General Question

MagicalMystery's avatar

Do you think our society has less respect for obese people?

Asked by MagicalMystery (890 points ) June 20th, 2010

Do you think our society has a lack of respect and cynical attitude toward obese people? I ask because physical fitness, youth and sex appeal seem to have become such a part of our culture, i wonder if you think we have a negative attitude toward obesity.

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294 Answers

dpworkin's avatar

Absolutely. Obese people are the last minority not exempt from public excoriation. Obesity is ill-understood, but in folklore it is a matter of will and/or self-control. The obese are blamed for their obesity – other than the antediluvian views of some homophobes, no other minority is blamed for its own status.

bunnygrl's avatar

Yes. Most definitely. People make assumptions without even bothing to look beyond a person’s physical appearance. A fat person = someone who is stupid, lazy, greedy etc. It makes me so incredibley angry I could just scream!! Then there are the stereotypes… don’t even get me started! A fat person is jolly and laughs all the time. Speaking for myself, a fat person is neither happy nor jolly and if anyone took the time to look behind the eyes of the person they’re so happily making fun of they might see the pain they’re in physically and emotionally.
hugglys xx
edit: @dpworkin GA as usual <hugs>

john65pennington's avatar

For some people, being obese is a medical condition. this is understood and accepted, once society is made aware. other obese situations are self-oriented either within a family or a gene condition. you will never see an obese person in Victoris Secret or GQ Magazine.

LuckyGuy's avatar

Yes. On an airplane would you prefer to sit next to an obese person or a thin person?
If you work on an ambulance would you rather the patient was thin or obese? Does a surgeon prefer thin or obese? All things being equal would you rather date thin or obese?. The list is endless.

Keysha's avatar

As someone that is clinically obese, I can say without a doubt, that society tends to look down on us. It is blatantly visible when we have to pay for 2 seats on a plane, because we fill one more than society considers norm. When we go to amusement parks and are told we cannot ride rides because of our weight, and when, for some of us not me, thank goodness we have to duck around turnstyles instead of passing through them, because we do not fit.

Even with that, the worst are the people themselves. Those that drive by and call us names, those that make snide remarks to their friends, when they see those of us that need it, park in a handicapped zone,. Those that feel our obesity is simply because we are fat, lazy, pigs.

We aren’t always. Yes, in some cases we are, but not, by any means, always. And society is not just less respectful, they are pushing obesity on us. Fast food meals are getting bigger. The calorie and fat content is getting higher. The foods that poor people can afford are the ones that put weight on, and don’t give much true nutrition, so we don’t have the energy to work it off. More channels on tv, to encourage us to sit on our butts. Many channels about food and cooking. Video games where you do not have to do much, just sit and play.

Arisztid likes the ‘tavern wench’ look in a woman. He wants curves. He pointed something out to me, more than once. If you are old enough to remember the actress Mae West, think of her popularity and her figure. Today she would be considered obese. Back then, she was a sex symbol.

Sad.

BoBo1946's avatar

Yes! It is a medical condition that can be controlled by exercise and diet.

warwickmcghee's avatar

obesity could be interpreted as a sign of one’s low self control and/or genetic inferiority.
it may be associated with low socio-economic status too, as junk food (a common source of weight problems) is generally ‘cheaper’ and one who includes junk food as a part of their everyday diet may be seen as ‘lazy’

but it is also in the way in which an obese person carries themsleves plays a major part in anothers judgement of them. an obese person who comes across as insecure would no doubt be judged harsher.

i imagine mankind has always made quick superficial judgements on eachother, particularly with strangers or people we wouldnt associate on personal or significant levels. if ethics weren’t at play in our behaviour, why would one spend time analysing one’s true personality when you don’t need to?

Facade's avatar

Yes. Obese people appear lazy and uncaring. Those characteristics aren’t attractive to most people.

meagan's avatar

Absofreakinglutely.
I was an overweight teenager. I ate crap. Americans eat crap. Its a fact!
Too many of us impulse buy candy, and not enough of us think that we have enough time to “cook”. But I got off my fat ass and did something about it. Now I enjoy eating right and exercise. I actually enjoy exercise!

Exercise and diet is key, like @BoBo1946 said. I have a full time job but can visit the gym at least twice a week. And if youre obese you NEED to exercise. You need to take responsibility for yourself. If youre an emotional eater, go to a group meeting. Join a support group. GET HELP. Join a website support group. There is no reason to let your body spiral out of control. You only have one body. Take care of it! Set a good example for your children and the next generation!

I don’t have less “respect” for obese people because of their “lack of sex appeal”, but because of the way theyre treating their bodies. Sex appeal is all about self confidence. Who cares about fitting a mold. But BE HEALTHY.

Anyone can list excuses for what society is doing. Can’t afford a gym? Take a walk down the street. Lift bottles of washing machine detergent. Do squats. Visit a state park and hike. No one is forcing you to eat fast food. Just because everything is supersized doesn’t mean that they are forcing you to order off of the menu. AND if youre using the “I’m too poor to afford healthy food” excuse, HOW DO YOU HAVE MONEY TO SPEND ON FAST FOOD?

I’m sorry. But everything can be fixed. There are so many websites and support groups to help people. There aren’t any reasons that aren’t medical to be obese. Obviously there are too many enablers. Don’t complain about how people label you and say you can’t do something – prove them wrong, get up, and get healthy.

BoBo1946's avatar

@meagan i’ve to work my a** off to keep my weigh down! Also, have to eat a lot of food that i perfer not to eat. i eat a lot of fish, chicken, etc. and try to stay away from red meat. and i love red meat!

meagan's avatar

@BoBo1946 Exactly, its all about sacrifice. But if anything has any value, you’ve got to work hard for it.

Facade's avatar

@meagan Good, nutritious food is indeed out of reach to a lot of people. $5 can either buy you a few pieces of fruit and a couple ounces of whole grains, or it can feed a family of four at any fast food joint. It’s very sad.

JLeslie's avatar

@Keysha I am interested in your comment about paying for two airline seats. You think that is discriminating against obese people? That it implies the airline is looking down on an overweight person?

ninja_man's avatar

Generally speaking, yes. Obesity is viewed as a sign of laziness, being only rarely the result of an uncontrollable health disorder. However, it should be noted that our society also has some skewed views about what ‘healthy’ means in relation to body weight.

KatawaGrey's avatar

Obese people are absolutely lacking respect in American society and I am sick of it. If someone is considered obese, but does not necessarily have health problems I am not necessarily talking about the morbidly obese who are called “morbidly obese” for a reason say, someone who is fifty or sixty pounds overweight, I think we should leave that person alone. As @dpworkin said, except for homosexuals, no other group is constantly told to change to fit the ideas of everyone else. Racists don’t tell black people to dye their hair blonde and get their skin lightened. Male chauvinists don’t tell women to grow a penis and chop off their breasts. However, it is perfectly reasonable even on this thread about how the obese lack respect in our society to tell an obese person to “just exercise and eat right.” In short, I think it’s bull shit.

As @Facade has said, seriously healthy food can be expensive unless you happen to live on a farm and exercise is not necessarily conducive to a working adult’s lifestyle unless your work is in a manual labor field. What about parents? When you have kids running around who need to be fed, are you going to pay a lot to give them a small amount of food or pay a little to give them a lot? Furthermore, if you have a 4-year-old, a 7-year-old and a 10-year-old running around, when are you going to go to the gym? You can’t go while they’re in school because you’re at work. You can’t go once they’re back from school because you have to be looking after them.

I don’t understand why it’s okay to tell overweight people to just lose the weight, even if you’re doing it out of concern for their health. I don’t like the way a lot of people look but instead of telling them to alter their appearance to suit my ideals, I just don’t look at them or, if I must make a comment, I wait until I am out of earshot of those people. For example, I would never tell a guy with a large facial tattoo that unless he’s a Maori tribesman, he looks ridiculous. Nor would I tell an overweight person to just eat healthy and lose the weight.

I feel the need to cite my own mother. She is definitely overweight, but she has one of those metabolisms that adjusts to whatever she eats. If she eats less than she usually does, her metabolism slows down. She is not unhealthy and in fact is solid muscle under the marshmallow. She does everything around the house which includes a lot of manual labor such as stacking and chopping the firewood in the winter, a lot of yard work in the summer and putting together large pieces of furniture.

meagan's avatar

@Facade $5 can also make a casserole to feed your family. The possibilities of ways to stretch $5 to feed your family is endless.
But if you only have $5 to feed your family, I don’t think you should have a family to begin with. What did Michael Jackson say? Can’t feed your baby, don’t have a baby?

To be “healthy” you don’t have to spend a crap load of money. Just count your fat and calories. No one is asking you to go on an all salad diet.

Merriment's avatar

Yes, I do think they are subject to judgment, just like everybody else who is less than the Hollywood ideal..

And in many cases it is unfair/undeserved.

And in other cases it is a natural reaction to the frustration that comes from watching an obese person make poor personal choices while blaming “society”.

I apparently have the metabolism of a sloth…and everyday I have to make the choice NOT to eat fast food or to control my portion size. If I don’t, I put on weight. I don’t blame society or the fast food joints for my propensity to gain weight if I overeat. I just accept that, for me, there is no such thing as “fast food” since eating it means I will be exercising till the cows come home.

Fast food isn’t cheaper. It’s faster but not cheaper. And recent changes to the WIC type programs means that poor people are receiving more fruits and vegetables in their allotments.

As for the airlines judging obese people by requiring they buy a second ticket that’s just silly. For years they were too polite about it and left their other paying customers to suffer the consequences of their PC approach. Rising obesity rates put an end to that.

It isn’t judgment if you must purchase a second mailbox or a storage unit because the space is just too damn small to accommodate all your junk. It’s the reality. Same is true for airplane seats.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Yes, although it’s seldom justified.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@Merriment: I actually agree with you on the airplane ticket point because if the plane is too heavy, it simply won’t fly. However, I think that bodybuilders who weigh a huge amount should have to buy two tickets as well.

Facade's avatar

@meagan It is well known that poorer people have more children. They shouldn’t, but that’s just the culture.

Merriment's avatar

@KatawaGrey – I agree that anybody or anything that exceeds a weight limit should be charged an airline surcharge. Airlines are having to do if for weighty baggage and I don’t think anybody is accusing the airlines of not respecting hefty suitcases.

UScitizen's avatar

In my experience, the entire office has gone ass backwards to accomodate the “obese” person. No one was giving any “shit” to the 400 pounder. Everyone was going out of his/her way to accomodate the “special” needs of the obese person.

JLeslie's avatar

@KatawaGrey It is more about the space not the weight of the plane. Although, true the weight does affect the amount of fuel used, but then we have to look at total weight, person plus luggage.

The person you mention with 3 children, the problem with that example is that people had three or more children 50 years ago also, and we were not obese then.

Do people actually just go up to obese people and say, “just eat right and exercise.” My father is overweight, and I don’t think anyone just walks up to him, and I don’t think any of his friends say anything either. My mom certainly tells him to stop eating when he is overeating. But, he wants to lose weight. He knows he has a problem.

meagan's avatar

@Facade True, but I worked for a company with a lot of “work at home moms” for a while, and they would share things like ”$10 dinners”, ways to make your dollars stretch and still make a healthy meal for your family. Nothing is impossible. People are gorging on junk food because they aren’t educated on how to stretch the dollar or maybe they just love their sweets too much. If these people can afford cable TV and the internet, they probably shouldn’t complain about not being able to afford things to take care of themselves. Health > entertainment.

Facade's avatar

@meagan My comments may have been misunderstood. I completely agree with everything concerning how it’s not impossible to be healthy if you try. I’m just pointing out the difficulties that a lot of people in these situations do not want to deal with.

meagan's avatar

@Facade Got it. Lurve lurve ;P

KatawaGrey's avatar

@JLeslie: Food was also less expensive fifty years ago. Also, I know that people don’t just walk up to random obese people and tell them to exercise, but how often can an obese person go out to dinner without getting disgusted looks or over-hearing nasty comments. Also, you completely missed the point I made about non-morbidly obese people getting all sorts of bad treatment as well. Unless someone has a “perfect” body, they are treated badly, not as badly as the morbidly obese, but still badly. How is it fair that a perfectly healthy, active person who weighs 50 pounds more than everyone else thinks they should is treated badly?

reverie's avatar

I can’t speak for others, but for me personally, what I find challenging about obesity (and to be honest, it’s something that bothers me in general), is people who look to everything, except themselves, to blame for their own condition. Obviously, just looking at an overweight person in the street cannot tell you anything about their feelings about their weight, and so I would think it was wrong to judge an individual in that way, but from things I have read and conversations I have had, it is the responsibility-dodging attitude that bothers me. Obviously, without talking to an individual, there’s no way of knowing what their feelings are, so for me, individual judgements are not helpful ones, but this is the reason that I generally find the obesity issue troubling. With that said, it goes without saying that I would think it ridiculous and inappropriate to approach individual people and make comments about their size, or tell them what to do.

I have all of the respect in the world for overweight folks who are actively doing what they can to become healthier, happier people, whether that’s something physical, like starting a healthy eating plan or exercise regimen, or whether it’s something psychological, like addressing their relationship with food that has caused them to become heavier. I can’t say I have a whole lot of respect for someone who makes excuses and complains that healthy food is “expensive” or that they don’t have the time to move around a little more (e.g., jogging up and down stairs instead of moving slowly, walking to the shops instead of driving, etc – surely some adjustment, no matter how small, is possible?). I guess it concerns me that for something as serious as obesity, people can sometimes be that dishonest with themselves.

I am not a medical professional by any means, but from what little reading I have done on the topic, I would agree that there are certain conditions that cause people to gain weight. I just fail to believe that in the last fifty years or so, a “medical condition” has suddenly reached epidemic proportions such that it affects huge portions of the population and “causes” people to become really fat. Moreover, a number of conditions that are associated with obesity are just that – associated with it. The condition doesn’t always “cause” the obesity, but obesity can be an associated symptom, and I believe that if you are diagnosed with a condition that may mean you gain weight more easily than most folks, I’m afraid that’s something you’ve just got work with, and try extra hard to make sure that you eat well and exercise regularly.

I used to be obese (around 16 stone / 225lbs). There were lots of reasons I became that way – I enjoyed the taste of unhealthy foods, I didn’t have good willpower when it came to controlling my own portions, I comfort ate in secret following my parents separation and my mother’s subsequent death. In the end I managed to loose weight until my weight became in the normal, healthy range for my height. When I see people that were the size I was a few years ago, that decide to blame everything external before looking at what they can do, then yes, that does make me respect them less, not because of what they look like or what size they are, but because they avoid taking personal responsibility for things that they can control. Having been an obese person who is now a “normal” weight, I have to say it actually makes me feel even more strongly about this issue than before.

