Social Question

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

Will fanatical Muslims make good on their threat to kill Trey Parker and Matt Stone from South Park?

Asked by Captain_Fantasy (11431points) April 21st, 2010

South Park creators Matt and Trey are receiving death threats from a Muslim group after showing Mohammed in a bear suit.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

56 Answers

rangerr's avatar

I’d be very pissed if those boys died.

filmfann's avatar

Since they already have the death threats on them, Matt and Trey should REALLY let loose.
And if anything happens to them, nuke’em till they glow!

rebbel's avatar

As long as those bastards don’t kill Kenny.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Is that who killed Kenny? ? ? ?

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

Seems like a bit of an overreaction.

Ame_Evil's avatar

I just don’t understand religious people any more after reading that link. If someone offends someone’s god, surely it would be the god’s will to invoke wraith on that person and not a follower? I am pretty sure in all religions murder is wrong, so I don’t understand why terrorism exists.

SeventhSense's avatar

They haven’t got Salman Rushdie yet. And it certainly hasn’t affected his Mojo It’s anyone’s guess and anything’s possible.
Should they stop? Never. I think his image should be plastered like Andy Warhols’ multiples all over every city on the planet.
What do you do with sacred cows? You topple them.

dpworkin's avatar

The future is hazy. Ask again tomorrow.

rebbel's avatar

@rangerr
I really read ”I’d be very pleased if those boys died.” at first.
And you got a GA for it as well….
But yeah, couldn’t agree with you more.

holden's avatar

But how can they prove that it really was Muhammed in the bear suit?
True, it was implied that Muhammed was in the bear suit, but he was never depicted in the flesh.

rebbel's avatar

Wow, observant @holden !

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

Obviously holden, such deep thoughts never even crossed the minds of the fanatics.

kevbo's avatar

You mean we haven’t killed all the Muslims yet?

ETpro's avatar

No. In a pathetically botched attempt, they will accidentally kill Kenny again.

Ria777's avatar

@Captain_Fantasy: Seems like a bit of an overreaction.

not it you take your religion literally.

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

Murder in retribution for the crime of satire seems a bit much to me.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Great Caesar’s ghost! There will be one hell of a wake with lots of food!

Ria777's avatar

@Captain_Fantasy: what if someone insulted your most cherished loved one? again, they take it all literally.

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

I’m mature enough to be able to brush off personal insults without threatening people’s lives.
Their actions seem like the definition of cowardice to me.

TexasDude's avatar

Religion of peace :-|

dalepetrie's avatar

From what I read, some extremist group posted something on the internet saying they should be careful because others (not them) might take that kind of thing the wrong way and do harm to them. Is that a veiled threat or a sincere warning? Funniest thing to me is I saw that episode and basically it was mostly about how we can’t actually show a depiction of Mohammed, so we should hide him from view, by putting him in an enclosed truck or having him wear a bear suit. The point was, OK everyone else’s religion you can show their god, but OK, yours is off limits, we get that, but what’s the workaround? Pretty much saying, no matter WHAT we do, you ain’t gonna be happy. What a great way to prove them wrong, eh?

holden's avatar

Really, I think that if anyone should be pissed at those guys it would be Sarah Jessica Parker. That recent episode about her was uncommonly mean-spirited and cruel. I mean, at least the episodes about Britney Spears and Mel Gibson and so forth were funny, but I felt bad about laughing at that one.

mattbrowne's avatar

Sadly, it’s actually quite likely. This happens in Europe from time to time. For example in the Netherlands and Denmark.

Theo van Gogh a great-grandson of artist-painter Vincent van Gogh was assassinated by Mohammed Bouyeri, a Dutch-Moroccan Muslim in 2004. Van Gogh worked with Somali-born writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali to produce the film Submission, which was critical of the treatment of women in Islam.

Kurt Westergaard, a Danish cartoonist, who created the controversial cartoon of the Muslim Prophet Muhammad wearing a bomb in his turban. Early this year, a 28-year-old Somali Muslim intruder armed with an ax and knife entered Westergaard’s house and was subsequently shot and wounded by police. Westergaard was unharmed due to security precautions in his house. He fled to a panic room when he saw the intruder standing in the hallway wielding an ax. The intruder attempted to break down the reinforced door with his ax, shouting phrases like “We will get our revenge!”, “Revenge!” and “Blood!” (see Wikipedia).

