Social Question

JenniferP's avatar

Should Christians fight in the world's wars?

Asked by JenniferP (2103 points ) December 4th, 2012

Would Jesus and his disciples have taken up arms for their country?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

52 Answers

Blackberry's avatar

Some christians (and people) are huge hypocrites with sub par critical thinking skills. What else is new, lol.

janbb's avatar

Should anyone?

Kardamom's avatar

Answer to Question 1: Not any more or any less than non-christians do.

Answer to Question 2: I think Jesus was called “The Prince of Peace” if I’m not mistaken, so probably not. Plus he was all about turning the other cheek, so again, probably not.

But modern times are quite different than ancient times, so who can really say?

marinelife's avatar

Should war exist?

dxs's avatar

I know that the Catholic Church (Holy See) has a system to determine if a war is “just” in their eyes. Certain aspects have to apply, such as “all other efforts to end the problem have failed”, or “the problem is a very serious matter”, or “the intention of waging war is to end the problem”. Here’s a more in-depth source: https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pol116/justwar.htm
I feel that this theory is too subjective to work, honestly. I’m not sure if it ever even has been used in history.

chyna's avatar

King David thought so.

Unbroken's avatar

http://logosresourcepages.org/Believers/war.htm

I happen to believe there are two sides to every war. Repercussions and the efficacy of wars i.e Vietnam, Iraq, Afganistan bring more question toward the supposed morality of a just war but that is my opinion I would advocate for a more select selectivism, then described here. But that is my opinion not a biblical interpretation.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

I personally believe war is the stupidest way ever invented to decide anything. That being said, if someone comes to attack you, you’d better be more than able to kick his ass.

Kardamom's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe Maybe wars should be waged in the kitchen, ala Iron Chef.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@Kardamom I like that. That’s amazing. They get their decision and then set down to a meal together. That would be so much better than dragging people off a battlefield.

Kardamom's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe And no one would starve to death.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@Kardamom That’s what I was thinking. Plus they won’t feel like fighting when they’re all stuffed with food. I see a Nobel Prize in your future.

Kardamom's avatar

Yes, when you’re stuffed full of Ltryptophan, all you wanna do is watch TV and snooze in a lazy boy recliner, not kill people : ) Maybe Ltryptophan is the answer to Whirled Peas.

burntbonez's avatar

Absolutely not! But who cares?

JenniferP's avatar

@Chyna-King David wasn’t Christian. He was Israelite. The wars of that time were different. God sanctioned those wars and Israelites didn’t kill their fellow Israleites. If one were to go to war now they may be killing a fellow believer in a different country. And both sides can’t be right.

Rarebear's avatar

Well, since Christians have caused many wars in history, the answer is yes.

JLeslie's avatar

They start a lot of them.

Unbroken's avatar

I would argue powerful rich people and organizations start wars to get more money and power.

I mean the President of United States starts wars. Other then it being a title as well as usually a Christain it does not mean you are always acting in the best interests of that role.

Do we also think all Presidents are horrid war mongers? Sure some, I can buy that.

There are also some pretty crappy mothers and fathers out there as well.

That is also a title many belong to. Let’s continue with the generalizations here shall we?

Just saying.

JLeslie's avatar

@rosehips Don’t be so defensive. People who aren’t Christians start wars to. But, the question is about Christians. There are so many different Christian sects we certainly cannot generalize them into one bunch, and we can’t say all Christians even within a sect all think the same about war. No one is foolish enough to think all Christians are alike, don’t worry. The irony in the question is Christians have started wars and were more than willing to kill the enemy throughout history.

Unbroken's avatar

Oh no worries I’m not defensive. Devil’s advocate and what not.
I would say that irony reinforces the memory of religous wars, or war where religion has played a significant role.
I am not sure the purpose of the question. But I feel it reasonable to assume that she is asking about individual Christains.
Which I would have to say they have to make that distinction for themselves.
If there is a draft the Bible states that one should obey the laws of the country. Been a long time so I am going on a fog of a memory here.
As for the possibility of being granted exemptions. Mennonites and Amish only. I am not sure the reasoning of this, but I don’t recall them participating activily in any war in my history books. And they certainly didn’t start any.

JLeslie's avatar

@rosehips I interpreted the question as asking about individuals also. Isn’t it always an individual? Or, a group of indivduals? No matter how much the religious might want to believe the clergy that run the show are close to God and decide how to interpret their holly book, they still also are individuals. And, I was not thinking just holy wars, I was thinking all wars. Bush brought the US into the most recent wars, Christian. When the Irish were fighting not so very long ago, Christains. For that matter I would assume 90% of wars fought in the last 100 years in the western world were started by people who identify as Christians, and same for the soldiers who fought them.