As for the food price issue, here in the UK, convenience food or fast food, even towards the budget end of the scale, is undoubtedly more expensive than buying the raw ingredients themselves. I hear the “I can’t afford to eat healthily” thing all the time and I absolutely know that is false, at least in the country I live in. I just bought a 2kg bag of fresh potatoes for £1 (about $1.50USD). This can provide the bulk of about 10 meals with decent portions for me. In the cheapest of cheap supermarkets, you’d pay £1 for the worst quality unhealthy ready meal, that serves one. Similarly, I can buy a pack of four turkey breast steaks for around £3 ($4.50 USD), which will again provide the lean protein for 4–6 meals. As for the exercise thing, why do people feel that a gym is in any way essential? I could probably make time for the gym (but I don’t – I dislike gyms!), so I make sure that every day I park a little further from my work and walk the 10 minutes to my office briskly, so as to raise my heart rate. I do other little things too, like take a brisk walk in the evening after I’ve eaten dinner. People have been fit and healthy for many years before gyms even existed, and I really believe that pretty much everyone can make some adjustment to their physical movements in a day that would cause them some health benefit.

To finish, verbally or physically abusing someone who is obese is clearly completely unacceptable. Having said that, the opposite to that isn’t that people shouldn’t have any negative thoughts about someone who appears to be physically and mentally abusing themselves, or someone who fails to take responsibility for their own actions.

Facade's avatar

@KatawaGrey They should not be treated badly, but I refuse to believe that a person can be perfectly healthy at 50lbs overweight. I’m only about 10lbs heavier than I need to be, and I feel like shit.

janbb's avatar

As I said in another thread, I am actively getting less and less judgmental as I get older. I do agree that our society still finds it acceptable to stigmatize the obese, and as I have come to learn more about the issue and to know people who have dealt with obesity, I cringe at the thought of some of my earlier reactions.

dpworkin's avatar

I think it’s quite arrogant that some of you feel free to post as if you knew how to control obesity, when actually it is something that continues to baffle medical science. What the experts all can and do agree is that it is an extremely complex phenomenon, and that it is ugly and short-sighted to allow blame to accrue to the individual.

Facade's avatar

@dpworkin I don’t understand what’s so baffling. Isn’t it just a mix of genetics, poor eating, and a lack of mobility (with an allowance for the small percentage of people who actually have a medical condition which causes them to be obese)?

Seaofclouds's avatar

From my personal experience it does seem like a lot of people look down on obese people or just assume that it is their own fault. I know a few people that are overweight that started eating more healthily and exercising but it wasn’t working. After a while of trying, they finally went to the doctor and found out that they had problems with their thyroid levels. After adding thyroid medication to their healthy eating and exercise they were able to start seeing results. Sometimes there are medical conditions behind it and sometimes there aren’t, but none of us would be able to tell which ones are which just by looking at the person.

In general, there are a lot of things in society that have affected our weight. We use much larger portion sizes than people did 50 years ago and overall we are a lot less active (in general). Our dinnerware is also much bigger now than it was 50 years ago. We teach children to fill their plates instead of what an actual serving size should be. Then we wonder why so many children are overweight and developing diabetes at such young ages.

reverie's avatar

@dpworkin I don’t quite understand your post – how do you mean that controlling obesity “baffles medical science” when so many people have successfully lost weight? Surely this isn’t something that those people just do at random, in a completely uninformed way – many people modify their diets and exercise and lose weight, which is something that doctors recommend and something that seems to work for a lot of folks. Obviously everyone is unique and has unique circumstances, and for many reasons, some find it much harder to lose weight than others, but surely there are at least some things that we know, for most people, will result in successful weight loss (e.g., modifications to diet, and increased physical activity)? Are we not to recommend these methods to others because they don’t seem to work for everybody? Or should we just assume that everybody that remains obese does so because those methods don’t work? I think both of those things wouldn’t be very helpful.

@Seaofclouds I agree that societal changes aren’t conducive to healthy diets for many people, but people aren’t obese because portions are bigger and because dinnerware is bigger. People can become overweight when they choose to eat those large portions and fill those plates up – can you see how personal responsiblity is the key there? If personal choice didn’t play a role, how come there isn’t 100% obesity in the USA now, rather than around 30%?

nikipedia's avatar

@meagan: It breaks my heart to see such ignorance and judgment here at Fluther. Obese people are just making excuses? There are no medical reasons for obesity?

Obesity is a serious medical condition and it is literally one of the most intractable conditions in modern society. Just because you personally managed to lose weight doesn’t mean that everyone else on the planet is capable of doing so!

Losing weight and keeping it off is actually incredibly difficult, and 90 to 95% of people who lose weight gain it back. To me that suggests that this is not a simple problem with a simple solution.

Obesity has a great number of causes, some of them physical and some of them social. No one wants to be obese (well, almost no one) so if it was just a matter of taking the stairs at working and switching from ho-hos to apples this would not be so endemic.

Biological systems are highly adaptable, so small to moderate changes in exercise and calorie consumption can make zero difference. The American College of Sports Medicine suggests that to lose weight, overweight or obese people may need to exercise sixty to ninety minutes five times per week.

This is not a trivial amount of time or energy. On my best weeks I average about 6 hours of exercise per week, and even that is enough to cause blisters, tendinitis, and general overtraining fatigue, not to mention I have to schedule my entire life around my exercise schedule.

I certainly endorse the idea of encouraging people who are obese to make healthy life changes, like exercising more and eating healthier food. But blaming them for their situation is exactly the kind of disrespect that caused this question to be posted in the first place, and it saddens me to see that in a community that is usually so warm and accepting.

meagan's avatar

@nikipedia You need to re-read what I’ve said. I’ve never said there is no medical reason for obesity.

But I’m sure that it breaks my heart even more to know that there are so many unhealthy people in the world. No one deserves being robbed of their health. And as I’ve said in one of my earlier posts, there are many support groups. AA even supports emotional eaters in their circle. Because food can be an addiction. Anyone that needs help losing the weight can find help, anywhere around the world.

And this “sixty to ninety minutes five times per week“of exercise to lose weight – is bullshit. All you have to do is visit a website like sparkpeople.com or thedailyplate.com and they’ll tell you exactly what to do. How and when to exercise, what and how much to eat. I can exercise three times a week, eat 1,200 calories a day, and still lose a pound a week. This isn’t asking much. Not to mention obese people will lose faster than smaller people. More excuses, bring them on! ( I may be ignorant, but if you exercise so much and are so health consumed, why are your interests beer and wine? You can’t drink and lose weight at the same time. Its basically impossible.)

Seaofclouds's avatar

@reverie I agree that there is personal responsibility, I’m saying it’s a lack of education. Many people don’t know what a proper serving size is. Many parents tell children to fill their plate instead of explaining what a proper serving size it and don’t even realize that they are teaching their child to overeat from the beginning. Some people are overweight from overeating. Yes they choose to eat that much, but for a lot of people it is a choice they make based on how they were raised and from not realizing that they are overeating.

nikipedia's avatar

Okay, I apologize for misreading that line, but the rest of my post stands. I am not impressed by the judgment or ignorance expressed in your post.

James_Mal's avatar

It’s a yes or no answer. Yes.

reverie's avatar

@Seaofclouds Yes I totally agree with you there. You’re quite right, in the sense that if from childhood you are given huge portions, encouraged to eat loads of snacks, and so on, that it would be a huge challenge (much more so) than if you were raised in an environment where your parents were more mindful of appropriate portion sizes and so on.

@nikipedia I might have misunderstood you, but if we don’t put any personal responsibility on obese individuals at all, in any case (you could call that “blaming”, although that is quite a negatively loaded word), don’t you think that completely removes that individual’s sense of control and power over their own condition? I think a number of people have said that there are undoubtedly some medical conditions that hamper weight loss or cause weight gain, but I think if we resign ourselves to the mantra of obesity being really difficult/impossible to control and something that most people fail at, don’t you think that could be a little fatalistic? I think that leaving the obese person feeling as though they have very little personal responsibility for their weight would be really negative, because whilst responsibility has its negative side, it’s generally an empowering and positive thing.

Keysha's avatar

As far as the airlines, I find it funny that I can sit in one seat, at a movie theater, a concert, or anywhere else, without impinging on anyone beside, in front of, or behind me, yet the airlines feel they can charge me for two seats. Do they have me sit in a seat to see how I fit? No. they simply have a general idea of what they consider obese, and each employee has a different view. If you, in their opinion, are too big, just by looking at you standing there, wearing whatever clothing, you have to pay for two.

Eating right, when poor, is not really possible. I am not even saying they go for fast food, although many do. Fast food, you say, is not cheaper? Pay $1 for a double cheesburger or go pay around $2 for a pound of hamburger, $1 for a package of buns, $2 or more for a package of cheese, count in the condiments, the gas or electric to fry the meat, or the charcoal and fluid to grill it, and you find it IS cheaper to buy it. You also have to realize that those that are poor that do NOT eat fast food, still have to stretch their budget. I can buy a 15 pound bag of potatoes, for $2, or I can buy a pound of spinach. I can buy 5 pounds of burger for $10, or I can buy 2 pieces of fresh fish (maybe). Fresh, healthy food, is more expensive.

And it becomes vital, when you are on expensive meds on a fixed income. The tales of elderly eating pet food is not fake. When you have to choose to get needed meds or eat, what do you do?

As far as exercise, @meagan pretty much showed the lack of respect society has. Take me, for example. I have a blown knee and am on crutches frequently for that. How do I walk the neighborhood when the doctor says not to do too much walking. my insurance does not cover the needed knee replacement I have arthritis in my back, my shoulders, my hips, and my hands. Between that and the knee, my exercise choices are limited.

I also, for over a year and a half now, have been in and out of the hospital with surgeries. Jan of last year, I had 44 staples in my abdomen after a cyst was removed. That one healed ok, but within two months, I was again in pain. Dr checked me out, found nothing, repeatedly. Then discovered a ‘mass’ in my abdomen. Again. So March of this year, another surgery. A complete hysterectomy, removal of a massive amount of scar tissue, clipping some adhesions, and removing a large pocked of blood. A week later, I was back in the hospital, spiking a fever (rose 3 degrees in half an hour). A CT scan showed a hernia on my left side. A large one. So for a month, I did very little, so as to not make it worse.

End of May (a month and 2 days after my last surgery) I was back under the knife. After an 8-hour surgery, my entire left side is meshed. I am missing 10 inches of my small intestine, and have been on antibiotics now, 3 times. The first, was one of the strongest out there, and since I am poor, I could not afford it. My doctor intervened, and I got a bottle of the IV version of it (vancomyacin) which I had to take a syringe and drink 250cc’s 4 times a day. I had 2 drains in my side for over 5 weeks. Got them out, and, less than 3 weeks later, have 2 more drains in the other side. I had a build-up of fluid at the bottom of my abdomen, and an abscess just above the mesh, about the size of a large grapefuit.

So tell me, those of you that say anyone can exercise how? How am I supposed to? Or those that have serious medical conditions, like a friend I used to have who had a hole in her heart that was inoperable. She was on the waiting list for a heart transplant. Yet, because she did not have a visible, blatant handicap, when she (weighing about 350) got out of her van, people would make snide remarks, often directly to her, about ‘fat is not a handicap, why don’t you park way out there and walk up, you might lose weight.

People that judge others without knowing their circumstances make me sick. They are often the same ones that ‘do not want to pay for your health care.

meagan's avatar

@Keysha The fattest man in the world loses weight by dancing in his bed. Seriously. Any exercise is good exercise.

dpworkin's avatar

@Facade Not at all. it has to do with metabolism, the interplay of hormones, polygenetics, history, social forces, and a now maladaptive evolutionary response to famine, along with many, many other things, many of them entirely unknown.

Edit: Thanks and regards to @nikipedia.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Facade They don’t appear that way to many of us.

JLeslie's avatar

@KatawaGrey 50 pounds overweight is not healthy. And, I see almost the opposite happening, that 30 pounds overweight is beginning to look “normal” to people, and it is affecting society negatively in my opinion. I don’t judge overweight people, we all have our difficulties. If I had studied more in school, been more focused in my career, I would be making more money. I also have a personal matter that for some reason I am sort of mentally stuck, and it affects me accomplishing something very important in my life, we all have things we could have done or could do differently.

I do admit that I am turned off by someone who has their plate piled super-high at the buffet line fat or thin. So when you talk about stares in restaurants, I admit I might have done that when I look at a plate that is loaded, but if the overweight person had a regular plate, I probably would not give it a second thought. Or, if I notice someone consume incredibly fatty food with cheese sauces and deep fried in large quantities I think that is disgusting no matter how big the person is, when my husband does it every so often I want him to stop, and he is thin. I hate when he orders cheese fries with bacon and then follows it with a steak and loaded potato. I am not saying obese people always order fatty meals, I am only commenting on what you said about the disgusted looks in restaurants, I might be disgusted by the food being consumed. I am disgusted that restaurants serve such enormous portions and have the gall to call a side dish steamed green beans when they are drenched in butter (Outback Steakhouse).

Heavy people do not stand out much for me. As I said I grew up with my father being fat, and I know he is an intelligent, accomplished, loving person.

I believe you when you say that overweight people are treated badly at times, I just know that I am not staring, if I do, for the reason you might think.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@JLeslie: Good for you. Really, I’m not being sarcastic, but you are a rarity. Many people who give nasty looks to the overweight in restaurants do it because those people are eating.

It seems to me that people are unhappy with the overweight simply because they don’t like the way these people look which is ridiculous.

Also, how do you know that someone who is fifty pounds overweight is not healthy? I’d much rather be fifty pounds overweight than fifty pounds underweight.

Facade's avatar

@Keysha Don’t get too defensive. If a person has reasons, legitimate reasons as to why they cannot exercise, then fine. But those people can cut calories to balance out the lack of exercise they can do.
@dpworkin But eating well and exercising can help most people. I stand by that.
@Simone_De_Beauvoir Ok
@JLeslie I don’t know why anyone would fault a person for going “what the hell?” when they see an obese person or anyone else eating a pile of junk on a plate. It’s self abuse and irresponsible. I was always made fun of for the small portions I would eat because everyone else was shoveling it in. That’s bass ackwards.
@KatawaGrey Why go to either extreme?

nikipedia's avatar

@meagan: Feel free to trust sparkpeople.com over the ACSM. One of them bases their judgments on the opinions of people on the internet; the other one is based on peer-reviewed scientific literature.

Also I have specifically avoided making personal attacks and I would appreciate it if you would do the same. I would be happy to share my meal plans and training schedule with you (I keep detailed spreadsheets) if you would really like to vet them and judge my worth as a person based on those data; however, please be aware that weight loss is not currently one of my goals.

meagan's avatar

@nikipedia Seeing as websites like sparkpeople.com help thousands of people every day lose weight (many of them obese) yes, I am trusting that website. I’ve used it for years and have always gotten results. They also have support groups for anything you could need.

