General Question

Charles's avatar

What happens to non believers?

Asked by Charles (4791 points ) April 16th, 2012

Do they all go to hell? If not, where do they go? What happens to them after they die?
I’ve read that people who don’t believe that Jesus is the son of God will go to hell, except Jews because they are the chosen People. Wouldn’t that be the majority of the people on earth?
Is this how most Christians feel? Does it say in the Bible that you will go to hell if you don’t believe in “the Christian God”?

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52 Answers

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

None of us know what happens after death. Guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Anything else is bullshit.

wundayatta's avatar

The same thing that happens to believers: life and then death. If you are asking what happens after death, then it is most likely the same thing that happens to all of us. The body disintegrates and there is no further evidence of the former life or person who inhabited that body. There may be some things left behind, such as children and work created while that person was alive, but other than that, no other evidence of that person at all.

Sometimes people have a feeling of the dead person come over them. They may describe this as feeling the spirit of that person. They can experience a sense of the person, and may even feel like they are talking to that person. This usually happens only with people who were very close to the deceased—people who knew them well during their lives.

I think it would be a mistake to think this is something that happens outside of the relatives consciousness. That is, it is a memory and a function of the person experiencing the contact. It is not evidence of a continued corporeal existence of the deceased.

OpryLeigh's avatar

I’m a believer but I still think we are all, pretty much, worm food when we die!

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

I guess we’ll all find out eventually. =0)

CaptainHarley's avatar

I use to get all worked up about this sort of issue. Now I just try to love God and my neighbor. That’s a hard enough job for me. : )

wundayatta's avatar

@CaptainHarley Maybe you should move to another neighborhood? :-P

Trillian's avatar

So are you asking someone to read the Bible for you and then tell you what it says?

syz's avatar

Nothing. We die, we rot, there is no such thing as an “after-life”. But I’m guessing I’m not your target audience for this question.

ragingloli's avatar

They alone go to heaven. God is only interested in skeptics.

Judi's avatar

I don’t like answering your questions, because it’s my experience that you only want to hear what you want to hear, but for some reason I feel compelled to answer anyway.
My first answer is I don’t know, I don’t think anyone can know for sure this side of heaven, but I hope that this guy is right. I read the book. This is a God I can trust.

Thammuz's avatar

I will assume that we’re talking Christian POV, though you should specify it in the question.

According to the bible, Revelation 21:8 “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

So yeah, hell. That’s it.

As for what actually happens, who knows, my money is on: “something other than what a guy held captive on an island known for its hallucinogenic mushrooms wrote thousands of years ago.”

LostInParadise's avatar

Sorry to disappoint to disappoint those who believe that knowledge will be achieved upon death, because we will be, um, dead

Keep_on_running's avatar

It’s funny how much time people spend discussing what ‘happens’ after you die. Once your brian is kaput so are you. Everyone get with the program already. When you’re dead and gone no one’s going to care whether you thought you’d have an afterlife in heaven or hell or neither…

JLeslie's avatar

Um, I am pretty sure the Jews don’t get an exceotion. If we do I would love to see a link stating that from some sort of Christian document.

Jews believe all good people will go to heaven. Most atheists believe when you are dead your dead, so all of us are going, or not going, to the same place. I also think most atheists, on the off chance there is an afterlife and there is a God, don’t believe God would give a damn whether some was Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, nothing. Even a judgemental God would care about our behavior while on earth, not what place of worship we were affiliated with. We are all his children, would you damn your children to hell for not doing exactly as you said?

Coloma's avatar

I resonate most with eastern philosophy, however, I find the idea of reincarnation even more frightening than the idea of hell unless I can come back as a well loved pet that belongs to someone like me. lol
I think hell is a much better alternative than living multiple lives trying to get it right. haha

Bottom line, we know no-thing for certain, however, I will say that the concepts of heaven/hell are all sates of mind not actual destinations. “The kingdom of heaven is within” meaning that burning through ego and identification with the material world is what brings lasting inner peace “heaven” and remaining stuck in the little me mindset of ego brings suffering. I do believe it is as simple as that. :-)

ragingloli's avatar

@Coloma
I would say reincarnation is infinitely less frightening than hell.
With reincarnation you at least have the chance to have some sort of control over your life when you are reborn. You also have the option to reach nirvana, during whatever cycle you choose.
Once you land in hell, you are tortured for eternity, with no chance whatsoever to escape from it.

josie's avatar

Think about the eternal span of time that passed before you were born. That is what it will be like when you die.

