General Question

flutherother's avatar

Should we be more concerned about Ebola?

Asked by flutherother (30158points) October 14th, 2014

We are told that an uncontrolled outbreak of Ebola is unlikely in the West but should we be more concerned than we are? How reassured are you by your government’s statements? What if Ebola breaks out in a war zone in the Middle East? How could the spread of the disease be contained?

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122 Answers

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t think so.

JLeslie's avatar

In my opinion—no.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

If it breaks out in a medium to large city then worry. I’m not worried, more like mildly concerned at a distance.

osoraro's avatar

Sure. Be concerned. And while you’re at it, get your flu shot.

ucme's avatar

No, media driven scaremongering…again!
Flu claims way more victims & no one’s running scared or panicking.

Buttonstc's avatar

Not unless it mutates to become airborne. Until then, I think it’s unlikely to realistically pose much of a threat to most of us.

JLeslie's avatar

Actually, I like how @osoraro is thinking. Also, don’t leave your house if you have a fever or feel like crap in general.

Wash your hands a little more often and don’t shake mine unless really necessary, even if you are feeling good in the moment.

I really prefer viral and bacterial infection to stay at a minimum this flu season. Thanks.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The arrival of Ebola in the Middle East is going to be particularly instructive. In the past, the fear of gruesome plague has proven a surprisingly effective check on greed and ambition. Even fanaticism shrivels in the face of assured and grisly rampaging death. Perhaps “the wrath of Allah” will achieve that which eludes His followers.

flo's avatar

The people in health care are catching it. What does that say? Even if it not necessarily disease itself, that people need to be concerned about, it can’t be nothing to be concerned about.

Adagio's avatar

While making sure the healthcare systems of other countries in the world are robust enough to handle any cases they may encounter, don’t forget about Africa! Africa needs all the money and equipment and medical expertise it can get, I’m appalled to notice just how little emphasis there appears to be on assisting Africa cope with the situation as it continues to develop, the rest of the world seems more concerned with their own healthcare than it does dealing with Ebola at its very source, West Africa.

flo's avatar

@Adagio Correct. The ideal way to fight fire is to aim the extinguisher at the bottom of the fire.

JLeslie's avatar

I’m not sure I agree. The US and other countries go to Africa every time Ebola rears it’s head to help and try to control it.

Parts of Africa are stubborn and stupid all too often with rituals that seriously risk their health. When it came to AIDS some cultures within the continent believed raping virgin girls protected them from getting it! Some of the governments were reluctant to talk about how it was transmitted (shit even in the US Reagan didn’t want to consider anything but a gay disease to please his Christian Right supporters).

I’m sick of superstition, religion, tradition, and culture getting in the way of health.

I don’t mean all if Africa, like I said some. Africa is a huge continent.

I do agree that we need to battle it where it first crops up if not for altruistic reasons, at minimum for selfish ones.

yankeetooter's avatar

I don’t know. I am never one to panic, usually. ..but one does wonder at what point we would become alarmed. At 10 people? 20? 50?

Nowadays we are such a mobile society. And Texas is not Africa, as spread out as it may be. We should not casually dismiss such a deadly infection.

JLeslie's avatar

If it did spread to say 50 or 100 people the catastrophe is not only the sick, but also would be as more and more people are quarantined it affects commerce and in turn the economy.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@flo “The people in health care are catching it. What does that say?”

It says that people in health care are more likely to catch any communicable illness, as they’re the ones who, you know, work around communicable illness all day.

ibstubro's avatar

Yes. The Western World should be concerned about an outbreak. I think there will be one, probably contained outbreak.
Consider the ripple effect if there were families of a relatively little 4,000 infected in the US?

AshlynM's avatar

No. I’m more concerned with getting hit by a car. We’re all going to die some day, we just don’t know when or how.

flutherother's avatar

We haven’t been taking this threat seriously enough that is clear and I think we are continuing to underestimate the danger. Yes we should continue to get flu shots and look both ways before crossing the road but by the same principle we should be more proactive in tackling this new and horrible disease. Ebola is a threat to all human beings and it doesn’t recognise nationalities or borders. I think we need to step up our efforts to control the disease before it gets completely out of hand.

ucme's avatar

worrybucket

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, @ibstubro, that’s not a very good “prediction” because we’re actually in the middle of a contained out break.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@flutherother

Ebola is hardly a new disease. It was first recognized in the mid 1970s and probably existed long before that. There have been small, successfully contained, outbreaks here and there. One difference about the current outbreak that’s made it so severe is that it’s hit in poor, severely underdeveloped and unstable nations (Liberia and Sierra Leone especially). Where the outbreak has spread to more stable and developed neighboring countries (like Senegal and Nigeria) it has been contained.

ibstubro's avatar

WHO said that there could be 10,000 new cases a week by the end of the year if faster, stronger measures aren’t taken.

