Social Question

chelle21689's avatar

Was what Zimmerman did justifiable? (Other side of the story)

Asked by chelle21689 (5206 points ) March 27th, 2012

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-conservative-in-charleston-sc/zimmerman-was-on-the-ground-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/anonymous-witness-police-used-tells-local-news-trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman/

http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.yahoo.com%2Fclaims-cast-trayvon-martin-aggressor-112355425.html&h=CAQHR0s_pAQFzdV72KWyxNIlsFfcLUX2UZTYKF_nyahrQ2g

The news media apparently left out that Zimmerman was first attacked and having his head beaten on the side walk by Trayvon according to witnesses, the voices screamed of help were not Trayvon (although one article says it is), and Trayvon is a big kid and Zimmernman is 5’9.

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137 Answers

chyna's avatar

We will never know the full and whole truth of this situation. But I still think Zimmerman took his neighborhood watch job too seriously. He thought he saw a danger and at that point his job was to contact police, not follow a suspect. So no matter what, Zimmerman did not do what he was supposed to do. If he had not been following Trayvon, none of this would’ve happened.

syz's avatar

I wasn’t there, so I won’t make a decision based on partial information. It’s a tragic situation, and I hope that it will be fully and fairly investigated.

(For any person not directly involved in either the event or the investigation of the event to lay blame on either party is irresponsible.)

tom_g's avatar

Like others have said, we’ll never know exactly what happened. However, regardless of how it really played out, Zimmerman was a guy that was walking around with a gun. He used it, now someone is dead. I’m not sure what kind of situation I would need to read in the “other side” stories for this to be justifiable.

Sunny2's avatar

I think that what @syz says is very much to the point. There are too many versions of what may have happened. What about the girl friend on the phone hearing it all? If this had happened in Minnesota instead of the deep South there may not be the suspicion of racist testimony of the police. Too much possibility of contamination of the truth on all sides. Wait and stay open minded.

Rock2's avatar

What do you think of people who jump to conclusions without knowing all of the facts?

This is why we have trials, so that all of the evidence can be brought in and cross examined before judgments can be made.

chelle21689's avatar

I admit I heard one side of the story and jumped on the bandwagon like everyone believing Trayvon Martin was innocent. Then I felt stupid as I learned another side of the story, and now I’m questioning both sides. lol

SuperMouse's avatar

My first thoughts on hearing those reports were 1) What took them so long to surface, and 2) They felt reminiscent of a defense attorney slandering a rape victim to skew the outcome of a trial.

@Rock2 the whole point is that there needs to be a trial. Whatever happened, there is a voice on the 911 recording asking Zimmerman not to follow Martin and there is one dead youngster.

wilma's avatar

My daughter who lives in the Sanford Florida area said that, from the beginning, they were getting more of these kinds of details in their local news, but that none of the “other side” was being reported nationally. When I commented to her that it seemed quite clear that the kid had been targeted, she replied “from what is on the national news it would seem so, but from what is on our local news, there is a lot more to the story and we need to reserve judgement until the facts are sorted out.” I guess she was right.

marinelife's avatar

Nothig would have ever happened if Zimmerman had no (against the directive of the police) followed Trayvon and hassled him for nothing more than walking down a sidewalk in a hoodie.

chelle21689's avatar

@Marinelife, agreed. Maybe even Trayvon had his reason to attack.

jca's avatar

I feel exactly like @marinelife. If Zimmerman had listened to the person that told him not to follow Martin, we’d not be discussing this today.

If I went out and followed my neighbor, I’d be looking for trouble and I’d probably find it. Neighborhood Watch is supposed to watch and report, not follow and confront.

DominicX's avatar

The problem with this whole thing from the start is that, yes, we need a trial, but there wasn’t going to be a trial because the police initially thought Zimmerman had done nothing wrong. And that’s why this case got so much attention, because a lot of people assumed that if the races had been reversed and all the other factors remained the same, Zimmerman would’ve been arrested on the spot.

mazingerz88's avatar

Justifiable? You brought a gun to a meeting that should not have taken place if not for your own volition then you ended up killing someone with your gun because you are a wimp when it comes to a fight? No.

Blackberry's avatar

Nope, for the reasons stated above.

funkdaddy's avatar

Next time you’re walking somewhere imagine someone driving up behind you in a car, pulling to the curb and then getting out to chase you down.

What exactly was the kid supposed to do? He didn’t know who the guy was.

Put in the same situation, if I didn’t think I could get away, I’d fight as well. If you shoot me, that’s a crime.

I don’t care if you’re winning the fight or losing the fight. Don’t care what race either party is, don’t care if I had skittles or cocaine, don’t care who’s larger, who’s older, or who knows kung-fu, don’t care if the guy with the gun is a gang member, police officer, neighborhood watch, or a minister.

