Social Question

SQUEEKY2's avatar

If a woman signs up, and gets paid well to pose for a mens magazine.....see details?

Asked by SQUEEKY2 (19406points) January 21st, 2015

And does all this on her own free will, is she being exploited?
Or are all women in general being exploited by her posing?

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61 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

Yes, and yes.

The exploitation is in the objectification of her body. She may be agreeing to it, but people do things that are not in their higher self interest in order to make money all the time.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Sorta like your typical wage slave working for a wage they can’t live off of?
They may be agreeing to do it,and put their body through the hours of work,but and I quote you on this(but people do things that are not in their higher self interest in order to make money all the time.)
So are these people working for an unfair wage,not being exploited as well?
At least the woman who posed got paid well for her efforts.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Exploitation implies that the person is somehow being harmed by the act. I do not believe this is, as a matter of course, necessarily the case.

ucme's avatar

Not in the least, that is the mantra of the personally offended, protest monkey.
Sex, in its many forms, sells, that has always been the way & probably always will.

hominid's avatar

@zenvelo: “The exploitation is in the objectification of her body.”

What can this even mean?
Or do you mean in the “wage slavery” sense that @SQUEEKY2 refers to? In that case, we’ll likely have to find people living strictly off investments to find someone who doesn’t meet this criteria.

elbanditoroso's avatar

If she’s doing it of her own free will, and is happy about it, then it’s her business and no one elses.

To say that she has some responsibility to “protect all women” is beyond ridiculous. How can anyone (@zenvelo included) put that sort of responsibility on her?

Further, if she chooses to pose provocatively, she is – by the nature of the job – choosing to objectify her body.

Why are the feminazis so willing to take away a woman’s right to choose her profession?

BlackSwanEffect's avatar

If the woman chose to do it, despite having other options, it cannot be exploitation.

I’m sick of the “exploitation of women” line. It belittles women’s intelligence, implying that they only choose that path out of ignorance. Some women simply enjoy being admired for their beauty. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Cruiser's avatar

By definition exploitation is to utilize, especially for profit; turn to practical account: advance or further through exploitation; promote. Since this is a magazine, they are offering sums of money to these women to pose nude in order to sell magazines. Therein lies the exploitation. The other side of the coin is that by accepting the money to pose nude, the women are exploiting their God given beauty and boobs for a financial gain.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Cruiser – by that definition of exploitation, every employee everywhere is being exploited by their managers, because the managers are promoting (furthering, whatever term you want) the company by paying the employees for their work.

Baseball teams are exploiting their pitchers and catchers by paying them large sums of money for their physical talents. (How is that different from a woman posing nude?)

The problem is that “exploitation” is a loaded word – despite your dictionary definition, there is no hard and fast rule. Exploitation is one of those words that means different things depending on which side of the table you are on.

It’s a catchy word if someone wants to complain…

tinyfaery's avatar

Women are one of the biggest culprits of keeping women subjugated and objectified. We all grow up in the same culture. Girls and women see the attention half naked women get and they want to feel beautiful and wanted. They do not understand the implications.

I am sometimes shocked that certain women in the public eye have no problem posing for Maxim and other men’s magazines. I automatically lose some respect for them when I see it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

NOW let’s flip the question, If a man signs up and poses nude for a women’s magazine is he being exploited even if he is paid well to do it?
Or are all men in general being exploited by his posing?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I don’t think she personally is being exploited. But she is guilty of continuing that message that says women are mostly about sex.

No one would look at that @SQUEEKY2!

hominid's avatar

@Dutchess_III: ” But she is guilty of continuing that message that says women are mostly about sex.”

Really?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

No one would look at what?
A nude magazine for women, what do you call (Playgirl?)
also are not the women posing in the swimsuit issue of Sports illustrated guilty of the same message, or even selling women’s clothes and posing somewhat provocatively ?

tinyfaery's avatar

Men look at playgirl. Sorry.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@tinyfaery Sure and women look at Playboy, but Playboy is classed as a man’s magazine , and Playgirl is classed a women’s magazine.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m pretty sure Playgirl’s biggest audience is gay men.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Dutchess_III and why would you say that^?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, let me double check my assumption.

Dutchess_III's avatar

From Wiki

The magazine is mainly marketed to heterosexual women. Despite this, in 2003, Playgirl’s then-editor-in-chief Michele Zipp admitted the magazine also attracted much gay readership. “It’s ‘Entertainment for Women’ because there’s no other magazine out there that caters to women in the way we do”, she said. But she went on adding: “We love our gay readers as well, and the gay readership [of the magazine] is about 30%.”[7]

Also, in 2003, Mark Graff, President of Trans Digital Media, the brand management firm for Playgirl TV, stated that 50% of Playgirl’s readership are gay men.[8]

In a February 2010 interview with the Associated Press, Playgirl spokesman Daniel Nardico stated that he considers the magazine appealing to both men and women, although the audience is predominantly male

zenvelo's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Because it has been a gay men’s magazine for over 30 years. Apparently, only 23% of the readership is female.

