Social Question

rockfan's avatar

What's your opinion on the "free the nipple" campaign?

Asked by rockfan (11981points) July 12th, 2015

I remain neutral, but I do think there is a double standard, especially if a male body builder has huge pecs and is shirtless at a public beach, but if a woman with a flat chest shows her breasts at the beach, it’s considered “indecent”. What are your thoughts?

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37 Answers

Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One's avatar

I don’t understand why it’s necessary to parade nipples around. It’s more alluring, enticing, and interesting to see how people have covered up. Leave something to the imagination for cryin out loud.

It’s one thing if you’re at the lake swimming.. it’s quite another if they’re walking down main street.

JLeslie's avatar

I haven’t heard of the campaign, but I am just fine with parts of the beach being topless. I don’t think anyone should be arrested if they are topless in the nontopless area, but just onnthe honor code I think most people will be happy to comply with the rules of that section of the beach. In South Beach it was likenthat when I lived there. Around 8th street was topless if you wanted to be topless, I think it was up around 12th or 14th most of the gay men congregated. Not that I would ever suggest sectioning off beach regarding gay, straight, race, etc, I’m just saying it kind of naturally happened without rules.

I think I would make topless legal at the beach period and then put up signs at certain areas that require tops for women. Just like men can be shirtless in public, but some stores quire shirts.

kritiper's avatar

I agree that there is a double-standard. It doesn’t mean that everybody uses a double-standard. Somebody will always squeal about something.

DoNotKnow's avatar

I haven’t followed this campaign, but I can imagine what it’s about. This seems like a pretty easy one:

Exposure of female nipples should be allowed any place male nipples are.

That seems like a good start. There isn’t much grey area here or complicated issues to discuss. There are additional issues related to human nudity overall (all humans), but that can be addressed later after we deal with the obvious problem.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One calls it “parading the nipples”. I think that says more about him than it does about society. (American society in particular).

In most other western countries, toplessness isn’t a big deal, especially on the beach. Australia, new Zealand, Greece, Italy, Germany, France – most educated countries accept (and even embrace) topless and nipples as adults. At a beach, it’s perfectly normal for women to be topless – it is somewhat unusual for chests to be covered. I have been to the East coast of Australia where (my guess) 75% of women were topless. It was normal.

* So the real question is – why are Americans so out of the mainstream? *

Like so many other things, blame religious pressure.

I am completely pro-choice on this matter. If a woman wants to go topless, it ought to be her choice. If she doesn’t, also her choice.

And then there is the old, tired argument about “what about the children?”. Fact is that the only reason kids are interested in boobs is because they are covered and considered “special” . if they were used to seeing them, they would no longer be special.

Yes, I’m in favor of the movement.

Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One's avatar

I think they should “be covered and be considered special”. Way more fun.

DoNotKnow's avatar

@Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One: “I think they should “be covered and be considered special”. Way more fun.”

Your desire to keep breasts rare and sexually appetizing isn’t a factor here.

Note: As someone who is surrounded by lots of breasts (my wife is a lactation consultant, breastfed all of our children way longer than any of you would be comfortable hearing about, and we’ve often had lots of boobs hanging out all over the place at our house as women feed their babies), I can assure you that it’s possible to still find breasts extremely arousing in the right context. In other words, don’t worry about over-exposure. You’ll still spend a considerable amount of your day obsessing about breasts and enjoying your sexy time with your partner.

Which brings up an important note about my statement above…

@DoNotKnow: “Exposure of female nipples should be allowed any place male nipples are.”

and should be allowed even places male nipples are not allowed – if the woman is breastfeeding.

Pachy's avatar

Wish someone had nipped it in the bud. A waste of time.

ragingloli's avatar

How about reverse psychology lawmaking?
Make male toplessness illegal.
Men might be quicker to realise their double standard once they are on the receiving end of the stick.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@ragingloli – good idea, but it will never happen. Men generally make the laws. They would never restrict their own rights.

