How important is dress code in school?

Most dress codes are made because a few kids or parents make really stupid decisions and without a code, there’d be no “legal” way to say “Don’t come to school half naked or dressed like an idiot!”

I hated dress codes when I was a teacher because there were so many stupid loopholes. And the administration were kind of jerks about it. I’d get told I wasn’t enforcing it enough and then told I was coming down too hard on the kids. And yuck. Did I really want to get out a ruler and slap it on some girl’s thigh to see if her skirt was too short?

I like uniforms better. Rather than making up a bunch of stupid rules just dissallow everything but the uniform. Easy no brainer. I’m not talking the old fashioned catholic school girl junk. I worked at a school that allowed golf shirts in 3 or 4 different solid colors and khakis or jeans. That was IT. Most of the kids didn’t seem to mind and was really easy to enforce. If you saw a kid wandering around the hall in a pink shirt you just referred them to the nurse where they would get a “rental” green shirt. The end. Simple.

There is apparently plenty of evidence (look it up yourself) that students are more productive when they wear uniforms. A written dress code that tries to do all the things you mentioned is much too subjective.

@keobooks and @yarnlady That is the simple answer, for sure, but I don’t think public high schools are going to go to uniforms any time soon. The same parents whose kids come to school half naked and looking like idiots, also oppose school uniforms.

Uniforms create uniformity in bad ways as well. If you want easily programmed robots, but forget creativity, innovation, or individuality of any sort. You either get stagnation or rebellion, but rarely anything good.

@Skaggfacemutt – This was a public middle school. It was in a very poor—DIRT poor place in Florida with a lot of migrant workers and dirt poor people who couldn’t afford clothes to go to school. They enforced uniforms and then the poor kids could get free clothes from the school and not stand out. All the kids had to wear uniforms and you couldn’t tell who was getting free clothes (Well, I could because I noticed the kids with the free clothes always wore the same color all year and the “rich” kids would wear all 4 colors because they could buy 4 or more shirts)

It seems strange to me that a high school can’t enforce uniforms. When I pass our high school, all the students I see are wearing the uniform of their choice; blue jeans and t-shirts. If there are a few who don’t, perhaps they could use counseling.

The only real question is uniform vs. not-uniform. Once that decision is made, all the rest is, as you indicate, totally arbitrary. But once a uniform has been decided on, everyone must follow the rules set out, or what was the point in deciding to have a uniform in the first place?

I went to a public elementary school in Chicago that had uniforms. Not suit-and-tie uniforms, but navy pants and either navy or white polo shirts. Just count your blessings you can wear pretty much anything you want.

When you, a child, go to school, that school assumes responsibility for you. They have the right to have a dress code for the same reason they have the right to penalize you for acting a fool. I don’t think school dress codes are too much to ask for. If your boobs and ass aren’t hanging out, you’re pretty safe. Our high school dress code was shorts/skirts had to be at least finger-length when your arms were straight down and any shirt sleeve had to be at least two inches wide. So, no short-shorts and no spaghetti straps. What’s so difficult about that? I had no issue following school dress code and neither should anyone else. Cover it up – it’s school, not the beach.

Maybe it should be the parents’ responsibility, but these codes came about because these parents were allowing their kids to go to school dressed inappropriately.

Most of our schools whether pubic or private have uniforms. It make home life easier every morning as there are no arguments about what to wear.
I like this on one hand but it can be a bit too militant and doesn’t allow for personal expression but there is plenty of time for that outside of school time.

When I taught in Boston, the boys had to wear neckties. It set the linits for angry outbursts higher. If a kid got very angry, the first thing he did was to whip off his tie in fury, rather than hit or throw something. Worked very well, too.

My alternative school doesn’t have a strict dress code, and a lot of people basically dress like hookers.
The way I see it, if my mom approves of my outfit, it’s okay.

The high school I went to based its dress code on what their liability insurance covered…Students had to have footwear or they were not covered by insurance. That footwear could be flip flops or boots with crampons embedded in the soles, but that was pretty much the only strict rule. Our cheerleaders often showed up in sheer blouses that didn’t leave anything to the imagination.

My school has a ‘strict’ dress code. My History teacher hangs out in the halls between classes to catch anyone not following the rules, and if any pants are sagging he puts a zip tie on them. Any other dress code violations go to the Dean for re-evaluation.

