General Question

rawpixels's avatar

If there's so much love for the "Palestinians," why don't wealthy Arab nations support them?

Asked by rawpixels (2658points) December 29th, 2008

I don’t want to debate whether or not the Palestinians should have their own state. I do want to know if there’s so much outrage on the part of Arabs, why don’t wealthy Arab nations like Saudi Arabia, the UAE, etc., support the so-called “Palestinians” and make their lives a bit better? In my opinion, the Israeli-Palestinian issue is kept alive to be used as a convenient excuse for savage behavior. Opinions?

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53 Answers

jholler's avatar

That’s an excellent question, especially considering that charity is one of the pillars of islam. I don’t have an answer.

rawpixels's avatar

@jholler
Good point about charity being one of the pillars of Islam.

PupnTaco's avatar

Perhaps they do. I Googled “Saudi Arabia” support palestine and got a good number of hits. Substitute “Jordan,” “Syria,” etc. and I suspect the results would be similar.

rawpixels's avatar

@PupnTaco
I know that Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries have sent funds to families of suicide bombers in the past, but if these oil-rich nations really wanted to help the lives of the average Palestinian, they could do so easily. Also, aside from money, I’m sure these countries could find it in their hearts to take in some of these people. Like I said previously, it’s my opinion that the Palestinian issue is used as an excuse to carry out terrorist attacks.

galileogirl's avatar

Something we could have asked during most of the 20th century is why if there was so much love for the Irish why didn’t rich Americans make their lives better? There was an ongoing conflict including bombing and incarceration for many decades. Walls were built through towns with armed checkpoints, funerals were bombed, people who tried to end the conflict peaceably were assassinated. Much of the money that was collected ended up paying for arms or supporting the families of killers.

If you can answer the WHY? to my question, you can probably answer WHY? to the Palestinian question. It is a HUMAN question of course, having nothing to do with religion, race or culture.

flameboi's avatar

The rest of the Arab nations (specaially the rich Arab nations) cannot get involved in the conflict as they have strong commercial ties with the U.S. and we all know that Isarel is in the middle of the Arab world because of the pressure the U.S. put on the U.N. back in the day. The only country that can actually may have a chance to back up the Palestinias would be Iran, and then, Israel might be in big, big trouble.
Remember, Israel has not been recognized by the League of Arab Nations as a country, for them, Israel is an invader state, like cancer in the heart of the Arab world, that has brought pain and suffering to the Palestinians since the end of the British mandate of Palestine in the late 1940’s. Israel does not belong there.

Knotmyday's avatar

Using the same blanket terminology, you could also say “Canada doesn’t belong there,” “The United States doesn’t belong there,” “Australia doesn’t belong there,” and in fact, any government created by man. Israel is located in a semitic, Mediterranean world, not an “Arab” world. Saying anything more sounds xenophobic and exclusionary.

Cardinal's avatar

Hamas (حماس Ḥamās, an acronym of حركة المقاومة الاسلامية Ḥarakat al-Muqāwamat al-Islāmiyyah, meaning “Islamic Resistance Movement”) is a Palestinian Sunni paramilitary organization and political party which holds a majority of seats in the elected legislative council of the Palestinian National Authority.

I think the Arab nations may have second thoughts about siding with the Hamas, they would alienate a Hell of a lot of folks.

They are very militant and have been tossing rockets onto Israel for months. Perhaps Saudia Arabia could carve off a little corner of their miserable desert and make a dedicated Hama state. The Israelis have every right to live where they are. They have exsisted there for 2000+ years

flameboi's avatar

@Knotmyday
I disagree
Israel in fact declered it’s independence the day after the Bristish mandate of Palestine expired, within territories that were already under a “rule”. Australia and the United States were colonized territories of the United Kingdom (I’m not sure about Canada) as well as territories in Africa. So the examples you mention are not valid.
Besides, what happened with Israel was similar to what happened with the United States in the civil war, it was some kind of secession if we can see it from a similar point of view. The difference is that in the case of Israel, the secession was backed by the U.S. and recognized by the U.N. (mostly, because of diplomatic influence, then, by force). When that happened to the U.S. no other country (I think one did, but I can’t remember which one) recognized the southern states as a new republic, thus, the problem was solved in-house.

