Social Question

gorillapaws's avatar

What do you think of this video of an Israeli soldier and a young boy?

Asked by gorillapaws (26739points) August 31st, 2015

There’s a weekly protest in the village of Nabi Saleh in the West Bank. Israel has taken their land and confiscated the local spring to use for the Halamish settlement in violation of international law.

During the protest this week an 11-year-old Palestinian boy with a broken arm was throwing rocks at IDF soldiers. A soldier attempts to arrest the child and the father captures it on film. Here is the clip. The link starts at the point when the soldier seizes the child, but you can watch the full video for context.

What are your thoughts?

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14 Answers

DrasticDreamer's avatar

My thoughts are that it was completely unnecessary for a soldier with what appears to be some kind of semi-automatic weapon (I don’t know guns) try to arrest a young boy with a broken arm who was clearly defenseless and not a threat at all. I’m not even a parent and my instinct to protect the child was kicking into high gear.

I have strong opinions about Israel/Palestine in general.

LuckyGuy's avatar

I’d say the Palestinians got just what they wanted: publicity and worldwide attention.
Any reasonably, loving, caring parent would have their child (recovering from a broken arm no less) stay home or out of harm’s way especially during a protest that historically turns to violence.

Clearly the parents and protest organizers brought the kid down there and encouraged him to keep walking toward the IDF and keep throwing rocks. They knew something had to give.

Out of curiosity. and ignoring the politics for a moment, how close would you let a rock throwing 11 year old get to you before you responded? What would your response be?

LuckyGuy's avatar

I can’t help but wonder what would happen if all those protesters spent the same time and energy building a house or drilling a well. Our local Habitat for Humanity uses volunteers and donated material to put up a house in 6 weekends – a good, solid house that has to support snow loads of 60 pounds per square ft with R-30 insulation! Many of the volunteers are retirees! (2000–3000 man-hours)
Look at all the healthy guys throwing the tear gas canisters back at the IDF. All are healthy young bucks who could be spending their free time building shelters, or farming or preparing soil or helping others in their community.
How many man hours of productive opportunity cost did they waste that day? I’ll estimate 50 people total 8 hours with all the prep work, about 400 man-hrs They could build a 1400 ft home in 10 days – if they changed their mindset.
And videos of IDF taking it down might make for better protest fodder.

FireMadeFlesh's avatar

I think the IDF soldier involved should’ve arrested the parents instead. How dare they let their 11 year old boy participate in political violence. But it is all in the name of propaganda. The Palestinians are very effective at playing the victim, while electing terrorists and firing rockets into civilian areas from behind human shields. It’s uncanny how there’s always someone with a camera ready when the IDF responds to provocation.

LuckyGuy's avatar

A few years ago I was driving in the Negev desert from Eilat to Be’er Shiva in the summer. Saying it was hot is an understatement. There was miles of nothing, just barren wasteland. but periodically there would be isolated communities of lush orchards, organized rows of trees at various stages of growth, squat buildings under constructions and dust from piles of earth being moved around. All of this activity was surrounded by a chain link fence with wire. Invariably, outside the fence were a couple of tin roofed “shelters” with a couple of Arabs,(allow me to use the term as I do not know which group, type, nationality, etc I can only say they were not Israelis.), a goat or two, a pile of trash and a smoky fire that looked like smoldering car tires.
This was not an isolated case. It was common and highlighted to me what support and industrious people can do. No wonder the people outside the gate want what is inside. If they started today, they could have their own orchards in 20–40 years.

By the way can someone tell me WTF they are burning in the middle of the afternoon? From the stench and black smoke it sure isn’t a cooking fire. I don’t get it.

jaytkay's avatar

If they started today, they could have their own orchards in 20–40 years.

Yeah, about that…

On 19 May a Palestinian shepherd from the village of Nahalin was out at first light and saw the bulldozer at work in the field, guarded by Israeli soldiers. By the time Nassar arrived the whole orchard – the best part of a decade’s work – was gone. Link

Settlers destroy 58 trees in orchard near Bethlehem Link

Israeli Settlers Chop down more Palestinian Olive Trees (having destroyed 800,000 since 1967). Link

Jewish settlers in the West Bank are conducting a systematic and expanding campaign of violence against Palestinian farmers, families and children with the Israeli authorities turning a blind eye, according to confidential reports from senior European Union officials. Link

LuckyGuy's avatar

@jaytkay Thanks! The other view should be represented. I wonder how many trees are / were destroyed by Palestinians. Those Israeli communities have fences around them for a reason.

Also. Your links had comments like “Husan is located in the seam zone, a quasi-militarized zone within the West Bank but on the Israeli side of the separation wall.”

Palestinians need to plant on the other side and video Israelis tearing up their stuff. They need to show they are builders not destroyers. That would help make their case.
From my admittedly limited view all I saw were Israelis working hard and Palestinians standing around or burning crap in the desert.
I had another data point.: I was outfitted with a vehicle with Palestinian plates. Why? Because a vehicle with Israeli plates would be a target in certain areas. Whereas a vehicle with Palestinian plates would not.