If he chased someone down, got into a fight, and then shot him, there’s no way to justify that with details like those above, they don’t change the basics.

mazingerz88's avatar

Apparently, Zimmerman told the police that night that he turned back, Treyvon followed him and overpowered him. He should have shot himself for being a total idiot.

Rock2's avatar

I’ll repeat. All anybody knows is what’s been in the news. You don’t know what went on. Why so anxious to make up a conclusion?

funkdaddy's avatar

@Rock2 – it seems most have been pretty qualified with their answers so far, and you’re not the only saying we don’t yet have all the facts. Are you against the discussion happening at all? I’m not sure what your objection is.

Aethelflaed's avatar

No. Even if Martin did start beating him up, that justifies Zimmerman throwing a couple punches back, not shooting him dead with a gun.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I can’t wait to hear the girlfriend’s testimony. She was there the whole time. One news report says that she heard Trayvon ask “Why are you following me?” then the phone got knocked to the ground. That right there could prove to be the deciding point.

From what I’ve heard, I think Zimmerman was an overzealous law enforcement wannabe, the kind who would be rejected by the marines (my supposition only!) I think he was fulfilling a Superman, Savior fantasy and…

bkcunningham's avatar

There is a grand jury that will hear the evidence and make the decision as to whether or not what Zimmerman did was legal or worthy of a charges and prosecution. We don’t know what happened at this point. Law enforcement, including the prosecutors aren’t going to release every detail to the public at this point either. That isn’t how the judicial system works.

I’m shocked and mad as hell that the New Black Panthers can put a bounty on the man. What the hell is wrong with this picture?

SuperMouse's avatar

@bkcunningham there was a great bit on The Daily Show last night about the New Black Panthers bounty. You are absolutely right about that situation.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t understand why reasonable, intelligent black people don’t disassociate themselves from people like the Rev. Sharpton and idiots like the Black Panthers. They don’t do anything but make “their people” their words look bad.

josie's avatar

I doesn’t matter. Certain events and news stories are engineered to appeal to a constituency of self percieved victims. When it happens, the truth is never relevent.
Having said it, it is a real problem when an unarmed teenager gets shot by a dude who is not a cop but who happens to be armed and “watching over” the neighborhood. C’mon.

filmfann's avatar

Too often I have seen how people carrying guns put themselves in the position to need to use them.

ETpro's avatar

Left-wing media condemning Zimmerman is no more credible than right-wing media claiming he was totally justified. There’s a black guy now making the talk show circuit who claims he was an acquaintance of Zimmerman, not a close friend, and that he felt so strongly that Zimmerman was getting a bad rap that he quit his job and is traveling around the US to defend him, as he KNOWS Zimmerman is innocent. He admits he hadn’t even talked to Zimmerman in the past month except this past weekend when Zimmerman’s lawyer arranged a phone call. He says what he learned in that call convinces him even more, but he refuses to disclose ANY details of the conversation. It’s pretty clear this guy is nothing more than a paid shill some right wing slush fund, perhaps the NRA, is paying to talk up Zimmerman’s innocence.

There is now a special prosecutor on the case. She says that a Grand Jury has been scheduled, but if there is enough evidence available before the Grand Jury convenes, she may move independently. Let’s not try this in the court of public opinion Let’s let the criminal justice system do what it is designed to do.

dabbler's avatar

Strange that if Zimmerman was “having his head beaten on the side walk” he sustained no bruises or cuts or scrapes to his head. None.

And IF Trayvon actually did that the same law to which Zimmerman is appealing would have made it legal because Zimmerman was following him and looked menacing. Trayvon’s call with his girlfriend bears that out, Trayvon was anxious about the weird guy tracking him.
By that Florida statute that’s enough for Trayvon to defend himself with whatever means he saw fit.

bkcunningham's avatar

@dabbler, the Sanford Police Department verified that the Orlando Sentinel’s account of Zimmerman’s wounds were including in the police report submitted to the state’s Attorney General’s office; including a broken nose and bleeding from he back of his head, were true. The PD also verified the reports of two eyewitnesses who saw Zimmerman on the ground screaming for help with Martin on top of him. The police report also reportedly said Zimmerman’s jacket was wet and coverered in grass as if he’d been lying on the ground.

Rock2's avatar

@funkdaddy
You can’t make a fair judgment until you get all of the facts not just what the TV networks tell you. What’s the hurry?

Leanne1986's avatar

I don’t think it was justifiable at all. Like others have said, Zimmerman should have taken the advise not to follow Trayvon right from the beginning but instead, it seems (in my opinion at least) that he had a power rush and decided to ignore that advise. No one should have died in this situation. I can’t help wondering if this was a racially motivated assumption (that Trayvon was up to know good), I know everyone is saying it was at this stage, or if it was simply someone drunk on power seeing things that weren’t actually happening because he was so desperate to “protect” the community and he would have picked on anyone that night?!

mazingerz88's avatar

Zimmerman referred to Treyvon as a “nigger” in the recorded call. And people want to be fair with him? And what about people putting a bounty on him? Didn’t he himself personally put a bounty on Treyvon and got it himself. He took a life. Wake up, folks. Treyvon did not bash his car, pulled him out, forcing him to defend his life.

