General Question

elbanditoroso's avatar

What's next for the county clerk in Kentucky who is disobeying the Supreme Court?

Asked by elbanditoroso (33283points) September 1st, 2015

Here’s the news story link

This is the Rowan County clerk who has decided that her religious beliefs are stronger than the laws of the US, as affirmed by the Supreme Court.

Can her stance prevail? Can one woman (today) say FU to the constitution and the Supreme Court? How does one person in an County position have the right to ignore the law?

Will she go to jail?

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131 Answers

ibstubro's avatar

Impossible to answer without doing a lot of research on Kentucky law.

She needs to be removed from office by whatever means necessary. If there is a deputy clerk, sending her to jail might be the most expeditious way to getting the wheels turning again.

Surely one of the herd of Republican presidential contenders is vetting her as the next Sarah Palin.
Oh, shit. I just checked and she’s not ‘hot’. Trump’s out.

zenvelo's avatar

She has demonstrated contempt of the Federal Judicial System. So she may be fined or jailed on Federal Charges.

The local DA has turned the misconduct case over to the State because of conflict of interest, but even if convicted of misconduct, the legislature has to go through impeachment proceedings to remove her from office.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@zenvelo – interesting conundrum. I don’t see the legislature in a southern state like Kentucky having the spine to impeach her.

So much for the law abiding Conservatives…

filmfann's avatar

Short of hitting her on the head with a mallet, maybe explaining that her job requires her to do this. If she wants to make a stand, it should be to refuse to it by quitting her job.
Clearly, this is her job.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I fail to see the problem. The clerk should be transferred to another position or fired. Problem solved. It’s a noble thing to stand by your principles. But there are consequences to defying the state. At least her fate won’t involve snarling dogs and fire hoses. Those who sympathize with her are numerous, and with a little combined effort could easily assure that this woman need not work another day in her life. Better yet, some slick entrepreneur can set up a tour for her of the nation’s churches, where she can relate her courageous stand as tragic victim of gay persecution. She’ll rake in a fortune. I should be so lucky!

zenvelo's avatar

@stanleybmanly She can’t be “transferred” or “fired”; she was elected.

ibstubro's avatar

She likely has the backing of the community, to make matters worse. So the locals (regardless of how they feel about gay marriage) will – somewhat rightly – scream “big brother” about any attempts to remove her.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@zenvelo then she has no defense. CLEARLY no elected official is allowed to defy the 14th amendment. That issue is ironclad. Her hot ass should be thrown in jail and some hotshot attorney can explain to a Federal judge how her behavior is not “denial of due process”’.

josie's avatar

Probably what happened to Lincoln when he suspended Habeus corpus and the court ordered him to reinstate, and he refused. Nothing. (Actually, come to think of it, he got murdered.)

There is an ongoing debate in law as to whether the Supreme Court’s decisions actually apply to everybody, or only to the specific case before the court. As conceived, the SC was merely the final court of appeal. Judicial Review was not an original role of the court. If the Federal marshalls come and arrest the Judge, that will probably be the defense in court, and then it will go all the way to the Supreme Court etc.

JeSuisRickSpringfield's avatar

@josie But if it goes all the way to the Supreme Court, then the fix is in, isn’t it? Somehow I don’t see them upholding her refusal to obey them.

jca's avatar

According to the article, impreachment is unlikely. Impreachment would have to come from the State legislature, according to article.

cletrans2col's avatar

She’ll probably get support from conservative groups, along with 15 minutes of fame from it.

I’m fairly sympathetic to her views on marriage, but she should do what I did when SCOTUS announced their decision: deal with it. It’s a done deal. Breaking the law is not a good look for her, especially when she starts looking for a new job.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Why would you be “fairly sympathetic to her views”? What business is it of hers, or yours, or mine, who marries whom?

cletrans2col's avatar

@Dutchess_III it’s becomes my business when every news outlet covers gay news and one cannot just hide from it. I think that gay marriage isn’t natural and just plain weird. But the Court says it isn’t so you deal with it.

jca's avatar

Regardless of the clerk’s personal views, she has a job to do and her personal views should not interfere with that.

kritiper's avatar

Severe reprimand, transferal to another department, or fired for not serving the public’s need as described in the job description.

jca's avatar

@kritiper: She cannot be transferred or fired. She was elected.

kritiper's avatar

@jca OK, point taken. Jailed for contempt of court.

tinyfaery's avatar

Censure. Deputy can take over. If that doesn’t work, HUGE fine. HUGE. The message needs to be sent.