Men are much more effective at reducing or limiting womens’ rights.

filmfann's avatar

I think the Free The Nipple campaign was started by men who want women to go topless.

not that it’s a bad idea…

Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One's avatar

@DoNotKnow Well let’s just leave it at me disagreeing with almost everything you just said. :)

josie's avatar

I am all for freedom and universal toplessness.

In fact why not make it mandatory on selected beaches or other such places

elbanditoroso's avatar

@josie – there I would disagree. I am against mandatory anything of this type. Mandatory YES or Mandatory NO.

Again, it’s the woman’s choice.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I’d never heard that a charge of indecent exposure was restricted to flat chested women. I think we’d all be better off if people got used to seeing such things, and we could take so much emphasis off hiding the equipment of both men and women. I’m not saying that showing all be mandatory, and the topless situation for women involves engineering issues, depending on the gal; but life would be so much easier if we could get over the societal stigma involved with simply being naked.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

The campaign’s intentions are worthy. Gender discrimination is still an issue in the US.

Why should a woman have to worry about being arrested for indecent exposure for going topless in an area where it is allowed by males?

Why should a female have to file a lawsuit for going topless on their own property? In Utah, Indiana, and Tennessee, it is illegal for a female to have an exposed chest at any time. As a resident of TN, this means that I can’t mow my lawn or sunbathe in the back yard (which is fenced in) topless without risk of arrest.

Darth_Algar's avatar

I’m all for woman having the liberty to go topless if they wish. It’s fucking stupid that we make such a big deal out of breasts. Yes, they can be sexual objects, but only in sexualized contexts. If you can’t differentiate between contexts then you’ve got some problems.

canidmajor's avatar

I’m 61 years old, chubby, stretch-marked, a bit marred and scarred here and there, and everything has moved south. By your reckoning, @Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One, can I be allowed to bare all as I doubt that anyone would find my old nips to be alluring? My thermostat works fine, I get hot in the sun and would prefer to strip down while doing yard work, too. Aside from the fact that people might be offended by the fact that they wouldn’t think that it was attractive of me to bare myself (and that topic comes up again and again on Fluther) I can’t really imagine the need for argument.

This should not be about sexuality, @Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One, I’m surprised you don’t get that.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

I’ve been on “topless beaches” most of my life, from Stinson, California in my youth (nude), to the freezing beaches on the Island of Silt, Germany and Kalmar, Sweden, to the warm beaches of the Aegean Sea, in the south of France and now the Caribbean. I’ve never seen anyone harmed or upset or traumatized, including children, by people removing clothing in public.

I’m also a big proponent of mothers nursing their children and if they want to do it in public, I certainly don’t think anyone should be able to stand in their way. What could be more healthy and natural?

Trust me, a hundred years ago men were turned on by the sight of a woman’s ankle, but today that seems ridiculous to us. It’s the same way with public nudity. You don’t even notice after awhile.

There are so many truly harmful things to worry about. This isn’t one of them, believe me.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Honestly, I imagine tits waaay better than they look in reality. Anyway, I have zero problem making it socially acceptable to let the puppies run wild. That said, most guys and gals should really keep the shirt on anyway.

DoNotKnow's avatar

@Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One: “Well let’s just leave it at me disagreeing with almost everything you just said. :)”

Really? Let me see what I said and we can make sure you disagree with all of it…

1. I said that your desire to keep female bodies clothed in order to heighten your sexual excitement was not a valid argument. If you disagree with this, maybe you could elaborate. There are cultures that force women to show far less skin (think Saudi Arabia). It would seem that your argument that your personal sexual desire cultivation takes precedent over equal rights should fit quite nicely into an argument for forced hiding of skin (and hijab, etc).