This week the CDC also came off of their “We roll our eyes at the thought of Ebola in America” stance and announced that they will have a trained unit on sight of any future outbreak within hours.

It’s akin to AIDS, “the gay disease” spreading to the wider population before meaningful treatment began. Ebola had to get past killing poor blacks in the 3rd world before it shocked the-powers-that-be into attention. Fact of the matter is, had funding not been cut for medical research, Ebola would likely be easily controlled or eliminated by now.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s sort of akin to AIDs but it’s not. Ebola makes you sick, very quickly. HIV, on the other hand, can linger in the body unnoticed for years, getting passed on and on.

Also, do you have any links to back up your claims about what WHO and the CDC supposedly said, @ibstubro?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ibstubro “WHO said that there could be 10,000 new cases a week by the end of the year if faster, stronger measures aren’t taken.”

10,000 new cases a week where? What countries?

” Fact of the matter is, had funding not been cut for medical research, Ebola would likely be easily controlled or eliminated by now.”

Speculation, not fact.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Funding cut? What in the world could they possibly do differently if they had more money?

ibstubro's avatar

10,000 Ebola per week.

I think one CDC citation is enough.

NIH on budget cuts.

I wasn’t comparing the diseases of AIDEs and Ebola, @Dutchess_III, but rather the response of the uninfected communities.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thank you.

From your link, “There could be up to 10,000 new Ebola cases per week in Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone. ” I imagine that there could be.

ibstubro's avatar

Small comfort, @Dutchess_III, considering the Dr. was a GP, and had had no known contact with an Ebola victim. And WTF, a photo journalist? Not to mention the nurse in Dallas.

The only way to contain an outbreak of that size would be to quarantine entire countries, effectively making them death zones, as there would be no way for the uninfected to support themselves. The world either has to rally around stopping Ebola now, or possibly face the choices of worldwide infection, collectively agreeing to watch entire regions die in pain, or supporting those regions 100% until the disease is abated.

This just floors me.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What Dr? @ibstubro would you be so kind as to explain a little more? Both of your links have references to multiple doctors. Nowhere do I find the phrase ” no known contact” in either of them.

The nurse in Dallas became infected because she was working with the first Ebola victim here, in the US, who died.

And why would it be so odd for a photo journalist who was working in Libera to get infected? Do photo journalists have some magic immunities we don’t know about?

ibstubro's avatar

The first link was an accidental dupe of the last, and I don’t have the time to replace it. There was a doctor that contracted Ebola without having treated Ebola patients, as reported on NPR at the time.

My point is that I cannot imagine taking more precautions and having better knowledge than a nurse treating the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the US.

My point it that a photo journalist does not, traditionally, exchange a lot of bodily fluids with visibly ill people, here or in Africa.

And what, my I ask, @Dutchess_III, is your point?

I’m more worried about people not being concerned enough than I am about them being too concerned.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Where was that doctor located?

It doesn’t have to be a massive exchange of bodily fluids. Even sweat can transmit it.

ibstubro's avatar

Yes, they constantly stress, the bodily fluids of someone who is visibly sick have to contact your bodily fluids for transmission to occur.

And yet a nurse that was one of a handful of people to treat the first Ebola case diagnosed in the US and photo journalist both managed to make that transmission.

I find that alarming, and more than cause for concern.

Dutchess_III's avatar

No one is saying it isn’t easy to contract. We’re saying that they’ll have it under control here, anyway.

Oh brother. That doctor was working in Liberia. He may not have knowingly come into contact with a person who was sick, but obviously he did.

If you’re in Liberia, you’re at risk, period. Especially if you’re working in a hospital or clinic.

ibstubro's avatar

Yes, and if the disease is somehow transferred from poverty stricken Africa to poverty stricken Mexico? No biggie? What if the man that landed in Dallas had landed in Mexico?

Can you imagine the flood of illegal immigrants into the US if there was an Ebola outbreak in Mexico? Panama? Brazil?