DominicY's avatar

Well, what happened to county clerks who refused to marry interracial couples during the civil rights era? People who have jobs like this don’t get to pick and choose what laws to follow. But of course now she’s becoming a martyr for the Christian Right.

msh's avatar

She needs to go take her tea bag and go jump off the courthouse roof for her religious self-martyr’s actions. Refusal to follow the law expedites immediate action as to her not fullfilling her sworn duty. But perhaps the rebel flag carrying bed-sheet wearers are protecting her…
If you can’t cope with your duties because of your beliefs, LEAVE. Quit trying to control others by using religion as a basis. Shame on her!

ibstubro's avatar

I just heard on NPR news (9–1) that her attorney is asking for fine rather than jail time. Yeah, right. So the tea baggers can start a fund to keep the fine paid and her in office not issuing marriage certificates.

jerv's avatar

A conviction for contempt of court is sufficient grounds to get her tossed regardless of what voters want.

She’s also going to make millions of dollars from her TV appearances and book deal detailing how she is a martyr and Christians are being persecuted by the gay Muslim Socialists.

jca's avatar

I saw someone wrote something interesting about “would the people who are supporting her in not issuing marriage licenses to gays because of her personal beliefs feel the same way if she decided not to issue pistol permits because she was against gun violence.” Interesting point.

ibstubro's avatar

@jerv
I love you, man.
Okay, the 30,000 mystique hasn’t worn off.
There is little appeal there. Add geography.

JLeslie's avatar

This is ridiculous. Of course, it isn’t unheard of for the south to refuse to act within federal law.

Law trumps religion.

jca's avatar

She looks crazy. I saw a comparison on Facebook, comparing her to Dolores Clayborne (Stephen King movie). Around here, she would never get elected with hair and clothes like she has. Long, raggy witch hair, Christian fundamentalist type clothing.

rojo's avatar

Hopefully she will soon be but a historical sidenote. I would prefer she go quietly into the sunset but do not get the impression that is her style as a couple of quotes from The Christian Post indicate: “The Apostolic Christian, on the other hand, has vowed not to resign or to relent, even under the pressure of being put behind bars”. and “Casey Davis, a fellow county clerk, stood by Davis’ decision, noting that many people sacrificed their lives for religious rights and he believes Christians should be able to exercise those rights”.

She has the strength of her convictions and for that I commend her but when her convictions interfere with her ability to perform her job then it is time to step aside.

JeSuisRickSpringfield's avatar

@JLeslie Northerners have been known to rebel from time to time, too, you know.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The whole thing is rather sad. It provides believers proof positive that the rest of us are out to toss them as well as Jesus into the bin of irrelevance. As is so often the case, local sympathies are with her (which is why she has the job in the first place.) But she’s gotta go, and WILL!

Dutchess_III's avatar

This is one of those ridiculous situations where the Christian is going to twist everything around so that she is the one being ‘persecuted.’ Her “freedom of religion” is being trampled upon.
How anyone can be so blind is beyond me.

rojo's avatar

Sounds like she will have her day in court tomorrow.

JLeslie's avatar

@JeSuisRickSpeingfield Certainly, northerns have had their share. Although, I will say having lived in the north and south for the last 40 years I ran into more southerners who want a lot more power in the states, who think freedom of religion trumps man made laws (unless we are talking about Sharia religious rules) and I feel more proposals are put up to gnaw away and get around Supreme Court decisions in the Bible Belt, which is not exclusively the south of course.

rojo's avatar

I heard Bryan Fischer with AFR going on about how what she is doing is the Lords work and everyone else, including the SCOTUS are wrong on this.

Really, the only thing of note that he said, and not in a good way, was his reference to same-sex marriages as “Sodomy Based Relationships”.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@rojo Okay a homophobic leader of a bible slapping group is backing her.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

She is a government servant who refuses to do her job based on her personal beliefs. This should never be tolerated. I’m baffled that there is even a discussion about this at all, much less a national one.