SuperMouse's avatar

Our entire class yesterday, wherein I am one of six or so non-traditional students, consisted of a discussion of this situation. I was impressed with most of the younger students having a very clear grasp of the reality that this is indeed a racial situation. One other non-traditional student tried to convince the entire class that it had nothing to do with Trayvon’s race.

chyna's avatar

@SuperMouse I think it is racial also. I don’t think that a guy looking like Justin Beiber walking down the same street would’ve gotten a second look from Zimmerman.

Facade's avatar

No. It’s never justifiable to shoot and kill someone who isn’t threatening you.

chelle21689's avatar

@Facade, did you read the articles?

Dutchess_III's avatar

@mazingerz88 Several people, law enforcement etc. have listened to the tape and none of them can say whether or not the “n” word was ever used, so that part is still unsubstantiated.

I keep watching and for me it all comes down to Zimmerman should have never followed him. That would make anyone feel threatened, and 17 year olds aren’t always known for their calm, cool, clearheaded judgements under pressure. To that end, Trayvon’s defense falls under the “Stand your ground” law. He should get first dibs at it since he was threatened first.

bkcunningham's avatar

Perhaps, @Dutchess_III. There are going to be a lot of armchair quarterbacks, as they say. If Martin hadn’t gotten suspended, if he’d stopped instead of running, if Zimmerman was sick on this particular day…I think it is sad that the teen lost his life. I doubt there are many people who are happy with the events of that day. To add insult to injury is the knee jerk reaction of people making it a racial issue or a gun control issue before all of the facts are known. Regardless, it is a tragedy for everyone involved.

funkdaddy's avatar

A couple of articles that aren’t about interpretation but just consolidating what’s known

A collection of public documents in Trayvon Martin shooting on CNN

What witnesses say in the Trayvon Martin case also on CNN

You can listen to the 911 calls yourself on the Sanford Website (click “Trayvon Martin Investigation” to get there)

mazingerz88's avatar

@bkcunningham I just don’t get you. Perhaps if Martin did not get suspended? If he stopped instead of running? It’s not just sad that a teen lost his life. It’s outrageous. And only because this douchebag followed him. C’mon.

Perhaps if there was no need for any neighborhood watch because apparently that neighborhood was dangerous? Perhaps if it was a black neighborhood watchman who followed a white teen in a hood? We are suppose to wait for proper procedures now when it took 3 days even before those shitty cops took the time to check who Martin was? Perhaps if Zimmerman followed instructions to stay put. Well he didn’t.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@mazingerz88 I think we should wait to jump to any conclusions until their has been a full investigation.
Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and the back of his head, the police report said.

“I was yelling for someone to help me, but no one would help me,” Zimmerman told police.

SOURCE

mazingerz88's avatar

@SpatzieLover Yes. Truth is I’m just ranting. But I’m willing to bet my life that if Zimmerman was black and Martin was white, they would tear that neighborhood apart.

And the media isnt helping. They just released a video of Zimmernan arriving that night at the precinct. You decide if he looked hurt. This “trial” by media is not helping my nerves any. Goodluck to that Grand Jury.

ETpro's avatar

@bkcunningham The video obtained today by ABC news shows Zimmerman arriving at police headquarters . Click the lower right to full-screen the video. Zimmerman has no broken nose. There is no visible injury on the back of his head. There is no blood visible on his skin or his clothing. There are no grass stains. About the only thing that might be true in the original police report is that the back of his red jacket may be damp or wet. In short, the police lied. Now we need to find out why.

chyna's avatar

@ETpro Wow, this police department needs to be under scrutiny. To blatantly cover up a murder of a child should be immediate dismissal of the entire department.

SuperMouse's avatar

@ETpro he doesn’t look damaged at all to me. Also, it is pretty telling that the officers were not wearing gloves. If he had been as bloody as some people want us to think he was, they would have been wearing gloves.

filmfann's avatar

@SuperMouse The cops not wearing gloves speaks volumes! Did you notice that on your own, or did someone else point that out?

SuperMouse's avatar

@filmfann I noticed it as I was watching the video.

Leanne1986's avatar

@mazingerz88 I wasn’t aware that Zimmerman had used a derogatory term towards Trayvon.

jca's avatar

On the audio tape, he calls him a “coon.”

mazingerz88's avatar

@Leanne1986 I watched it on the TV news. Which hardly gives it a lot of credibility. I understand that oftentimes, in the heat of a shark media news frenzy for ratings, producers would allow unverified news reports to be put on air.

