General Question

stanleybmanly's avatar

Has anyone else's views on the question : (Snowden, villain or hero?) shifted?

Asked by stanleybmanly (16139points) May 13th, 2014

If the only reward for pointing out flaws and abuses in government is the guarantee of a ruined life and lengthy prison sentence, what other options were available to Snowden?

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19 Answers

ragingloli's avatar

I have always considered him a hero.
And bemoaned the cowardice of the world’s countries to not grant him political asylum.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

More hero-ish now than before.

johnpowell's avatar

Glenn Greenwald was on Colbert last night and said that in about two months the biggest revelations will be released. I was actually shocked Greenwald stepped on United States soil and wasn’t disappeared. Colbert did make a joke at the end of the interview about how he should have someone else start his car for a while.

Snowden and Greenwald are hero’s in my book.

MarvinPowell's avatar

No idea what else he could’ve done. But Snowden is beyond a hero, to me. He had major balls to do that, and I despise anyone who says otherwise. Its insane to think how brainwashed much of the country is, that a large group of idiots out there would actually think of him as a traitor. They’d even ask “well if he was so brave, why’d he run?” What the f-ck else was he supposed to do?

Governments are supposed to be afraid of their people, not the other way around. If anything, what he did was the most American thing anyone has done in a while. Check the Constitution. Its too bad most Americans are cowardly or unwilling to risk anything in order to stand up to the government corruption that’s been in place for the last 40 to 50 years.

Look at Occupy Wall Street. That could’ve been successful, but the media railroaded them and everyone took it as a joke. Naturally, a while ago, those corrupt people in power learned that the media was the key to brainwashing the American idiots. Now, the dumbest people in our country stay glued to Fox News or MSNBC and think they’re “informed.” Ironically, the most pure information is probably going to come from the media source most everyone doubts as credible: the internet. Not that the government hasn’t been trying for years to take THAT over. Net Neutrality probably won’t last forever. SOPA failed, but they’ll keep trying to take the internet over, too.

Anyway, back to Snowden. He’s like someone out of an action movie. Like The Bourne Identity or something. I kind of think of it like this: if the US government hates something or someone, they (the hated party) is probably doing something right. Any small dose of credibility they had went away after those WMD’s in Iraq were found. Sure, they were invisible and imaginary and they killed thousands of people for them, but that’s no problem! Let’s just keep trusting these old, slimy f-cks and following their every word!

Like I said, no one nowadays has a job, people are still losing their homes, and America is more-or-less a “second world” country. (We’re 16th place overall, which is a sh-tty position, considering only the UK, France, and Greece are lower “First World” countries than America.) There isn’t exactly “much to lose” as far as protesting and rallying against this corrupt “two-party” system of Asshole in Blue versus A Slightly Bigger Asshole in Red. It blows my mind that a racist elitist billionaire robot came this close to running the country in 2012. Not that Obama has done anything. Charismatic and cool, but just as useless as any of the rest of them. Obama made damn sure 2008 was the last time I’d ever vote for one of the big two candidates, if I even vote at all.

Its messed up how great the US used to be. How this USED to be a place you could be proud of. Even in the 90’s, America used to be great. Nowadays, its an embarrassment. An utter joke, full of lazy, obese, uneducated religious losers and a corrupt government. An “okay” at best country if you’re wealthy. An “utter sh-thole full of religious retards and uneducated morons” if you’re not wealthy or in any position of power. Our country’s only high points are Hollywood and our freedoms, and our “freedoms” are just an illusion. Sure, America isn’t as sh-tty as Syria, but it’s a horrible, horrible country to live in in 2014.

So, yeah. The fact that everyone is not cheering Snowden as a hero and trying to get a holiday (even an “unofficial” one) named after him makes me lose any remaining faith I had in this sh-tty, once-great country. I can’t wait to move to Toronto. To think, in the 90’s, Canada was considered a second-rate US. Nowadays, America isn’t even a second-rate Canada.

Rant over.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

Isn’t Snowden the computer tech who turned traitor against his home country, the USA?
Didn’t he leak Top Secret Documents to enemies of the US? And isn’t he now living in Russia?

So he’s a thief, a spy and a traitor. I believe he ranks up there with Julius and Ethel Rosenberg and Daniel Elsberg.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@Dan_Lyons Do you seriously believe the US civilians did have the right to know about such spying? I mean if you’re going to argue that what the NSA was doing was completely legal than shouldn’t civilians have the right to know about it? And if you’re going to argue knowledge of it is counter-intuitive to anti terrorism efforts well, my answer to that is “hogwash”. A terrorist knows he/she’s under the potential of surveillance/scrutiny of the government they intend of terrorizing; They’re not going to be sending texts along the lines of “letz blow up the wrld trde cntrz lolz” to one another.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

@El_Cadejo Why would I argue that what the NSA was doing is legal? This is beside the point. Do the American people have a right to know about such spying? Not the Classified materials. That’s why they’re classified. That’s why we have elected representatives to know about these things for us.

He’s a traitor for leaking the secrets to our enemies. That is pretty much a definition of being a traitor.

El_Cadejo's avatar

So when government agencies violate the rights of the civilians we should just blindly trust in our government to take care of us?

FireMadeFlesh's avatar

No change in opinion here. I still think he is an incredibly brave man, who gave solid evidence supporting what the astute knew all along anyway. There is no accountability in government without transparency, and there is no democracy without accountability.

GloPro's avatar

Why does he trickle out the whistle blowing instead of hand it all over all at once?

FireMadeFlesh's avatar

@GloPro Because it would get lost in the noise. There would be media coverage of one or two issues before the fickle public got bored and moved on. This way people are shocked at each and every new revelation, and they wonder how far it all goes. It is a better story, and is therefore better tactically.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

@El_Cadejo So when government agencies violate the rights of the civilians we should just blindly trust in our government to take care of us?

Of course not. But neither should we commit treason.

Cruiser's avatar

IMO Snowden was completely irresponsible in how he handled the confidential information he was entrusted with. I am sure what he knew about was nothing compared to the secrets our government has and needs to keep secret. What he did in exposing these top secret organizations in the US and abroad eviscerated our spy network and put lots of operatives lives at risk. He is a traitor and a coward and nothing more.

Plus if anyone is at all surprised about all this spying of US citizens is living with their heads in the sand. Thankfully we do have Government employees who can keep a secret no matter how reprehensible the information may be as our National Security depends on this.

ragingloli's avatar

”‘A matter of internal security’ – the age-old cry of the oppressor.” – Jean Luc Picard.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@Dan_Lyons So what do you propose Snowden should have done?

Dan_Lyons's avatar

^^^He could have released enough information to prove NSA tapping civilian phones, mail and wireless signals without using Top Secret materials which may have resulted in getting American agents killed.
He could then be the whistleblower as opposed to the traitor.

ragingloli's avatar

Be honest for a second. No matter how little he had released, you would have accused him of getting colonial agents killed.

FireMadeFlesh's avatar

@Cruiser And eviscerating an untrustworthy, oppressive, imperialist spy network is supposed to be a bad thing?

stanleybmanly's avatar

I too believe that he might have been more selective in what he exposed, but recent revelations from others who tried the route of correcting government illegalities by reporting them through legal channels, shows us just what happens to the bearers of bad news, truthful or not.

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