Just think if nurses and doctors behaved this way. We treat the disease not the patient. If Adolph Hitler walked into an emergency room, he is to get the same level of care as everyone else. Let the legal people handle the rest. It is the same with the clerk. She is there to provide a service without personal prejudice.

ibstubro's avatar

At least she speaks from experience, being on her fourth marriage (in case you’re not one to open links) so sacred things can last, oh, say under 24 months.

So, natural progression, if you’re a straight male attending your Apostolic convention in Nevada (of course not in Las Vegas, but, eh, the proximity) and you become enamored of a young “lady” and marry her on a lark, it’s forgivable to divorce her the next day if you’re contrite.

I say find her in contempt, then subject her to the extended gauntlet they gave the Boston Marathon Bomber before sentencing.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Ha ha! She went to jail! I like this quote from an article I read: “Remember: This has nothing to do with her faith. Davis is not being punished for her Christian beliefs. She’s being punished for being a government official who refuses to do the job she signed up to do.”

elbanditoroso's avatar

Does her salary continue to be paid while she is in jail?

jca's avatar

@elbanditoroso: That’s a good question. I would guess yes or she can charge it to vacation time maybe.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I would think it probably is, until she quits. That’s really her only option now.

jca's avatar

And then the thing is, because she’s elected, is there a Deputy County Clerk who can take over or would there have to be a new election? That costs the taxpayers money. The whole thing is a cluster.

stanleybmanly's avatar

I would think the state must get rid of her and quickly, or face the possibility of forking over sackloads of money in damages to all of the people making the claim that they’ve been denied a life of married bliss.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, it’s not like it won’t all be fixed real soon, @stanleybmanly. They’ll get married OK. But yeah. The state needs to show that they don’t condone this.

I wonder who’s taking her place while she’s in jail?

jca's avatar

I was just reading one of the articles and they quote someone outside who says “They’re trampling on religious liberty.” It’s so crazy. Religious liberty has nothing to do with anything, especially when it comes to the government.

Dutchess_III's avatar

See, especially in America Christians really don’t have much to bitch about. However, being persecuted is such an integral part of the Christianity that they just don’t feel right unless they’re being “persecuted.” So they have to make crazy shit up.

Buttonstc's avatar

This woman is getting crazier by the minute. According to ABC news, after the judge passed sentence, he offered her a compromise solution (which he didn’t have to do.)

Apparently there are several Deputy County Clerks under her ( 5–6 I believe) and they all agreed to issue the licenses. All she had to agree to was to not interfere with them doing so.

And, she said she couldn’t guarantee to make that commitment.

This is taking ridiculous to epic proportions.

She had the opportunity to have someone else do the job for which she is responsible and just sit back. (and save face in the process.)

And SHE TURNED IT DOWN.

TALK ABOUT STUPID AND STUBBORN….YEESH.

She is singlehandedly destroying the reputation of every reasonable and progressive Christian around. And there are plenty who wholeheartedly disagree with her stance.

cletrans2col's avatar

@stanleybmanly In Kentucky, the only way she could be removed is by the Legislature.

jerv's avatar

@Buttonstc That’s what the 21st century is all about so far though; taking ridiculous to epic proportions. Who is the GOP front-runner by a wide margin? When you think about that for a moment, you an see a consistent theme.

Even more consistent is that the group that seems to be causing the most unrest and disturbance is the same group that has done so for centuries; conservative hardliners with delusions of entitlement but enough charisma to get ordinary folks to disregard reality and history in favor of fanatical extremist dogma.

You are entirely correct that she has single-handedly done more to damage Christianity in the last few days than Paganism and homosexuality combined have done in the last two millennia.

However, there is a pretty vocal minority that will agree with her even if for non-religious reasons. For instance, many Tea Partiers and Libertarians will see this as “proof” that government is amoral and too powerful and therefore must be abolished in favor of the benevolent dictatorship of pure Capitalism.

@cletrans2col She could resign though. If she is no longer a County Clerk then she is not derelict in her duties and therefore no longer in contempt for failure to perform the duties that she would no longer have and thus be free both from jail and from any obligation to violate her moral code.
While that option may be unappealing, it is an option, and since so many Conservatives think that poverty is a choice, it’s as valid an option as they present to those outside The Oligarchy. Of course, they won’t admit to that hypocrisy and would rather see Davis as a political martyr in addition to a religious one…

Buttonstc's avatar

And the legislature isn’t scheduled to meet until January so she could be sitting in jail for quite a while if she doesn’t come to her senses.