Sixty to ninety minutes five times per week is an unrealistic goal for people that are out of shape to begin with. Don’t you think that will discourage them from exercise? Its all about baby steps. Any step in the right direction is a good step. I may be “ignorant”, but I don’t think someone that is interested in losing an Olsen twin is ready to work out that much.
(Am I seriously having to argue the point of introducing people to a healthy lifestyle right now?)

JLeslie's avatar

@Facade Yes, that is my concern. Overeating becoming so normal, statistically normal, that people who eat smaller portions are actually ridiculed.

@KatawaGrey Do you mean simply eating, no matter what they eat?

50 pounds overweight is not healthy. Even if all of your tests and numbers are normal now, they are still statisically more likely to get screwy at a younger age. Along with needing hip and knee replacement and other things.

Keysha's avatar

@meagan The fattest man in the world may do that. Does he have two drains in his abdomen, one draining pus? Does he spike a temperature when he does anything? You are, to me, very offensive, because you are like a newly made Christian or a new non-smoker. You feel that since you could do it, everyone can, and you think you have all the answers. I’m glad you seem to know so much. Unlike you, I am rather simple. My doctor says take it easy until this gets healed, I take it easy. I am not completely sedentary, I do go to the store, and go visit family and such. But I am not going to be lifting, bending, twisting, or anything else like that, simply because someone that seems to feel they know me better than I or my doctor do, tells me I can.

Yes, there are many that can lose weight by eating less and exercising more. But when I take in an average of 1500 to 2000 calories a day, most not fat, and have an ER doctor tell me that I need to eat less, since my body will not let me exercise, “after all, gastric bypass surgeries work for a reason”, I get angry. Aris and I live on his paycheck. We are not even classified as middle-class anymore. You want me to eat ‘healthy’? Fork over some money for it. I’m sorry, where I live, ‘healthy’ food is not cheap. A bag of potatoes is not healthy. It is carbohydrates and not much else. That packs on the fat. And when a plain, boiled potato is on your plate, tell me you don’t add anything to it. Not butter, sour cream, or anything else. I won’t believe you.

JLeslie's avatar

@KatawaGrey 50 pounds underweight is pretty much dead by the way. The example is too extreme.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@JLeslie: I know. I was trying to make a point. And yes, I do mean that many people are offended by seeing an overweight person eat anything.

I would also like to point out that no one has defines what exactly overweight is. A lot of people have stupid and unrealistic ideas as to what constitutes as “normal” and “healthy.” I could still be healthy if I weighed 60 pounds less, but I am also perfectly healthy now I weigh 150 pounds and am 5’3 and female, yes, the sex makes a difference, does that mean I am sixty pounds overweight? No, it does not. If you saw me, you would not think me overweight. You probably would not guess that I had gained 40 pounds in the past two years.

An open question to everyone here who seems so offended by the idea and sight of an overweight person: Why does the idea/sight offend you personally?

meagan's avatar

@Keysha Please excuse me for simply suggesting mild exercise and lowering calories. I wasn’t aware of how extremely offensive a healthy lifestyle could be. Please excuse me for not knowing that you had arthritis. I didn’t know that you’ve recently undergone a major surgery, my bad! I should have considered all of this before I suggested everyone eat better, stop eating take out, and exercise – FOR FREE!

I am surely damned to hell.

And while you continue to scrutanize me for trying to help out, let me give you links to legitimate at home jobs that can possibly help you pay for “healthy” meals – ChaCha.com and kgb.com
Once again, surely I can ask your forgiveness for my ignorance.

Keysha's avatar

@meagan My point was, simply, that if you state anyone can exercise and lose, weight, you will be wrong. You are not, and have not, made exceptions. I am one of them.

meagan's avatar

@KatawaGrey I thought we were talking Obese, here. Overweight and Obese are two different things. I think Obese people have the BMI of 30 or over. (Its all about the BMI).
I’m not offended by the sight or weight of an “overweight” person. I’d just wish better for them.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@meagan Clearly, you don’t mean anything you’ve just said. It’s quite obvious…also, it’s not all about the BMI – public health professionals agree that this measure is a pretty bad way to measure anything given differences in body structure and bone density and its ignorance of blood tests and the such
@KatawaGrey People find obesity offensive when they, themselves, have body issues and have forced themselves and limited themselves and hate any fat on their own bodies.

BoBo1946's avatar

@dpworkin would like to provide a link or proof that says obesity cannot be controlled?

Certainly did not intend to be arrogant, as you stated, just never heard that!

How about surgical techniques? Al Roker? John Daly?

How you ever watched the TV show, “The Biggest Loser?”

dotlin's avatar

I used to be fat so rather than blaming other people views I went outside did exercise and eat healthily. If people called me stupid with due cause I’d deal with it or take what other people say.

I often get fat people saying to me “Why do you exercise you’re already skinny?” or “Why do you eat healthy you are already skinny?” It’s not a race where I can get to the end and finish it’s circle track and fat it always right behind me.

I do look don’t on these people as the majority have let themselves go, the same as stupid people haven;t bothered to learn enough.

For the majority of people it just takes hard work and exercise to become skinny so I do look down on them

meagan's avatar

@Keysha It isn’t my job to make exceptions. I could sit here all day and make exceptions. Exceptions could range from arthritis to war vets without legs. If someone wants to lose weight, its their job to figure out the best way to lose weight. I can’t say… if you’re poor, lift milk jugs filled with water, etc, etc. all day long.

Keysha's avatar

@meagan I am not continuing with you. You feel free to pass judgment on all of humanity, or so it seems, yet when provided an example or two of exceptions, you get irate. This does not benefit anyone. No, it is not your job to make exceptions. Nor is it your job to tell me how to live my life and how wrong I am for being as I am. But you seemed to manage that just fine.

If there is anything else in this topic that interests me, I will respond, just not to @meagan because I think, at this point, it is a waste of both our times.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@meagan: Perhaps when @Keysha enumerated her various sundry reasons for being unable to undertake regular exercise my own mother has arthritis throughout her whole body and she is much healthier than @Keysha and she has a lot of difficulty with exercise you shouldn’t have said something so rude and offensive as telling her the fattest man in the world dances in his bed as exercise. You are an offensive and rude person.

meagan's avatar

@KatawaGrey How was that offensive? It was an example. Even the fattest man in the world exercises, and he can’t even get out of bed. The way he exercises is to dance!
Everyone is taking this post far too personally.
I didn’t say, you are like him – dance in your bed!
I just meant, maybe turn on the radio and dance.

Facade's avatar

@meagan BMI’s are bullshit. It gives no account to frame or muscle mass. According to those charts, I should be no more than 120lbs for my height. 120lbs on me would look very malnourished. This holds true for a lot of other people as well. We all have different bodies. And in my opinion, health should be measured by things like muscle mass and body fat, not just overall weight. And maybe try backing off a bit.

meagan's avatar

@Facade Yeah, but 120 is totally different from 320. A BMI of 22 is going to be different from 32. This argument doesn’t really hold for people that could be described as obese in the BMI. What do you think?

Facade's avatar

@meagan Of course I was not talking about the cases where people are obviously overweight or obese. I was referring to people on the lower end of the scale.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@meagan Most professional athletes have very high BMIs because of their muscle mass. Their BMIs often would put them as obese or even morbid obesity. BMI is not an accurate measure of obesity. A better indicator of obesity is looking at your waist measurement and also measuring body fat percentage.

JLeslie's avatar

@KatawaGrey 5’3” at 150 and you gained 40 pounds. Well, I would not think you obese just by looking at you probably (of course I cannot see you) without using any technical measures. 5’3” at 110 is pretty skinny. You moved through your normal range, I would say, and now are overweight. It’s not like there is a single normal weight, it is more of a range. At 5’3” using the old rule, which is what I tend to use, around 115–125 is a nice weight for you, but anything from 110 to 130 probably looks “normal.” At 150 I don’t think I would give you a second look for your weight. If I were you I would feel heavy though, for myself. I am 5’6” and weigh 140 right now and I hate it. I don’t think I am fat, by most standards, but I feel yuck.

BoBo1946's avatar

ummm…we have a “cat fight” here!

Time out…just one question, have any of you watched “The Biggest Loser?”

meagan's avatar

@Facade Yeah, I agree with you there. With all of the “pear shape” and “hour glass” and stuff like that, its obvious that everyone is different. BMI’s are a little nutty, considering a lot of people store extra pounds in butt / boobs. But when you’ve got 50 pounds of butt and boob, its a health risk ;P
(I read a few days ago that people with high hip to waist ratios are at higher risk for heart disease, now tell me being overweight isn’t unhealthy lol)

anartist's avatar

Yes. Absolutely. When I was a Smithsonian intern a museum assistant director even told us flat out obesity is several strikes against one if one is trying to get a job.

Often even the obese hate the obese. And themselves.

JLeslie's avatar

@KatawaGrey Maybe you are very self conscious because you are unhappy with your weight? Is that a possibility?

DominicX's avatar

what I find challenging about obesity (and to be honest, it’s something that bothers me in general), is people who look to everything, except themselves, to blame for their own condition

That is exactly my issue. You can’t just blame “society” for being obese. It comes from poor personal choices.

BoBo1946's avatar

@dpworkin still would like a link or proof on your comment!

JLeslie's avatar

@meagan I think you misunderstand what ratio means.

Facade's avatar

@meagan The fat/ health correlation is largely based on where the fat is carried. Fat is most dangerous when it’s around the waist where the organs are. Fat hips and thighs are less worrisome. That’s why, as @Seaofclouds of clouds stated, the waist measurement is important.

nikipedia's avatar

@meagan: No one has criticized you for suggesting people make healthier choices. I believe it is safe to say that everyone participating in this thread agrees that healthier choices are, by definition, a good thing for everyone (not just the obese!)

What you seem to be missing is that many people are offended by your critical, judgmental, and closed-minded approach to this “suggestion.”

Like @Keysha, this will be my last comment to you since you seem not to be interested in having a mature and respectful discussion.

meagan's avatar

@BoBo1946 I used to watch the biggest loser. Its really unhealthy. They basically starve these people and work them like animals, not to mention exploit their emotional travesties for ratings.

@nikipedia I’m honest, so people are offended? Eat better. Exercise. Lose weight. Its a formula. I don’t really care if anyone’s feelings are hurt. Thats the truth to it. I can’t sit around and hear about everyone’s health problems and why they can’t do everything. I’ve already listed examples on how to exercise for free. I’ve even given one user a few online work opportunities to help pay for “healthy food”. No skin off my nose. If anyone wants to be upset because I’m trying to be helpful, they can be upset.

BoBo1946's avatar

Here is my deal on WEIGH…. i drink lots of water, stay away from food with lots of fat, exercise everyday…actually, do push ups, sit ups, deep knee bends, etc. during commercials when watching TV Also, walk three or four days a week. As stated above, i work my a** off to stay healthy! i could easy be overweigh…but, it is about choices…in my humble opnion!

@dpworkin!

Still waiting on the scientific evidence that it’s uncontrollable!

Facade's avatar

@meagan I doubt those people are starving or being worked like animals. Going on a walk or light jog a few times a week is not enough for people who are that much over weight. Maybe I’m biased because of the training that I’ve done, but the workouts they do look great to me. Weight training combined with cardio and a trainer who pushes you will lead to success.

bootonthroat's avatar

Of course society has less respect for obese people. We also have less respect for lazy people, dumb people, etc.

Society should reward healthy, intelligent, hard workers… not the opposite.

BoBo1946's avatar

@meagan if they eat a balanced diet…and hopefully, they do…not unhealthy!

KatawaGrey's avatar

@JLeslie: If I feel self-conscious, It is because I have been told over and over again that I am ugly because I am not a toothpick. I am quite happy with my big ass and bigger boobs. As I said, I’m going to lose a little weight because eating less is cheaper than buying new pants. I am not overweight. I was 110 pounds and I felt awful. I looked like a twelve-year-old boy and was often treated badly by people who didn’t like that I was so skinny and they weren’t. I am built somewhat like my mother who, if she weighed what you do, would be very healthy and happy. She is 5’1. If she went below 120 pounds, she feels awful and gets sick. With any luck, I will exchange my fat for muscle and actually gain weight. With greater luck, my pants will stretch and I will stop popping out of bras. :)

As a side note, I actually get hit on a lot more now than I did when I weighed 130 pounds and way way more than when I was 110 pounds.

BoBo1946's avatar

Also, people who have health problems and cannot exercise…a totally different deal. Maybe that was what @dpworkin was referring too!

meagan's avatar

@Facade On the biggest loser? They work those people for hours every day and keep the gym open all night. Bigger people need more energy for their bodies to work properly, and they feed them less calories than I eat. So theyre basically running on empty. As I remember, they’d burn a thousand calories a day just on exercise. I’m sure they naturally burn 2,000 just with their BMR. So thats probably a 2000 calorie deficit. But like I’ve been saying (or maybe thinking), bigger people burn calories faster, and need more calories just to function. But I haven’t watched in a year or so. Maybe its turned around since then.
But still, these people lose weight incredibly fast. It can’t be healthy. Slow and steady wins the race, I think. It leads to lifestyle changes and helps keep the weight off, I believe.

Your body isn’t designed to lose ten pounds in a week, I don’t care if you weigh 500 pounds.

BoBo1946's avatar

out of here…might get hurt on this one!

Facade's avatar

@meagan If I’m not mistaken, most of the people on that show carry over the things they learned to their daily lives when the show is finished.

meagan's avatar

@Facade Some, I guess. Its got to be a lifestyle change. You can’t live with someone that loves cheeto’s and then expect to keep on your diet. The cheeto’s will always be waiting ;)

Facade's avatar

@meagan Of course it’s a lifestyle change. And the cheetos thing? Just because one person is eating something, doesn’t mean another has to do the same. What the hell happened to willpower and personal responsibility. Is this the norm– blaming household members for weight gain?

JLeslie's avatar

@KatawaGrey I failed to put my final point on my post. What I should have said in summation is that it does not sound to me that you are 50 pounds overweight. I think it is probably more like 20 pounds.

meagan's avatar

@Facade That is true. I personally can’t live with people that eat any junk food. I’ve lost probably forty pounds since 2008, maybe. Doesn’t sound like a lot, but its an accomplishment to me. I’ve got a dormant eating disorder, so any kind of junk food triggers bad behavior. Doesn’t mean that I don’t hash it out in over eaters anonymous, though. Gotta take responsibility. There’s an answer for every problem. A problem without an answer is probably just an excuse.

I don’t like these responses that say, well I have this, so this is why I cant lose weight.

JLeslie's avatar

@KatawaGrey I just saw your last post, I had missed it. If you like your curves and get more attention, then why does it sound like you are getting negative attention in your other posts?

tinyfaery's avatar

@nikipedia and @dpworkin, you are my heroes. This thread has disgusted me. Though, I am not surprised by most of the users who are so judgmental and refuse to become educated about the issue. Seems like a pattern for many here.