Coloma's avatar

@ragingloli Well I am certain I won’t go to hell if such a place exists, which I do not believe it does, sooo…wait and see.

DominicX's avatar

Hell, of course. That way, avoiding hell can be the motive for believing in the first place. Would Christianity have less followers if there was no threat of hell to deal with? Sometimes I think so…

Trillian's avatar

Funny how many definitive answers from so many who have not experienced the event.

DominicX's avatar

Well, seeing as how no one has experienced it, you can filter out the “I think…” at the beginning of responses since that is implied.

Seek's avatar

Hey, the people in the church I grew up in think most Christians are going to hell.

If you follow their thoughts to conclusion, Heaven is going to be three long-haired women who were born deaf-mute quadraplegics.

Pandora's avatar

As a believer I don’t even know what will be my fate. Much less the fate of others.

ucme's avatar

A one way ticket to Belgium?

Nullo's avatar

More precisely, they don’t go to Heaven nor do they have access to Earth 2.0, and so are thoroughly and eternally cut off from God. We’re only partly cut off from God now.

LostInParadise's avatar

What does it mean to be cut off from God? How would one notice the difference?

Nullo's avatar

Imagine for a minute that all that is Right and Good and Hopeful is a direct result of God’s involvement in things. This isn’t strictly true, but it’ll do for the purposes of the exercise.

Now turn it off.

flutherother's avatar

Time comes to an end when we die and nothing can ‘happen’ to us anymore.

Thammuz's avatar

@Nullo This isn’t strictly true, but it’ll do for the purposes of the exercise.

No, in fact it is not. He’s also responsible for everything negative, evil and wrong, being the one who created everything, including his enemy who, though less powerful than an omnipotent being is allowed to run amok.

digitalimpression's avatar

Based on most of the previous answers I know this will pretty much be a total waste of time but… someone has to actually answer from a religious perspective. It can’t all be people without faith or an open mind.

P.S. Please forgive me for things spelled incorrectly or grammatical errors. Your language is a clumsy ox begging to be put out of its misery.

@Charles
“Do they all go to hell? If not, where do they go? What happens to them after they die?”
The bible speaks of mankind possessing a body, soul, and a spirit. If someone is only capable of imagining one dimension then.. well.. you’ve got a non-believer ready to go out of the box from the factory. If, on the other hand, a person is able to imagine something bigger than themselves.. you may have part of the recipe for a believer. For me, it is incomprehensible to assume that human beings have all the answers. For pete’s sake, we only discovered how to make things that fly just recently (in the big scheme of things). How preposterously narcisstic are we, then, as a species to claim that we have all the answers to life and death… a much more complicated subject in comparison?

To more directly answer your question: I believe that non-believers will go to hell.. I have trouble imagining a merciful God doing such a thing and condemning someone to such a fate.. but then again, I also have trouble understanding how someone could refuse to investigate the idea of God and religion with an open mind as well.

“I’ve read that people who don’t believe that Jesus is the son of God will go to hell, except Jews because they are the chosen People. Wouldn’t that be the majority of the people on earth?”
Actually, religious people outnumber non-believers stastically speaking. Yes, they are different religions. But perhaps they are all different paths to the same destination. Either way, the answer is no. Non-Believers are not the majority.

“Is this how most Christians feel? Does it say in the Bible that you will go to hell if you don’t believe in “the Christian God”?”
There are many different versions of the Bible. There are millions upon millions of different perspectives even on the same bible.

Personally, I’m fond of 1 Samuel 16:7 which states “But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. ”

@LostInParadise
“What does it mean to be cut off from God? How would one notice the difference?”
I believe it would be worse than anything you could imagine.