flameboi's avatar

I privately said to Cardinali
No I’m not out of my mind, I attended classes of middle-east studies for almost 2 years…
I think you should check your history books in depth… It’s true, the 7 tribes have been walking around that area for thousands of years, like, for example, mmm… The Romans, they have been around for thousands of years either but that does not mean that Italy will take action to claim territories in the Iberian peninsula. Got my point? I forgot to mention, it seems that the word “proportion” does not mean anything in Israel. Let me remind you, Israel has imposed a commercial blockade against Palestinian territories… The “preventive” actions can be labeled as a brutal display of military power, The Palestinian forces in the border are a bunch of twentysomething college kids throwing stones to the Israeli forces that fight back shooting tear gas, and in some cases (too many stones) they fire back their weapons. Did you know that because of the blockade kids in the refugee camps can die of an stomach infection that can be treated with $2.00 worth of medicines?
Also, would you check the slide shows in the New York Times with the pictures of the attacks/casualties in the Palestinian side of the border, the father in the refugee camp that lost 5 daughters, or the 3 kids that were hit in an airstrike earlier today…

susanc's avatar

@knot: interesting construction. You are talking about expansion into territories claimed by Europeans in each of the cases you cite. “Any government created by man” ought to include “governments” not based solely on the European/monarchic/feudal/slowly-developed-charter-based/slowly-developed-parliamentary-but-essentially-mercantile model, but…
does it, in your mind?
How do you factor in “governments” such as (but not limited to) the Aussie aboriginal social model, the Iroquois Nation model, which were in place and pretty time-tested before white folk arrived? Were they not “governments created by man”? Okay, if they are/were, then the Palestinian way of governance – without national borders ratified by European heads of state – was also a “government created by man”. I’ve gotta go see my shrink now (!), but do you see what I mean? I think we have forgotten that national borders do not a nation make, especially if they’re drawn by people outside the communities living in the lands in question. See Africa as a horrendous example of unworkable boundaries.

laureth's avatar

The first country that took Palestinians in was Jordan. As soon as they got settled in Jordan, to show their thanks for the hospitality, the Palestinians attempted to stage a coup. Jordan kicked them out and said to Israel, “Hey, welcome to the neighborhood!”

Then, Lebanon took in the Palestinians. The Palestinians moved into what had been a very stable, multi-cultural society and riled people up into civil war. The only thing that ended the civil war was Syria stepping in and taking control, making Lebanon basically a Syrian colony.

It seems like everywhere Palestine goes, they cause trouble and strife. I can see why no one really wants to take them in.

That said, if the United States loves Israel so much and wants them to have room to spread out and be a State, why don’t we open up our borders and take in the Palestinians – you know, just to get them out of Israel’s way? What could go wrong? ;)

Knotmyday's avatar

@Susan- Absolutely. Governance is governance. However, borders do define nations…that’s how we know where they are. Of course, they change from time to time, due to the vagaries of the elements and the human animal.

@flamboi- what would you propose as a solution? Kindly ask Israel to dissolve into diaspora 2? Not gonna happen. Shoot rockets into the urban areas expecting immediate surrender? Apparently that hasn’t worked either.
Why can’t everyone just get along, rather than whipping themselves into rhetoric (and ultimately violent) frenzies?
That should be the aim of all peace-loving clerics and politicos, rather than pointless bloodshed.

Mizuki's avatar

Let’s not loose sight of the fact that Palestine is basically an overpopulated prision for millons of folks that have never been convicted of anything. They have been living in a prision for 50 years. The Palestininans throw rocks at Apache helicoptors and Bradley tanks, made in the USA.

Anyone want some hand cleaner to wipe off the blood?

rawpixels's avatar

I love how the Palestinians demand this and that, while they hurl rocks and rockets at Israelis. Personally, I have little sympathy for them. I think they enjoy being the victims of the world.

Mizuki's avatar

@raw—before or after you kill small animals?

rawpixels's avatar

@Mizuki
That made no sense :)

Cardinal's avatar

@Mizuk That last statement didn’t make any sense and if that is Hamas blood on my hands I am happy with it there!

laureth's avatar

Hamas is the duly elected government of Palestine. Do you dislike democracy?

rawpixels's avatar

@laureth
The fact that Hamas was elected to rule only reinforces my notion that the Palestinian people think they will achieve their own state by terrorist tactics. Let’s face it, there will never be peace there. Groups like Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezzbollah, and all the others won’t rest until all the Jews are thrown into the sea. Since, the Jews aren’t about to throw in the towel any time soon, I think it’s safe to say that this conflict will last well beyond any of our lifetimes.

laureth's avatar

It’s long lasting, and it will last long, too. There are no pure “good guys” in this battle, though.