JLeslie's avatar

One comment by me about the show The Biggest Loser. I think it is awful. The amount they exercise and calories cut is ridiculously extreme, and I think it is a bad example to show such extreme weight loss in such a short period of time.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Whoah! Calm down a bit folks. As others on here have indicated, this issue is far more complex than even scientists have been able to unravel as of yet.

meagan's avatar

@JLeslie Thank you! It really isn’t healthy at ALL. Not to mention it sets a bad example for people that are probably desperate for weight loss.

LeotCol's avatar

Do I think that our society has less respect for obese people?

Yes.

I ask because physical fitness, youth and sex appeal seem to have become such a part of our culture, i wonder if you think we have a negative attitude toward obesity.

I don’t think that fitness, youth and sex appeal has “become” part of our culture. I think it has always been a part of all cultures. I think that its built into our minds and instinct. Although advertising has brought this to very increased levels I don’t think that it has in any way changed our opinions.

I’m sorry to say that I feel less respect towards obese people. I don’t really choose to. It seems to be built into my mind as much as it is in others. There are probably many reasons for people being obese but I just find that I tend to be more judgemental to them rather than others. It is unfair and wrong, I could try change my opinions. But just like many others, I take the easy way out and say that it is them who should do all the changing.

I think the main reason that there is more judgement on obese people is that it is something that the majority of them don’t want and to a certain extent can change assuming there are no medical reasons restricting them from doing this.

bootonthroat's avatar

@CaptainHarley

Scientists: fat is bad.
Doctors: fat will kill you
Everyone else: fat is yucky
...
Fat people: it is a complex issue

janbb's avatar

I agree with what @tinyfaery said. Simplistic bromides and judgments are not helpful and counter-productive.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@bootonthroat

Scientists: fat is bad, but we don’t really know what to do about it.

bootonthroat's avatar

@janbb Fat being being bad is way up there in terms of simple concepts. There isn’t really any wriggle room there.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@bootonthroat So, why are you so bitter about it?

Facade's avatar

@CaptainHarley I refuse to take the word of an government-funded scientist who says they don’t know what to do about obesity. Fat people are big money– food, weight loss products, not to mention Big Pharma.

And aren’t they the same people who say that the excessive amount of corn syrup in foods these days is perfectly ok? Please…

bootonthroat's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

I am so “bitter” about it because it is a problem facing our nation and instead of people being told it is bad, they should stop with the extra calories and lack of exercise…... they are instead told why it is acceptable. It is a person’s right to blow up like a blimp but it is a bad choice in every since of the word.

shego's avatar

I don’t like being overweight, but I’m not going to blame people. It just hurts me, when I am working hard to lose the weight, that I am told I’m not doing good enough. I encountered that earlier in the week. Do you know what it is like to lose 80 lbs in a year by doing everything that is possible to lose the weight and being told it’s not good enough?
I have a garden where I grow my own vegetables, I work out an hour a day. I mainly cook all of my meals. But what I have done isn’t good enough. What more am I to do?

meagan's avatar

@shego Isn’t good enough to who’s standards? 80 pounds in a year is outstanding. Anyone telling you otherwise is insane. Don’t listen to any negativity as long as youre honestly giving it that amazing effort. Congrats!

janbb's avatar

@bootonthroat Of course being fat is unhealthy no-one is disputing that, but do we blame diabetics? People with cancer (well, maybe if they smoked)? Lupus sufferers? Of course it is a health issue. But stigmatizing people doesn’t do any good.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@bootonthroat No, people are told these things and are stigmatized for it, even if they are trying to lose weight. What we’re trying to say (and as a person very knowledgeable about nutrition and exersize and what barriers there are in the way of people getting fit and healthy…I think I know more about this issue…it’s not an issue where it’s only personal blame or only societal blame) is that it’s not your business making people feel bad about themselves when, if you give so much a shit, you should be telling our schools to stop serving kids the most unhealthiest lunches, to stop cutting gyms across the board, to have our local governments stop cutting parks and any safe areas to exersize, etc…there are things you can do to fight obesity and not people who are obese. Their choices are not your choices and you have no right to people how to live or to die – next time you make a bad choice and eat a burger, I, as a vegan, will make sure to jump down your throat and inform you what your choices are doing to the economy of the world and to global warming and to your own damn health and that of your children. But I’m not like that, I do what I can do to stay healthy and I help others lead healthier lives – what you’re doing is counterproductive and unhelpful and petty, petty and meaningless.

bootonthroat's avatar

@janbb
Yes. We do blame fat diabetics. Why? Their diet most likely made them diabetic.
Yes. We do blame smokers with lung cancer. Why? Same reason.
Yes. We also blame fat people.
Yes. We blame certain other types of cancers on specific product manufacturers.

I am sure a few were unlucky… but if you see a fat person the preponderance of evidence is that they are to blame. Stigmatizing fat people does do good because, in the vast majority of cases, they are in fact to at fault.

janbb's avatar

I don’t agree with your premise about causation but even if I did, what good do you see stigmatizing does?

meagan's avatar

This is the most interesting post I’ve ever seen on Fluther. Weight talk fascinates me.
Has anyone seen super size me? How they talk about how its okay to openly hassle smokers, but not overweight people? “Dont you understand, that cigarette will kill you!” And so will that hamburger.

These people aren’t born obese. I’m sorry, but as much hand holding is going on here, it really is all black and white. Either do something about it or stop making excuses. Maybe I am being a bitch, but I’m not physically suffering from “bitch”. Robbing yourself of physical fitness is something I’ll never understand.

bootonthroat's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
It is my choice what you eat for your breakfast, lunch, and dinner (and what your kids eat) as long as I pay for it. When I don’t pay for your health-care then you can tell me it isn’t my choice but as long as I am a tax-payer and I am going to be paying for your heath-care shouldn’t I tell you about every aspect of your life that might have bearing on that cost? :-)

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@bootonthroat Oh, this is a funny little game. Then you better stop eating meat..your likelihood of heart disease and cancer later on really grinds my bones. And make sure to be pretty careful when you walk around so as to not break your legs, ‘cause I don’t want to pay for you to get better either…and make sure, my dear, to never drink again so that I don’t worry about your health and alcoholic rages. And STDs much? Hope you always use protection, even in a monogamous relationship – your partner might be cheating on you and I don’t have to pay for whatever issues they’re having with you that’s leading them to cheat. Thanks in advance. And I sure hope you don’t have any kids later on because they might be born with cerebral palsy and that totally drains my resources. I’m also assuming that from this point forward you will lay off ALL of the fat people in the 46 million+ people who have NO health insurance. I’ll hold you to it, too.

Keysha's avatar

@bootonthroat I knew the ‘I pay for your healthcare’ was going to get shoved in here. No, it is not your choice what I eat. Unless you are willing to purchase my food, you have no say. Period. Unless you, personally, walk up to me and hand me money for health insurance, you have no say. I have paid for your police, fire, street maintenance and everything else that you do not get billed for. So did every other working American. The fact that I paid for your roads to be cared for means I can tell you not to drive your car, too, because you damage the surface of what I paid for. That is just as ridiculous as your comment. I’m sorry, but it is.

bootonthroat's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir A subset of what you mention is already on the way…. but I don’t think the beef industry (and corn industry which feeds the beef industry) friendly government is going to ever see your side of the health-story. You see when the government manages your health their are “other considerations” besides your health itself.

@Keysha In fact the government does tell all sorts of people that they can and cannot drive and the 1000 rules they must follow to do so and all the fees they must pay. The fire-inspector dictates what types of doors I must have and how thick the drywall must be and how the electrical wires must be installed (all of these things inside my house). Health-Care and eating will be no different.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@bootonthroat – that’s right, because it’s all about corporatist greed and the like (even with the soybean industry) and has never been about health…you know what else isn’t really about health, that health care you pay for…

bootonthroat's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

The point is that what was once your own private business is now everyone’s business since the voters have decided to opt for a commune instead of individual rights. You might think this is morally abhorrent (it is) but once you are in a commune you will find it is hard to pretend you are not. Your once-personal decisions actually are everyone’s business under the new model. This is why the new model is so bad.

Keysha's avatar

@bootonthroat The government does. You do not have that right. Unless you make the laws. When laws are passed saying I cannot eat this or that, then I will follow them. Until then, you have no right to make any decisions for me.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@bootonthroat I feel like we’re no longer discussing the question at hand and are veering off on tangents. Clearly, you have an issue with the government pushing for more healthcare – yet another point where you and I disagree. Because of this ‘problem’ and since you can’t do much about it, you decided to take it out on fat people.

bootonthroat's avatar

@Keysha There are already many laws about what you cannot eat:
a) unpasteurized cheese
b) products containing brain
c) products with trans-fats in NYC restaurants
etc.
There are many more of these laws on the way. Soda-laws, sugar-laws, and salt-laws are high on the list. You are OK with these laws telling you what you can and cannot eat?

bootonthroat's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I can do something about it. I can take action against individuals who are upping my costs. These individuals are the fat people we are discussing. I was told that there is no reason to stigmatize fat people. The new health-care law is why fatties must be made to cry in shame at night. If you think this is evil then don’t forget someone is going to be making a decision about if it is “worth it” for grandma to have surgery or not.

Keysha's avatar

@bootonthroat try living in my world. Veal brains are usually scrambled with eggs. Unpasteurized cheese is made from fresh cow’s milk. I don’t live in NYC. Point is you do not have the right to tell me anything. And you are getting massively off topic. If you are making the laws, then stop complaining. If you are not, then kindly stop shoving your beliefs and personal decisions, including what you think I should or should not eat, due to my obesity, to yourself. Or at least stop telling me you have a right to make those decisions.

janbb's avatar

@bootonthroat Someone already is making the decision on whether “Granny’’ gets to have surgery or not, some clerk in an insurance office if you’re lucky enough to have insurance – don’t pull the battle cry of anti-socialism out now.

DominicX's avatar

Of course being fat is unhealthy no-one is disputing that, but do we blame diabetics? People with cancer (well, maybe if they smoked)? Lupus sufferers? Of course it is a health issue. But stigmatizing people doesn’t do any good.

If your lifestyle choices led to your obesity, I don’t see how you can not be blamed, at least partly. It’s this “blame everybody but myself” attitude toward obesity that I don’t like. Being rude and judgmental toward fat people is not helpful, but acting like it’s not a problem is not helpful either. It is a problem. (Not saying you are doing that, but some people seem to act like being obese is like having blue eyes, when it really is not at all).

bootonthroat's avatar

@janbb If individuals were not forced to purchase insurance they could save that money and make their own decisions about medical care. If they are forced to purchase insurance the money they otherwise could have saved vanishes. You should only need to purchase health insurance for a brief time when you start working if you are a heavy saver.

janbb's avatar

How many people can save the cost of what they would need to pay for a major surgery? How many have the discipline? We need to provide more access to care and lower costs, ideally through single payer. But you and I are never going to agree and I believe this is getting away from the topic at hand. (And besides, I am going to go swimming now.)

bootonthroat's avatar

@DominicX Thank you…. but shouldn’t I be judgmental when under the new health-care law I am forced to pay extra for someone’s decision to be fat? Even if otherwise I don’t care at all shouldn’t I care when I am being charged for it? It is my money they are spending to be fat.

bootonthroat's avatar

@janbb Good talking to you. Enjoy the pool. Be sure to put on sun-block so I don’t have to pay for your skin cancer :-)

janbb's avatar

@bootonthroat I will – thanks for the reminder. :-)

jazmina88's avatar

wow guys…..I was a bit chubby most of my life. I fight to keep it off. Dont blame fast food, there are healthy options, the salads are more expensive, but there.
It doesnt help when my Mother, who used to have weight issues also is a Fataphobe. She never taught me to be content. or have self-esteem.
I have shoulder and back issues and fibro, due to genetics. and marching band.
It does take big time discipline. But dont judge least you be judged.

I fight for every lb. I love to dance. I’m 160 and proud. of how hard I work, but so sad how obsessed I have had to be.

dpworkin's avatar

@BoBo1946 Here is the abstract of the first of 60,000 or so papers returned by the search terms “obesity” + “treatment” on Pub Med. As if you couldn’t have done it yourself.

Obesity treatment: the high cost of false hope.

Wooley SC, Garner DM.

Department of Psychiatry, University of Cincinnati Medical College, OH 45267–0559.

Comment in:

* J Am Diet Assoc. 1992 Feb;92(2):161.

Abstract

Although millions seek treatments for obesity, the benefits of treatment have been overstated. For most people, treatment is not effective; the majority of the obese struggle in vain to lose weight and blame themselves for relapses. Repeated experiences of failure add to the psychologic burden caused by the social stigma and the presumption of psychopathologic conditions attached to obesity. Many therapists may be contributing to this psychologic damage by giving their patients false hope for success and by failing to recognize that seeking treatment for obesity may be triggered by psychologic problems that are not addressed in obesity treatment.

PMID: 1918744 [PubMed – indexed for MEDLINE]

(Not that I expect you actually to read the study even after all your nagging.)

CaptainHarley's avatar

Bottom line on this for me is: all of life is struggle and people who are overweight are entitled, like everyone else, to a degree of respect simply for joining in the struggle. Perhaps someday we shall all come to the point where we accept and love one another simply because we are brothers and sisters, and overcome all this petty bickering and foolishness. God, I hope I’m still around to see that! : )

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley Thanks for the reasonable voice.

dpworkin's avatar

Yes, my first GA for the Captain.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Wow! I’m really moving up in the world, eh? : D

BoBo1946's avatar

@dpworkin loll…nagging! Just ask for a link! My apology for offending you SIR!

Read your link! And, is this a scientific approach or the psychological effects from losing weigh and gaining it back? Oprah, has gone through this process many times. But, she is still working at keeping her weigh down. that is what she says on her show! I’m not speaking for Oprah!

“Many therapists MAY BE contributing to this psychologic damage by giving their patients false hope for success and by failing to recognize that seeking treatment for obesity may be triggered by psychologic problems that are not addressed in obesity treatment.”

Is not the key word here @dpworkin, maybe? Seems like the person that wrote this article “left the door open!”

Withstanding physical problems that some people have, a physically healthy person can lose weigh with exercise and good eating habits.

In closing, never intented to be arrogant about people with a weigh problem! Why, because i fight it everyday! I’m 6’4” and weigh 245 now….once weighed 280! So, i’m the last person to hurt anyone’s feeling about weigh. If i did, you have my humble apology!

dpworkin's avatar

You didn’t read the study, you read the abstract. I told you I got 60,000 returns on those search terms. I challenge you to read .001% of all of them. So far you have read 1% of one of them.

BoBo1946's avatar

@dpworkin got’cha…thanks! will not be reading them all!

