

janbb's avatar

Just an aside – If someone is new and comes on every day and posts three political questions in a row and lambasts everyone who answers “wrongly” as brainless and with an agenda, my guess is that they are the problem.

So – stay or go, but don’t pretend that you’re being victimized. The 545 children whose parents they can’t find are the real victims right now.

JLeslie's avatar

You are new here, you are still getting to know people. Fluther isn’t going to banish you unless you personally attack people. We do have a lot of liberal minded people here, so having some conservative jellies is good. This is a place for discussion, and having opposing views helps us all learn.

Maybe try some Q’s that aren’t political. Add some variety to your experience here if you haven’t already.

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