Hamas is more than just “homeland security” for the Palestinians, though. They’re also the “Social Security Administration,” “head start” and “a thousand points of light” to the people.

rawpixels's avatar

@laureth
Yes, Hamas also does a lot for their people in social services, etc., but that doesn’t make them any less fanatical. Hitler made a lot of improvements in the lives of average Germans, too. I agree that there are no “pure good guys,” but I am perceptive enough to see that when Israelis kill innocents, it’s almost always the result of collateral damage, but when Palestinians kill innocents, it’s almost always done intentionally.

flameboi's avatar

@laureth
“It seems like everywhere Palestine goes, they cause trouble and strife. I can see why no one really wants to take them in.” Saying that is just not right, they have the right to live in their own land, like Mizuki said, they have been living in a prison for over 50 years. Palestinians will not let any other country to take control of them as they want to be free.
@rawpixels
No one will enjoy to be the victims of the world, that doesn’t make any sense. It is true that organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah (now) and the PLO and Fatah (black September) in the past (specially the PLO) used all the wrong means to force Israel out of the region, especially during the late 60’s and 70’s when the practices of the Palestinian organizations were acts of terrorism like we have not seen in decades now. But also we have to leave clear that they were, in some way, forced to take this kind of actions as the all the diplomatic channels were used and blocked by Israel and its allies.
@Knot
Solution, well, there will be no solution, we have to be ready to expect the worst. As a political move, Arab nations may start a blockade affecting all nations that may be considered Israel allies, that means, no more petroleum, clear and simple. Russia has very tight ties with the League of Arab nations, and will not back up Israel or the U.S. that means, no more natural gas and military support to the Palestinians. With the prices of energy going up to the sky again and so the crisis.
The league of Arab nations has enough military power (specially Iran) to erase Israel from the map. Remember, the 6 day war was the result of incredible luck (and an amazing surprise airstrike that destroyed the Egyptian air force while on ground). If things keep going this way, we might expect a large scale war in the region.

Mizuki's avatar

The injustice and terrorist inflicted upon Palestinians will come back to haunt Americans. Americans are so blinded by their fairy tale Christianity and baseless fantasy belief that Israel can do no harm.
How’s about reading your own Bible’s old testament. Israel broke Gods covenant by your own book, yet you refuse to believe your own book.
No one group can imprison another group without consequences, and the US and Israel will eventually pay in a manner that will make 9/11 look like an amusement park event. This will bear its self out even if it takes 500 years.
The Palestinians throw stones and Israel responds with “made in the USA” bombs and tanks and helicopters.
Thomas Jefferson said something to the effect of—I tremble when I reflect that our is a just God, and that his justice shall not forever sleep.”
The success of Hamas, is a result of American failure in the region. Hamas builds hospitals, Hamas builds schools, Hamas brings employment and social services. The problem is that Americans have one standard for white people and another standard for brown people. Like how the Constitution gave black people 3/5ths the right of a white man, that thinking still permeates our collective consciousness.
It just blows my mind to see Jesus lovers cheer on Israel’s slaughter of civilians…Like in 1943 when Begin bombed the King David Hotel during holiday and killed children and old people and vacationing families——it is heroic when Jews commit terrorism and mass murder civilians. When a hopelessly poor, unemployed, Palestinian blows him self up—white people will use this to justify killing 1000 Palestinians. What would Jesus do?
I want some Jesus loving Evangelical to come on the thread and tell me how Christlike it is to kill children and women and old people with Apache Helicopters and aerial bombs in retaliation for stones and bottle rockets.

laureth's avatar

Actually, that 3/5ths thing wasn’t about rights per se, it was about counting the population of the South for purposes of representation in government.

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@Mizuki, You said “Hamas builds schools.” Yeah, they build schools that teach their youth to hate Jews, kill Israelis. Also, there were several warnings sent before the bombing of the King David Hotel. Third, What’s with all this Jesus-loving crap? There is no argument there. America itself was founded by the slaughter of thousands of Native Americans. Hundreds of countries have been founded by conquering and killing others. It’s how new nations come to be.

Knotmyday's avatar

@Mizuki- “White people” ? ?

flameboi's avatar

@omfg
“Hundreds of countries have been founded by conquering and killing others. It’s how new nations come to be”
Yes, but then Israel is now a nation because of the U.N. that does not justify the bloodbath… Israel’s hands are stained with the blood of Palestinian children and women, and so the the Palestinians, but with a big difference, for every jew, Israel has taken the life of at least 100 Palestinians (the death count now is 390 – 4) in every incursion. Even when they took revenge against the operative members of black september.
If the Palestinians don’t want to be conquered, they have the right to defend themselves with the little military means they have, right?