But if down the line it turns out to be true, it should make for a compelling point for Martin’s lawyer to make. That is, if it goes to a trial.

@ETpro Just wondering but, could it be that they could claim Zimmerman was already treated at the scene by medical personnel before they brought him to the station? I know, even if that happened, based on quotes from Zimmerman as to how severe Martin beat him up, indications of some form of injury should have showed in that video. He had nary a wound dressing nor signs of painful gait.

Rock2's avatar

Why such concern over this case?
The majority of black murder victims are killed by black men.
Why doesn’t that matter more than this case?

Facade's avatar

@chelle21689 No, but I’ve read plenty of others. There’s no justifying what he did, and he should be prosecuted for it. Many people are very upset with him, and although I don’t agree with this type of response, I don’t doubt that there will be backlash if he isn’t punished by the law.

funkdaddy's avatar

@Rock2 -

1) Zimmerman was the self appointed guardian of the neighborhood
2) He identified someone as a threat based on the fact that he was young, black, and walking in the rain
3) He followed and then shot that person
4) He wasn’t arrested or charged

So in short, someone shot and killed someone else based on what they looked like. And the law decided that was OK.

Kind of a big deal.

Rock2's avatar

@funkdaddy
Trayvon’s death, while tragic, is only one of thousands every day in America.

In Florida several white people have been killed by black men in the past few years.
Why wasn’t there made a big fuss about that? Was Trayvon’s life more important than their lives? Where were Al Sharpton and Jessy Jackson then?

Black men kill other black men in Detroit on a regular basis. Why aren’t the news outlets making a big deal about that? Don’t they/ you/ care about those deaths? Where were Al Sharpton and Jessy Jackson then?

I believe that in America there are some people want to stir up racial tension for political gain before the coming Presidential election. In other words, Democrats want to use it fire up their base.

Don’t take the bait. Don’t them manipulate them.

tom_g's avatar

@Rock2 – Slow down. “Take the bait”? “Sharpton/Jackson”? I don’t watch corporate media, so maybe I’m not aware of what’s going on right now. But are you saying that it’s likely that people who are upset about guns and vigilantism are somehow supportive of other gun violence in the U.S.? I’m not following you at all.

I’m not interested in living in a country filled with a bunch of gun-toting cowboys. What’s this have to do with Democrats, Sharpton, or supposed apathy towards other gun violence? Huh?

tom_g's avatar

@Rock2 – Also, I’m re-reading your comment, and it sounds like you are referencing a time or times where a black man killed a white man and he admitted it and walked. I need a reference to this incident(s). Thanks. My outrage would be the same, but I think it’s fair that you provide the incident details.

mazingerz88's avatar

@Rock2 Those black men who killed other black men. Do you even know where they are-? What is your guess, jail-? I bet they were put in jail faster than you can say Al Sharpton.

Rock2's avatar

@tom_g
Things go deeper than you think.

@mazingerz88
You can look up the details. I’m sure they were given a fair trial (or maybe plea barganed). I’m sure you want to give George Zimmerman the same opportunity.

Ask yourself: “Why don’t I know about those cases?” and “Why is my outrage so great for this case?” and “Do I automatically assume that America is a country filled with racists?” and “Why don’t I get more outraged about black on black crime?” Don’t I care about that?”

Facade's avatar

@Rock2 The race thing comes up because of what’s known about Zimmerman. Trayvon was an unarmed child. That’s what makes this horrible.

funkdaddy's avatar

@Rock2 You’ll understand if I don’t look to you to be my moral compass.

Rock2's avatar

@Facade
So killing an unarmed adult isn’t as bad?

@funkdaddy
If more people think like I do more black lives would be saved.

AshlynM's avatar

My biggest problem is I don’t see how Zimmerman can claim self defense when he was the one who called 911 and volunatrily followed Martin. You have to wonder if he would’ve done the same thing if Martin had been white.

Rock2's avatar

@AshlynM
There had been a lot of roberies in Zimmerman’s neighborhood. Why not wait until more information comes out.

jca's avatar

@Rock2: Unfortunately, because this was not properly investigated immediately, Zimmerman had and has time to think about his story and spin it how he wants, as opposed to if it were investigated properly right away, evidence would have been collected to back up what he says or to contradict what he says.

ETpro's avatar

@mazingerz88 Good question. The facts emerging say no. Let’s look at the timeline. At 6:54 PM, Trayvon Martin’s girl friend called him on his cell phone. They talked for 18 minutes. Near the end of the conversation, Martin expressed concern to her that he was being followed. He bagan to run

At 7:00 PM, Zimmerman called 911. The police dispatcher told him not to follow the person, that police were on their way. You can hear him panting. He is running, chasing Martin, and he ignores the police instructions to back off. Note, that wasn’t a lawful order. He was within his rights, but that decision of his definitely lead to whatever violent confrontation ensued. His camp is claiming Martin pursued him, but all the verifiable facts indicate that is a lie.