@CaptainHarley
Someday I will have the wisdom to avoid these questions, but I guess not today.

ragingloli's avatar

I do have an open mind. But not to the point of gullibility. I am open to the possibility of the existence of deities, however I will not accept such a claim without strong supporting evidence. To date, no theist has ever presented anything resembling convincing evidence.
Not accepting supernatural claims due to a mind boggling lack of evidence is not being close minded. It is being a healthy skeptic.
Accepting supernatural claims, or any claim for that matter, without evidence is not being open minded. It is being gullible.

“How preposterously narcisstic are we, then, as a species to claim that we have all the answers to life and death.”
You will find that no atheist ever claimed such a thing. We know that we do not know everything. We know that we know almost nothing. But we also know that a lack of explanation for certain things does not make the god claim any more credible. To claim otherwise is an argument from ignorance.

DominicX's avatar

I always find it interesting when theists use the “atheists are arrogant” argument because they think we think we have “all the answers”. Yet theists will go and claim they know God exists, they know their religion is right, they know who goes to hell, they know how everyone should behave, humans are made in God’s image, humans have special God-given purposes and higher callings and can rule over all other animals and there is no other intelligent life in the universe, etc. Yet somehow all of this is not having all the answers or being “arrogant”. Yeah, that is totally not hypocritical at all.~

Additionally, just because someone disagrees with you, doesn’t mean they don’t have an “open mind”. Please.

digitalimpression's avatar

@DominicX

“Yet theists will go and claim they know God exists”
I don’t know God exists. I believe He does based on what I have read, witnessed, and experienced.

”, they their religion is right”
I won’t claim that my religion is right. I’m not sure how you got that out of “perhaps they are all different paths to the same destination”.

”, they know who goes to hell”
Not sure how you got that out of 1 Samuel 16:7. I have no idea. Only God knows.

”, they know how everyone should behave”
I don’t know how everyone should behave but I do have a moral compass. Occassionally it needs maintenance.

”, humans are made in God’s image”
Again, that is a belief. I’m not sure what’s so wrong with expressing it.

”, humans have special purposes”
What’s wrong with having a purpose? Wait, do you mean like spiderman or..?

”. Yet somehow all of this is not having all the answers or being “arrogant”. Yeah, that is totally no hypocritical at all.~”
Not sure why you keep quoting “arrogant”. I don’t believe I used the word one time. My implications about non-believers are only one man’s opinion/belief. While I understand the instinct to be defensive (I am defensive all the time).. I truly don’t mean to express my opinions/beliefs in a way that rubs your fur the wrong way. For that I apologize.

@ragingloli
I’m having trouble figuring this part out:
“We know that we know almost nothing. ”

Followed later by an implication about believers..
“To claim otherwise is an argument from ignorance.”

DominicX's avatar

@digitalimpression Actually, I saw your comment as similar to other comments I’ve seen before, so that’s why I didn’t use the “at” symbol in my response because I was responding to a general attitude that I’ve seen, not just your response specifically. And yes, your comment reminded me of that, which is why I posted, but it wasn’t exactly in line with what I was saying. So you didn’t use “arrogant” or say “I know for a fact God exists”, but I’ve seen that kind of thing before from believers in their arguments against non-believers who make similar arguments.

digitalimpression's avatar

@DominicX You see? There I go being defensive again! xD

ragingloli's avatar

@digitalimpression
Atheists and scientists admit that we “know” very little and much of what we do “know” today could turn out to be inaccurate or even wrong.
A lack of knowledge just means that we do not know at the moment, and that there is more to discover.