The bible states one should follow the law of the country? I never heard of such a thing,
That doesn’t sound right to me.where does it say that?

Unbroken's avatar

I considered that as well. Which is why I brought in the label mothers as an example. Quite a few unworthy of that population are unworthy to the intent and purpose of motherhood.
If you want to go that route probably around 90% of people fighting in the war were fathers. The irony of making life and then taking it away.

So here are mothers and fathers as baby killers, rapists, drug users and abusers, and so forth. They say parenthood is a scared thing. A rite of passage. But there is no passing or failing. No one is tested they simply exist.
As to the other, I am not sure. I haven’t picked up a bible since sunday school. But I believe it was Jesus that said this. Was it in response to the census takers or to taxation? I don’t have a concordance or a bible.
Let me get back to you on that.

JenniferP's avatar

@rosehips J. Witnesses have never fought in a war too. Not just Amish and Mennonites.

Unbroken's avatar

Ok I can’t link on my phone.
Romans 13 1–7 states you should follow the government law first, be in compliance because God made governments to function. Etc Etc.
Genesis 9:6 cover this topic as well as I Corinthians 14:33 Romans 12 :8
The exception is when Gods laws contradict governments laws but you must do so with respect and be willing to pay the the consequences. Paul did this in Acts 5 27–29. And then rejoiced in his punishment in Acts 5 40— 42.
Ok that makes me sick. Done defending the Bible now.

@JenniferP are you worried about a draft and want Jehovah’s Witnesses to be exempt? If this is not the case maybe you should create a blog about your religion. Not name drop here. I can tell you it’s not effective. And I am really trying to be the nicest person I can be. Which after that bit about Paul just got 50 times harder.

ucme's avatar

Only when lions are present.

JenniferP's avatar

@rosehips
Why would I be worried about a draft? There is no war. Why should I create a blog? I have this forum to share my views and I checked out the guidelines and don’t believe I am breaking any. If I am, a moderator can correct me. You can’t kick other people off of this site. As far as name dropping, I am going to define that for you. If I knew a celebrity and I kept bringing up his name to impress others, that would be name-dropping. You mentioned 2 groups who are conscientious objectors and missed one so I added that to the list. If I am name-dropping by mention the JWs then so are you for mentioning Mennonites and Amish. If you don’t like my questions you can skip them. If I came to your door, at least you could say “You are on my property” but you came to my “property” to get involved in a discussion.

wundayatta's avatar

I feel like I’m watching a slow motion train wreck of some kind, except it’s a slow motion religious cat fight. Novel. I bet if we filmed it and put it on Youtube, we could generate a lot of hits.

Carry on.

JLeslie's avatar

@rosehips Interesting quotes, thanks for providing them. I don’t understand your gripe with @JenniferP? She isn’t name dropping, she is a Jehovah’s Witness and she was explaining they also don’t fight wars. I doubt she has to worry about a draft, America dies not seem to be drafting anymore or any time soon, and I have never even heard a discussion about drafting women, although that would be an interesting question if we decided America needed a draft. Anyway, @JenniferP‘s question was about Jesus and war, and how others interpret what Jesus would expect of others and do himself. If she made a JW blog (there already are JW blogs and other websites) she would ony get the opinions of other JW’s. On fluther she gets the opinions of many different viewpoints.

JenniferP's avatar

@wundayatta Seeing that I only made one comment in response to her (and merely defended myself strongly yet tactfully) I don’t think it can be called a catfight. Thank you at @JLeslie for defending me. I think it is important to allow ALL viewpoints to be expressed and not make things personal just because people don’t like a particular faith. Not only can I not be drafted for being a woman, I am too old. I never understand why people try to tell you why you are asking a question. My thought processes belong to me and only I know my motives and reasons.

wundayatta's avatar

@JenniferP So you don’t think it can be called a catfight, and yet, I just did so. Why do you go against the facts when they are so present? Unless you were trying to say you don’t agree with the characterization, which is probably what you meant. But the fact is that it can and was just called a catfight.

But don’t mind me. I’m just an ass.

burntbonez's avatar

@JenniferP I think @wundayatta was just expressing what this reminded him of. I don’t think that meant anything pejorative about you.