At 7:12, Trayvon’s earphones fell out as he was running, and the call with his girlfriend dropped.

At 7:17, the police arrived to find Trayvon dead.

At 7:51, you see Zimmerman in the police video being nonchalantly escorted into the Sanford Police Department, just 34 minutes after police arrived at the scene of the shooting.

Zimmerman’s father claims he was being beaten to death by Martin, and that at the last moment he moved his head to the grass to prevent it being slammed onto the concrete by the teen one more time. His nose was broken. Independent EMTs listening to that have commented that they would have bandaged lacerations to stop bleeding, put a neck brace on Zimmerman, and immediately transported him to an Emergency Room had he complained of or exhibited any such injuries. They would have been concerned with concussion or with fluid buildup or bleeding inside his skull—a life threatening condition.

The fact that none of that happened, that Zimmerman shows no such wounds, and that in just 34 minutes from the police arriving to investigate a murder he showed up walking gingerly with no apparent injuries or even stains on his clothes makes it pretty clear to me that Zimmerman, his dad, and the Sanford Police are lying.

It is also informative that while the lead police investigator wanted to charge Zimmerman with manslaughter, the State’s Attorney drove 50 miles from his home at that time of night to tell the Sanford Police not to press charges. Who told him to do that? How did he have enough facts in hand to make that decision so quickly? Something is rotten and the smell of it reeks.

ETpro's avatar

@mazingerz88 It makes things look pretty bad for Mr. Zimmerman.

Aethelflaed's avatar

@Rock2 Racial tensions exist every single day. Not just during elections, not just when someone’s trying to stir up shit that isn’t there, every. single. day. At least someone’s mentioning it with Martin and Zimmerman.

tom_g's avatar

@Rock2: “Things go deeper than you think.”

Your comment got cut off right after the above sentence. Because clearly you wouldn’t have just typed that, clicked “Answer”, sat back, and said to yourself, “nailed it!”. I’m interested to read the insight into how “deep” things go. Thanks!

Rock2's avatar

@Aethelflaed
Ever heard of a “sell fullfilled prophecy”.

@tom_g
I don’t know what happent to that comment.
There are people who work for the Democratic Party 24/7/365 with the sole purpose of doing what is called “opposition research”. They make up narratives to support their side and denegrate the other side. They are supported by the major media who are liberal Democrats. They have been sucessful in getting people to believe that Republicans are against blacks and that America is a racist country where everyone is against blacks. The Trayvon incident supports that narraitive so they run with it. Of course Sharpton and Jackson make their living off of it. They try to make it black against white even though it wasn’t. You are being played

tom_g's avatar

@Rock2 – I’m not sure if you’re being serious, but I’ll bite…

@Rock2: “There are people who work for the Democratic Party 24/7/365 with the sole purpose of doing what is called “opposition research”. They make up narratives to support their side and denegrate the other side.”

Yep. It’s called politics. Swap in “Republican Party” or “Fox News” and the same thing applies. So…?

@Rock2: “They are supported by the major media who are liberal Democrats.”

Well, that’s just false – and a diversion. Mass media is corporate, with corporate interests being promoted.

@Rock2: “They have been sucessful in getting people to believe that Republicans are against blacks and that America is a racist country where everyone is against blacks.”

Where are you getting this? The Republican’s stated agenda and policies are contrary to the interests of African Americans, among other people. Are you claiming that Republicans don’t get enough support from the African American community because of a liberal mass media conspiracy to lie about what Republicans propose and legislate?

@Rock2: “The Trayvon incident supports that narraitive so they run with it. Of course Sharpton and Jackson make their living off of it. They try to make it black against white even though it wasn’t. You are being played”

I already told you that I don’t watch corporate media, so I have yet to see any of this, including Sharpton and Jackson. So, exactly how am I “being played”?

Step back for a minute and consider some of the things that people are saying above in this thread. There are reasonable people explaining why they feel a certain way about this case. You seem to be ignoring their arguments, and brushing them off because they are merely brainwashed (or “played”) by the “liberal media” or Democrats. Do you think it’s possible that a non-Democrat person, like myself, who doesn’t watch tv can come up with a position about this case that is not the result of “being played”? If the answer is “no”, then why are you even talking with us?

Rock2's avatar

@tom_g
I disagree with all of your counter points.

If we were talking face to face I would go into all of the proof of what I say however I don’t think we can resolve this piece by piece on this blog.

I’ve been watching politics for many decades and I see what I see. I see that you have your mind made up. Just do me a favour and think about what I said once in a while.