Until Ebola is contained, there is a large world risk. South Africa is not the only pocket of poverty in the world, and if there is another outbreak somewhere else, the repercussions could be devastating. Imagine what would happen to the global economy if everyone started trying to close their borders. I would think the US is at higher risk than many because of the porous Mexican border.

What if he simply bought a round trip ticket from the US to Africa.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

It’s out. We have likely lost control over it. The next few months will tell us if it’s something to worry about. It just takes one person to basically spread it intentionally for it to become a big mess here.

Buttonstc's avatar

@ibstubro

You wrote:

“I cannot imagine taking more precautions and having better knowledge than a nurse treating the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the US..”

I understand the point that you’re trying to make, but there are people FAR FAR more qualified than this particular nurse. But they’re not in Dallas.

They are in one of four treatment centers in the US specifically designed to handle highly contagious diseases.

The staff at these facilities do regular drills and have received far more training in infection control protocols than medical personell anywhere else.

The poor nurse in Dallas is like similar medical professionals all over the US who have standard training in infection control but nothing beyond that and certainly not hours of practice drills.

Obviously that’s not sufficient for dealing with Ebola. As a matter of fact there are nurses groups all over the country protesting that they all have inadequate equipment and training to deal this closely with Ebola.

Also, just today I saw an interview with Dr. Richard Besser, a former CDC director, who basically said the same thing. Even tho they haven’t yet announced this as a policy, he feels that, once a US case of Ebola has been diagnosed, they should be transferred to one of these four centers for ongoing care.

While every ER in the US can certainly handle the initial diagnosis and isolation, ongoing continuous care is an entirely different matter.

He has just recently returned from Liberia and visiting one of the top treatment centers there. They have been dealing with lots of Ebola patients day in and day out, yet there have been ZERO staff members infected. That’s right. NONE. All this proves is that it can be done. But it requires far more training and practice than the average medical professional currently has.

It just requires an extraordinary amount of training and unprecedented vigilance.

He describes his own experience suiting up and afterwards. There was a staff member assigned to him whose sole purpose was to watch every move he made while taking off the protective gear to be certain there were no mistakes made.

And this wasn’t just for him, a visitor, but standard procedure for all.

I don’t have the proper numbers right in my head, but in another interview I saw, someone was describing how the ” parts per ” saturation of Ebola was in the BILLIONS compared to HIV and others which are in the hundreds or thousands. That’s a startling difference. Billions is beyond imagination and helps to explain why this Ebola is SO SO contagious and easy to transmit.

At this point in time, it makes far more sense to send Ebola patients to the facilities best equipped to handle them until those beds are filled. Meantime, there obviously needs to be further intensive training and perhaps tighter protocols established for all hospitals.

In their attempts to avoid widespread hysteria and panic, I feel that the current officials at the CDC and elsewhere are downplaying how easily spread this disease is and not really being honest. The nurses’ groups are calling them on their BS and drawing attention to the obvious: the current level of knowledge and training of the majority of medical workers here in the US is inadequate to the challenge posed by Ebola.

They need to acknowledge this and DO SOMETHING about it ASAP.

ItalianPrincess1217's avatar

From what I understand, it’s not airborne. However, this doesn’t put my mind at ease. Many illnesses aren’t airborne but that doesn’t mean they aren’t easily spread. I am currently getting over a cold. I tried the absolute hardest I could not to spread my germs to the family but despite my best effort I think my little one is now coming down with it. Maybe I spread it before I realized I was sick. That’s the issue with Ebola. Just as easily as people spread their cold viruses, Ebola can spread too. Do I think it’s going to be a widespread, end of mankind outbreak? No. But I do think we need to prepare for a lot more cases.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ibstubro

So up to 100,000 new cases in the countries that have already been hit hard for reasons already stated. The point stands: more developed countries have been able to contain the outbreak.

And -

“Yes, and if the disease is somehow transferred from poverty stricken Africa to poverty stricken Mexico?”

Seriously dude? You’re comparing a country like Liberia to Mexico? Liberia is a seriously undeveloped beyond 3rd world shithole with little in the way of modern infrastructure and amenities and a near universal poverty level. Despite how the media and much of our popular culture likes to portray it Mexico is a modern, developed nation with one of the largest economies in the world and a growing middle class. A nation like Liberia could not, for example, produce someone like Slim Helu (the world’s wealthiest person).