I think dress code is important because it establishes limits. No decent person wishes to see someone else’s undergarments or cleavage. School is for learning and creating social connections. You can dress nice without looking like a hooker.

Who buys the clothes for most kids? If it’s the school’s job to tell them how to dress, the school can feed them and pay their medical expenses too.

Is it really that much easier to blame schools than parents?

I’m a high school student. I think dress codes are stupid. They don’t do anything to influence what kids wear. If one of the kids wants to break it, they will. Kids are going to dress how they want regardless of the dress code. The main factor that limits what they wear is their parents. And people should be able to dress however they want as self expression. They shouldn’t have to worry about getting penalized for expressing themselves.

In Australia almost all schools have uniforms and I think it is great. The more elite schools usually have blazers with skirts or shorts and knee socks. The regular schools have polo shirts with the school name on them and shorts or pull on pants. In the long run, it saves parents a lot of money, saves the arguments about whether an outfit is suitable for school and saves the school from having to act as a fashion counselor.

We are is aysteslta and my girls go to a private grammar school with blazer, tie etc and regulation ribbons and socks. The code is enforced probably a bit too zealously re socks etc but ’ thems the rules ’ the school tells their students they are ambassadors for the school community and they should wear the uniform with pride. Personally I think this is more of a marketing exercise but hey that’s ok too.
The school teaches great ethics in citizenship and the kids are great so perhaps their shared identity helps.
Our uniform looks the same as the warblers from the Glee series!!

Australia I mean !

The more I read here, the more I am disheartened by how many people value conformity and sameness above all else.

@rooeytoo The school should never need to act as a fashion counselor anyways. When I was in school, we had the same dress code as the real world, and it was just fine. If you dress inappropriately anywhere, there is a problem. What is it about schools that makes them so sacred that they must have higher standards?
And how does it save money anyways? Does the school actually provide the clothes absolutely free of charge? If so, is the school itself free, or do they bump up tuition to account for the uniforms, thus still costing one money?

@Arewethereyet Shared identity is possible without a dress code. If you need to wear the same clothes in order to develop a sense of unity, odds are that you have some sort of antisocial personality disorder. During my Navy years, I developed more of a shared identity by having the same living conditions as my fellow shipmates, not because we wore the same boots and coveralls. It wasn’t the
Learning ethics is likewise possible without a dress code. If you need to be told to not dress like a slut, maybe it would be better to teach the kid not to act like a slut and then have the wardrobe shift naturally; otherwise you just get a well-dressed slut.
Thinking that just ordering people to dress a certain way will fix other issues is, to my mind, optimistically delusional.

@jerv – let me tell you I wore a uniform to school for 12 years and I am about as non conformist as you can be. So your theory on uniforms forcing samness on kids doesn’t make it with me! Actually we were pretty much all individualists, we just wore the same clothes.

And here it saves money because the school polo and shorts can be purchased at numerous different stores at a price much less than the “name” brands such as Billabong, etc.

You are really into this one but to me it doesn’t seem like a big deal. Saves parents from having to buy polo shirts with the little ralphie polo horse on the front!

Hey @jerv I’m not asking to be bitten, not one little but, so what’s with the snarky comments? Are you trolling ? @rooeytoo and I are not saying uniforms make someone one thing or another they just make life easier whilst getting ready for school. Most schools in Australia have a uniform, it’s not a choice and we are not clones. It just makes early morning choices easier and keeps costs at a minimum. Of course we know wearing a uniform doesn’t teach a girl not to dress like a slut, I don’t even comprehend why you would think such a thing.
I don’t understand why you have your claws out? It’s just not that important!

I’m an advocate of dress codes or uniforms; there’re pros and cons to each. I see them as a tool to teach responsibility to kids.

I love the idea of uniforms, but it is never going to happen here. The parents will not let it pass. The Board of Education tried a few times to no avail. Our dress code does not get enforced. I feel bad making one student change clothes when there are a dozen that are wearing the same or worse and not getting hassled. I am ready to throw up my hands and put it back on the parents and the students themselves. If they want to wear gang attire, they are the ones that get the crap kicked out of them by rival gangs. If they dress like hookers, it’s their reputation – not mine. I am just tired of it. If the parents don’t care, why should I?

@rooeytoo @Arewethereyet I have my own opinions. If that is not welcome here then I will leave. Also note that Australia isn’t America. I only spent a couple of weeks there, but it only took a few minutes to figure out that Aussies are a more subdued, complacent lot, so it’s very well possible that our differing opinions are the result of different cultures.