Silhouette's avatar

Yes they do, rightly or wrongly it’s a fact that society frowns on the obese. Lets face it, they cost the rest of us money and some of them do sit on their very ample behinds and eat pizza and doughnuts ad nauseam. Some have only their sloth and their gluttony to blame for their predicament, I said some not all.

Overweight and obesity and their associated health problems have a significant economic impact on the health care systems. According to the Center For Disease Control and Prevention “a study of national costs attributed to both overweight (BMI 25–29.9) and obesity (BMI greater than 30), medical expenses accounted for 9.1 percent of total U.S. medical expenditures in 1998 and may have reached as high as $78.5 billion ($92.6 billion in 2002”

These numbers make some taxpayers less than sympathetic to the people who are walking up to the buffet for the 12th time. Is it wrong, maybe, but then again, maybe not.

Personally, I don’t care one way or another if someone is obese, it’s their life they can live it the way they want and I won’t think less of them for it.

I live my life like I won’t get a do over. If I want the damn doughnut, I eat it, just in case I get killed in some freak accident. I don’t want my last thoughts to be “I should have had the doughnut.” I believe in quality over quantity, if my weight didn’t effect the quality of my life, I say eat drink and be merry and pay for the extra seat.

I see a lot of people here pointing to medical issues as the cause for obesity, according to a study conducted Sep 19, 2009… About 1% of the cases of obesity have medical causes. The rest, we can only assume are due to overeating and lack of exercise.

dpworkin's avatar

What study would that have been? May we have a citation, please?

Silhouette's avatar

I found it on The Center for Disease Control website. Take a look if you like.

dpworkin's avatar

Can I have a link please? That’s a big web site.

Silhouette's avatar

Sure, give me a minute to find it for you.

JLeslie's avatar

I am not fond of the argument that obese people cost tax payers more money. Look, it might be true that they are more likely to deveop certain illnesses, but runners wind up needing knee replacements, and people in my gene pool seem to have trouble with heart disease at a young age, and if we start overanalyzing how each person lives and medical costs it will get ridiculous. I am all for educating people on how to live healthier lives for their own sake, but I am not ready to get pissed about what it might be costing the health care system.

Silhouette's avatar

@JLeslie Me either, like I said, I don’t care if they are over weight, but they are going to have to pay extra for that weight when they fly.

@dpworkin Here is a link to one of the studies I sited, I’m still looking for the other, you’re right, it’s a big site.

dpworkin's avatar

I have been searching http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/resources.html since my first request to you, but I can find no document that backs up your statement. I did find the document about costs of obesity.

JLeslie's avatar

@Silhouette Yes, we agree on both.

Silhouette's avatar

@dpworkin I’ll find it when I get back from walking my dogs or you can search it out here

Sorry to site and run but the babies need a walk.

dpworkin's avatar

From the link you gave me, clicking on “causes”, I found this:

# Metabolic syndrome
# Hypothyroidism
# Familial obesity
# Cushing’s disease
# Cushing’s syndrome
# PCOS
# Edema
# Insulinoma
# Pseudohypoparathyroidism
# Prader-Willi syndrome
# Laurence-Moon-Biedl syndrome
# Hypothalamus tumor

dpworkin's avatar

Some more from the same link:

# Psychological causes of obesity may include:

* Comfort eating (see Overeating)
* Overeating
* See also causes of weight gain

# Brain disorder causing increased eating (hyperphagia) include:

* Encephalitis
* Brain injury
* Third ventricle tumor
* Some brain tumors
* Chromophobe adenoma
* Craniopharyngioma

# Physical addiction – weight changes
# Myxedema – weight gain
# Mental retardation, X linked—precocious puberty—obesity – obesity
# Lupus nephritis – weight gain
# Klinefelter syndrome, variants – overweight
# Idiopathic edema – increased weight
# Hypogonadism—mitral valve prolapse—mental retardation – obesity
# Hyperandrogenism – obesity
# Heart failure – abnormal weight gain
# Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis – weight gain
# Frölich’s syndrome – obesity
# Dilated cardiomyopathy – abnormal weight gain
# Depressive disorders – weight gain
# Chromosome 5q duplication syndrome – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 2 – obesity
# Prednisolone
# Pituitary gland disease
# Thyroid hormone plasma membrane transport defect – weight problems
# Sohval-Soffer syndrome – obesity
# Polyneuropathy—mental retardation—acromicria—premature menopause – obesity
# Pituitary tumors, adult – excessive body fat in torso
# MOMO syndrome – obesity
# Lymphomatous thyroiditis – weight gain
# HAIR-AN Syndrome – obesity
# Eating disorders – Obesity
# Cushing syndrome, familial – upper body obesity
# Congestive Heart Failure – weight gain
# Chromosome 4, trisomy 4p – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 3 – obesity
# Adrenal Cortex Neoplasms – excessive body fat in torso
# Frohlich syndrome
# Middle age spread
# Type 2 diabetes – Weight gain
# Trophoblastic Cancer – Weight gain
# Simpson-Golabi-Behmel syndrome, type 2 – obesity
# Pituitary cancer, childhood – excessive body fat in torso
# Overgrowth syndrome, type Fryer – increased weight
# Mauriac syndrome – obesity
# Masculinisation – weight gain
# Hyperostosis frontalis interna – obesity
# Hyperadrenalism – excessive body fat in torso
# Empty sella syndrome—primary – obesity
# Chondrodysplasia, Grebe type – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 4 – obesity
# Albright like syndrome – obesity
# Achard-Thiers Syndrome – obesity
# X-linked mental retardation-hypotonic facies syndrome
# Food addiction – weight increase
# Urban rogers meyer syndrome – obesity
# Riedel syndrome – weight gain
# Retinohepatoendocrinologic syndrome – obesity
# Polycystic ovarian disease, familial – obesity
# Overweight – Increased weight
# Obesity, hypothyroidism, craniosynostosis, cardial hypertrophy, colitis and intellectual deficiency – obesity
# Nguyen syndrome – obesity
# Mental retardation, X-linked, syndromic 11 – obesity
# Mental retardation—nasal hypoplasia—obesity—genital hypoplasia – obesity
# Laron-type dwarfism – obesity
# Hypothalamic dysfunction – increased weight
# Hypertension of pregnancy – sudden weight increase
# Hyperpituitarism – Obese
# Grahmann’s syndrome – obesity
# Familial hypothyroidism – increased weight
# Emerinopathy – obesity
# Deletion 6q16 q21 – obesity
# Chromosome 3, trisomy 3q13 2 q25 – obesity
# Bobble-head doll syndrome – obesity
# Biemond syndrome type 2 – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 5 – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 10 – obesity
# Austrian syndrome – weight changes
# Adrenocortical carcinoma – excessive body fat in torso
# Melanocortin 4 receptor defect
# Underactive thyroid gland
# Reduced metabolic rate
# Vasquez Hurst Sotos syndrome – obesity
# Sleep Apnea Syndromes – overweight
# Psychological addiction – weight changes
# Prolidase deficiency – childhood obesity
# Obesity—colitis—hypothyroidism—cardiac hypertrophy—developmental delay – obesity
# Mental retardation, X-linked—gynecomastia—obesity – obesity
# Mental retardation X-linked syndromic 7 – obesity
# Mental retardation—gynecomastia—obesity, X-linked – obesity
# Mental retardation—epilepsy—bulbous nose – obesity
# Familial hypopituitarism – increased weight
# Cortisone reductase deficiency – abdominal obesity
# Chromosome 21q deletion syndrome – obesity
# Cardiomyopathy—hypogonadism—metabolic anomalies – obesity
# Cancer – Unexplained weight gain
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 6 – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 11 – obesity
# Ayazi syndrome – obesity
# Anorexia Nervosa – Weight changes
# Albright’s hereditary osteodystrophy – obesity
# Adrenal Cortex Diseases – upper body obesity
# Borjeson-Forssman-Lehmann syndrome
# Laron dwarfism
# Autoimmune Lymphoproliferative Syndrome – Weight gain
# X-linked mental retardation craniofacial abnormal microcepahly club – Obesity
# OHSS – weight increase
# Metaphyseal dysostosis mental retardation conductive deafness – obesity
# Mental retardation, X-linked, 36 – obesity
# Menopause – Weight gain
# Gelatinous ascites – increased weight
# Functioning pancreatic endocrine tumor – excessive body fat in torso
# Bearn-Kunkel syndrome – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 7 – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 12 – obesity
# Adrenal incidentaloma – excessive body fat in torso
# Adrenal gland hyperfunction – excessive body fat in torso
# Adrenal Cancer – obesity
# Premenstrual syndrome – weight gain
# Physical inactivity – obesity
# Optic pathway glioma – increased weight
# Mental retardation, X-linked, 91 – childhood obesity
# McKusick type metaphyseal chondrodysplasia – adult obesity
# Laron syndrome type 1 – obesity
# Depression – weight gain
# Budd-Chiari syndrome – increased weight
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 8 – obesity
# Autoimmune thyroid diseases – weight gain
# Adrenal adenoma, familial – excessive body fat in torso
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome – obesity
# Weight cycling – Obesity
# Summitt syndrome – obesity
# Subaortic stenosis—short stature syndrome – obesity
# Sengers-Hamel-Otten syndrome – obesity
# Schinzel Syndrome – obesity
# Ovarian carcinosarcoma – weight changes
# Mental retardation, X-linked—hypogonadism—ichthyosis—obesity—short stature – obesity
# Mental retardation—blepharophimosis—obesity—web neck – obesity
# McCune-Albright Syndrome – weight gain
# Laron syndrome type 2 – obesity
# Hypogonadotropic hypogonadism—syndactyly – obesity
# Choroideremia – obesity
# Binge eating disorder – obesity
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 9 – obesity
# Astrocytoma – changes in weight
# Anophthalmia—short stature—obesity – obesity
# Abdominal obesity metabolic syndrome – abdominal obesity
# Pituitary gland cancer
# Wilson-Turner X-linked mental retardation – Obesity
# Thyroid disorders – weight gain
# Simpson-Golabi-Behmel syndrome, type 1 (SGBS1) – obesity
# Schroeder syndrome 1 – obesity
# Polycystic ovary syndrome – obesity
# Ovarian Cancer – weight change
# Obesity due to congenital leptin deficiency – obesity
# Obesity – Increased weight
# Mental retardation—epileptic seizures—hypogonadism—hypogenitalism -microcephaly—obesity – obesity
# Lipoprotein disorder – overweight
# Klinefelter syndrome – rounded body type
# Hypertrichosis brachydactyly obesity and mental retardation – obesity
# Gastro-enteropancreatic neuroendocrine tumor – weight gain
# Eclampsia – weight gain
# Diabetes – Weight gain
# Chromosome 1p deletion syndrome – overweight
# Chromosome 12p tetrasomy syndrome – obesity
# Carpenter syndrome – obesity
# Ampola syndrome – obesity
# Pituitary tumour (growth hormone secreting)
# Pseudohypoparathyroidism type 1a
# Young-Hughes syndrome – Obesity
# Adiposogenital dystrophy
# Kleine-Levin-Critchley syndrome
# Williams Syndrome – obesity
# Premenstrual dysphoric disorder – weight increase
# Panhypopituitarism – increased weight
# Hypopituitarism – weight increase
# Hepatic veno-occlusive disease—immunodeficiency – increased weight
# Fructose-1,6-bisphosphatase deficiency, hereditary – obesity
# Fowler-Christmas-Chapple syndrome – weight gain
# Dysthymia – weight gain
# Clark-Baraitser syndrome – obesity
# Borjeson Syndrome – adult obesity
# Aromatase deficiency – obesity
# Alcohol-induced pseudo-Cushing syndrome – weight gain
# Cohen syndrome – obesity
# Pituitary gland tumor
# Disordered Eating – weight gain
# Pregnancy toxemia /hypertension – sudden weight increase
# Lowe oculocerebrorenal syndrome – chubby during younger years
# Leschke-Ullmann syndrome – obesity
# Focal segmental glomerulosclerosis – weight gain
# Empty sella syndrome—acquired – obesity
# Bipolar disorder – weight gain
# Bardet-Biedl syndrome, type 1 – obesity
# Aniridia—ptosis—mental retardation—obesity, familial – obesity
# Ethanol

Perhaps you misunderstood something you read.

Silhouette's avatar

@dpworkin Keep lookin, that’s where I found the stats. All those medical causes and it still only accounts for 1%, that is incredible, tragic really..see ya soon.

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JLeslie's avatar

@dpworkin I’m not agreeing or disagreeing with this 1% thing, but things like hypothyroidism, would you count that if the person is corrected on medication? I’m hypo, but I don’t think I can blame it for my weight gain, because I am in normal range on meds (usually).

dpworkin's avatar

I don’t think anyone understands the reason that 95% of obese people, no matter how hard or often they try, regain their weight plus some extra pounds every time they lose it. Technically this may not be a medical cause, because we don’t know what the cause is, but to insist that overweight is always a matter of consuming more calories than you expend is just not viable. Read the study I cited above.

JLeslie's avatar

@dpworkin Yes, I know, I am not arguing that science hasn’t quite figured it all out. My father, who worked for HHS for years and his job was approving research studies for NIMH under the Surgeon General. He headed up issuing grants to universities, so he knows how to conduct a study, is constantly telling me exactly what you are saying here.

All I was saying was when they calculate the percentage of people who have no known disease or metabolic problem to justify being obese, I think the stats can be played with depending on whether they include people who have a physical problem even when corrected through medication, or if they say those pople don’t count because it is corrected. Even with that crazy long list you posted of reason why people might be obese, there still seems to be a mechanism we don’t understand I think.

dpworkin's avatar

Many mechanisms, all misunderstood. Imagine the sheer weight of intellectual power that has been assigned to this issue, considering that the person who solves the problem will become more wealthy than Bill Gates. If it were as simple as has been proposed here by many, then why isn’t everyone thin?

DominicX's avatar

So how come obesity is so much more common in America than say, South Korea (a country with a very low obesity rate*)? What makes South Korea different?

*2.4% of South Koreans are obese compared with 32% of Americans.

dpworkin's avatar

Oh. I think lifestyle is the major cause of obesity, but it doesn’t explain the inability of people to lose weight once they have begun the process of becoming obese. I completely buy calorie-balance when it comes to children.

However, we must recall that the poorest people tend to be the most obese, and that is because they have the fewest nutritional choices, so there is still no point in blaming the fat person for being fat.

augustlan's avatar

@JLeslie I don’t know if you remember what I looked like in high school, but I was stick thin through most of it. About 120 pounds at almost 5’ 8”. When I got hypothyroid at age 17, my weight went up to 170 in a very short time. Since then, despite medication, I have never weighed less than 150 pounds without drastic dieting. Even with the drastic dieting, the least I’ve weighed was 131 pounds, and it was absolutely unmaintainable.