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@flameboi, The difference lies in how people are killed. Everywhere in the world people kill others no one gives two shits. The reason everyone’s making such a hullaballoo about the recent offensive attacks is because Israel has always only attacked as a defensive, using the army, not by sending their innocent youth to blow themselves up in a raucous attempt to kill as many Jews and Israelis as possible. For almost the first time ever, Israel is on the offensive to prevent future deaths of their own innocent citizens. It is each government’s job to protect their citizens, and if the only way to do that (after years and years of attempted negotiations and continued suicide bombings and terrorist attacks from the opposing nation) is through violence, then so be it.

flameboi's avatar

@omf
I disagree
The word that Israel uses is “persuasive” not “defensive” as you say. Why, because they are in constant display of their military capabilities. Let’s state an example if you were the brother or father of the two girls murdered by Israel as a result of the airstrike last Monday, wouldn’t you go and blow yourself up because there is nothing else you can do?

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@flameboi, They are in constant display of military capabilities because there is a constant stream of rockets and terrorist attacks coming from Gaza.
My best friend was killed in a suicide bombing 2 blocks from my apartment three days after my 9th birthday (in Jerusalem). I could hear the screams and chaos from the couch in my living room where she and I had been sitting not 10 minutes before. As a result I have participated in countless programs, youth groups, and leadership commissions to learn myself how to dialogue with Arabs and Palestinians to eradicate the violence, and to train other teenagers to do the same. My reaction and the reaction of the person in your example are the inherent differences. We were taught to communicate verbally to resolve our differences, whereas Palestinian and Arab children in Gaza are taught by their self-elected government, Hamas to hate Jews and Israelis and that their only option to advance themselves in life is to go and kill themselves to salvage their family’s honor.

flameboi's avatar

@omf
I’m sorry for your loss…
In 2006 the hotel where a group of friends were staying in Beirut was hit when Israel was attacking Lebanon, they have nothing to do with the conflict and saved their lives by an inch.
It is true what you say, violence generates more violence, but Israel does not know how to measure their response, Ehud Barak is in campaign now, that’s why they don’t call for a cease of hostilities, it’s a politically calculated move.
Hamas was not self selected, people (not all) support Hamas because they don’t want to live 50 more years as exiles in their own land. The Arab children do not grow up the way you say, I have friends of Arab ancestry, and most of them (they grew up in occupied Palestine) do not approve or support terror tactics by the different organizations that promote the independence of Palestine based on the limits of what used to be the British Mandate, but also I have a few friends that cannot do more but cry every time they hear that an airstrike hit 18 teenagers that were coming back home from school because of a mistake.
The tactics that Palestinians uses against Israel are the only tactics they know, home-made rockets vs. Apache helicopters, it’s like David vs. Goliath. trust me, if there was no such thing as a blockade, and Palestinians could count with friends the way Israel does, the Zionist movement would have been blown up from the planet long ago, but, in occupied Palestine, you can hardly find bread or fresh vegetables, even medicines because of the imposed blocked by Israel and backed by the U.S. What do you want from the children of Palestine, they cannot enjoy a normal childhood because they know that because of Israel there are not enough pencils or books in their schools. It’s new whole generation that has been lost to violence again because of the reprisals that Israel takes against Paletinians.

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@flameboi, I’m going to address the last paragraph since I feel bad about getting so off-topic from the original question and the last paragraph is on topic.
The reason they’re the only tactics they know is because the government has done nothing to introduce other tactics, such as verbal communication and non-violence. The rest of what you said is a travesty against humanity, as it is every time a group of people is in that situation. It just goes back to the original question of why the 6 Arab nations surrounding Israel and Gaza won’t help them out by providing food and medical care.

Mizuki's avatar

The 6 Arab nations surrounding Israel and Gaza won’t help them out by providing food and medical care, because George Hitler Bush is still in power and those countries fear what the lamest of lame ducks in capable in the waning hours of his power.

jholler's avatar

I think it more likely that the 6 Arab nations surrounding Israel don’t help them out because they hate Jews.