AshlynM's avatar

@ETpro Thanks for putting things in perspective. It certainly doesn’t put Zimmerman in a good light. After having read your timeline of events, it makes me think Zimmerman had no reason to believe Martin was doing anything wrong, although we don’t have the answer to that question. Even if there had been a string of robberies in Zimmerman’s neighborhood, what exactly was Martin doing that caused Zimmerman to think he looked suspicious and ultimately take his life?

The news doesn’t always report the whole story, which to me, is a bad move on their part. It makes people jump to conclusions and they immediately want to take sides, form mobs, get all riled up.

I don’t know exactly how neighborhood watches work, but common sense tells me neighborhood watch members should never take matters into their own hands, regardless of what the situation might be.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I had a post that isn’t here now. Probably due to my stupid computer issues, but it was directed to @bkcunningham, who said ”..if he (Trayvon) had stopped running…” would YOU have stopped running if there was some strange, heaky freaky guy following you? Would you have stopped running, turned around and said, “What are your intentions? Robbery? Murder? Rape? Please let me know so I can know if I need to start running again.” It’s not like Zimmerman was a police officer. Trayvon had no idea who the guy was or what he wanted.

bkcunningham's avatar

@Dutchess_III, if I was afraid while walking through a residential neighborhood, I would have stopped at a house and asked for help or called the police on my cellphone instead of talking to my girlfriend.

dabbler's avatar

“called the police” I’m not so sure this is something a young black man thinks about for protection. And considerring the ways the police in that town have acted it’s easy to think they would not have been very concerned for him.

bkcunningham's avatar

Why wouldn’t a young black man think of calling the police for help? The young, and old black men and women I know would call the police first thing if they needed help in a situation where they felt threatened or needed assistance.

Also, before I start getting beaten up on for my comment, @Dutchess_III produced only a portion of my response in her question. The entire response, not just the one part taken out of context, was, “Perhaps, @Dutchess_III. There are going to be a lot of armchair quarterbacks, as they say. If Martin hadn’t gotten suspended, if he’d stopped instead of running, if Zimmerman was sick on this particular day…I think it is sad that the teen lost his life. I doubt there are many people who are happy with the events of that day. To add insult to injury is the knee jerk reaction of people making it a racial issue or a gun control issue before all of the facts are known. Regardless, it is a tragedy for everyone involved.”

dabbler's avatar

“The young, and old black men and women I know would call the police first thing if they needed help in a situation where they felt threatened or needed assistance.” I’m very glad to hear your city is a place where blacks and presumably other minorities are comfortable to trust the police, thank God there are some. It is unfortunately still Not true in a lot of cities.

In New York, and LA, for example, it’s common for blacks to get stopped by the police for “driving while black” or “walking while black” —that’s of course not an official reason, it’s just the reality. If you’ve had experiences like that you might not think of calling the police when you feel threatened.

SuperMouse's avatar

@bkcunningham, I have to agree with @dabbler, I am not convinced calling the police would be the first choice of most 17 year-old boys, add to that his race and it is easy for me to see why he didn’t dial 911.

To me the only part of this that has to do with race is that I really believe that if Trayvon Martin had been white, Mr. Zimmerman would not have chosen to follow and harass him. IMO, the fact that Mr. Zimmerman was not going to be charged until there was a public outcry has less to do with race then with Florida’s wacky “Stand Your Ground” law.

bkcunningham's avatar

I’ve been out of the loop with the news this week while entertaining company, @SuperMouse. Did Zimmerman get charged with a crime?

jca's avatar

@bkcunningham: He was not charged with a crime, but there is a “new” investigation, new prosecutor looking into it all, and the police chief stepped down “temporarily.”

Ron_C's avatar

@bkcunningham “Zimmerman’s jacket was wet and coverered in grass as if he’d been lying on the ground.” So the police cleaned him up and gave him dry clothes before taking him to the station? I’ve seen mug shots and pictures of victims taken at hospitals; they are never cleaned up. What makes Zimmerman such a special case?

bkcunningham's avatar

I didn’t know that the police cleaned him up, @Ron_C. How do you know that? If you are basing your question on the video you posted, let me ask you this. How did Zimmerman get to the police station? Did he ride in a vehicle? Perhaps the moisture and grass came off his leather jacket on the vehicle seat. Who knows? That is why I advocate allowing a grand jury make a decision, not the news media. What do you think about the edited audio tape that NBC
s Today Show, I think that who is was, presented? They were called on it and made an apology. The producer should have his ass in a sling for that little bit of trickery.

SpatzieLover's avatar

I’ve seen the clearer version of that police video on CNN. Zimmerman had a large scalp gash & looked wet/messy @Ron_C. I am in no way supportive of what the guy did.Just reporting what I saw.

SuperMouse's avatar

I still go back to my original question, if Zimmerman was broken and bloodied why isn’t a single police officer wearing gloves?