I’ve also never felt my energy levels return to what there were prior to going hypo. I would say the thyroid issue definitely has an impact, even once ‘corrected’ by medication.

JLeslie's avatar

@DominicX I think part of it is portions. When I was in Japan the portions in restaurants were smaller, except for when I ate at Hard Rock LOL. And, in Tokyo it is against the law to take leftovers home in the summer, another reason they probably make more appropriate portions. When Asians move to America they develop all of the same problems all Americans have when they eat our diet. Plus, not sure about Korea, but I wonder if they have fewer suburbs? In cities people walk a lot, and in rural farm communties they do a lot of physical work. This suburban lifestyle of driving our cars everywhere, and eating a lot of restaurant/prepared food doesn’t help.

@augustlan Yes, I remember that you were very thin. The thyroid thing is interesting to me. I am not saying it doesn’t count, I was wondering what @dpworkin thought. I am not sure at all about how things like that really affect us. My body is pretty screwed up, a lot of it seems to be related to my thyroid, and I am close to normal range most of the time, but can’t seem to get my “self” back. So, I get it. My biggest problem is my muscles, which I think affects my weight. My muscles seem to be affected by my thyroid, it is complex for sure. I can’t push myself much, because I pay dearly. If I work out too much I might not be able to drive home safely from the gym, or my bicep might cramp so much I will be in tears. Low muscle tone means I burn fewer calories, let alone I cannot exercise much. Somehow it is all inter-related. Here’s the thing, and this might be drifting off topic, If I were a person who works all day at an office and had a maid to do the heavy cleaning, I would barely know I have a problem. I wonder all of the time how many people are like me, and have no idea they have a problem.

To @dpworkin point, I think something happens when we gain weight that makes it very hard to take it off, normal thyroid or not. The thing is if you are hypo, and gain weight while not diagnosed, or waiting to find the right medication level, then you are overweight, and it is hard to take off the weight period, because of something still not really understood. I also 100% feel that taking medication to try and be normal is not the same as being normal.

dpworkin's avatar

Well, @DominicX has a very good point about the cultural issues. The population of Fiji showed a big increase in weight gain in the years immediately following the introduction of Television! (I learned that in Medical Anthropology.)

JLeslie's avatar

@dpworkin Hey, we probably have similar increases with the introduction of cable tv and personal computers I bet.

dpworkin's avatar

Well, I was The Fat Guy all my life, and I know how hard I worked to be thin, and how much I suffered. I swam, I ran, I lifted weights, I ate spinach and lettuce, and I didn’t get thin until I had the surgery. Now I feel no compulsion at all to overeat. In fact, I have to remind myself to eat. I am convinced it is a very dense and mysterious agglomeration of causes.

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Silhouette's avatar

@dpworkin Find the link yourself or don’t as you wish. It occurs to me that maybe people have less respect for obese people because some of them are hostile. They assume everyone is looking at them or judging them and they lash out or act the victim. I see several examples of that sort of behavior on this thread.

dotlin's avatar

Of course losing weight is hard, if it wasn’t we’d all be skinny but in the large majority of cases it’s could be prevented with exercise and watching what you eat.

I was going to bring up something similar to Dominic, there are many countries in the world that have ample access to food and still live without being obese.

I remember what I used to say when I was fat and I see it in other people in this thread, just get out there and do something about it and lose some weight.

BoBo1946's avatar

loll…“pot calling the kettle black!”

I’ve found that eating right and exercise are not a one week event, one month, or one year, it is a committment for the rest of your life! If you don’t, you will gain the weigh back! My heart goes out to people that cannot exercise. They are trapped in their own body!

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Silhouette's avatar

@Keysha Thank you for your one sided summary of the events. You have never seen me lose my cool, I don’t care enough to lose my cool, I don’t have a dog in this fight.

You know what’s funny? Pd and I met up on another question about obesity and I was the only one who told him I admired him for stepping up and identifying himself as an obese person, I actually admired his courage until now, when I see it was false bravado.

You and pd are working overtime trying to label me a fat phobe and a bigot and you couldn’t be more wrong. I have nothing against over weight people, I just can’t stomach a wuss.

I think they should be secure enough to shrug their shoulders at what others think. I think they should be proud of who they are and I think the energy they put into trying to brow beat others into submission would be better spent on bolstering their self esteem.

Hope this helps.

Merriment's avatar

When you say that society is “looking down on you when you have to pay for 2 seats on a plane, because *we fill one more than society considers norm” I ask you what is your solution to this? Should the airlines retrofit their interiors with over sized seats? If they do this than each plane will only be able to serve half as many passengers so prices for every persons tickets will double. Is that fair to people who only need one seat? Shouldn’t the premium be paid by the person who requires the specialty item, not society as a whole?

That fast food meals are getting bigger or that they exist at all isn’t “pushing” obesity on anyone. It takes an act to get the money for these items, it takes an act to go there, it takes an act to buy them, it takes an action to eat them. At any point in all those acts, a person is free to just say no.

There are only more channels on TV in my neck of the woods if you PAY for cable or dish. Otherwise its a basic programming that doesn’t inspire any one to sit for long. You can’t blame being sedentary on tv viewing when, again, it took an act on your part to bring multiple channels into your home. Same goes for video games..no one is forcing you to buy them or to play all day.

That healthy food is so much more expensive is bull. I know because when I gave up purchasing red meat and processed foods and began shopping at the produce market for fresh fruit and vegetables. And watching sales for lean meats my grocery bill was cut in half. We eat more whole grain pasta dishes. We eat good old fashioned oatmeal instead of high dollar convenience cereals. No tv dinners, no frozen pizzas. My groceries included loads of fruits, skim milk, cheese, low fat lunch meat, whole grain bread, eggs , low fat lunch meat, etc.

If what you are eating when you dine at home is a homemade version of the fast food…then it can be more expensive to stock up and cook at home. But the whole point of eating food prepared at home is to make options that are healthier for you and they are cheaper. Whole wheat pastas, salads,lean chicken, eggs, skim milk, brown rice, vegetables…these are the foods one can make at home for less than a trip to the drive through.

!2-healthful_foods_for_under_a-dollar

Yes, it is more work. I haven’t spent this much time in the kitchen since my kids were little but it’s worth it for my health.

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] Please remember, this question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic. Also, there is no need to make this personal. Please get back to answering the original question.

BoBo1946's avatar

Well, I was The Fat Guy all my life, and I know how hard I worked to be thin, and how much I suffered. I swam, I ran, I lifted weights, I ate spinach and lettuce, and I didn’t get thin until I had the surgery. Now I feel no compulsion at all to overeat. In fact, I have to remind myself to eat. I am convinced it is a very dense and mysterious agglomeration of causes.

@dpworkin now i understand…again, sorry if i said something that hurt your feelings! It was never intended! Weigh is a tough fight.

@augustlan just allow me this one last comment on the subject. Thank you…it is a little off subject but important for good family cohabitation! The Fluther Family!

mattbrowne's avatar

Real obesity is a disease, i.e. a severe medical condition. Same as nicotine addition, alcohol addiction and so forth. People had a choice long before they became obese or addicted to cigarettes. But once it gets out of hand we can’t blame anyone anymore. We should always show respect and never show any disrespect, especially if people are willing to get help. They need our support, not our ridicule.

BoBo1946's avatar

@mattbrowne could not agree more!

mattbrowne's avatar

And we need to differentiate between being (slightly) overweight which is a common minor issue and obesity. For people 60 and older it’s actually better to be slightly (but not very) overweight than being underweight because in case of an illness the body got some reserve.

Our societies need to do everything to prevent people from ever becoming obese or start smoking. Kids are now being targeted to let them know it’s very cool to not start smoking. Maybe we need the same for food, like it’s very cool to eat healthy food and very uncool to meet at McDonalds every day.

Pandora's avatar

In answer to your question. Yes. I’ve seen it happen over and over. Some years ago I knew a sweet girl who was brilliant. She was an accountant. She was also very over weight. Well obese. People are considered obese when they are 30 % fat and she was probably there. Anyhow. I watched how people treated her. She had a masters in accounting and she said as soon as she would be called in for an interview, she would notice how they would be polite but then usher her out. On the phone they would be entusiastic about her resume. But the moment they saw her their demeaner changed.
Needless to say when I last saw her she still couldn’t land job, except for working at a telemarketing firm selling insurance over the phone. People there also treated her like she had the plague. Despite all this she was very sweet, worked harder than most, and always had a positive attitude. Myself and one other guy were the only ones who saw her for who she was and not her body shape.
By the way, she was always on a diet. But exercise wasn’t in the cards for her since she had to work two minimum paying jobs to help her parents pay for her college education. So she was hardly lazy and very much underfed. Of course this was like 15 years back and no one had yet linked undereating to weight gain. And even though it is known now, there are still many who don’t know about it.
The only problem I have with overweight people is on airplanes but that is more to do with the fact that airlines are making seats for children.

JLeslie's avatar

@Pandora I find that story very sad.

Pandora's avatar

@JLeslie Whats even sadder is the fact that although we know obesity is more than just about stuffing our faces, people still judge each other and automatically think, lazy, slob and overeater and this kind of bias is still celebrated on the media. Look at Hells kitchen. I admit I like to watch the show but there is no reason for him to call other people fat cow and belittle them for their weight. I can understand picking on them because they presented themselves as chefs and then can’t even fry a chicken right. Or calling them a slob for making a huge mess or sweating over the food and wiping their sweaty brow and then touching the food. But what does their weight have to do with their cooking abilities. Although this season he doesn’t seem to have made any weight comments that I recall.
However my point is, he probably does it for ratings and its sad to say but I bet a lot of viewers would watch the more he berated someone for being overweight.

DominicX's avatar

Yeah, outrageous for people to actually think overeating causes obesity. What kind of moron could make that connection?~

dpworkin's avatar

@DominicX Overeating is the proximal cause of obesity. By no means on earth it is the cause.

Pandora's avatar

@DominicX What ever the cause whether it is due to over eating or poor diet choices or illness, or genetics, who gave anyone the right to treat overweight people like they are the plague. People treat people who are ugly the same way. I’m not saying everyone should love someone who is overweight but the same applies for the skinny and pretty people. To be disrespectful of someone because of their appearance is just wrong. Until they give you reason to be disrespectful than one should treat them as well as the next guy.

I don’t judge a person by what goes in their mouth, I judge them by what comes out of it.

janbb's avatar

@Pandora GA for that last line!

JLeslie's avatar

@Pandora I watch Hell’s Kitchen also and I HATE the name calling, all of it. I admit I swear when I am angry, but I never, well try my best to never, personally attack someone with name calling I think it is awful.

What got to me about your story was it seems people think that because someone is heavy they are not intelligent. I can see people thinking the person has no control over their eating, that it is a failure of will or something along those lines, but what does it have to do with accounting work? I wonder if the employer thinks something like if the obese person is seemingly undisciplined in taking care of themselves they won’t be disciplined in their job? Or, are they just simply not liking looking at the obese person? Simply an attractiveness issue? I guess if I think about it I have to admit that when I need to go somewhere and want to be taken seriously I bother to put on my make-up and dress nicely, because just how I look seems to affect things somewhat.

I think maybe it depends on what field you work in. Fields where credentials are a big deal might be easier. Like the sciences, research, things like that are going to be very focused on the persons mind, what they have published, rather than their outward appearance.

DominicX's avatar

@Pandora

And neither do I. That’s just human nature to be hostile to someone they find visually unappealing (don’t count me in that crowd). I may not be attracted to a fat person, but I am not going to treat them badly.

Facade's avatar

@DominicX I disagree that that is human nature. I think it’s mean-spirited. It’s human nature to be caught off guard, but not to treat them poorly.

Pandora's avatar

In her case I think it was because she would have to deal with clients and they thought she wasn’t attractive to look at. She was maybe about 23 or 24 when I knew her and holding down two jobs so I don’t see where they may think her lazy and she was always properly dress and conservative in her dressing style.
@Facade I agree.

mattbrowne's avatar

From http://organizedwisdom.com/The_History_of_Obesity

“There are an estimated one billion people in the world that are obese. There has been a significant amount of discussion on how the number of obese people has risen dramatically in the last decade or so. Many researchers feel that in order to understand the obesity statistics today, there has to be research conducted regarding the history of obesity.

The evolution of transportation has been listed as a contributing factor to the rise in obesity. The amount of processed foods that are readily available is also a factor and the 1903’s patenting of trans fats was a significant factor in the increase of obesity.”

bootonthroat's avatar

@dpworkin

“However, we must recall that the poorest people tend to be the most obese, and that is because they have the fewest nutritional choices, so there is still no point in blaming the fat person for being fat.” <== this is faulty logic.

The poorest people are the poorest because:
a) The man is holding them down.
b) God doesn’t love them.
c) They are lazy and make poor life choices.

The answer is of course C. They are lazy, dumb, and make bad choices each time they are presented with a decision. We would expect that lazy people making bad choices would not exercise as much and also make bad nutritional choices therefore leading to obesity.

janbb's avatar

@bootonthroat Nice to see someone who has all the answers! Judgmental much?

bootonthroat's avatar

@janbb I don’t have all the answers but this one is as obvious as a lady whose beeper goes off every time she backs up. This answer is so obvious it should have it’s own zip-code. This answer is so obvious there are lessor correct answers orbiting around it.

dpworkin's avatar

@bootonthroat That’s an idiotic conclusion. Poverty is a vastly complex social issue and simplistic “answers” like yours are just pissing into the wind. Go get an education before you start spouting bullshit all over Fluther.

bootonthroat's avatar

@dpworkin

First people who got fat because they ate more calories than they consumed was a vastly complex issue and now lazy/stupid people who don’t work/save “is a vastly complex social issue”. Who is “spouting bullshit all over Fluther?” You seek not to expose facts but to obfuscate them through invented complexity. I am sure lots of fat-poor people will listen to you preach about how it isn’t their fault while eating cheese-balls when they should be working or at least working-out instead. You aren’t doing them any favors. You are an enemy of the poor and the unhealthy because you ultimately push them to accept their position as the result of external forces when they could very well do something about it and live better lives.

dpworkin's avatar

I don’t even need to make an argument here. I’ll just let your post stand as a testament to your inability to thinks things through past the point of some doctrinaire party line.

janbb's avatar

@bootonthroat What he ^^ said.

bootonthroat's avatar

@dpworkin @janbb I am sorry to hear that you do not have a response.

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DominicX's avatar

@Facade

Well, there are some that would say human nature is mean-spirited. I generally tend to not be that cynical/pessimistic but I’ve seen people with less favorable physical features be treated badly often enough that it does seem to be somewhat of a natural response, at least for some.

bootonthroat's avatar

@nikipedia I did read. @Silhouette says 99% of fat people are fat due to overeating / lack of exercise:

I see a lot of people here pointing to medical issues as the cause for obesity, according to a study conducted Sep 19, 2009… About 1% of the cases of obesity have medical causes. The rest, we can only assume are due to overeating and lack of exercise.