JLeslie's avatar

Jail seems extreme.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@cletrans2col. Yes and the Federal judge did The state and its legislature a huge favor in locking her up. Otherwise I would recommend every unemployed single man & woman I could find to rush to Kentucky in order to allow this woman to refuse them a marriage permit.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@JLeslie jail saved the state of Kentucky and its fool legislature MILLIONS.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I think we have just observed the first member of the American Taliban identify herself.

jerv's avatar

@JLeslie Given that she earns $80k/yr and also has enough supporters that she could probably raise a few million dollars so that she didn’t even have to pay a penny out of her own pocket, fines would be inappropriate in this case.

As the only sentences that can be given for contempt are fines and jail time, and fines would not serve as any sort of deterrent or punishment nor make the accused feel remorse, the judge had no choice; it was either jail time or allow her to disobey the law in a disrespectful and unrepentant manner.

Now, if you are of the position that allowing for those found in contempt can be jailed at all in the first place is a bit extreme, it should be noted that “Contempt of Court” covers a wide ground. Telling the judge to go fuck themselves is contempt of a degree where a mere fine is enough. And while dropping your pants and leaving a brown trout on the floor of the courtroom would be covered by other laws (public indecency for one), the solemn authority of our legal system is enough to warrant that judges at least have the power to confine a person for some reason while more formal charges are processed.

In other words, judges are given the power to jail people for contempt because Legislature felt that there were (or may arise) situations that may warrant the need for that power even if they couldn’t foresee what those circumstances were well enough to explicitly codify what situations would warrant exercising it. For instance, I don’t think our forefathers envisioned anyone showing up to court wearing an American flag as a diaper, so I feel that allowing that sort of latitude was a good piece of foresight.

stanleybmanly's avatar

There’s no point in equating this poor misguided woman with the Taliban or anything else of a serious nature. This poor soul’s threat to the Constitution or the separation of church and state has been laughable from the outset. It will go down as just another stunt from the goobers in flyover country. The failure of the elected officials in Kentucky to deal quickly with this matter however should ( if there’s any justice) prove an expensive mistake, and you can bet that there are lawyers licking their chops! It’s an object lesson worthy of deliverance.

jca's avatar

@Buttonstc: just because the Kentucky state legislature isn’t scheduled to meet until January doesn’t mean that they can’t schedule an emergency session sooner.

Buttonstc's avatar

That’s true, but why should they? They would, in essence, be remedying a situation (by firing her) which she has the power to remedy herself.

If she doesn’t want to do the job then she can simply resign. But she knows that, being an elected position, that’s not so easy.

I mean, they couldn’t just allow her to continue indefinitely inconveniencing the citizens (ALL citizens, not just gay ones) by refusing to issue ANY marriage licenses. That’s ridiculous.

If she doesn’t like the new requirements of her job since the SCOTUS decision, then in good conscience she should resign rather than throwing a monkey wrench into the whole marriage license system.

She brought this upon herself so she can now deal with the consequences. The legislature is under no obligation to help her out of a situation of her own making (AND rejecting a workable compromise offered by the judge.)

The license issuing problem has been solved since her deputies volunteered to fulfill the duties which she refused so the citizens are no lobget inconvenienced. There really is no rush.

She rejected a compromise so she obviously wanted jail time to make her point. So let her enjoy it. Or be sensible and resign before the legislature forces the issue in January. It’s her choice and she has made it.

jca's avatar

Maybe she gets paid while she’s in jail. In that case, it would make sense for the Legislature to convene before January.

Regardless, you and I are both just speculating. I’m sure there’s a protocol for this in the state of Kentucky, since it is government and there are protocols and procedures for everything.

Buttonstc's avatar

Yeah, you’re right. Until anything further is reported, the rest is speculation. But somehow it just doesn’t seem right that she should still be getting paid for NOT doing her job.

jca's avatar

@Buttonstc: I agree. Many times, when we hear on the news about cops or whatever public servant getting suspended for some reason, it’s often with pay.

jerv's avatar

@jca Yes, but there is a difference between suspending somebody with pay while an investigation goes on and having them imprisoned for actual conviction of criminal wrongdoing. The whole “Innocent until proven guilty” thing usually disappears once a guilty verdict is handed down, especially one that leads to being behind bars.