Dutchess_III's avatar

And the reason I think that is because men are significantly more interested in looking at women and other erotica than women are.

In fact, The last print issue was published in January/February 2009. They wouldn’t have quit printing it if they had a strong audience. They’re still online tho.

Play Boy is still going strong.

tinyfaery's avatar

So is Men’s Health. Sorry.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III “In fact, The last print issue was published in January/February 2009. They wouldn’t have quit printing it if they had a strong audience. They’re still online tho.”

Not necessarily. Many publications have ceased print editions in favor of a solely online presence. It’s not necessarily an indication of reader/viewership, but having print editions simply no longer makes sense for most publications.

In the case of something like Playgirl or other adult oriented publications online might be a stronger market for then than print ever was, since many people are reluctant to purchase such material in person or have it delivered through the mail.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok whatever on the Playgirl thing I don’t keep up with Magazines that have nude men, back to the question a few thought the women was being exploited by posing.
and I flipped the questions to guys posing nude, are these men being exploited as well as the women?

Dutchess_III's avatar

People don’t view naked men the same way they view naked women. Naked men don’t sell the way naked women to. I don’t think men would begin to look like nothing more than objects in our society.

Darth_Algar's avatar

That may be, but there is a market for it (and not just among gay men ether). I don’t think the cancellation of the print edition of a single publication can be used to gauge that market when the trend of media in general is favoring online rather than print.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So @Dutchess_III your saying NO the men were not being exploited by posing but the women were?
Am I reading that right??
And it’s societies fault, because we view women as sex objects ,and we don’t view men the same way?

Darth_Algar's avatar

To kinda reiterate and expand upon what I said before: I don’t think posing for nude/semi-nude or even, for that matter, doing porn is necessarily being exploited. Exploitation is on a case-to-case basis. To use the example of porn: Linda Lovelace, without question, was exploited. Asia Carrera, who’s entry into and career in that business was a series of shrewd, calculated moves designed by her to maximize her earnings (and who used those earnings to set up investment portfolios to earn even more), I would have a hard time considering as being exploited.

Every worker commoditizes themself in some way. Their muscle power, their brain, their skill, their tits, their time….whatever. In all cases they’re trading what they have in exchange for compensation of some kind (usually financial).

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Darth_Algar I totally agree.

Coloma's avatar

Objectification of women is not cool, but it happens and probably always will.
If one chooses to bare her stuff on the pages of a magazine it is voluntary. I guess you could say she is exploiting herself. haha
I wouldn’t want random men jerking off over my photo in the bathroom but hey, I’m sure most women have been the object of some guys masturbatory moment. lol

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Coloma – you wrote that “objectification of women is not cool”. But who decides what is objectification? If she, herself, voluntarily does it to empower herself or to make a salary, what business is it of anyone else’s?

Does the woman have an obligation NOT to pose on behalf of some amorphous definition of “defense of women”?

It’s really easy to toss around platitudes about sexism and objectification, because they’re all theoretical arguments. But real people do these things – don’t they have freedom of choice?

Should a model give up her career to make “all women” happy?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Nice answer @elbanditoroso I hope you get an answer, from any woman on that not just Coloma.

Coloma's avatar

@elbanditoroso It is nobodys biz. but I like to think we have come a long ways baby and so, IMO, women that exploit their own sexuality kinda throw a wrench into whatever, quasi progress we have made. Nothing wrong with enjoying your body and feeling good about your looks or being a model. Modeling is about fashion, not porn.
A beautiful model with sex appeal is hardly a porn star with a 20 inch, quadruple headed dildo up her a$$, pandering her bits for the sexual gratification of strange men.

I’d be proud if my daughter was a model but not a porn star.
I was quite the babe for a long time in my younger years and while I enjoyed looking nice and feeling good about my body I always wanted to be liked for my brains and humor and spice than for my T&A. If you have the whole package don;t sell yourself out.

Cruiser's avatar

@Coloma As they say beauty is only skin deep and fleeting. The beauty that is everlasting is what is in your heart and your answer speaks loudly that you are still most beautiful!

Coloma's avatar

@Cruiser Awww shucks!

Darth_Algar's avatar

If a woman choose to pursue these career paths because she truly wills to do so (for instance some women choose to do porn as an expression of their sexuality) isn’t that progress? Or does progress only consist of certain pre-approved career paths?

Coloma's avatar

@Darth_Algar Seriously? You think women porning/prostituting themselves is progress? Maybe devolution but hardly progress.Pffft!

Darth_Algar's avatar

So that’s a “yes” to question #2 then?

Coloma's avatar

There is no “progress” when one chooses a “career” path in exploitation. So the answer to # 2 is a solid and resounding no.
Drop the bone Darth, you don’t want to perpetuate the bad press of pit bulls now do you?