Dutchess_III's avatar

What I don’t get is why those two nurses hopped on planes not long after treating the first guy who died.

flo's avatar

Other than geting sneezed /coughed on, diahrrea/blood/waste product/sweat somehow ends up on your skin which just happens to have a cut?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Or you touch an infected person then rub your eye or something.

flo's avatar

@Dutchess_III Yes that too. Okay so those are the only ways of getting it? How many health care workers just happen to have cuts and just happen to have allowed the cut to get exposed to the fluids in question, or get sneezed/coughed on or rub their xyz with infected hands? It doesn’t explain to me how so many health care workers got it. The fact that they happen to be around the sick more than everyone else, that the infrastrucure is very poor, doesn’t seem enough of an explanation to me. It is not just one or 2 or 3 of them.

JLeslie's avatar

I can’t wait to see what happens when flu season kicks in. I always talk about how annoyed I am that people with the flu go to the doctor (unless they have a life threatening case of course) and this year people are going to be afraid their flu is Ebola?! Holy shit, medical offices and hospitals are going to be overflowing.

Like I said above I’m not in a panic, but deaths from flu are small in number compared to deaths from Ebola if you look at what percentage of people die who contract the disease.

I agree with @ibstubro, I actually basically said it also in a previous answer, this reminds me of how the government responded to AIDS, although with this we have 40+ years of knowledge of Ebola. We are not scrambling to isolate the virus. The government was too slow to protect people with hemophilia during the beginnings of HIV even though they knew it was being transmitted through blood. They did seem to not protect our health care workers sufficiently concerning the Ebola patient. CDC came out and admitted they should have handled the Dallas case differently. All this talk that things are different here than Africa, but there are still things in common.

@Darth_Algar Why do you say it is contained?

ibstubro's avatar

Yes, a second nurse in Dallas has come down with Ebola. Two out of a handful with contact.

In their attempts to avoid widespread hysteria and panic, I feel that the current officials at the CDC and elsewhere are downplaying how easily spread this disease is and not really being honest” My thoughts, and point, exactly @Buttonstc.
I’ll clarify: “I cannot imagine anyone without specific Ebola training taking more precautions and having better knowledge than a nurse treating the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the US.” I’d be scared spitless. Not that I wouldn’t help, but I wouldn’t help if I had any open skin abrasions, and I probably would not touch my nose, eyes or mouth for the duration.
Do you know the capacity of the 4 treatment centers? The only thing I’m close to panic about is the lack of support for the affected countries.

Right you are, @Darth_Algar. How could 7,000 poor Africans dying per week affect global health or economics? Meh. Box them in. Just think how much more prosperous the region can be with only 30% population
Mexico is practically Mayberry.
You win. Your reasoning astounds me.

I think Ebola had to show itself in the US to get the US into high gear, @JLeslie. Much like HIV demonstrating that it can transmit through heterosexual sex and birth ultimately made it a largely ‘manageable’ disease.

JLeslie's avatar

@ibstubro I don’t think they are in higher gear than previously.

ibstubro's avatar

I do, somewhat, @JLeslie. The Western world promised X amount of hospitals in Z amount of time. There are already excuses and backtracking, but there seems to finally be US sponsored Ebola units coming open in the area.
Did you see my link to a Doctor that has dedicated her life to global emergency response that could find no sponsor to Africa?

ibstubro's avatar

@Dutchess_III, the CDC refutes “No one is saying it isn’t easy to contract. We’re saying that they’ll have it under control here, anyway.”

The current information from the CDC in the US is that you have to get someone’s bodily fluids into your bloodstream in order to transmit the disease. Not an easy task. Yet, 2 trained nursed in Dallas managed it?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ibstubro

Yes, Mexico has it’s issues. Every nation does. You did nothing to refute what I said and instead fell back on dramatics.

Aethelwine's avatar

Stop touching your face

JLeslie's avatar

I always say don’t touch your face (my mom always said it). I firmly believe cold weather gets a lot of people sick partly because the cold can make out nose run and we touch our face. We aren’t sick yet, just the cold weather is making us touch our face. Same with change of season. It’s a time of allergies for a lot if people. Itchy eyes, runny nose. I never get a change of season cold and I don’t have seasonal allergies. Same with my husband. He does get sick more often than me, but still not a lot, but he is not as neurotic as me about not touching his face, maybe it makes a difference? I can’t be sure of course.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@JLeslie “Why do you say it is contained?”

