General Question

2TFX's avatar

Who shot down Malaysian Air flight 17 over Ukraine ?

Asked by 2TFX (435points) July 19th, 2014

Another mystery for Malaysian Air the only possibilities are
1. Pro Russian rebels
2. Russians
What is the reason for this action?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

35 Answers

Pachy's avatar

An unfolding story. Read the news and you’ll know as much as any of us do (or don’t).

LostInParadise's avatar

The evidence suggests that the plane was shot down by Russian separatists in the mistaken belief that it belonged to the Ukrainian government. The evidence is that the missile came from Russian held territory and was of Russian make, some messages that were intercepted, and the fact that the separatists will not allow Malaysian Airline investigators to into the territory to check what happened.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

Those are NOT the only possible suspects.

stanleybmanly's avatar

There is the third possibility that Ukrainian forces downed the plane. Whoever is responsible,the catastrophe was probably a mistake.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Don’t be surprised if any of the following are blamed in the days ahead.

1. Israel
2. Hamas
3. USA

This is the time when conspiracy theories start to develop.

Darth_Algar's avatar

It was ether pro-Russian separatists or the Man on the Grassy Knoll.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

All I have to add if Russia and the separatists are as innocent as they claim then why are investigators being denied full access to the crash site??

I mean if your innocent wouldn’t you want them there to show them you had nothing to do with it?

Dan_Lyons's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 That is a specious argument at best. After all, there can be a plethora of other reasons why they would deny investigators access to the crash site (it is a war zone, after all).

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Dan_Lyons if they want to prove they are innocent then they should go out of their way to provide safe access, anything else just smells fishy.

The Ukraine Government wants the investigators to go there, so I don’t think they would see a problem,and aren’t they the ones the separatists are fighting?

Dan_Lyons's avatar

^^^ I have no idea who is fighting whom anymore over there. I do know that in a war zone there is always quite a lot that a commander wouldn’t want a team of investigators finding.
And besides, who says these separatists are interested in proving their innocence?

stanleybmanly's avatar

It’s clear that if the rebels are responsible for downing the jet, they have absolutely no incentive for cooperating with investigators. After all the pressure of having the entire world strongly suspicious of your guilt is nothing compared to allowing experts to walk in and prove that “you did it”. The very words “rebel controlled area” amount to an open admission that the Ukrainian government is powerless to introduce investigators to the region. Already, the bodies have been “scooped up” and shipped out, and it’s a pretty good bet that any sort of incriminating evidence has suffered the same fate. It can only be hoped that the considerable photo reconnaissance assets available to the DOD have been utilized regarding the wreckage. But then again, most of the hand wringing and gnashing of teeth on the part of ALL the governments involved is for show purposes anyway. No one who “matters” really gives a fk, and everyone is quickly on the way to business as usual.

Pazza's avatar

Just thought I’d lob a conspiracy theory into the mix.

Is there any chance Malaysian Airlines MH17 is actually Malaysian Airlines MH370?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Pazza Oh I like it lets go with that.

basstrom188's avatar

The CIA or their dupes in the Ukrainian government, the European Union and their biggest and soppiest lap dog of all the United Kingdom. As soon as big master Obama blames Putin big slobbering poodle Cameron makes his “statement” in “Parliament”

Dan_Lyons's avatar

@stanleybmanlyIt’s clear that if the rebels are responsible for downing the jet…”

This is a complete fabrication of reality.
It is not clear at all who is responsible for the jet crashing.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I didn’t state that it’s clear that the rebels shot down the jet. That’s what the “IF” is about. What is CLEAR is that they would have no incentive to usher in investigators IF they downed the jet.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

Isn’t it funny how big a word the little if truly is. You can use it to make it seem as though you are making a clear statement when all you did was muddy the waters with supposition and nonsense.

They have no incentive to usher in investigators if they did not commit the atrocious act either.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Supposition and nonsense? IF you missed the “little word” the first time around, I“m sorry. But the sentence, its construction and meaning are all as clear as glass.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

They have no incentive to usher in investigators if they did not commit the atrocious act either.

stanleybmanly's avatar

What would they have to lose?

Dan_Lyons's avatar

What do they have to gain?

stanleybmanly's avatar

Proof that they’ve nothing to hide

Dan_Lyons's avatar

If they’ve nothing to hide they’ve nothing to prove.

stanleybmanly's avatar

That’s nonsense, and you’re too smart to believe otherwise. ‘I have nothing to hide, but you can’t look” is less than credible from an insurrection of more than dubious credibility.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

What the Russians and the rebels have to gain, IF they are innocent as they claim and the investigators prove they are indeed innocent then they can look a lot better in the eyes of the rest of the world who right now think , they did indeed down MH17 wether on purpose or by mistake.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Exactly. The rebels and their Russian allies had little enough credibility about ANYTHING prior to the crash. It would actually have been better to admit a mistake, and sacrifice some dupe for the “accident” than to claim innocence then deny neutral parties access to bolster the claim.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

@stanleybmanly With that kind of logic, the US govt should have investigated the scientists request to investigate charges that thermite bombs brought down the Twin towers and not burning jet fuel.
What did the US govt have to hide?
And in Florida in 2000 the govt should have investigated the charges of voter fraud instead of having the Scotus and the Florida supremes just appoint Bush president.

Your logic is faulty. The Ukrainians are at war and have no reason to allow anyone access to their property regardless of the compelling reasons.

This is the kind of logic that says you must be guilty if you run from the police. What a load of hawgwash.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

About time you two quit.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah we just don’t stand a chance at your rock solid take their word for it logic, we give up.

Dan_Lyons's avatar

I like how you need to be a we instead of just a me or an I.

Pazza's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 – Nope. I’ve dropped that one now.
Apparently those pesky ruskies called obama out on his youtube/twitter sourced evidence and dropped some knowledge about a fighter plane that appeared on radar climbing towards the airliner moments before it fell apart in the sky….....

But then again. I got that from a conspiracy webpage. So who knows?

New conspiracy….....

One of the two fighter planes reportedly shot down from rusky territory was the fighter plane that appeared on radar moments before the airliner fell apart in the sky…......

Pazza's avatar

Interesting comment on a video:

Posted by a ‘rip1980’ as follows.

As someone who works with satellite, not only is this fake, it’s not even plausible.

Meteosat satellites are geostationary (so the ground would virtually not be moving in relation to the satellite and 22,300 miles away), don’t stream live video and nothing near this resolution. On top of that, the two operating meteosats are no where near Ukraine.

Also, interestingly…......

Pazza's avatar

Just to be fair and ballanced. Here’s a news clip:

Plus comments:

Was he talking about US support, training and supply of ISIS, or the Libyan rebels, or Muslim Brotherhood, or Albanian terrorist in Kosovo?
100% legal to support your own people anywhere around the world from a Nazi government.

Well of fucking course.. are people really debating on whether Russia is really helping the Rebels? No. The big question is why the fuck do people care or think it’s their business. War isn’t fair so fuckoff. America supplies arms to so many people that their own forces are getting shot at with weapons they supplied.

(I spend far too much time on liveleak…........)

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