If rockets are fired from an orchard is it a surprise to anyone that the orchard is bombed?
——
Unrelated but sort of relevant. This area Western NY has many fruit tree orchards. Smart, successful farmers tear up thousands of their older, less productive trees and replant with newer, more advanced root stocks every year, e.g., MM106 replaced by M9. This is staggered to optimize production and keep up with customer preferences. Orchards are also cut down for building lots. Since 1967 I’ll bet millions of local fruit trees have been destroyed – Obviously I am making up the number but I’ll bet it is correct within an order of magnitude.

ragingloli's avatar

In other news:
Right wing Extremists in Europe refuse acknowledge that the war refugees from Syria and other wartorn countries are refugees. Instead they call them “economic migrants”, accusing them of just coming here to exploit the welfare system. They do that, so they can more easily dehumanise them.

gorillapaws's avatar

@LuckyGuy “Out of curiosity. and ignoring the politics for a moment, how close would you let a rock throwing 11 year old get to you before you responded? What would your response be?”

If I had a riot shield like the IDF soldiers had, I’d probably ignore the kid.

@LuckyGuy ”...If they started today, they could have their own orchards in 20–40 years.”

Hard to do when Israel is waging economic warfare against you:
“As part of their overall embargo plan against Gaza, Israeli officials have confirmed to (U.S. embassy economic officers) on multiple occasions that they intend to keep the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse without quite pushing it over the edge,” a November 3, 2008 U.S. cable stated. Israel wanted to maintain Gaza “functioning at the lowest level possible consistent with avoiding a humanitarian crisis,” according to the cable.” source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contents_of_the_United_States_diplomatic_cables_leak_(Israel)#Gaza

While this was specifically referring to Gaza and not the West Bank, It’s not much of a leap to assume this also applied to the people of the West Bank, especially with the destruction of the orchards, as referenced by @jaytkay.

@LuckyGuy “If rockets are fired from an orchard is it a surprise to anyone that the orchard is bombed? ”
I’m pretty sure that the destruction of orchards @jaytkay was referencing wasn’t related to rocket fire. It’s about economic warfare. If you have a link showing otherwise, I’d be happy to take a look.

Furthermore if these “healthy young bucks ” did build stuff it will get demolished:
“In the West Bank, Israel has zoned only 1 percent of the area under its administrative control, called Area C, for Palestinian development. Israeli authorities approved fewer than 6 percent of the Palestinian building permit requests it received from 2000 to 2012. In contrast, Israeli authorities approved master plans for Jewish settlements covering 26 percent of the area.” source

@LuckyGuy “I wonder how many trees are / were destroyed by Palestinians. Those Israeli communities have fences around them for a reason.”

Israelis shouldn’t be planting orchards in the territory in the first place. It’s a violation of the 4th Geneva convention. It’s illegal to move your civilians into an occupied territory. This isn’t simply my opinion.
“The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.” source

Strauss's avatar

@ragingloli …refuse (to) acknowledge that the war refugees from Syria and other wartorn countries are refugees. Instead they call them “economic migrants” Sounds a lot like what happens with undocumented migrant workers from south of the US border…Only they’re called illegal aliens.

Cruiser's avatar

Reading that this protest over Nabi saleh is a weekly event, it is obvious from the video both sides are well rehearsed at how things will go down. They march up on the IDF singing and chanting…boys begin to throw rocks at the soldiers…..soldiers toss tear gas….they throw them back along with more rocks. Both sides converge…arrests are made and everyone goes home till next week. According the a couple stories I read the boy with the broken arm was involved in throwing rocks at the IDF Soldiers.

From what I read the provocation of the IDF soldiers was the end game of the protesters and according to quotes from the broken arm boys associates….

__The Red Crescent worker then showed the boy pictures he took of the incident. “Good job,” he told the child. He then got up to talk with other activists and journalists about getting to Ramallah and disseminating the photos and video. “We got them,” he said.“__

So we shall see how this weeks demonstration goes down. After realizing they were set up and regardless of that in how bad they now look in the eyes of the international community will the IDF step back from their thuggish behavior. And what about the protesters? Will a peaceful non-confrontational protest suffice for them or will they up their game to further provoke the IDF soldiers? At what point will this boil over and we have a Kent State style massacre to show for all this?

tinyfaery's avatar

Pathetic on all sides. No one is right. No one has a right to land. It belongs to the earth. Zionists are idiots.

JLeslie's avatar

I wasn’t able to load the video, but I assume the truth is somewhere in the middle. It is disgusting that parents send their children out to do “political” work. Just like young children crying, upset, afraid, in front of abortion clinics calling out “don’t kill the babies” while their parents hold signs up in a crowd. That child doesn’t even really understand what a fetus or an abortion is, yet his parents are willing to work him up into a state for their cause. Letting a child throw rocks to be able to catch the event on film is horrible. Maybe the Israeli soldier could have handled it better? But, could the kid be a reuse that might leave the soldier in harms way? More than just rocks? How long should he let the rocks be thrown? I didn’t see it. Did the soldier first ask the boy to stop? Would you let your son throw rocks at a soldier? It would be great if the Israeli soldier has been very nice and given the kid a Hershey bar, was that a possibility? You know, confuse the kid a little.

I believe that maybe some farms and orchards that have been attempted by Arabs were destroyed by Israelis, but I also believe the bad people and destructive mechanisms developed by Hamas are hidden among residential dwellings and probably in orchards. I truly believe most Israelis would prefer the Palestinians be prosperous and peaceful.

You get what you give, and it seems between the Israelis and the Palestinians in some situations it’s hard to know if it’s the chicken or the egg.

@Yetanotheruser I haven’t heard the term illegal alien in 20 years. I think we use illegal immigrants now.

DrasticDreamer's avatar

Regardless of whether or not the child should have been there, it doesn’t change the fact that a soldier with a gun was trying to arrest an 11-year-old. The parents might be despicable, but so was the soldier. It’s all disgusting. People are gross and I hate us.

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