Trey Parker and Matt Stone are in danger and should think about security precautions.

Some fanatical Muslims are extremely dangerous. They are like the Gestapo.

JeffVader's avatar

I think it’s unlikely that they’ll succeed, I mean, look at Salman Rushdie, he’s still alive & kicking….. & anyway, what other reaction would anyone expect!

meagan's avatar

It wasn’t a threat. They said that. “This is not a threat, but a warning of the reality of what will likely happen to them.”

JeffVader's avatar

@holden The SJP episode was brilliant….. but not as funny as the Paris Hilton one :)

Ame_Evil's avatar

@dalepetrie I just want to expand upon this point a bit more. Basically in the episode, the major religion’s important figures – Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Joseph Smith, Krishna, and Lao Tzu are made fun of. The funny thing is, we don’t hear any death threats from the Mormons, the Taoists etc etc.

ucme's avatar

Dirka Dirka!!

Rufus_T_Firefly's avatar

Threats like this tend to make me a whole lot less tolerant of ‘backward religions’ in general. Religion of peace, my ass. It would appear that Muslims want to be able to control how everyone else on the planet views their chosen deity and when they lose the ability to control everyone, they threaten them with death.

Note to all Muslim extremists: It’s really quite simple, if you believe that it is wrong to depict or question your chosen god or beliefs, then you are absolutely right not to depict them, but it is insane and irrational to expect others to share the same sense of awe and reverence under threat of death. I can respect and defend your right to believe without being forced to adopt your beliefs.

Heck, I might even change my attitude, providing your religion makes that final step into the twenty-first century, stops abusing women and children, renounces any terrorist tendencies and stops proclaiming fatwas and jihads at the drop of a turban. Not everyone wants to believe as you do, nor should they be expected to. As it stands right now, you guys are starting to make fanatical Christian extremists look pretty damned good.

dalepetrie's avatar

@Ame_Evil – True. Of course, Muslim extremists tend to be more vocal about their intentions, while all religions have their extermists. Take Christianity alone, they may not broadcast their intentions to kill an abortion doctor before they do so. The religions themselves seem to advocate peace (turn the other cheek, etc.), it’s just the people who twist it around to try to make their unacceptable actions seem pallatable.

TexasDude's avatar

@Rufus_T_Firefly, that’s about how I look at it. Well said.

SeventhSense's avatar

@holden
I like how you try to find some logic in the minds of the fanatics LOL. Actually like Jesus there’s little real description of what he actually looked like.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

And if people would just wise up to how despicable and moronic it is and quite wasteing their Gray matter away watching it it would go the way of the dinasaurs, Frankie Smith, Soft Cell, and Kajagoogoo.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard Maybe between all the lowbrow bathroom humor, the foul language and such I mess the microscopic nugget of intellect it might have had, or I can bing my pressure washer to blast away all that s*** caked on that lone nugget if intellect. :o3|

dalepetrie's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central – FWIW, I’m college educated with a genius level IQ (not bragging, just stating facts), and South Park, though blunt and crude, is a VERY intelligent show. It is timely to the point of being cutting edge, and it pretty much provides a strong dose of common sense insight in every single show. It employes irony extremely well and it does about as good of a job in terms of satire as you’re ever going to find. I’ve found that among my peers, the smarter they are, the more they appreciate South Park. I’m guessing you are a bit prejudiced against the show, which is not that uncommon, but I can say I have some pretty high brow tastes as well, and South Park usually makes me think on a deeper philosophical level than almost any other show out there. Just sayin’