At this juncture, the possibilities are;

1) Davis will remain incarcerated and become a symbol of how Christians are persecuted
2) Davis will be impeached and play the Martyr card
3) Davis will resign and play the Martyr card

Note that two of those options would also mean that, as she would no longer be County Clerk, orders for the County Clerk to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples would no longer apply to her, thus she would no longer be in violation of court orders, leading to her being freed as she would no longer be committing the offense for which she is being jailed. Those two options allow her to keep her morality intact and stand by her convictions with at least some degree of dignity, and the third option does so in a manner that shows that her beliefs are more important than her employment, which would give her some credibility even in my skeptical/ Agnostic eyes

At this point, her best bet is to resign anyways. See, she’s got enough publicity that she could probably rake in some good money from “appearance fees” on the talk show circuit and possible book deal, and would probably get a bit of “charity” from her supporters as well, so she’d be far better off financially than she would be in the unlikely instance that she remained a County Clerk. In addition, she would have far wider exposure than she does from her cell right now, so if there is any sort of message she wants to send about morality or rightness, she’d be better off with an audience of millions than just ranting to the guard of Cell Block D.

Buttonstc's avatar

“just ranting to the guard of Cell Block D”

The mental image of that has me laughing out loud. I guess at this hour of the night, I’m easily amused :)

jca's avatar

As for why should the Kentucky State Legislature meet before January, it’s to rectify this situation which has tied up local government (Rowan County Clerk duties) in a bad way. The legislature is beholden to the taxpayer, so to look the other way in order to “teach the clerk a lesson” is not to the taxpayers’ advantage.

elbanditoroso's avatar

My guess is that the Legislature has no interest in being drawn into this. Members can’t win. If they impeach the county clerk (and follow the law), they’re going to get all sorts of shit from their constituents about helping persecute the Clerk. If they support her, they’ll end up in court defending something that is indefensible.

So there’s no upside for the legislature on this.

Don’t minimize how much of a threat this woman is to America. She has essentially said that the legal system and the constitution do not apply to religious people.

Brian1946's avatar

According to what I think I just heard on KABC news, Rowan County just issued the first marriage license from its office to a same-sex couple.

I’d love to drop by Davis’s cell to give her and her cell mate a license with their names on it. ;-)

Brian1946's avatar

”...Rowan County just issued the first marriage license from its office to a same-sex couple.”

Corroboration.

Congrats to William Smith Jr. and James “Jim” Yates!

ibstubro's avatar

Maybe Davis can sign on to a reality TV deal now that she has the name recognition.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@ibstubro Maybe she already has with Fox News. Look how much slanted coverage she’s received already.

zenvelo's avatar

Too bad there isn’t an applicable law in this case against profiting from your crime.

In California, you kill or kidnap somebody and then write a book about it or get appearance fees, the money goes to the victims. Maybe all of Davis’ profits should fund wedding cakes for all same sex couples in Rowan County.

kritiper's avatar

I think she is going to have A LOT of time to think about it!

zenvelo's avatar

Kim Davis should be very happy now. She is the martyr she wanted to be.

rojo's avatar

Martyrs don’t usually hold the key to their own prison cell.

rojo's avatar

Did you sign the petition asking that she be forced to abide by all of the biblical laws not just the ones she chooses and present herself for stoning for adultery?

stanleybmanly's avatar

@elbanditoroso I disagree on the threat this woman poses to the government or anything else. She has no viable support from anyone who matters, and even the most rabid of biblical devotees have the uncommon sense to understand that her cause is all but hopeless. The country may be dumbing down, but we aren’t collectively quite that dumb yet.

zenvelo's avatar

@stanleybmanly All but two of those hoping to be the Republican candidate for President have expressed support for Ms Davis. I would call that viable support from some who matter. Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee is going to visit her in jail!

jerv's avatar

@stanleybmanly If you were correct, then how is it that Cruz, Santorum, Huckabee, and many other such people have got into office?

Collectively, we have enough of that type of dumb to make elections actual contests between intelligence and derpitude; close enough that Trump actually does have a chance at the Oval Office.