@rooeytoo Buying non-name-brand clothing always saves money anyways. Hell, we even have a hit song about cheap clothes.
You don’t need a dress code to avoid buying overpriced designer labels; if you think you do then you fail at shopping.

@Arewethereyet Everybody has their hot-button issues. You may see this as a question about just clothes, but I don’t. I see it as a control issue; an attempt to subvert free will in order to program a new generation of drones. Unquestioningly obedient sheep, perfect for serving the ruling class.
As for why I would think that you would think that wearing a uniform teaches girls not to dress like sluts, most school dress codes here in the states are aimed at either that or getting rid of “gang” clothing

@Skaggfacemutt Precisely.

@Skaggfacemutt

“If the parents don’t care, why should I?” – Because it affects the other students. Gang colors are intimidating. That’s the whole point of wearing them. Girls that dress in super revealing clothes, are a distraction. That’s the whole point as well. There’s nothing wrong with individualism but it shouldn’t affect the other students that are trying to learn.

@jerv I see it as a control issue; an attempt to subvert free will Not so. School is for the education of children. Usually the school board is elected by the parents, and they act as agents for the parents. Just as Fluther has rules for the users to follow, so do most institutions. I have even heard of people being denied boarding on an airplane because of wearing inappropriate clothing.

In general, uniformity in schools improves performance. All students are required to complete the same homework assignments, and sit in the same desks, and speak the same language. There is room for freedom of expression at appropriate times and places, for children as well as adults.

There is no expectation of complete free will in every situation.

@jerv – I lived in USA for 50 couple years and that is where I wore uniforms to school. And after being here 15 years now, I don’t think your assessment of relative complacency is particularly accurate. A few weeks does not an expert make!

@Jaxk That is an argument for a dress code for society in general. Of course, there are already laws regarding public indecency, and in certain places, wearing gang colors will invite unwanted attention from (amongst others) the authorities.

@YARNLADY If by “elected” you mean “they’re already there and haven’t pissed me off, so I’ll just give vote for them”, then yes. Also, my academic performance declined considerably when the schools tried to make this square peg fit in a round hole, but soared to high honor roll when they just ignored my quirky attitude and dress and just focused on academics. Same deal with my Navy years and work life; I do better work and more of it when there is no pressure to conform.

@rooeytoo Such are the problems of hitting many destinations for short times; it leads to knowledge that is broader than it is deep. Having actually lived in all four corners of the 48 states and visiting other parts though, I would submit that no place is uniform anyways; Perth and Sydney seemed almost like different countries, and the same holds true of the US.
Just curious; how many of those years were spent in the Northeast or Seattle, and how many in more conservative places, like anywhere else in the US? Experience colors perception.

@jerv I’m confused. Did you find a Navy that doesn’t require uniforms? My son was in the Navy, and I did volunteer work for the U. S. Naval Sea Cadets, a teen group sponsored by the U. S. Navy, and they were required to wear various dress and work uniforms. The soldiers had to form up for assembly every morning, and follow very strict rules regarding their behavior all day long. My was son put in detention several times for disregarding the rules, and finally discharged.

Here in our area, the school board is an elected position, and we vote for the people who choose to run. When I cared about that sort of thing, years ago, I ran for the school board, but I was not elected. I then became a parent volunteer with a lot of input in to the rules.

@YARNLADY The uniform wasn’t what brought us together. In fact, as a part of Engineering, I didn’t wear standard uniforms for my daily work anyways; Engineers wore something different than airdales, who wore different tops from the regular “blue-shirts”, and E-7 and above had their own uniforms, so there wasn’t really much uniformity in the dress code. About the only constant was a prohibition against beards…. unless you had a medical excuse (a “no-shave” chit), though even a quarter-inch of stubble was often ignored for those of us who worked such long hours that there wasn’t time to shave.
Training commands are different as they are all about conformity. No original thought allowed; just follow SOP as written, to the letter. Aside from the name printed over your breast pocket, you are not allowed to be different in any way. Suffice it to say that I had a rough time of things in training, but once I hit the fleet and started operating under real-world rules, and I no longer spent two hours a day doing nothing but uniform maintenance, everything improved.

Dealing with the real world is different from some isolated bubble where all that matters is sameness and interchangeability. And schools are there to prepare kids for the really real world, so why make a fuss about something that won’t matter? Why not enforce a different type of standardization, like making sure the kids graduate knowing how to add, spell, and avoid contracting STDs?