Look at the more stable and developed nations in that region like Senegal and Nigeria. They’ve gotten a handful of cases, but it hasn’t spread in their countries. They’ve managed to contain it to those handful of cases.

JLeslie's avatar

@Darth_Algar is it even in other countries then what was named? I didn’t realize.

I remember seeing a movie many years ago (fiction) where they showed ID doctors from WHO or CDC or similar, travel to Africa because of an outbreak. In the movie they basically set an African village on fire/bomb to stop Ebola in it’s tracks. I have no idea if that had any truth to it.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Of course you didn’t realize it. The media isn’t mentioning those countries where they’re dealing with it. They’d rather focus on countries with poor medical care that can’t handle it (the media do love to incite fear).

Certainly if it was in a movie there must be truth to it.

JLeslie's avatar

Lol. Of course ~. I don’t even watch the news for the most part. I’m surprised my mom hasn’t called me with the real dope. I remember during the H1N1 panic she called and said shortly after the first reports that cases were dying down just like a typical summer and there was no reason to think it would be more prevalent than a typical flu season. Everyone all freaking out, it was amazing to watch. I had so many posts asking for prayers for family members with the flu.

Switch to last year when the flu was in high gear and I saw people post how miserably sick they were. Basic moaning and complaining, but no one panicked they had H1N1. A lot of those cases likely were H1N1, it was still circulating in a big way this past winter, but the media didn’t talk about so it was like everyone forgot.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@ibstubro If you have the virus on your hands and rub your eyes, or touch your nose or mouth or any area of your body that has mucus membranes, you can get it that way. From the mucus membranes it finds its way into the bloodstream.

ibstubro's avatar

@Darth_AlgarYes, Mexico has it’s issues. Every nation does.” is certainly dramatic. Of course, you’re right. That is an insight few would have. Certainly pinpoints the discussion and adds a new dimension.

@Dutchess_III:
“Yes, they [the CDC] constantly stress, the bodily fluids of someone who is visibly sick have to contact your bodily fluids for transmission to occur.
And yet a nurse [two nurses] that was one of a handful of people to treat the first Ebola case diagnosed in the US and photo journalist both managed to make that transmission.
I find that alarming, and more than cause for concern.
The CDC has been downplaying the crisis from the beginning, leading, I believe, to the healthcare workers becoming infected in Dallas. They’re still holding to the position that “there has not been a confirmed case of airborne transmission” which is ludicrous. Do you remember every time anybody sneezed in your presence in the past two weeks?
The fact of the matter, and the point I’ve been trying to make, is that intelligent, educated people from the Western world are becoming infected following the information our governments are giving out. Either the government doesn’t know, or they are using propaganda to downplay the risk. Either way, it needs to stop before someone ends up dead.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yes, @ibstubro. If you have the person’s sweat or tears or blood on your hand, even a tiny bit, and you rub your eye, their body fluids have come in contact with your body fluids.

@What is it you’re envisioning when you say ”...the bodily fluids of some one who is sick have to come into contact with your bodily fluids…” Are you thinking strictly about sex and kissing and things like that?

ibstubro's avatar

How stupid is this statement:
All cases of human illness or death from Ebola have occurred in Africa (with the exception of several laboratory contamination cases: one in England and two in Russia). One travel-associated case was diagnosed in the United States on September 30, 2014. On October 12, 2014, a healthcare worker at Texas Presbyterian Hospital who provided care for the index patient has tested positive for Ebola. CDC confirms that the healthcare worker is positive for Ebola.

Maybe the CDC doesn’t have Google?

The CDC is rewriting it’s Ebola information to meet current events. It now says that only healthcare workers are in danger outside of certain areas of Africa.

The information that is being officially disseminated in the West is being crafted, not reported.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Nope, still no rebuttal of Mexico being a modern, developed nation with one of the largest economies in the world. Just snide sarcasm.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@ibstubro Here is one way the photojournalist could have caught it, as told by another photojournalist.:

There are always flukes. If you got close when they disinfected a car or body and they sprayed up, you could get some Ebola from the spray. You can never be 100 percent safe, especially in situations like that.” ~ Link

flo's avatar

@ibstubro You’re so right on.
It is dumbfounding to me.