However, a lot of theists take the fact that we do not know how certain things work, and claim or try to imply that this lack of knowledge supports their own claim that god did it.
But it does not support the god claim, because their position is completely unfounded and unsupported by evidence.
For example, if someone sees a strange light in the sky, the fact that he does not know what exactly this light is, is by itself not evidence for the claim that this light was an extraterrestrial spacecraft pilloted by a 1 metre tall grey alien.
Or, the fact that we do not know how exactly life formed, or what caused the Big Bang, is not evidence for the claim that Allah spoke everything into existence and then formed Adam and Eva from clay.

sami007's avatar

Actually, yes the non-believers go to hell, So you should search for the thruth quickly, because death can arrive at any time.
SEARCH FOR THE THRUTH. And don’t listen to any one, you have your own brain so use it to find god.
I advice you to read the “Holy books” of the main religions. And compare.

digitalimpression's avatar

@ragingloli My beliefs are not unfounded or unsupported. My evidence is simply not admissible in your brain. I don’t fault you for that. I only hope that you can find what I’ve found via whatever means you require.

ml3269's avatar

WE like all human beeings go away… to nothing. Remember the year 1900… it is the same.
You can not remember because you were not here at that time. And to christiansmuslimsjews will happen the same… uuups. Nothing true you were told you’re entire life. That’s it. Not in theory. In reality. Sorry for that.

ragingloli's avatar

@digitalimpression
What evidence do you have exactly? There is a reason why personal testimony, visions, “spiritual” feelings or god talking to you directly can not be considered evidence for the supernatural, because all these things can be caused by various influences, chemical, electromagnetical and otherwise, on the brain.
They also are in direct conflict with equal experience had by people of other religions, which are incompatible with your religion, which I will assume is Christianity.
Your “all different paths to the same destination” does not hold water because the abrahamic god specifically demands that you have no other gods before him. Which means that the gods of the other religions are not acceptable alternative pathways to heaven, and that they are not different manifestations of the same abrahamic god, because if they were, the abrahamic god would be fine with you having other gods before him, because they would all be him. Not to mention the fact that you only get to heaven by specifically accepting Jesus as your saviour.
That is why the wishy washy stuff is not evidence, because all religions have those, they are mutually exclusive, and they can not all be right, which means that because, in the best case scenario, all but one religions are false, the personal testimony for any of these false religions does not have any weight whatsoever in determining the veracity of those religions, and by extension neither for the veracity of the remaining religion, as all religions can be false.
And then there is the fact, that many essential claims about the actions of god, allegedly made by himself, and claims about the history and nature of reality have been shown by science to be flat out false.
The Earth is not mere 6000 years old (the number calculated by adding up the genealogies in the bible), but 4.5 billion years old (the universe even older), the Sun does not revolve around the Earth the Earth is not flat, the sky is not a solid dome, humans were not formed from dust and there was no global flood. When a religion and a god that claim inerrancy in all things get the fundamentals of reality wrong on such a massive scale, it calls into question the entirety of that belief system.

Pandora's avatar

@digitalimpression I learned some months ago that all these questions ever lead too to comments from people wanting empirical proof. Which is why I answer once in a while with very little.

Adagio's avatar

I have no intention to offend anyone but this question makes me think immediately of a joke I heard years and years ago, I thought it very funny then and still do…

A man arrives at the Pearly Gates of Heaven and is met by St Peter who leads him down a road paved in gold. As they walk, the new arrival notices an extremely high wall extending as far as the eye can see, he asks St Peter what is behind the wall, St Peter whispers and says “oh that’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses, they think they are the only ones here” small things amuse small minds, perhaps

Your question also reminds me of something from a CS Lewis book A Grief Observed, I remember somewhere he came up with the question, or something very like it, Is blue round or square? Something about your question reminds me of that, perhaps it makes about as much sense to me……

Thammuz's avatar

Religious debate, w00t!

@digitalimpression: Personal experience is never admissible evidence. Not even for oneself.

If I happened to start hearing the voice of god, i would not convert, i would get my brain examined. Accepting something that has all the symptoms of something negative as something positive is the kind of behaviour of people who think they are infalliable. I suppose this isn’t your case, you sound too reasonable to be one of those nutters. I was just putting it out there to underline the extent one’s skepticism should go to when examining outlandish claims.

On the other hand, seeing generally positive patterns and attributing them to god is just cognitive bias, like those football players that point their finger to the sky when they score, you never see them flipping the bird to the sky when they drop a pass, do you?