TexasDude's avatar

South Park is also avowedly libertarian

SeventhSense's avatar

@dalepetrie
Of course it’s clever but it’s not so much socially relevant satire as much as a deconstruction of society. It’s a sounding board for the egos of Trey and Matt. Their social conscience really leaves much to be desired and the show is really just a playground for their collective id. The basis of the humor is predominantly low brow with the “issue” thrown in as an afterthought for whatever reason. It’s a completely narcissistic, self serving deconstruction of the popular culture. No doubt that which they feel shunned from. And that’s the majority of those they lampoon: extremely popular, succesful or benevolent people. But that’s not to say I don’t enjoy them immensely at times. Oprah’s vagina with a gun? Priceless. Kenny on steroids? LMAO. But before you place them on a pedestal, remember that their antics are just the rantings of a couple creative, capitalist and wacky dudes and nothing more. All of us on the fringe free thinkers just get a kick out of their acidic wit.
“Team America Fuck Ya!”
P.S- College educated Genius….dude..come on…should I post my Summa Cum Laude degree in education or will that also “not be bragging?”

dalepetrie's avatar

@SeventhSense – I’ll agree with you inasmuch as I’ll agree that any artistic, creative person uses their creativity as an outlet for their own egos and agendas. But as I see it, the show isn’t as much about being “wacky” and throwing in a social message for good measure, but more rooted in, how do we point out the obvious in regards to this social issue while masking it in something ludicrous. I think there is an underlying brilliance to be able to mask one’s agenda (whether you like it or not) with something as anti-intellectual as what can seem to be very lowbrow on the surface.

I do not place them on a pedestal, I’m simply pointing out that they are making a point in a way that I believe it takes a lot of skill and intelligence to do. I see satire as one of the highest forms of humor, it is that level of cleverness to which I aspire in my own writing, and I think they are masters of this. This does not mean that I idolize them, only that I respect them, and I feel that to write them off as whiny outcasts, or purveyors of low brow crap really misses the ultimate point and does a disservice to what they are trying to do. I don’t think they’re just a couple of wacky dudes, I think they are wacky, but I think they possess a rare intelligence and skill, and I’m amazed at how they can be both so in your face blunt and thought provokingly indirect at the same time. No matter what, they get their point across, but they manage to do so on many levels and via many delivery methods…few posses such creative genius in my opinion.

As for my statement which you’re seeming to take as somehow conceited, let me clarify….I wasn’t a straight a student, I am no Stephen Hawking and I’m certain I’m nowhere near the smartest person on Fluther. When I say I’m not bragging, I mean it, I’m not prideful about these things, it give me no pleasure to point out my credentials…that is not what inspires it. Just as you seem to in my opinion mistake the intent of Parker and Stone, I think you too have misinterpreted my intent. My point was to say look, people who are neither stupid (as evidenced by higher than average IQ), nor ignorant (as evidenced by the ability to have obtained a college degree) find intelligence within the show. I can point to you as well, I’m you have shown that you are another educated, intelligent person who can see at least some cleverness and wit in what they do. My point was that one should not be surprised if people who are considered to be of greater than average intelligence profess a liking for the show, because it is intellectually stimulating enough on enough levels that it’s not just a bunch of drunken frat boys with IQs approaching their belt sizes who enjoy the show. I’m sure there are people on Fluther who have 10 more years of college than I do and/or 50 more IQ points…I’m not claiming to be some wunderkind or trying to act high and mighty and superior or looking for praise, I’m simply stating that by the tools we have in society to measure one’s inherent intelligence, I am considered to be more intelligent than the average person…not that it makes me “better”, but it does in my opinion make me qualified to say whether a particular television program is intelligently written or not. That’s all there is to it, please don’t read more into it than I intended, I am the farthest thing from a prideful person you will ever meet.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@dalepetrie Fortunately one doesn’t need an IQ of 126 and above to have and appreciate wisdom, tact, humor, and ethics. They have a show like that (as crappy as I think it is and many, many others) so they are not bricks. However their delivery of whatever message they are trying to give gets lost in all the asinine crap they embedded it in. It would be like a movie trying to make points but every time you turn at around some big tit blonde was loosing her top or some frat boys were spying on the girl’s shower. Dry humor is one of my fortes, and I can appreciate irony, parody, and satire. I think the way Married With Children and the Simpsons (which people I knew thought was filth} did it better by more sharper writing, jokes, and gags and not sliming to the lowest possible path. It is like Abbott & Costello “Who’s on 1st” or Bill Cosby’s “Bill Cosby Himself” if you can get people laughing and be funny with out having to go to sandbox vomiting, and fat gags, and things referring to poop and where it comes from then you got me. If you have to go for the crude path of least resistance then you don’t, be it South Park or any other show at the bottom off the cesspool keeping it company.