And why are the media telling us the nusrses’s names? Isn’t there something about confidentiality of one’s medical info?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m sure they got their permission.

ibstubro's avatar

I agree, @flo. The situation is so serious and they look like such idiots.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Breitbart? Seriously? A link to a beyond biased right-wing website with an anti-immigration stance with a story that doesn’t actually provide a source for its claim? Might as well cite Fahrenheit 9/11 or Oliver Stone’s W. as a credible source of information about George W. Bush and his administration.

ibstubro's avatar

The link is for the quoted document only, and not the story that contains it, and that was so stated above, so you do not have to set your hair on fire, darthy.

flo's avatar

@Darth_Algar
1)An accident of birth is just that an accident of birth.
2) Re. so and so the wealthiest person in the world, wealth is not be all and end all.
@Dutchess_III but why even ask the permisssion in the first place? What does that add to the story? How does it help the public?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ibstubro Yes, and the article in no way backs up the quoted part.

@flo Try to understand my point then reply.

ibstubro's avatar

That is why I disallowed the article, @Darth_Algar. Try to understand my point, and then reply.

flo's avatar

@Darth_Algar You have read @ibstubro‘s posts Have you read @Buttonstc‘s post, and
@flutherother‘s post permalink ?

flo's avatar

@Darth_Algar “Ebola is a threat to all human beings and it doesn’t recognise nationalities or borders. I think we need to step up our efforts to control the disease before it gets completely out of hand.” to quote @flutherother. You are against that?

ibstubro's avatar

@Darth_Algar only acknowledges things that he can respond to in a negative way, @flo. Either disallow the source or pick a minor error and try to derail the meaningful discussion. Proof. Find a contribution. Anything that was not simply trying to drag down or negate someone else’s contribution.

dappled_leaves's avatar

@ibstubro I don’t understand why you posted the Breitbart link, either. That article provides no link to an actual quote, and as @Darth_Algar said above, they are generally full of shit.

Response moderated
flo's avatar

@dappled_leaves what is your own answer to the OP? And my last post?

ibstubro's avatar

Ah, @dappled_leaves, I know nothing about Breitbart. The link was a Google result that I read and found suspect, but posted with a qualifier. Had you been active in the discussion at that point, I might have tried to source multiple times as I did earlier when quoting ‘news’.

As it is, trying to discuss something with only @Darth_Algar, I find it best to be minimalist and post as little supporting information as possible. I’m just providing more nits for him to pick, not reinforcing my point.

dappled_leaves's avatar

@flo My answer to the OP’s question is that I think we should be more concerned about Ebola. If by your “last post”, you are referring to this comment, I agree with that as well.

@ibstubro This is not a conversation between two people, it is an open question on a public forum. What you posted is for all to see and respond to.

Not that it matters, but I have generally agreed with many of your points on this question. You really lost me with the Breitbart quote – specifically because you seemed to be posting the link to Breitbart because you could not link to the source. And the reason that you could not link the source is that it does not exist. That should raise a red flag, whatever you know or don’t know about Breitbart.

Aethelwine's avatar

erm, just a thought

More than 3,000 teens die each year in crashes caused by texting while driving. source

We have one death from Ebola in the U.S.., and he wasn’t a U.S. citizen.

ibstubro's avatar

I apologize for the Breitbart citation, @dappled_leaves. I know zilch about Breitbart and I didn’t try to re-source the information. You notice that earlier in the thread I provided 3 versions of the same news story because @Darth_Algar and @Dutchess_III were both questioning, with others obviously participating. @Dutchess_III thanked me and continued the discussion. @Darth_Algar made his usual subtraction and continued on.

As I was responding to @Darth_Algar specifically, I took into account that there would be no positive outcome, and did sloppy work. So be it. If it was a problem for you, all I can do is acknowledge my mistake, and move on. I had done a Google search, opened 3–4 of the top stories, and only read down far enough to find the information that seemed pertinent. I thought the site looked kind of hinky, that’s why I tried to distance myself from the source.

I can only point you to the number of valid links I have provided in this thread alone. As I have pointed out, there are some members that express an opinion, then hold it up as a hard, shiny, incontestable fact. I try for the opposite. Mistakes will be made. Life, and discussion, will go on.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@flo It’s what people want to read. Doesn’t even matter if the story is newsworthy.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ibstubro

So you knew the link was shit, but posted it anyway? And you may not want to believe it, you may want to whine about me instead, but I’ve read every link you’ve posted. And your links have not, as yet, debunked anything I’ve said.

ibstubro's avatar

That’s because I’m putting up facts against your opinion, @Darth_Algar. You’re certainly entitled to your baseless opinions.