Maybe you missed that post.

“overeating and lack of exercise” isn’t complex people! I couldn’t imagine what would happen if the topic actually was complex.

dpworkin's avatar

The more you talk, the more you reveal your ignorance.

meagan's avatar

@dpworkin Maybe instead of just saying that shes wrong, you prove it.

She is right. Most people are just big because they chose to eat poorly. No one can force a hamburger in your mouth.
Have you never heard the fool proof way to lose weight?
Look to the right. Look to the left. Now repeat any time that junk food presents itself.
Everyone here wants to be a victim. “Oh I can’t lose weight because of x ” “How do you propose I work out if I have arthritis?”
Well, if you want to allow your environment to control you and become a statistic, do it. But if everyone wants and enjoys listing prejudices against something that they can help… Its ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

Sure, I might be a bitch right now, or ignorant. But I still do have the upper hand here. I can get out of my house and run any time I’d like, shop at a “normal” clothing store, and not be stared at because of my size. So as many excuses you can list, it still doesn’t help you. Might as well be productive about it. As many television shows as I’ve seen about Obese people, its hard for me to think that the fattest man in the world can lose weight, but some people “just can’t”.

So sure, telling it how it is might be ignorant, but I’d rather be ignorant and “thin” than morbidly obese and “right”.

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Seaofclouds's avatar

@meagan “So sure, telling it how it is might be ignorant, but I’d rather be ignorant and “thin” than morbidly obese and “right”.”

Really? Attitudes like that are why people believe society has less respect for obese people. You may not think some obese people do have legitimate issues that cause them to have trouble losing weight and possibly not lose weight, but it does happen. If someone tells you that they have a medical reason that they can’t do it, why would you instantly say they are just making excuses? Have you been in their appointments with their doctors telling them what they can and can’t do. If you really have such a problem with obese people, why not try to help them, instead of giving them grief?

Ignorance is never an excuse for rude behavior. What is your driving force for being so certain that people are just making excuses for why they can’t lose weight? Is it fear? Fear that someday you could be in their position and that you would one day be looked at the way you look at those people and be unable to do anything about it?

bootonthroat's avatar

@Seaofclouds
Society SHOULD have less respect for obese people! Obese people failed one of life’s tests. When I look at an obese person I know that person doesn’t have what it takes. They know the DIRE CONSEQUENCES to health, social status, aesthetics, ability to perform physical tasks, and the people in the bathroom stall beside them but yet they still can’t control themselves. The biggest handicap the morbidly obese have isn’t physical, it is mental! I know some men just can’t keep their hands off of little boys. Even if they go to prison because of it when they get out they still have to find another little boy to dittle. Many fat people have the same mentality with food. They just don’t have control over themselves and don’t take responsibility for their own actions as evidenced by @dpworkin blaming everything and everyone else. I think society should reward people with self control, people who take responsibility, people who produce results… Only Japanese whalers have wet dreams about people with arm-flab. The rest of us are utterly repulsed.

meagan's avatar

@Seaofclouds Sorry. I know how much me getting fat would make everyone happy, but I make my health and exercise too much of a priority to fall victim to obesity.

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat have you ever thought, there are people who cannot exercise due to health issues! Just fruit for thought. Regardless, all people should be respected. Most people do the best they can with what they were given.

bootonthroat's avatar

@BoBo1946
“Most people do the best they can with what they were given.” <== this sounds nice, but it just isn’t so! Most people do not do their best. The average American watches 3 or even 4 hours of TV per day! (http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html) Could you imagine if the average American exercised this much? Is this “their best”? You have to be kidding me. Most Americans are operating at way below capacity. If this is our best then America must be one of the least-capable countries on the entire planet as we are one of the fattest. I do not think this is the case and it is insulting to Americans that you should classify our current performance as “our best”. We have grown embarrassingly lazy and should get off our fat asses at once but we are not yet incapable of leaving the couch.

BoBo1946's avatar

cool…you have answered the question! Do you think our society has a lack of respect and cynical attitude toward obese people?

have a good day!

dpworkin's avatar

One deranged person is not society.

mattbrowne's avatar

@bootonthroat – Lack of money is only a minor factor. The major factor is lack of education. It is possible to buy the ingredients for healthy fiber-rich meals without having to spend too much. Just a few examples: oatmeal, cabbage, lentils, linseed, carrots, beans, cheese, yogurt…

It’s ironic. If everyone used food pyramids like diabetics do people would not get obese. Here’s one example:

http://www.mamc.amedd.army.mil/ncd/images/diabetic-pyramid-large.jpg

Seaofclouds's avatar

@bootonthroat We will have to agree to disagree on the respect thing. I don’t think ones physical, mental, or medical situation should ever mean they are automatically disrespected. You may not like their choices, but that doesn’t mean we should disrespect someone just because of their weight.

@meagan I never said I would like for you to get fat. You may take your health and exercise very seriously (that’s a good thing), but there are things that could happen that could take away your ability to do the things you do currently. Would that be your fault? No. The point is that sometimes things happen that we don’t have control over.

Facade's avatar

@Seaofclouds If a person is unable to exercise, the least they could do is trade a salad for the double cheeseburger.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@Facade Some of them do, some of them don’t, it’s their choice. Trading up for salads instead of double cheeseburgers alone isn’t always going to help though. It would depend on what kind of salad and what they are putting on that salad (which becomes a matter of education about healthy eating). Most of those salads that are served as meals at restaurants have tons of calories, but people think they are healthy because they are a “salad”.

bootonthroat's avatar

@Seaofclouds
Of course you can order a bottle of salad-dressing at McDonalds with a little lettuce floating in there but I think everyone can read the nutritional-data available online, posted on the walls, or in the fliers. The kind of salad @Facade was referring to doesn’t come with high-calorie dressing. People know their salad isn’t healthy when it has gummy-worms in it or the dry-weight of the leaves is half the oil-weight of the dressing. I am only half-joking when I say this. Some of the salads really are that bad! ... I support the intended meaning behind @Facade‘s comment.

“We will have to agree to disagree on the respect thing.” OK. I think that society has self-defense mechanism and your attitude disables these defense-mechanisms leaving society open to low standards.

bootonthroat's avatar

@mattbrowne

Thank you! ... but I will say on the education end that anyone who wants to be educated is. There are LOTS of basic nutrition books freely available at the library, etc. Anyone who wanted to could read one in a few hours and could dive deeper if they needed to.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@bootonthroat Actually, I think most people don’t know how to properly read nutritional information. That is why it’s a matter of education. I wasn’t trying to downplay @Facade‘s recommendation about switching to salads, just pointing out that salads aren’t always healthy (not necessarily for @Facade, but for anyone else that was reading and didn’t know that). It’s not just the dressing that makes salads unhealthy, it’s the amount of meat, cheese, eggs, and other toppings we put on them. It also depends on the type of greens used.

The only reason I know about the healthy aspects of salads and how to read labels is because I had to take a nutrition course for my BSN. I learned a lot during that course that I hadn’t known before. It’s all a matter of education, which a lot of people don’t have when it comes to healthy eating habits.

bootonthroat's avatar

@Seaofclouds
If you are a lard-ass and you don’t bother to invest the small amount of time it takes to learn how to read a nutrition label do you really care what it says anyway? I mean, if you say you want to lose weight but then learn NOTHING about nutrition is this person even kidding themselves? It isn’t an eduction barrier—it is a Don’t Give A Damn barrier.

Facade's avatar

@Seaofclouds @bootonthroat My recommendation was made to say that those who are unable to exercise should eat healthily to combat that. Salad, vegetables, fruit, protein, whole grains, whatever. But they absolutely should not complain about not being able to exercise while stuffing their faces with junk. That would only ignite the wrath of @bootonthroat lol
And it’s not hard to be educated on nutrition. If they can surf the net all day, they can do the minimal amount of research it takes to know what eating well is all about.

BoBo1946's avatar

Hey, everyone that can “walk and chew gum” knows the foods to eat, diets, exercise, etc. But, people with a weigh problem, get tired of eating cabbage..it is easy for people who never been though this experience to be judgemental. Great example of people who tried hard to exercise and eat right would be Al Roker, eventually had to have the surgery to keep the weigh off. Oprah, one the smart women in the World, not to mention one of the richest, she can certainly afford the right foods, have a personal trainer, etc., but she cannot keep the weigh off.

Don’t judge another man until you have walked in his shoes!

Seaofclouds's avatar

@bootonthroat Once again we will have to disagree. There is a lot to actual healthy eating. A lot of people think they know what healthy eating is and they go by what they think they know. A lot of people think it is healthy to order that salad at the restaurant instead of the steak, but they don’t realize how many calories can actually be in those salads. If they are unaware of the difference and no one tells them, how are they going to know they need to educate themselves more?

How does one know what they need to teach themselves if they don’t know they have a knowledge deficit?

There are some people that just don’t care, but honestly the people that just don’t care aren’t usually the ones complaining that they can’t lose weight.

bootonthroat's avatar

@Seaofclouds
How do they know? They know because they are drilling extra belt-holes. They know because of their BMI. They know because what they are doing isn’t working.

As far as not knowing what is in the food you are eating that is impossible because they are keeping track of their caloric intake and other diet parameters, right? If they aren’t measuring their diet, weight, etc then again these people are not even making an attempt.

Facade's avatar

@Seaofclouds It really cannot be that difficult to look at ingredients and think “good…bad..ok..oh what’s that? Maybe I’ll look that up later.” That’s what I do. If the effort is put forth, knowledge can be obtained.
@BoBo1946 I’m not going to insult you by assuming that you think healthy people only eat cabbage. There’s fish, chicken, lean beef, rice, pasta, vegetable oils, tofu, the myriad of veggies and fruits. C’mon now…

BoBo1946's avatar

@Facade good grief, everyone knows that…Certainly Oprah, if you read my whole thread! geezzzzzzzz that was an example…everyone jokes about cabbage food etc…ummm

BoBo1946's avatar

On that comment, will leave it with you!

Seaofclouds's avatar

@bootonthroat And without knowing how to measure their diets and count calories, they can’t do it. My point is people have to learn. I’m not arguing that they don’t need to, just that without someone pointing them in a direction to start, they aren’t going to know where to start.

@Facade I don’t think it’s difficult to look up ingredients, I’m saying that if people don’t know what is good and bad, looking at the list of ingredients won’t help them.

Facade's avatar

@BoBo1946 Some people don’t, and they use that as an excuse, jokingly or not. I don’t know you, so I didn’t know where you stood.

bootonthroat's avatar

@BoBo1946
Oprah can afford a personal trainer and she can watch him do push-ups all day long but she will never get skinny. If I was Oprah’s trainer and I told her 4:30 am, time to run on the treadmill until you vomit I think she would fire me and continue to be fat instead.

Facade's avatar

@Seaofclouds I guess I just don’t understand how you could not know. If it’s been manufactured in some factory instead of grown or raised, it’s most likely not good for you. And then there’s the moderation rule (which excludes vegetables).

BoBo1946's avatar

@Facade btw, again, EVERYONE knows what foods to eat, how to exercise, etc…AGAIN, Oprah….she has a personal trainer, certainly can afford the right foods, and she has had problems with weigh ALL of her life.

AGAIN, don’t judge another man until you have walked in his shoes!

bootonthroat's avatar

@BoBo1946
It isn’t the money! Oprah doesn’t have the willpower. She is weak. End of story. You can’t buy willpower by hiring a personal trainer (at least not much).

Seaofclouds's avatar

@Facade That’s because you already know that information. It’s hard to think that other people don’t know what you already know (especially when it seems like common sense), but it happens. As a nurse, I’ve learned that I have to establish what my patients know before I can begin teaching them anything. It’s really amazing, when you sit down with someone and start teaching them about things like nutrition and healthy eating, to find out exactly what they think healthy eating is.

nikipedia's avatar

@Facade: Experts in the medical community can’t even agree on what’s healthy or unhealthy, so how can your average person be expected to know? Low-fat, low-carb, low glycemic index, South Beach, paleo diet, eggs are good, eggs have too much cholesterol, fat is bad, not all fats are bad…

Some choices are very obviously bad, and some are very obviously good, but the gray area in between is huge and I don’t think anyone has a full understanding of it.

JLeslie's avatar

@BoBo1946 But, Oprah also says it is about food choioces and exercise. She knows and tells her audience that a lot of it is psychological.

@all I just gave a book to a friend of mine, she leads Weight Watchers groups. The book, I can’t remember the name of it, has pictures of meals, like you can eat a tiny tiny amount of mac and cheese and half a hot dog, or a huge plate of grilled shrimp and veggies. Or, a piece of pie equals 10 apples, things like that. When I flip through that book I realize that just naturally I gravitate towards healthier choices. She believes that overweight people do a lot of unconscious eating. They eat a cookie, and don’t realize that was just another 180 calories, or grap a handful of cheetos when their kids are eating them, and don’t really count those things, don’t really realize how many calories are packed into those things, and then talk about how all they eat is salad. She lost 80 pounds about 2 years ago, and has kept off the weight.

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat have you ever had a weigh problem?

bootonthroat's avatar

@BoBo1946 I have a HUGE weight problem. When Obamacare kicks in I am going to be paying for billions of pounds of flab and all the medical problems it causes most unjustly!

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat is your weigh under control now?

Facade's avatar

@BoBo1946 I’m not judging. I’m saying eat what you know is good.
@Seaofclouds You sound like my mother and a great nurse =)
@nikipedia Within the gray area, I think the moderation rule can be used. I also think that the foods we know are good take up a large part and are plenty.
@JLeslie I can attest to that. I used to binge eat, and it is psychological, but being an athlete I was never fat. Since now I don’t, I believe it can be avoided if people try hard enough and don’t buy foods which are not healthy.

bootonthroat's avatar

@BoBo1946
yes, my weight is is under control and it always has been
i have never had a cavity
i don’t have any emotional baggage
i don’t see a shrink

People create half their own problems for themselves. I choose not to.

janbb's avatar

Anyone who has no emotional baggage hasn’t lived much. Just sayin’

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat oh, then how do you know that you have a weigh problem, if it has always been under control?

nikipedia's avatar

@janbb: I’d say people who think they don’t have emotional baggage probably have the most. Just sayin’.

bootonthroat's avatar

@janbb
Or maybe I don’t do things I won’t be proud of. If something doesn’t work out for me I know it wasn’t because I didn’t act reasonably.

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat btw, how old are you?

BoBo1946's avatar

@nikipedia :)))) just agreeing!

bootonthroat's avatar

@BoBo1946 The problem I have isn’t my own weight. It is other people’s weight which I am now expected to pay for via Obamacare. In the past I thought people should have the right to manage their own weight. Now that I am paying the bill I don’t think people have the right.

janbb's avatar

Luckily, I’ve got to go take care of a baby at this point.

nikipedia's avatar

@janbb: We’ll take care of this one.

janbb's avatar

thanks, niki. bye.