dalepetrie's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central – I don’t disagree with you, I’m a fan of all the things you mentioned as well, this is just a different approach imv. I simply feel that the crude style and blunt approach create an interesting disconnect which some choose to disparage the show as lacking any redemptive value. I simply think that it’s a bit prejudiced against a show like this because there’s more to the show than what is on the surface and to me it’s a lot more than poo jokes. I’m simply saying I can appreciate a show that has an intelligent message, regardless of whether that message is wrapped in multiple layers of dense symbolism, or is thrust violently onto the surface which consists of little more than scatological and shock value humor. The beauty of the show to me isn’t that you need to be of above average IQ to get it, to the contrary, it’s accessible to the lowest common denominator. The brilliance I see is in the ability to take the serious issues that are only generally worried about by the eggheads, and impart them in a manner so blunt and crude that anyone can get it. I don’t think you need to be smart to “get” the show, to the contrary, but I don’t think the show lacks intelligence, and my point is that I can see the underlying intelligence behind the crude veneer, I can see that it emanates from a higher intellectual plane than where it ends up. That’s all I meant, and yeah, it’s just my opinion. I’ve just always been a fan of using shock value to push the envelope of what is considered acceptable, and if nothing else, this show certainly does that.

mattbrowne's avatar

The two world wars were caused by countries with a Christian majority.

Or take a look at the list of countries sorted by intentional homicide rate. Among the top 30 countries, only 4 are majority Muslim: Sierra Leone, Somalia, Kazakhstan and Iraq. Here’s the list (most are majority Christian):

Honduras, Venezuela, Sierra Leone, El Salvador, Jamaica, Guatemala, Trinidad and Tobago, Angola, South Africa, Colombia, Belize, Somalia, Liberia, Brazil, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Ecuador, Russia, Swaziland, Panama, Paraguay, Nicaragua, Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Haiti, Suriname, Mexico, Iraq

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

deni's avatar

you kill trey parker…i kill you

SeventhSense's avatar

@dalepetrie
If I didn’t know you weren’t a hetero dude I’d say you were a starfucker but come on. Anyone who defends this stuff with that intensity should be on their payroll. World peace, the end of starvation, and equal rights are topics that warrant this level of attention. They’re not changing the world and satire at its best is vicious and able to discredit abusive people in power. Other than that it’s just vicious. We laugh of course but it’s not socially transformative in any significant way. And they are not doing anything new. It’s all been done. Unless of course one imagines that smarmy kids with an arsenal of new arrogance to add to the collective is progress. It’s a cartoon made by a couple of intelligent guys nothing more. I could write that material all day. It’s simply an anti popular culture and a exaggeration of stereotypes. Cartman as a Nazi, Token as the lone black guy, Canadians as puppet heads.. These are one line jokes and clever as social commentary ONCE. After that they just continue to maintain these stereotypes. To use them continually is a self indulgent running gag. Nobel prizes are not in the future here. It’s actually kind of sad that people feel compelled to defend this stuff. I think maybe we don’t want to recognize our own twisted nature when we are confronted with making a value judgment as to this stuff and that may be part of it. But it is twisted and it’s not social commentary just because a boy in a blue cap spits out a moral at the end of a show after a thorough character assassination of some helpless victim.
@dalepetrie
. Just as you seem to in my opinion mistake the intent of Parker and Stone
What do you imagine is their intent because I think I hit it right on the head? Perhaps you expressed an idealism that I used to possess. Years ago I realized why anyone pursues any path that continues to be financially profitable- MONEY. I’m afraid my naivete left me years ago. Psssst: “Guess why they have this site?”

dalepetrie's avatar

@SeventhSense – we’ll just have to agree to disagree here. Besides my original point, you agree with, that the show is created by intelligent people. Never thought Nobel prizes were in their future, I feel like you’re taking my thoughts on this show too far. I certainly wouldn’t equate this show with the extremes you mentioned of world peace, end of starvation and equal rights. I kind of think you’re putting words in my mouth and going a bit off the rails about it.