You have not posted a link, so you have not debunked a single thing I have said. Including the link that I explained to @dappled_leaves and was humble enough to apologize for.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Where has everybody been all day?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ibstubro

But you haven’t put up facts. Like with the Mexico example. I stated the fact that it’s a modernized nation with one of the top economies in the world. In response you put up some link that brings up a 404 error, but from the looks of the URL was suppose to be about cartel violence (which isn’t related at all to my point about Mexico’s development and economy).

You expect me to seriously regard that link that you yourself acknowledge is bullshit? Really?

ibstubro's avatar

@Darth_Algar

” Like with the Mexico example. I stated the fact that it’s a modernized nation with one of the top economies in the world.”

Your problem is that you confuse “stating” with fact.

I state that the moon is made of green cheese. That is now a fact.
Well, or would be if I wanted it to be, which I do not.
But I could still state it, and pretend it was fact, if it contradicted someone else’s post.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ibstubro

If you can debunk what I said then debunk it already.

And because I know you’ll keep harping on it until the end of time otherwise, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

ibstubro's avatar

Wiki, phah, @Darth_Algar You’ve called me out on that countless times.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@ibstubro

Show one time, one single time, where I have done so. I generally have no qualms with Wikipedia as a general source of info, particularly when the information in the article includes citations.

ibstubro's avatar

Yes, to answer your question, @flutherother, since the time you asked the question, the CDC has decided that we should definitely be more concerned about Ebola, both here ain the US, and abroad.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Here is a better link @Darth_Algar. The one you posted was moved.

Wow. Mexico is #15 out of about 200 countries. I wouldn’t have thought that.

And Japan always slays me. It’s just a little island but they’re consistently in the top 3 or 4.

flutherother's avatar

@ibstubro Yes it is good to see action is being taken at last. I just hope it isn’t too little too late.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I, personally, think that the media is having a hey day with it, making it sound far worse than it is here.

flutherother's avatar

@Dutchess_III Do the US media report much on the situation in West Africa?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Not as much as they rant about the 3 (three) American cases.

flutherother's avatar

@Dutchess_III I thought that might be the case.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Like this.

“Given that this person was at apparently no risk of having an Ebola infection, I find the whole episode baffling,” said ABC News chief health and medical editor Dr. Richard Besser.” What? He handled the guys specimens. Of course he was at risk!

flutherother's avatar

It isn’t all bad news from West Africa (Hope the link works in the US.)

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thank you @flutherother! That’s heartening.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III

That’s actually the exact link I posted, but for some reason Fluther cut off the last ) in the URL, so it doesn’t bring up the proper page when you click on it. Works fine if you copy-and-paste it however.

“Wow. Mexico is #15 out of about 200 countries. I wouldn’t have thought that.”

Yeah, one thing I’ve learned from having friends in, from or have lived there is that people this side of the border tend to underestimate Mexico.

JLeslie's avatar

I’d say both Mexico and Brazil are misunderstood by most Americans. My SIL was always shocked by how Americans perceive MX and Mexicans. It’s the same as how Americans picture Italians to be olive skinned and dark hair. It’s because America traditionally has the poor migrate to our country and so the people from the poorer regions become the stereotype in our minds.

ibstubro's avatar

So, risk of Ebola outbreak is determined by GDP? That means Russia and India have a lesser risk of outbreak than Sweden?
South Africa is #30 on a list of “about 200 countries”, @Dutchess_III.

Of course Mexico and Brazil are misunderstood by Americans @JLeslie. We have a competing 24 hour news cycle that accentuates the negative because that brings ratings.
I’d love to tour Mexico with Mexican’s I know. We frequent the local Mexican restaurant 0–6 times a week and have become familiar with Augustin and Adella, brother/sister servers. They don’t paint a particularly rosy picture of Mexico, but, then again, they obviously wanted out.
I’d love every minute of it if they could take me back to their roots.
See Mexico through their eyes.
What you have done, @JLeslie.

I think there is a lot of romanticism in the US over swarthy figures

Response moderated (Off-Topic)
Dutchess_III's avatar

It means, @ibstubro, that countries with a higher GDP have more options at their disposal to combat it, therefore less possibility of an epidemic.

dappled_leaves's avatar

@ibstubro ...which was actually the point you were trying to make here.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m curious as to why @ibstubro seemed to single out South Africa. There is only one small outbreak there. The vast majority of the outbreaks are in central Africa.

flo's avatar

For example, you catch it if you come in contact with the blood, vomit diahrrea of an infected person
Is that an accurate statement?