Whatever “supporting evidence” for your own position you think you have, if you were a good skeptical thinker you’d realize you actually don’t. If you accept them as sufficient evidence,, know that they objectively are not. If your standards are lower than what is actually necessary to prove a point, that’s your business, but that doesn’t make your claim valid or founded.

digitalimpression's avatar

@ragingloli We’ve already established that my evidence isn’t admissable to you.. and yet you still want me to haul it out and display it. Well, I’ve displayed it many many countless times here on fluther.. even to you before (no doubt).. I’ve no wish to climb onto that hamster wheel again unless you are willing to take it off the mounts so we can get somewhere.

@Pandora
Matthew 5:14–6
“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”

I have a hard time deciding when to be Solomon and when to be Peter. Yes, these conversations do lead inexorably toward the empirical proof vortex. But I have to hope that there is at least one person who can latch onto some nugget of knowledge or wisdom before our ship sinks. Many times it is me. I especially have trouble with “that they may see your good works” part. Part of me wants to slap some people and say into their inner brain “wake up! there’s something to this! It’s real! Can’t you see it?”. The other part of me is calm and understanding of the fact that there will always be people who don’t believe in God. Some won’t believe in anything.

@Thammuz
“Personal experience is never admissible evidence. Not even for oneself.”
What can be your evidence if not personal experience? I’m excited to hear your take.

“On the other hand, seeing generally positive patterns and attributing them to god is just cognitive bias,”
There’s nothing “general” about it. It is very direct and very personal.

“like those football players that point their finger to the sky when they score, you never see them flipping the bird to the sky when they drop a pass, do you?”
It’s human nature to be a “fair weather fan”. I wouldn’t expect a player to point downard toward the devil if he fumbled the ball.

“Whatever “supporting evidence” for your own position you think you have, if you were a good skeptical thinker you’d realize you actually don’t.”
That’s just silly. That’s a pretty general way of saying “it doesn’t really matter what you think or believe, you’re wrong”. It’s this sort of statement that allows me to determine who I can (or cannot) have a reasonable conversation with.

ragingloli's avatar

@digitalimpression
Do you believe that extraterrestrials are flying around and abducting people and performing experiments on them?

Thammuz's avatar

@digitalimpression What can be your evidence if not personal experience? I’m excited to hear your take.

Objectively measurable data. Repeatable tests that give consistent results. If prayer worked, we’d see the pattern, if divine intervention hadn’t stopped being so flamboyant when we started having cross-referenceable sources for the facts, or had outside sources confirming those facts when they were, like in Matthew 27:45 to 53, where some quite remarkable shit happens, what with the sky turning to black and what seems to be described as and earthquake and, most of all, a fucking zombie uprising, yet nobody outside of the christian faith seems to have noticed that, I’d be more inclined to give it a second or two more of doubt, before chucking it in the same bin as every other mythology i’ve already dismissed.

I assume you don’t believe in Thor, yet to a norse he was as real as Jesus is to you. How do you explain that?

There’s nothing “general” about it. It is very direct and very personal.

Unless god is giving you envelopes full of obviously miraculous cash, like materializing from thin air in front of you, with “love, God” written on them or he personally came down on earth to stop a car from running you over, long beard, tunic and everything, it’s certainly indirect and probably also very, very vague. If it isn’t either of those, I’d like to hear that.

It’s human nature to be a “fair weather fan”. I wouldn’t expect a player to point downard toward the devil if he fumbled the ball.

I would, honestly. Rather, i’d expect them to flip the bird to the sky. If i actually believed that everything is the will of one omnipotent omnipresent all-knowing being, I’d hold it responsible for everything that happens. (God is responsible for evil because he created the devil and, being all knowing, knew full well what was going to happen after, hence he is guilty of knowingly releasing evil upon his creation. Furthermore, being omnipotent, he’s also guilty of not preventing the devil from doing damage. Then again, that applies only if you accept the existence of the devil and its responsibility for evil. If you don’t, then God is responsible because he’s the only being in charge.)

That’s just silly. That’s a pretty general way of saying “it doesn’t really matter what you think or believe, you’re wrong”.
Well, yes, it doesn’t matter what you think or believe, what matters are the facts and what you can prove.