JenniferP's avatar

I don’t really care. If it was a catfight it was already going on and then I came along and said something and got in the middle. I didn’t read the stuff between the other people too thoroughly and then afterward I read them a little more. What I was objecting to was that I put out a harmless question and made a harmless comment and then got accused of “name-dropping” and was told I shouldn’t ask questions here. I responded one time. I though “catfight” was kind of harsh because I didn’t call names or get rude and I only replied to her once. You can call it what you want but I am done with the subject because if I respond anymore than it will be a “catfight.” Btw, what is it called when men fight? A “dog fight”?

KNOWITALL's avatar

I think it would depend on the circumstances. He was the Prince of Peace, but He also kicked the moneylenders out of the church for inappropriate behavior….I wouldn’t put JC in a box too quickly, He is complicated. :)

Unbroken's avatar

Right well I was interpreting your question @JenniferP because it seemed the best solution as to my current frame of mind and my view you and religion. It was silly of my to impose that on you. I knew it was likely inaccurate. Yet it seemed much calmer and moderate a position then from the first 4 comments I had in response to you. I should have merely refrained from commenting at all.

My viewpoint was soured by the proposed joyful martyring that the faithful should do. My gripe was a redirection, the original source was the scripture. I don’t know if you realize this but Biblical Flogging was public, and could be very brutal. The technically correct term is flaying for a reason. Description of Jewish Flogging
Roman flogging was worse. The Apostle Paul for example was flayed 5 times: 40 lashes which is 120 stripes each time.

So upon the reminder of that, I don’t care that God is the supposed author of peace. Or that after the exchange of the moneylenders in which he kicked booty he spoke against proselytizing. Matthew 23

Earlier in his Genesis chapter 6 we are talking about the near decimination of the living.

So you are right I shouldn’t be here on your territory. I was trying to respectful. To desensitize what is a trigger issue for me. To stay open, and to be more welcoming to Christains here. I also believed myself correct in the position I was clarifying with @JLeslie as well as my original post.

I lost my ability to fairly regard the question after reading what I did and thinking about the scriptures I cited in my last post. I am simply not capable of not caring about this issue.

Jehovah Witnesses I don’t have any special grudge against. Other then that they seem to be pushiest with their ideals, and it is really sad that they only have an annointed 144000. Which I don’t even begin to understand. In the regards that at that point, what exactly is the point. I am sure you could tell me. But maybe now would not be the best time.

And I didn’t mean to ignore your sect. It was by no means an all inclusive list of course by all means mention it. I am sorry for losing my temper. I really thought I was defusing my anger at the scriptures effectivily. It is just a hard topic for me to get to the middle ground, that my balance is quickly lost.

Kardamom's avatar

Would anyone like some tea?

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

I was hoping this was a sign of Peace but afraid to raise my head because I know squat on religion.

Unbroken's avatar

Tea would be lovely. What do you have @Kardamom? And you can thwap me on the head while your at it @Adirondackwannabe.
Even my apology was not right even though I deliberately gave myself space to calm down.

Kardamom's avatar

@rosehips I think your apology was quite thoughtful.

This is the Tea I was planning on serving.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@rosehips You haven’t even dipped a toe in compared to some of the screwups I’ve achieved. Believe me, this was nothing. I should bring something too. Let me go look.
Here, the tea here is supposed to be nice.
http://www.thesagamore.com/

Unbroken's avatar

I love tea @Kardamom but I have yet to try that combo or brand. It looks fabulous.
And thanks for the encouragement @Adirondackwannabe. I will just continue to try.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@JenniferP Thanks for keeping it peaceful too. You guys got a little intense, but not so much that we lost either of you two is my hope.

JenniferP's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe No, I am not going anywhere. Or maybe I will go start a blog.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

Good for you.:) Either way.

JenniferP's avatar

@rosehips JWs actually aren’t the pushiest of groups. Fundamentalists are. They get involved in politics and try to influence things like whether or not gay marriage should be allowed. When I was down South you couldn’t buy alcohol on Sundays because it was the Bible belt. JWs stay out of politics.

Unbroken's avatar

@JenniferP Good point. And I am sorry I offended you.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

Okay, this is when fluther is at it’s best. We are much better at being buds.

JenniferP's avatar

Thank you, to @rosehips and peace to you and yours. Can we all have a group hug?

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

(((((((Hug)))))

Kardamom's avatar

Urrrrrrrrp! So sorry, I just ate all of the cookies while y’all were huggin’

KingCupcake's avatar

of course not, what is the 6th commandment? “Thy shall not kill” ... besides, it wouldn’t be pleasing to God to fight for a dirty, wicked nation and a government that’s run by Satan.

all the countries in the world are going to get destroyed anyway, Once Christ returns.

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