Dutchess_III's avatar

You can catch it that way. But still, people are over reacting:

Two nurses who were in close contact with Thomas Duncan contracted Ebola – two.

Yet not a single person Duncan was in contact with before he was quarantined, nor anyone these two nurses were in contact with (including a plane filled with people), have shown signs of having the virus. And while there’s still a window of concern for those people who were in contact with both nurses, Duncan’s friends and family have all now emerged from quarantine without a single person having caught it.”

From this article.

Buttonstc's avatar

And let’s also remember that unlike the other Ebola patients treated in the US thus far, there are a couple of things unique to the Duncan case:
1.) all the others were treated at one of the four centers especially equipped and with medical personnel trained and experienced in procedures for treating highly infectious diseases. Dallas was an ordinary hospital still figuring out the unfamiliar protocols for Ebola.

2.) they went full court press to try to save him and needed to implement intubation as well as hemodialysis (filtering his blood). Both of these procedures carry with it a significantly higher risk of infection to the personnel treating him.

3.) From what I understand, they had not yet Implemented a “buddy system” where each person is watched carefully while donning the protective gear as well as taking it off to be certain that no errors are accidently made. This is standard practice for dealing with highly infectious diseases.

With all the other US Ebola cases treated, there was an experienced team and ALL the proper equipment and following the same protocols as “Doctors Without Borders” has established in their African treatment centers and from results, apparently, no significant errors were made.

For the reasons listed above, Dallas was different for several reasons and it’s difficult to pinpoint exactly which one was responsible for the infection spread.

Hopefully, this will be a learning opportunity and things will be done differently in the future.

ibstubro's avatar

@JLeslie, you have toured Mexico with a Mexican? I’d kill bugs for the chance!

Hopefully, @Buttonstc, this will be a learning opportunity that allows the Western world to realize that 2–5,000 humans dead in one part of the world establishes risk for the rest of the planet. Disease. War. I don’t understand why it takes so much misery to raise a red flag.

Obviously I’m too idealistic about government.

Response moderated (Off-Topic)
Buttonstc's avatar

@ibstubro

You’re right. We ignore and try to isolate Africa at our peril.

It’s no longer a case of the hippie philosophy that we are one world being a sentimental or metaphorical expression.

In this day and age, It is literally true that we are one world.

We neglect Africa in this time of crisis to our own eventual detriment.

(And, yes, you really are too idealistic about government :)

flo's avatar

@Dutchess_III “But still, people are over reacting” Yes, partly because by “direct contact” they mean (for example) skin with cut, abraision, etc., not just any contact. Although doesn’t all that gear that they have to wear say otherwise?

Dutchess_III's avatar

But casual contact isn’t terribly dangerous. The health people are in contact with the blood and the vomit and the diarrhea, so of course they want to be shielded from head to toe.

flo's avatar

Generally,people understand coming in “direct contact” with someone to mean, 1st hand contact,. as in shaking hands with someone with Ebola, or the flu or peanut butter…etc. not shaking the hands of the person who shook the hands…

For sure they should have the gear I just mean the 2 things together on first blush, coulld make people overreact.

flo's avatar

Yet another health care giver contracted it. I’m still baffled.

Which page is better?
http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/transmission/index.html
“blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, of a person who is sick with Ebola”
or
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/31/5952515/facts-you-should-know-about-the-ebola-outbreak
or another one?

Dutchess_III's avatar

She was in Liberia or someplace, working closely with them. Why is that baffling?

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s not coming in direct contact with the person. It’s coming into direct contact with bodily fluids.

Buttonstc's avatar

I just finished watching a riveting interview on 60 Minutes with some of the Dallas staff who cared for Michael Duncan.

It should be available on their website soon for anyone interested.

flo's avatar

@Dutchess_III the “Yet another health care giver contracted it.” is a he. A doctor a health care giver too. The she you are referring to is one who is/was thinking of suing, tested positive once and negative once.

@Buttonstc I was half listening to it.

flo's avatar

…oops , “tested positive once and negative once.” should read had fever once. Regardless.
@Dutchess_III that would mean it goes through the skin, which it doesn’t, which was my point in a couple of posts. It has to be in via direct contact with membranes, via compromised skin, via sexual activity, etc.

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