Ron_C's avatar

I do not want to prejudge Zimmerman but some things are very strange. I saw a video tape where the police brought him to the station in handcuffs. The reporter said that the tape was about a half hour after the incident. There may have been a mark in the back of Zimmerman’s head but his clothes looked clean, dry, and very neat. There was no apparent blood or moisture in the film.

I’ve taken smacks in the nose and it bleeds like a bitch. There is no way that you can keep clean in that circumstance. Zimmerman may or may not be guilty of breaking any law but I would bet that the Sanford police are up to something. I believe that the Old South is alive and well in Sanford Florida.

bkcunningham's avatar

Is it just police in the south you don’t trust, @Ron_C? Or police in general. The Old South, as you say probably wouldn’t have covered up a crime scene for a Hispanic man. I’m happy that a special prosecutor has been brought in and that the chief of the Sanford PD stepped aside to allow someone else to conduct the invesigation. I thought this would make people happy. Apparently not. There’s a conspiracy theorist around every corner.

bkcunningham's avatar

@SuperMouse, police reports said that Zimmerman received medical attention at the scene and that Zimmerman didn’t want to be transported to a medical facility. Perhaps the EMTs on the scene cleaned up the blood in order to access his injuries. I think all of the recent questions would be good questions for the grand jury to ask. I sure hope the people on the grand jury will be as smart as all of us.

Ron_C's avatar

@bkcunningham I don’t like conspiracy theories because they are usually figments of people’s imagination. Mostly what happens is that a number of stupid people do things for their own reasons and they don’t have enough imagination to consider the consequences.

From what I understand, the police department has a history of abusing people. As for Zimmerman, hispanics and black people can be just as narrow minded as white people.

And, no, I don’t trust southern police.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@SpatzieLover Can you provide us with a link to the clearer vid of Zimmerman that shows his injury?

SpatzieLover's avatar

Zimmerman will be charged
@Dutchess_III The one I saw was on CNN you can see it on the Net

bkcunningham's avatar

Spoke on the condition of anonymity. I’d have their ass if I were Corey.

bkcunningham's avatar

What was up with Zimmerman’s attorneys. Was that weird or what?

SpatzieLover's avatar

Bizarre @bkcunningham. My husband & I put on the networks last night to see if anyone could make any sense of it for us…no one did. They all had odd responses. WTF is with Hannity?
I feel like we entered Bizzarro world somewhere during this case.

bkcunningham's avatar

Now Hannity is part of the case. From a journalistic stance, what do you think about that?

SpatzieLover's avatar

The entire case has been handled wrong from the beginning.

I think Hannity wants the guy to get off free and clear, so he just decided to get involved to muddle it up even more. If I were Hannity’s boss, he’d be out on his ass. There is a complete lack of journalistic integrity from his actions. His opinion was one thing. Once he put it into action, he fried himself (as far as I’m concerned).

BTW: My husband thinks the defense lawyers were putting on an act to make it look as though Zimmerman is insane. I think it’s probably the angle they’re using. Make him appear unstable.

ETpro's avatar

@SpatzieLover Journalistic Integrity and Shawn Hannity in the same sentence? That’s laughable. The guy not only boasts on air of maxing out donations to partisan politicians, the fundraisers for them on air and in person. In any real news organization, even a hint of such flagrant bias and the guy would be gone. Only on Faux “News” is such lunacy possible. “Fair and balanced.” my ass!

SpatzieLover's avatar

Trust me @ETpro I chuckled as I wrote it. I LOLed when I heard it on the news last night ;) He made the entire situation even more out there than it already was.

mazingerz88's avatar

Can’t wait till Zimmerman calls Sarah Palin. Heh heh heh.

Dutchess_III's avatar

To answer the question. No. What Zimmerman did was NOT justified. But if Trayvon punched Zimmerman and beat his head on the ground, Trayvon WAS justified in doing that, under the “Stand Your Ground Law.”

bkcunningham's avatar

Someone told me something today about the case and I haven’t bothered to verify whether it is true. Perhaps someone could link it for a lazy old woman. They said Zimmerman made an appearance in court and said two words. Yes, sir. Or No sir. Can’t remember which.

And…the checking out part. The affidaviate filed charging him gave cause as being that Martin’s mother said it was his voice in the background of the 911 tape of a female neighbor calling with her husband in the background. The tape where she is begging her husband to go away from the windows.

SpatzieLover's avatar

Very informative @Dutchess_III ;P

bkcunningham's avatar

Does he even speak English, @SpatzieLover?
Disclaimer: I am relaxing after a month of guests and small people who whine.