All I’m saying is I find the show to be intelligently written. Yes, there is a lot of dumb, crass, blunt humor, but I see more than just the kid in the cap at the end summing it all up, I see the whole show leading up to the point that kid eventually makes. I think there is social value, certainly not to the level of the civil rights movement or health care reform, but some social value nonetheless to pointing out the obviously ludicrous in our society as bluntly as they do. What I think the show does well is to point out the cognitive disconnect between what people are prone to believe, particularly within the members of our society who do not possess the intellectual capacity to laugh at anything that is now low brow, and what is really going on. I believe they employ irony, sarcasm and satire to make points that the masses simply aren’t going to grasp without some assistance. If anything, I’d suggest I’m far from idealistic on this, but highly cynical in what I believe this says about the “unwashed masses”.

To put it in plain English, I think there are a lot of stupid, ignorant fuckers out there who don’t grasp the obvious. Perhaps they don’t posses the ability of critical thinking, but more likely than not our dumbed-down culture has beaten it out of them, and if not the culture, then the fear tactics employed within our political system. When I see an episode of South Park, I get what their point is almost instantly, and say to myself, well, I already knew that. For me it’s not an education. I see the social value in what it represents to the people who essentially ARE the stereotypical easily led buffoons that populate the town. By using a truly one dimensional town populated with people who will fall for anything, they are able to exaggerate to great extremes what happens in our popular culture, while exaggerating to great extremes how people miss the point and react in counter-productive ways.

And I fully admit I laugh at the twisted humor. I’m a huge Family Guy fan as well, and that show’s as crass and disgusting and low brow as it gets, that show’s sole purpose is to entertain and shock, which have their own values to society. It’s a more non-sequeter from of humor, whereas I see South Park as a more ironic form of humor. But the thing is, if you’re not very bright, and you take things too literally, you are apt to be offended by this type of crassness…as I see it those of even average or above intelligence can usually see that these are jokes and are to be taken as such.

If you wonder why I spend time defending the show, really, I’m simply defending myself, it’s what I think about the show, it’s why I appreciate it, it’s the level on which it works. I think it does serve a purpose, some times that purpose is to mock the ridiculous, at other times its to push the envelope. Consider a much earlier predecessor to Eric Cartman, a character on which Cartman was admittedly somewhat based….Archie Bunker. All in the Family was a brilliant social satire, starring a bigoted old man in the lead role. But by making this bigoted old man likable and entertaining, and allowing the viewers to see that much of his distaste for others came not from a place of hatred, but of lack of understanding, this show helped tear down a lot of walls in our society. It pointed out the fundamental problems with Archie’s way of thinking, but by portraying it realistically as simply outdated, and not extremist (which was the stereotype), people got it. And I say the same holds for someone like Cartman.

Now, we live in a different time, and Archie Bunker is been there/done that…the positive social value of a show which soft pedals its message in a our 24 hour screamathon television world is completely nullified….if one wants to be heard, one needs to grab attention. And as such where a soft, realistic approach in terms of the characters, confronting extreme situations made a lot of sense at the time…now the formula is turned on it’s head. We need extreme characters imparting a realistic message about what is really going on. And I believe that pushing the envelope of free speech only allows us to be more frank in dealing with each other.

I’ll give one example from the show. Take the show where they said shit I forget how many times, while keeping a counter. By just continually forcing the word out in every possible place where it could fit, they were blunting the shock value of the word and showing that it was indeed just a word, not something to which we should have dedicated as much censorship over the years. And to really hammer home the point of how silly it really is to get up in arms about a combination of 4 letters that everyone uses, but somehow we can’t say on TV, or weren’t able to until now (what changed, it begs the question), they awakened the Knights in charge of Standards and Practices. They treated it as if it had existential consequences. I use this example, because I don’t even remember what Kyle said at the end to wrap it all up, I just remember seeing the point driven home so that no one could ignore it. And of course they went even more granular, pointing out how you could be censored for saying fag, but not if you actually were gay, which of course led Mr. Garrison to sing his “shitty, shitty fag fag” song. It was gratuitous, but that was the point…it’s just as arbitrary to overuse something as it is to underuse it.