I can find countless flaws in any definition of god that makes him of any consequence and not a dick, no christian has ever given any sound and valid proof (be it empirical or logical) of the existence of god.

It’s this sort of statement that allows me to determine who I can (or cannot) have a reasonable conversation with.

I can be plenty reasonable, what i can’t be is accomodating. If you want to say your beliefs are justified i expect you to justify them, and i will be there to whack you on the head with a rolled up newspaper for every leap in logic, fallacy and cop-out i will find in your justification.

If, on the other hand, you didn’t claim your position was justified, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. In fact, I find it much more reasonable to question someone who claims to have evidence for the intellectually losing position of a debate that has been going since pretty much the dawn of time, if anything because I would be glad to see it settled one way or the other. It actually is settled as far as most actual religions go, i’m just being hypothetical here.

digitalimpression's avatar

@ragingloli
No, I don’t. However, I won’t rule it out based solely on the fact that it sounds strange to me. I don’t have any personal experience or evidence for it. I have personal evidence for gravity, many elements of physics, math, some aspects of psychology, and God for example… but no personal evidence for little green men who always seem to want to probe someone anally.

@Thammuz
“If prayer worked, we’d see the pattern”
It does, and I have.

“a fucking zombie uprising”
Reducing the climax of this story to a “zombie uprising” is funny. There are tons of miracles in the bible.. why would you choose this event? Why not say you won’t believe because the red sea parted in the story, or locusts came from the sky, or water turned into wine, or five loaves and two small fishes fed 5000 people? None of these things are unbelievable to me because I believe in a higher power… one who was a smidge prominent in the timeframe you’re referencing.

“I assume you don’t believe in Thor, yet to a norse he was as real as Jesus is to you. How do you explain that?”
Well, I will have to foot on down to the local church of Thor and get more information. I’ll get back to you.

“Unless god is giving you envelopes full of obviously miraculous cash, like materializing from thin air in front of you, with “love, God” written on them or he personally came down on earth to stop a car from running you over, long beard, tunic and everything, it’s certainly indirect and probably also very, very vague. If it isn’t either of those, I’d like to hear that.”
As I mentioned to @ragingloli, I’ve given my testimony several times here on fluther, only to be regarded with one eybrow raised and a metaphorical middle finger in my face. That’s not the sort of thing I’m willing to jump into… especially based on the tone of your posts. I will say, though, that what you’ve presented is a common lament. Why won’t God make my leg grow back? Why won’t he give me a fancy new car, a million dollars, and 6 million dollar mansion in the Hamptons? Why won’t he just show himself so that there will be no doubt? I can only say that you aren’t alone in that sentiment as evidenced in the bible.

Luke 23:35–37
“And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God. And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar, And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.”

Well, I suppose it just isn’t in God’s plan for me to have a dodge viper simply because I want it. I won’t pretend to be wise enough to discern God’s plan.

Now, I would continue answering your post with my opinions and beliefs but it doesn’t appear as if you really want to hear what I have to say anyway so… I’ll just shake your virtual hand and bid you good luck in your future.

ragingloli's avatar

@digitalimpression
Why do you not believe it? Because according to your criteria of what constitutes convincing evidence, you have to believe it. You will find a lot of people who have personal experiences more vivid than those of religious people, of being abducted by extraterrestrials. (not to mention all the sightings, photos and videos of UFOs).
They will describe to you in detail, what these aliens looked like, and what exactly these aliens did to them. This is extremely detailed personal testimony by abductees. Why do you not accept this testimony as convincing evidence for alien abductions?
How can you claim that personal experience for religion is sufficient for you to believe it, criticise nonbelievers for not accepting your testimony as proof, while at the same time you are completely disregarding the personal experience and testimony of alien abductees?
And we need not even stop at aliens. You will find people who have personal experiences with Bigfoot, Fairies and Ghosts.

“Why won’t he just show himself so that there will be no doubt?”
Yes, why will he not? Because according to your book, he used to do it regularly.
He appeared as a burning bush, as a pillar of fire, he drowned nearly everyone on the planet, he vaporised a big tower, he vaporised entire cities and caused plagues in egypt.
But now he only appears on toast.
Why does he not make a direct appearance today, especially since a science could then prove the divine nature of such an appearance?

digitalimpression's avatar

@ragingloli
“criticise nonbelievers for not accepting your testimony as proof,”
Actually I said I don’t fault you for that.