2. I also tried to ease your concerns – even if they don’t really matter – by presenting my experience (and other men in more progressive communities). I told you how I am surrounded by breasts (my wife’s and tons of other women) in the context of breastfeeding. And I’ve expressed how this doesn’t diminish my sexual obsession with breasts in a sexual context. In other words, I can view female breasts feeding babies all day and not consider it sexual in any way, yet still find breasts extremely sexual in other contexts. Do you disagree with my assessment here, as in you don’t believe me. Or are you saying that you know you would feel differently? If you saw more breasts throughout your day, would you suddenly stop finding breasts sexually appealing? If so, I think you may have more questions to ask yourself here.

3. Women should be able to feed their babies anywhere without being told to cover up or leave. Do you disagree with this as well? Should peoples’ puritan sensibilities or desire to keep women’s bodies from becoming less sexualized be considered at all when we are talking about feeding babies?

canidmajor's avatar

Thank you, @ARE_you_kidding_me, for nicely making my point.
Geez. Again with that.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me Why should most guys and gals keep their shirt on anyways?

Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One's avatar

@canidmajor
I doubt they’d be alluring at all (for anyone) if they were on every street corner. It’s not just about being alluring.. that’s just a part. You’d be surprised what I get which you assume I don’t.

@DoNotKnow
You’re equating what little I’ve said to some sort of Jihad. I don’t need to read the rest of what you typed based on that alone. Preposterous.

In everything, moderation… to include putting a bloody shirt on.

God forbid this oh-so-free naked freedom fun time spreads to restaurants. Do you want your pizza delivered by a sweaty, naked dude who just drove 5 miles sitting on leather seats? I mean.. where does it end? Why must it be considered so “absurdly conservative” and “non-liberal” to just put a shirt on? What victory has been won when everyone is fully desensitized? What’s the next campaign once everyone is freely naked? Acceptable demonstrations of sex in public? Bestiality? What’s it gonna be?

I know this is an argument I’ll never win (as more and more people push for causes that make them feel “open minded”).. but it makes it no less maddening.

Thank goodness for the “stop following” button.

DoNotKnow's avatar

@Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One: “You’re equating what little I’ve said to some sort of Jihad. I don’t need to read the rest of what you typed based on that alone. Preposterous.”

At least you admit you don’t have a rebuttal and feel offended. I apologize if I offended you and didn’t mean to. If you do come back, however, re-read my comments. You’ll find that you probably misread what I said.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One

It’s an argument you won’t win not because we’re more “open minded”, but because you make asinine leaps in logic (like the sweaty naked pizza guy example).

rojo's avatar

I would like to see American society loosen up a bit overall. Should be a personal choice, like whether to wear a bra or go without or whether to shave the underarms, legs or pubic area or leave them natural.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

I’m all for it. Adamantly. I will never remain neutral in the face of inequality. Those who say something like this isn’t a big enough deal to make a stink about are usually the people who are afforded more rights in the first place.

canidmajor's avatar

You’re right, @Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One, I would be surprised at what you get, because you only seem to express yourself, on this thread, on this topic, in ways that would indicate what you don’t get.

Your second post “I think they would ‘be covered and be considered special’. Way more fun” indicates that you are seeing this issue only as it pertains to your level of approval. The good news is that most of the rest of us here understand that it’s not about each of us alone.

Don’t like it? Don’t look at it.

canidmajor's avatar

should” be covered. Sorry.

JLeslie's avatar

@canidmajor Oh, I think he likes it. That’s the point. He used the word “fun” which I take to mean he does look at them as sexual objects for himself. For his sexual pleasure.

canidmajor's avatar

Maybe he can start a new trend:
“As she walked by me, I slowly dressed her with my eyes…”

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Pied_Pfeffer because we are mostly a fugly lot without clothes on.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me I’m going to assume that by using the word “fugly” that you mean fucking ugly and that the target is females. Is that the case, and if so, why do you believe it?

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Pied_Pfeffer No. Males are usually more fugly than females. This is no gender bias bullshit, don’t even attempt to go there.

JLeslie's avatar

I definitely prefer looking at the female form than male as an objective observer, and I am totally straight.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Personal preference is, by its nature, not objective. It’s impossible to objectively measure attractiveness because attractiveness is itself a purely subjective measurement.

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