Point is, I too could write the jokes all day if they were stand alone jokes, but to tie everything into this one point until you are beating a dead horse, to use every gag to advance the cognitive disconnect between reality and how people perceive, and to do so often in the form of a musical is in my opinion something which takes talent and intelligence, and is something that an intelligent person should be able to enjoy on a level beyond just the fart joke laden surface. That’s all I’m saying.

filmfann's avatar

@dalepetrie You know, I’ve learned something today.
Maybe the use of laughter can make you care about the underlying message.
Maybe the skillful employment of satire and irony can help people understand their own faults.
And just maybe toilet humor has a place in culture that should be valued.

TexasDude's avatar

@filmfann, I see what you did there ;)

dalepetrie's avatar

@filmfann – you made my point in about 1% of the words, thanks.

SeventhSense's avatar

@dalepetrie
I think we’ll first have to agree to agree on what we are disagreeing. I always find the in-defensibility of an outlook which is neither defense nor prosecution. I just attempt to find balance rather than hold a position. This seems to unsettle some people but I find having the rug pulled out from underneath me makes me think and appreciate different points of view. There’s no right or wrong in it.
I think that there are simply different tastes and one can’t discredit many folks who just don’t appreciate the irony and dark humor in South Park as much as they can understand the message. We can appreciate it but it doesn’t mean that if one doesn’t that they don’t get it. Some people just have different tastes. Some people are more conservative or whatever.

If one would smear shit on the walls to bring attention to the local sewage treatment plant or send pictures of bloody fetuses into your living room to protest abortion there are bound to be people offended. Likewise if everyone would use this type of expression we have a world which is covered with shit and bloody fetuses and the message would be lost in the medium. There are far more clever and subtle ways to bring attention to things than shock awe, crassness and satire. It’s just so old at this point and I seriously question the social conscience of our society at times by nature of these programs. They are really quite mean spirited as much as they are ironic. I suppose I try to see both sides.

dalepetrie's avatar

@SeventhSense – I get your points above completely. I guess the only thing I would add to my argument is this. If you make art, and it is not aesthetically pleasing to the masses, that doesn’t mean it’s not art. What makes it art is if it is an expression on something thought or felt by the artist. If the intended meaning behind the art, that is if what the intended meaning behind the art is can be said to be an intelligent meaning, then I believe that the art itself is imbued with that intelligence. And I believe any manner in which intelligent ideas are conveyed can be said to be of worth to society. Even if it takes the form of fart jokes. Could it be done more intelligently…no question it could. Could the same meaning be conveyed as effectively in a different way…almost certainly. I just don’t believe that this diminishes the value of what SP is, and I don’t think it does justice to the show to write it off as a huge pile of crap with a couple of hidden gold flecks, I see it as more, perhaps as you said that is my taste. I would just like to say, take it for what it is, don’t try to make more out of it than that, but conversely, don’t try to belittle it because of your opinion of it based on the surface alone, that’s judging a book by its cover. Not trying to put these guys on a pedestal or defend them at any cost, just saying, it is what it is, and for what it is, I think it’s effective.

SeventhSense's avatar

@dalepetrie
Whatever happened to this show? Now that was some fun adult humor

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@SeventhSense Yeah, that was smartly writen. I thought just to check it out and found it addicting and there was no farting, barfing, poo jokes, buger eating or any of that bathroom gutter humor and it WAS still interesting. Guess it was over many people’s head because they can’t get it if it wasn’t introduced by a fart.

SeventhSense's avatar

I loved that show. Excellent writing.

dalepetrie's avatar

I rather enjoyed that one too, had a lot of great guests on it.

Rufus_T_Firefly's avatar

I never really cared much about Dr. Katz. It was a smart show, well-casted and the writing was okay, but it had no hook to draw you in and the jumpy animation was a little unnerving. I’d still take the raw edginess and shock value of South Park over that.

Crashsequence2012's avatar

This situation and the recent heckling of Daniel Tosh is proof that living normally in a group possessing no sense of humor is untenable.

As long as these artists can safely ply their craft, America, as an idea, is still intact.

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