Lastly, my point was that “elected” has different connotations depending on the degree of voter apathy.

@jerv wrote “And schools are there to prepare kids for the really real world, so why make a fuss about something that won’t matter?”

Precisely! The real world has rules, regulations, and laws that we must observe if we wish to be a functioning member. The real world has time clocks, company dress policies, and voluminous HR manuals. Having and enforcing rules in schools improves the educational process and prepares students for what they will encounter post-school. As adults, if we are in a position where we can voluntarily stay or leave, we can assess the bullshit level of those policies and choose whether to participate.

If we have no option to leave a structured environment, such as school or military service, the rules may seem crude, stupid, conformist, and a waste of time. Having an understanding of why those policies exist helps make them more tolerable when we disagree. Spit shining boots, polishing brass, making a tight bunk, folding boxers to an exact width, and starched uniforms evenly spaced on the rack, were less about making everyone conform, and more about training people to follow orders. Soldiers were taught to follow orders in a safe environment so that they would follow orders without question on the battlefield, where their lives depended on doing what they were told. It’s my observation that the farther removed a service person’s job is from the battlefield or extremely dangerous environment, the less emphasis there is on ‘conforming’.

I think teaching kids in school to obey rules should be part of the education process: Here are the rules; if you choose to disobey them, here are the consequences. Just like in real life. Dress codes aren’t about making kids into identical robots, they’re about teaching them to adjust to rules and consequences. Whenever I hear about a school or school district that turns around a failing school program, one factor that seems to be common is an emphasis on structure (rules and discipline). Eliminating the distractions of crazy hair, clothes, and cell phones creates an environment that is more conducive to focusing on studies.

I don’t think that clothing conformity stifles creativity. Don’t we have to learn to think in numerous environments, regardless of our attire? I get wonderful creative insights when I’m in the shower. Some people get them while running or listening to music or getting high. Good teachers can stimulate creative thinking in any environment that is free of distractions. Granted, it might not be the perfect setting for every single student, but there are limits to the teachers’ options. Besides, each business that constructs a ‘creative environment’ for its employees tailors the environment to match the needs of the employees. They’re all different.

As to making a fuss about what matters and what doesn’t, that is a discussion that has been going on forever about everything that a school does. Whether it’s clothing, being tardy, attending pep rallies, teaching Mythology, or having gym and art classes, relevancy is in the eye of the beholder. Nobody knows the real life value of their school experience until they live their real life. Most public schools have students with diverse economic and cultural backgrounds, and try to prepare them for anything in the real world. Whether the students become artists, engineers, or ditch diggers, the one thing they will have in common is adjusting to rules, regulations, and laws.

@bossob The rules at schools and the rules of the real world are a bit different. Both require one to be on time, but that is about it. Of course, a bit depends on how strict the rules are. Most jobs I’ve had have a dress code, but a rather liberal one;steel toes, glasses, and hearing protection. Beyond that, anything goes, provided it doesn’t break any laws, so you won’t see anyone walking around with “I hate niggers!” T-shirts or anything like that.

As for rules and consequences, what are parents for? I don’t know about you, but I learned more about the consequences of breaking rules from my mother than from any teacher or LCPO. Note that many of the companies that go for a creative environment are pretty lax?

But at the end of the day, there is no escaping the simple fact that opinions are generally formed by personal experience. Since my life has been different from many people in this thread, my opinion is going to be different as well.

@jerv what are parents for; if all parents were responsible, caring people who actually had children because they wanted them and were qualified to raise them, we wouldn’t need any of these rules. Unfortunately, we don’t live in a perfect world.

I have heard that some people have actually been killed because they wore the wrong color clothing. This is not an urban myth.

There is a serious issue of for and against abortion and gay people in school, as well. At our local high school, a group of students, led by adults, stand across the street with signs and t-shirts that say nasty, ugly things about gays, and about abortion. They are often given citations by the local police for having a rally on public streets without a permit.

Why should we allow the school to be disrupted by allowing children to wear such clothing and carry such signs inside the school grounds?

I get it. Authority is always benevolent and competent, rules are always good; the stricter the better. I am wrong, and my entire life has been utterly abnormal so my opinions are invalid. Got it.

You left out parents are always perfect and every person you meet is honest and caring.