It’s this sort of thing that makes conversation difficult. How can we converse rationally if you’re going to blatantly misrepresent me. No… I’m done here.. lol.

I won’t even begin to pick apart the rest of it. I’ve spent enough time on the wheel.

ragingloli's avatar

@digitalimpression I certainly did not misrepresent you:
“My evidence is simply not admissible in your brain”
But you are, predictably, using it now anyway to avoid answering the obvious irrational double standard that you apparently have when it comes to personal experience and testimony as “evidence” for claims. Personal testimony is good enough to accept both god and alien abduction, and yet you only accept the former and reject the latter for no reason.
Real evidence is by definition acceptable to everyone it is presented to. If someone else’s personal experience about alien abduction is not good enough for you to believe the claim, then your personal experience about god is not good enough either. Not for anyone, including yourself.
“How can we converse rationally if you’re going to blatantly misrepresent me. No… I’m done here.. lol.”
I was being rational. You were not. That is why we can not converse rationally.

Thammuz's avatar

@digitalimpression It does, and I have.

It doesn’t, and we have double blind tests to prove it. Seeing patterns is a common human skill, but it is also sensitive to bias. People think horoscopes work based on the same bias that makes you believe prayer works.

Reducing the climax of this story to a “zombie uprising” is funny. There are tons of miracles in the bible.. why would you choose this event? Why not say you won’t believe because – various impossible events – ? None of these things are unbelievable to me because I believe in a higher power… one who was a smidge prominent in the timeframe you’re referencing.

I don’t because of all of those, i did say “like” that particular series of events, implying it is an example. But as to why exactly that example: simple, because it’s the clearest proof of how bullshit the whole thing is. We have some pretty remarkable stuff going on, all at once, during a public execution of a “prominent” figure of a region (i put it in quotes because he was so prominent that people called him by different names and no source is available outside of christians and jews until 300 years later and even then only about christians as a whole) only two of which can be chalked up to natural calamity (eclipse and earthquake) and one of which is absolutely impossible (zombie uprising). You’d think someone would consider that worth mentioning, especially considering the region was occupied by a foreign country, so it’s not like there were no outside observers.

Well, I will have to foot on down to the local church of Thor and get more information. I’ll get back to you.
Joke all you want, let me rephrase that. Go ask a hindu why you should praise Vishnu. Your poking fun at the fact that another mythological creature is not worshipped anymore in your region makes me giggle softly to myself, because that’s exactly what happend to Jesus in the middle east, and frankly, because that’s what’s going to happen to all gods eventually, at least according to all the data.

As I mentioned to @ragingloli, I’ve given my testimony several times here on fluther, only to be regarded with one eybrow raised and a metaphorical middle finger in my face.
Which should tell you how rational your conclusion is.

Why won’t he just show himself so that there will be no doubt? I can only say that you aren’t alone in that sentiment as evidenced in the bible. Well, I suppose it just isn’t in God’s plan for me to have a dodge viper simply because I want it. I won’t pretend to be wise enough to discern God’s plan.

I will. Rationality is not debatable. Whatever his motive, the only possible conclusion from

a) Not believing in god means going to hell
b) There is no good reason to believe in god
c) God gave us the brain that allows us to test the evidence annd find it lacking

is “God deliberately condemns people to hell for using the tools he gave them, which means that it is good in god’s eyes to be stupid and/or guillible.”

Now, I would continue answering your post with my opinions and beliefs but it doesn’t appear as if you really want to hear what I have to say anyway so… I’ll just shake your virtual hand and bid you good luck in your future.

If you had anything worthwile to say i would gladly listen, all you did up to now was copping out and special pleading, but you still have time to change that.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

According to nearly every major religion on earth, they go to some kind of hell. And since no one for sure knows which religion is the true religion, nearly every one will be going to hell in the crapshoot.

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