SpatzieLover's avatar

Definitely @bkcunningham. It’s not a lot of words, but I didn’t even here an accent.

bkcunningham's avatar

I just needed affirmation, @SpatzieLover. thnx

ETpro's avatar

@bkcunningham Zimmerman is not bilingual. He only speaks English. And not only did Martin’s family say that is his voice. Several voice experts certified to testify in court listened to the screams and to voice samples and said they could definitively rule out the screams being from Zimmerman.

bkcunningham's avatar

@ETpro, I hadn’t read about the certified voice experts. I read that Martin’s father said it wasn’t his son’s voice.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It sure sounded like a “kid’s” voice, and not an adult man’s. It was absolutely heart breaking. I have to wonder what in the hell Zimmerman was doing to the kid.

bkcunningham's avatar

We will all know the answer to that and many other questions when Zimmerman has his day in court, @Dutchess_III.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Part of me wants to just beat the shit out of him….another part of me feels sorry for him. I don’t think he’s a “bad”, evil person. Something just went terribly, terribly wrong and his life will never be the same. Ever.

ETpro's avatar

@bkcunningham Martin’s parents said it was his voice. Zimmerman’s dad claimed it was his son’s voice. We now know who lied.

@Dutchess_III I completely agree.

bkcunningham's avatar

How do we now know who lied, @ETpro?

Here is the news report where Trayvon Martin’s father initially told police it wasn’t Trayvon’s voice on the 911 tape yelling for help.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/orlandowesh-16122564/sanford-police-speak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html#crsl=%252Fvideo%252Forlandowesh-16122564%252Fsanford-police-speak-out-in-trayvon-martin-case-28640523.html

ETpro's avatar

@bkcunningham We know who lied because forensic experts in voice recognition have now analysed the 911 call tape and ruled out Zimmerman as the one yelling. Zimmerman’s father and his surrogate lied.

bkcunningham's avatar

I looked it up, @ETpro, and I didn’t realize the Orlando Sentinel (I don’t know how to italicize) hired two forensic experts to analyze the 911 tape. To be honest, that doesn’t tell me that anyone lied anymore than Trayvon Martin’s father initially saying it wasn’t his son’s voice tells me he isn’t telling the truth now after he changed his story.

I’m sure the defense will have their own experts. You know how that goes. There is evidence we haven’t heard or seen yet. In this case and in this country, Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty. You never know how a jury will perceive evidence.

ETpro's avatar

@bkcunningham Very interesting. And I totally agree it is time to lay low and see how a jury weighs all the evidence.

bkcunningham's avatar

Zimmerman’s bond hearing is getting underway, 9:05 a.m. Friday, 4/20.

bkcunningham's avatar

It is a bond hearing but they are going into some of the evidence. It is pretty interesting. They (meaning the television news network, not the court) just showed photos of the back of Zimmerman’s head with two vertical gashes and blood after a comment by Zimmerman’s father regarding the wounds.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Where?? Where??

bkcunningham's avatar

The photos showed the gashes and blood were on the back of Zimmerman’s head, @Dutchess_III.

chyna's avatar

@Dutchess_III If you mean where on TV, it is on Headline News.

Dutchess_III's avatar

O. Well. I don’t watch TV during a work day.

bkcunningham's avatar

Are they showing it live, @chyna? Our local news here in Florida is covering the hearing.

chyna's avatar

@bkcunningham Yes it appears to be live.

bkcunningham's avatar

Bond set at $150,000 with other stipulations such as curfew, no use of prescribed substances/alcohol…

chyna's avatar

And they are discussing whether he can live outside the state of Florida. Probably best or someone may kill him.

bkcunningham's avatar

Did anything stand out to you, @chyna, during the bail hearing?

chyna's avatar

@bkcunningham I missed most of it because I was on the phone. :-(
Anything stand out to you?

Dutchess_III's avatar

What stands out to me is that they’re saying he can’t drink. Under his circumstances that’s pretty awful. I’d want to stay drunk for a loooooong time.

bkcunningham's avatar

The prosecution brought up a prior arrest Zimmerman had regarding an incident at the UCF and an ABC agent. They did it to show prior behaviors of violence. I have thought that would be a problem for Zimmerman since the first time I read about the arrest. When the judge set the bond, his language and even his facial expressions when he talked about incidents and arrests regarding ABC officials at the UCF. The judge seemed to make it appear that it happens all the time and disregarded the arrest. He even added that the arrest happened outside the library on the UCF campus.

But who knows how jurors may see the prior arrest? I just thought it was interesting that something I thought could posssible show Zimmerman in a bad light was seemingly dismissed by a judge as not that important.

chyna's avatar

@bkcunningham Can they bring up prior arrests in his trial?

Dutchess_III's avatar

@chyna that will depend on the judge, whether or not he or she thinks it’s relevant.

bkcunningham's avatar

@chyna, I think @Dutchess_III is correct. Those things would be argued out of earshot of the jurors in pretrial motions. Prior arrests that would show some relevance to the current charges may be admissable. For instance, if someone had been charged, found guilty and served time with stalking and abusing a spouse, those charges would most likely be admissable in a murder case against the same spouse.

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