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat again, how do you know you have a weigh problem, if it has always been under control? How about the people that cannot exercise? Why do you think Al Roker had surgery to control his weigh problem? How about people with a different metabolism?

Facade's avatar

@BoBo1946 When he said he had a weight problem, he meant a problem with other people’s weight.

bootonthroat's avatar

@Facade thank you

I want to be VERY CLEAR that I think you SHOULD have the right to your own body but when I am put in charge of paying for it you lose that right.

BoBo1946's avatar

@Facade well, that would be a personal problem!

Seaofclouds's avatar

@bootonthroat You were paying for it before as well through Medicare, Medicaide, and technically Tricare as well (since it is the military’s health insurance). Not much is going to change in that matter just because of Obama’s Healthcare.

Besides, now more people will have access to medical care and be able to find out why they can’t lose weight and be taught how to properly eat and exercise in order to lose weight.

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat

I want to be VERY CLEAR that I think you SHOULD have the right to your own body but when I am put in charge of paying for it you lose that right.

don’t remember reading that in the Constitution!

bootonthroat's avatar

@Seaofclouds
In the United Kingdom 64% of people are obese and they have had Obamacare style health-care for a very long time now. I don’t think your argument holds much water based upon that counterexample.

JLeslie's avatar

@bootonthroat You already do, before the Obamacare. If you have health insurance, there are people in your group who are overweight. If you don’t have insurance, and find yourself in the emergency room or hospoital, you are paying extra already, to help pay for the people who cannot afford or do not pay their bills. If Obama’s health plan is covering more people, what makes you think those people are more likely to be fat, then those who are already in whatever system you are in currently?

DominicX's avatar

@bootonthroat

64% are overweight, not obese. There’s a difference. Just saying.

bootonthroat's avatar

@BoBo1946 The constitution? Doesn’t it give me the right to own a gun in NYC? Doesn’t it reserve all powers to the states not explicitly set aside for the federal government? This was a great document but I am afraid it has been “interpreted”.

Seaofclouds's avatar

@bootonthroat We’ll just have to wait and see what happens as more people have regular access to healthcare. I think it will help.

@DominicX Thanks for clarifying that it is overweight and not obese. There is a difference and it’s good to know that!

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat we have the right to bear arms!

Since, you don’t want to pay for people with a weigh problem, hate the word obese, what do you plan to do about it?

BoBo1946's avatar

Do you know something about people’s weigh problems that no one else knows? Please share!

bootonthroat's avatar

@BoBo1946
a) I vote.
b) I don’t give fat people a pass.
c) I do not sleep with or otherwise encourage fat people.

@Seaofclouds
It didn’t work in the UK. I think we should learn from history instead of repeating the same mistakes ourselves.

BoBo1946's avatar

@bootonthroat well, everything is not black and white. Keep living, you will find this out.

bootonthroat's avatar

@all
Good talking to you.
I want to respond to a couple more questions I have been neglecting and then I must be off.

Have a good evening.

jlm11f's avatar

I do think that society has less respect for obese people. But people are judgmental about practically everything, so that’s not much of a surprise. I didn’t read the whole thread because I don’t have all the time in the world, so I apologize if my points are redundant.

1. Someone mentioned airlines charging for 2 seats as being offensive. You might want to check out this thread on Fluther that discusses that. I personally don’t find that offensive because as soon as anything about you starts impinging on someone else’s comfort, then it’s important for you to take responsibility. This is regardless of whether you have a solid medical condition or it’s just a lifestyle issue. No matter the cause, you can’t expect others around you to accommodate you. I think there should be exceptions though, especially when traveling with family. If the person sitting next to you is going to be a family member and they have no problem, then you shouldn’t be charged more. Things like these can’t be black or white. I also think people that forget to put on deo and stink should be forcibly sprayed so that the rest of us don’t die sitting next to them for the 17 hour flight.

2. Someone mentioned rollercoasters. Come on. Really? You would rather they let you sit in the rollercoaster, you not fit, then the belt explode midride and you fall off and possibly jeapordize the lives of others on the ride? Again, I think this has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with safety. Sure one can argue they should expand the seat sizes, that takes money and what of the rides that already exist? They’re not going to rebuild everything from the seats to the tracks, it’s simple business sense.

As someone training to be a medical professional, I get to see obese people quite often when I’m shadowing or just at my clinical campus. I’ve taken history of patients that admit to drinking 12 cans of soda a day to smoking 6 packs of cigs a day etc. Some of these patients were obese, some had cancer unsurprisingly, that was the cig one etc. My point is yes people that honestly are unwilling to change as their health deteriorates do exist. While political correctness will have you believe that that is not the case, the reality is that majority of obesity cases are related to lifestyle issues. Only about 3–6% of obesity is due to genetic causes.

Of course this doesn’t change the fact that once you are obese, it feels like nearly impossible to get out of it. First you’ve got to really really want it and be willing for some major sacrifices. But even that isn’t enough. It’s a painful and hard process and I credit all who to try to improve themselves because it’s really not easy. What is way easier though is getting defensive and accusing people of being insensitive. In the doctor’s office, we approach weight loss all the time. The patient cannot get defensive there because they know it’s the truth, but if the same patient was told that by a friend, they take it as an insult. I understand the double standard though since you’re just expected to have conversations like these with a health professional.

Stuff that pisses me off: Recently I was visiting a friend at her college campus and she introduced me to her friends. One of them was overweight leaning towards obese. They were showing me the campus and so I suggested we walk around it but her this friend kept insisting we take the bus instead. She was so insecure about her weight, that she had taken such a defensive approach that even the thought of some exercise made her feel bad. I said something along the lines of “It will be good exercise” and she immediately responded with ”I don’t need exercise.” It’s not like I phrased it as “it will be good exercise for you.” But there it is.

One last thing: I don’t believe in going up to overweight people and telling them to lose weight. That is preposterous, and if anyone ever does this to any of you, I apologize on their behalf. I’d be pretty damn pissed if someone did that to me. But with family, all bets are off. My dad is borderline obese. Unfortunately for him, both his kids are medical students. When we learn day in and day out about obesity being a risk factor for so many diseases, we cannot let our dad’s health deteriorate while we watch quietly on the sidelines. It’s the problem of knowing more than the average person. I keep telling him he’s at risk for cardiovascular problems and I insist that he takes this seriously because I don’t want to lose him within a year. My brother takes a more direct approach where he tells him to stop eating, which I’m not sure is going to get the message through but you’re allowed to be blunt with family. I deny him dessert he’s also diabetic, and I look disapprovingly at his fast food not only can he afford healthy food, we always have home cooked food around. Even after all of the constant education we try to force on him, deep inside I know the need for change needs to come from him. Nothing we say is going to make a difference.

BoBo1946's avatar

@PnL well said!

JLeslie's avatar

@pnl About your college example. I think she probably took offense that you were implying she needs exercise. Even if you intended that everyone could get some exercise, to the obese person they probably feel offended. Maybe she can’t walk around a lot without being uncomfortable. I am not trying to generalize, my dad is very overweight and can walk longer than I can, but possibly she is very out of shape, or has a lot of pain when she walks for long periods. It would annoy me to take the bus all day also.

Facade's avatar

@PnL This link talks about the roller coaster thing. And some places have rides with cars specifically designed for the obese. That’s really ridiculous. And GA.
@JLeslie But the girl does need exercise…as does everyone else

jlm11f's avatar

@JLeslie I agree she took it personally. That’s my point. Our group had 6 people. I said “It will be good exercise”. She took it to mean “HEY YOU. I THINK YOU NEED EXERCISE.” I barely knew the girl, clearly I would never dream of saying anything like that to even a close friend. She was overweight leaning towards obese. Walking would make her sweat, but it wouldn’t have been anything worse than that. I can say this confidently since our mutual friend told me about her sensitivity on that issue later on. It was her insecurity about her body size that was bringing out her defensive mechanisms of projection on to others.

As a contradiction, I offer an example of a close friend of mine that is obese. None of us understand what’s going on. He’s better than my whole group in sports. Be it tennis, volleyball, frisbee, he outshines us all. He is trying his best and jokes about his weight all the time. While we’re walking upstairs to someone’s apartment, he’ll stop in between sit down and I’ll look at him questioningly and he’ll say “I can’t go any longer. I’m having an angina.” Clearly he’s just out of breath, but he jokes about his own health and takes it in stride. Different people approach the same problem differently.

JLeslie's avatar

@PnL So true that some people can laugh at themselves and some can’t. I prefer the route of laughing at myself and not being easily offended.

Yes, she took it personally cause of her own crap in her own head, her own insecurities. But, as with almost any minority, it seems we have to be extra careful with our words, because they are quick to feel offended or singled out. I fully believe your intent was good, no malice at all. I don’t know how the girl was built, but sometimes it is more painful for women than men, because they are more likely to hold weight in their legs, their thigh rub and get chafed. I don’t know how big she was or if she was wearing a skirt or slacks, or maybe she had on shoes that were uncomfortable, where men rarely do, but there might be reasons you are not aware of, that she never divulges to anyone.

BoBo1946's avatar

@PnL Wow, how many times has perception got my me in trouble. Thinking that i made a totally innocent comment and all hades turns loose on my beloved head!

reverie's avatar

@PnL That was a really thoughtful and very well-reasoned post, thank you for sharing.

@JLeslie I absolutely appreciate the standpoint that you are coming from, and respect that you are sensitively taking into account the feelings of others and encouraging empathetic responding. But to what extent should people change their behaviours to accommodate the personal insecurities of others? Personally, I view my own insecurities as mine to deal with, and I neither want, nor expect others to make allowances for them. Insecurity isn’t something that I want to be reinforced. Whilst I don’t think intolerance and insensitivity towards others’ insecurities is helpful, I also don’t think it’s terribly constructive to swing too far the other way either, since I think this can end up just reinforcing the vicious cycle of someone’s own insecurity, and by avoiding exposing someone to the insecurity may just result in removing opportunities for them to address their feelings and reactions to situations in a constructive way.

The parallel that comes to mind is jealous partners, who have no reason to be jealous. Of course, it’s very upsetting when someone is plagued by feelings of jealousy, but should their innocent partners start changing their behaviours to placate the jealousy? Would this actually be helpful for the jealous person in the long run? I guess what I’m saying in a rather muddled up way is that I think @PnL‘s comment was absolutely fine, and if I were in her position, I would say the same thing again. Unfortunately, it may have stung a little for the girl in question, but I hope that if she managed to put a more rational, rather than insecure perspective on things, it might actually be helpful and constructive for her to have the opportunity to mull over why she reacts to comments like that in the way she does. Perhaps that is overly optimistic, but I still think it’s reasonable to hope that someone may eventually choose to use opportunities like that, where they feel hurt, to be able to learn more about themselves in a positive way in the future (if, of course, the girl isn’t doing all of this already in private).

Sorry, I know this response has moved a long way away from the original topic, and I know it’s an awful lot of speculating to do about the mind of someone I don’t know at all, and in all liklihood, never will!

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
JLeslie's avatar

@reverie I agree with your first paragraph directed towards me. The analogy does not work for me, but I won’t go on a long tangent addressing the jealous partner. What I find ironic, as I think about it more, is if the girl is going to be embarrassed to say after walking several blocks, “hang on, I need to stop a minute,” If that is the case then it is the same as everyone having to ride the bus for her. The thing is we don’t know for sure her reasons. If she had suffered a stroke (I had a girlfriend in school I grew up with who had a stroke when she was a toddler, one side of her body is affected, but intellectually she is all there) and had some trouble walking and would slow everyone down or be difficult for the person, probably everyone would be fine accomoding her, and not be so critical of her discomfort.

mattbrowne's avatar

@bootonthroat – My guess is that 10 – 20% of all people can’t even identify at least 50% of available vegetables and fruits let alone knowing how to cook or eat them. Although there is access to education some people seem to have lost the ability to use it.

bootonthroat's avatar

@mattbrowne: “Although there is access to education some people seem to have lost the ability to use it.” <== great answer. I would like add some people never had the desire. People who do have the desire to learn need to work harder at understanding that some people have little or no internal curiosity. These people with reduced internal curiosity and inquisitiveness are defective individuals but, like obesity, no one wants to call out the guilty parties.

MagicalMystery's avatar

i think people that call the obese lazy don’t understand that if a large bag of cat litter weighs 25 lbs, and an overweight person is let’s say 50 lbs overweight (for example) then for them it would be like a thin person carrying two bags of cat litter. yes, if someone were to carry around two bags of cat litter all day they may not have as much energy as a thin person. they may not be able to run laps or work out as easily as a thin person. if someone is 100 lbs overweight then you’re talking 4 bags of cat litter. not only would it be physically hard for that person to even get up from a chair, but it would be extra hard for that person to work out, run, jog, walk up stairs, whatever. i think someone who has been thin their whole life could not even fathom it.

mattbrowne's avatar

@bootonthroat – Small children are curious by nature. They love to learn and explore. Some lose the desire in elementary school, others later. But the desire is part of our genome. The brain reward system even makes us feel good when we learn.

theresa47's avatar

Terry 4
I am an obese women. My comment is that it is no one’s business what I eat, wear, or how much I weigh. If I tried to tell anyone else about there weight, sexual orientation, race or anything like that I would have people coming out of the woodwork telling me that I am wrong and that I have no business voicing my opinions on anything. It is a matter of resepect. Just because a person is obese does not give anyone the right to vocalize any opinions. They should keep there opinions to themselves. The bible says judge lest not be judged. No one has the right to judge anyone for any reason.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I tried to read every post but I do have to be back to work on Monday (today is Friday.)

I saw where @Keysha commented about a baked potato, and said that if anyone said they didn’t put anything on it, sour cream butter, etc. she wouldn’t believe them. That’s exactly what you need to do. Salt and pepper only. Or fat-free ranch. Or salsa. When I changed my eating habits, I used salsa in place of butter and other fats a LOT.

If you feel a potato isn’t nutritious enough, also have a hard boiled egg. Eat an orange. All around that meal is cheaper and more nutritious than any cheap fast food.

You know, everyone sees the same commercials pushing fast food. Everyone sees the same commercials pushing video games. Those are not what is causing obesity. No one forces anyone to respond to the ads.

JLeslie's avatar

@theresa47 Who says it is always about judgement? Can be concern for your health. Or, annoyance that you are upping your chances of needing more healthcare, which costs everyone more money unless you straight self pay to the doctor, no insurance, no government assistance. It might be it makes the individual uncomfortable thinking about you, what they consider, abusing your own body. All sorts of motives people might say or think negatively about obese people. I am not saying I would comment on thses things, just saying it is not always a judgement.

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