Darth_Algar's avatar

Question #2 was “Or does progress only consist of certain pre-approved career paths?”. Your first sentence and second sentence contradict each other.

Coloma's avatar

@Darth_Algar My mistake, then make that a yes in the case of the porn industry.
To pander oneself to male fantasy is not progress, it is the antithesis of womens empowerment over the last 45 -50years or so.

hominid's avatar

^ @Coloma – You do understand that from my liberal, socialist, feminist over-educated Massachusetts environment, you sound very conservative, right? I can’t imagine what would have happened if you had walked onto the UMASS Amherst campus in the early 90s. You’d be considered extremely anti-women.

There is a wide range of opinion that goes under the umbrella term “feminism”. The type you are describing lost favor in the 80s. Check out sex positive feminism and its critique of the position you are outlining here. There are people here that are speaking as though the only type of empowerment is the conservative movement.

hominid's avatar

And @Dutchess_III can come here and state, “But she is guilty of continuing that message that says women are mostly about sex.” without explaining what this could possibly mean.

I think I need to ask a separate question here that gets to the core of what is so puzzling about conservative thoughts on sex and women. I’ll try to formulate and ask the question later…

OpryLeigh's avatar

I’m a woman and I agree with @elbanditoroso and @BlackSwanEffect

Coloma's avatar

@hominid Well..if you want to call my sentiments conservative okay. I just call them healthy.
Very few women with a healthy self esteem would be okay with exploiting their sexuality.
I’m a 70’s girl, and enjoyed a very free sex life, but from an empowered position. Sexual freedom for women to embrace their sexuality, initiate sexual contact, and not be negatively labelled for a healthy libido is a good thing, exploiting ones sexuality is not. Not socially or psychologically IMO.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@coloma – I believe that you are a 70s girl who empowered herself. bravo.

I still don’t see how you have the right to tell another woman that her choices to be photographed nude (i.e. in your words, exploiting herself socially), is ANY of your business.

You also wrote “very few women….would be OK with exploiting their sexuality”. Fine, but shouldn’t the “very few women” have the choice to do what they choose without betraying “all women”?

Coloma's avatar

@elbanditoroso Sure, it is their choice, but I don’t agree that it fits into the model of empowered woman with good self esteem that wants to be admired for her mind and brains and not just her T&A, that’s all.

Coloma's avatar

@Darth_Algar Interesting article and yep, I’m one of the critics. I simply do not agree that women involved in sexually exploiting themselves is a positive thing.
I also agree with decriminalizing prostitution but I do not agree with it being a healthy and savory lifestyle choice. I think, regardless, of all yay and nay argument, if we ask ourselves if we would want our female children, mothers, sisters, wives to become prostitutes or porn stars 99.9% would say “Hell NO!”

Darth_Algar's avatar

What my sister does is her business, not mine.

Coloma's avatar

@Darth_Algar True, but if you support women hocking their body parts to pander to the never ending demand for male arousal, well…that’s your choice as well but not something I would want to see my sister, daughter or mother involved in.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Coloma

What I support is the woman’s freedom to choose her own path, even if that path doesn’t align with some folk’s idea of what women should do.

BlackSwanEffect's avatar

Funny how porn is exploitation of women, but not men. Surely if there is exploitation in the industry, it is equal for both sexes? They sign the same contracts, and make the same films. Why isn’t it exploitation of men also?

Coloma's avatar

@Darth_Algar I support choice as well but any truly healthy person would not encourage women or men to pander themselves in degrading ways to make a buck. People are so much more than their body parts.

@BlackSwanEffect Agreed, thanks for bringing that very valid point up. Men can be exploited or exploit themselves as well.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Coloma – I’m not encouraging women to do this.

But I am not discouraging it either.

If a woman (or man) chooses to show their “body parts” (as you so eloquently say it), then who am I to criticize their choice. It’s not mine (or yours) to do so,

Coloma's avatar

@elbanditoroso I agree, but…psychologically and spiritually speaking ( not religiously speaking ) it is, clearly, not ones highest choice of lifestyle, that’s all.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Coloma – by using the word “ones” you really mean “MY”, right?

Coloma's avatar

@elbanditoroso No, I mean, it is not anyones highest choice, psychologically or spiritually speaking, to degrade themselves by peddling their body parts. Disabled and deformed people should not degrade themselves by exploiting their disabilities in a freak show either. Not that hard to compute.
These are my sentiments I don;t need anyone to agree.

We are free to do what we want but, obviously some choices are better than others. That’s all I’m saying.
Would you rather your son or daughter get a degree in engineering or science or be a porn star?
Kinda a no brainer IMO.

” Hey Grandma, lets watch my latest porno flick , I’m really proud of my acting. I think I got Grandpas cock.” lol

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