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@jholler, What? It’s not Israel we want the 6 Arab nations to help out, it’s the Arabs and Palestinians living in Gaza we want them to help out.

flameboi's avatar

I think we should leave this topic as it is for now…

Mizuki's avatar

here comes the Christian name calling…..

rawpixels's avatar

Wow, where did my posts go? I guess someone doesn’t like my opinions

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@rawpixels, You’re posts are way up there ^^^^.

Mizuki's avatar

Here is an interesting take below:

http://321energy.com/editorials/moriarty/moriarty010509.html

The latest war crime on behalf of the whiners in Israel and their blind and ignorant supporters in the US have resulted in the deaths of 531 Palestinians and an additional 2500 wounded. Let me put that into perspective. The US has 200 times the population so for us to experience the same causalities, we would have to have 106,200 deaths and some 500,000 wounded in ten days of massacre.

Let me give you some facts no American media will provide you with. The Gaza Ghetto is 139 square miles, about the size of Philadelphia or Seattle. Within the Ghetto 1.5 million people live in abject poverty with an unemployment rate of 65%. It’s one of the most densely populated areas on earth. Israel maintains a total and complete blockade on the Ghetto (In comparison, the Warsaw Ghetto contained only 500,000 people)

The blockade is illegal but seeing as how Israel has ignored hundreds of UN Resolutions regarding their illegal treatment of Palestinians, it’s just one more war crime on their part.

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@Mizuki, That has nothing to do with the question, and a lot of those “facts” are wrong and extremely biased and one-sided. You’re wearing blinders buddy.

Mizuki's avatar

Which facts are wrong? Sure the author may be biased, as we all are.

I cannot dispute the facts though, show me what facts are wrong so I can reformulate my opinion based on fact.

You are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. I think Israel gets a free pass, or a license to kill. I also think that the Israel Arab conflict will be the undoing of the American Empire. We will go down just like the USS Liberty. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

omfg—are my facts strait on the USS Liberty?

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

First and foremost, Israel is not only sending medical supplies and foodstuffs to the Gaza Strip (which was given to them by Israel so that they could have a place to call their own in the first place), but they are one of the ONLY countries who have organized help and aid for the Palestinians living there. And that is what this question is about. While Israel just sent another 700 trucks of supplies into Gaza, no one else is sending anything. Why? That’s what this question is about. How about answering it rather than circumnavigating the question and spamming the thread with false facts and one-sidedness. If you want to argue the moral side of the issue without accusing people of “Christian name calling” (which you are the only one who seems to be doing that anyway), then ask a separate question.

Mizuki's avatar

Of course, attack the messenger, friends of Israel have been doing that for years. Make accusations, with out backing it up, attack me personally—since you are on the wrong side of the issue, you must go on the attack. The truth is tough to take, sorry you are having such a hard time with reality.

omfgTALIjustIMDu's avatar

@mizuki, How am I attacking you in any way shape or form? Or making accusations of any kind?

And, once again, you are avoiding the topic of the question.

rawpixels's avatar

This is not directed at any post/person in particular, but I have something to say. All I ever hear is how terribly the Arabs are treated by the Israelis, yet I never hear how damn intolerant most Muslims are towards Jews, Christians, and all other Non-Muslims. I’d love to hear how Non-Muslims are treated in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt, etc…

I sure wouldn’t want to be a Non-Muslim living in any of the countries mentioned.

Mizuki's avatar

Wealthy Arab allies find them selves hanging from gallows when they support the Palestinians.
The US military, the strong arm of Israel sees to it, no?
Raw—you are comparing apples and grapefruits. The Palestinians are prisoners. They cannot come and go. They are compressed into an tiny area like animals. They have limited opportunities, or none at all.
It is not like Palestinians are on Spring Break, they are in prison in their own homes, until the tanks run over the houses.
If it is accepted that Palestinians are less than human, or not deserving of the same rights as the rest of us, just say so. It’ll feel good to get off your chest.

rawpixels's avatar

@Mizuki
You’re just babbling nonsense. The fact is, if Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and other fanatical groups just stopped strapping bombs to themselves in order to blow up innocent Jews, perhaps they would have their own state by now. Unfortunately, far too many Arabs are being taught from the age of 3 to despise Jews.

It’s pretty simple…stop blowing up innocents, sit down and negotiate with Israel, and you’ll get your own state. Unfortunately, too many Palestinians don’t want Israel to exist, which only means decades more of this crap.

Mizuki's avatar

Raw, you’re not going to blow yourself up now are ya?

rawpixels's avatar

Nope, I’m not inflatable :)

zensky's avatar

Why indeed.

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