Put another way, look at what happened with McCain in 2008. McCain had the support of traditional Conservatives and many swing voters (myself included) as well as some moderate left-leaners. Thing is, all those groups together were not enough to secure a sure victory as he lacked support from the GOP base. How did he get support from the base? Sarah Palin. Of course, that move lost him much of the support he had from Moderates, but it also illustrates that the dumb have a large enough voting bloc that they heavily influence politics.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@stanleybmanly – I would like you to be correct. However, I see this episode as the first of many, far worse skirmishes to come.

jca's avatar

I just read online that there’s a judge in Marion County, Oregon who is refusing to marry same sex couples, despite the Supreme Court ruling.

jerv's avatar

@jca Yes, and as I pointed out in another thread, there are some key differences that I will reiterate here for convenience. The most notable difference is that he is not obstructing couples from going to one of the other judges in the same building to get married whereas Davis prohibited the other clerks in her office from providing services either.

Additionally, according to county law, he is not requires to perform any marriages in the first place; he has the authority but not the duty. To be safe, he hasn’t performed opposite-sex marriages recently either, but he is both able and willing to perform the duties that are actually required of him. In other words, he is still doing his job but merely refusing to do “extra credit” work.

Of course, it has sparked an ethics review to ensure that his belief system has not affected his impartiality in other matters, but if the judge who put Davis behind bars was able to set aside his personal faith to perform his duties, I am willing to give that Oregon judge the benefit of a doubt and say it’s possible to have strongly held beliefs and still conduct yourself as a professional. Whether he has or not, well, I’ll leave that to the professionals that are currently reviewing the matter more closely to determine.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, she’s out of jail.

Huckabee, the Moron said, ”“If somebody has to go to jail, I’m willing to go in her place. I believe that,” said Huckabee, a former Baptist minister and Arkansas governor. He added: “She has shown more courage than any politician I know. She not only said something, she was willing to put her life at risk.”” How did she put her LIFE at risk? OK, jail foods sucks, and she might have had to go to the crapper in front of everyone, but other than that, how was her life at risk?

The judge let her go because her deputies were issuing the licenses. He warned her not to interfere again. I hope she does…..

Buttonstc's avatar

And that sounds like the exact same compromise the judge initially offered her.

But she said that she couldn’t guarantee that she wouldn’t interfere. So, basically back at square one.

It’ll be interesting to see how long she won’t interfere.

But, maybe now that she has milked this for all the publicity she could get, she will quit while she’s ahead.

Time will tell.

jerv's avatar

@Buttonstc We can hope, but I don’t see it ending just yet.

The $80k/yr salary as County Clerk is far less than she could get doing the anti-LGBT talk circuit, so if she were willing to resign and travel, she could further her cause more effectively and make a lot more money while doing so. Of course, she’d have to cash in pretty quick before we move on the next big story, but whether she goes that route or not, I suspect that it’s actually far from over.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@jerv – I don’t see her becoming the poster girl for anything. From what clips I have seen on TV, she’s not particularly articulate. She’s not sympathetic downtrodden victim that the R party would like to see.

I think her 15 minutes are just about up.

jerv's avatar

@elbanditoroso Being inarticulate doesn’t seem to be a detriment amongst certain demographics. And while you and I may not think that she is sympathetic and/or downtrodden, there are a large enough number of people who disagree to actually have people like her in office and keep one major TV network afloat.

I hope you are right and I am wrong though.

jca's avatar

Bill Maher posted today that she actually makes 88k and the average person in her county makes 13k.

Amazing. 88k is not a whole lot more than I make. The County Clerk here makes almost double that (he makes about 140 -150k).

msh's avatar

Thank Heavens that God has nothing else to do but protect and serve this saintly woman.
Well, that, and bendy-twisty laws to dubiously be interpret so that a woman who refused to follow the laws she took an oath of office to uphold, can go home to sleep in her saintly bed. No more bars nor contact with the common riff-raff jail birds for her!
Seriously.
Wow.
And the angels wept.

jca's avatar

She looks like a freak. I look at her and think that she’s a candidate for a makeover. Meeting with a colorist and then a good hair cut, make up, new clothes, she’d look like a different woman. A professional woman. Right now she looks like a religious fundamentalist with her apron dress and long witchy hair.

jerv's avatar

@jca Look at the cost of living there though. If it’s even possible to go halves on rent at $13k/yr, you know that you’re somewhere where $80k/yr is big money!

Buttonstc's avatar

@jca

The reason she looks that way is because that is precisely what she is ; a religious fundamentalist Pentecostal in a church with very oppressive standards for what women are allowed to look like.

jca's avatar

@jerv: I get it. I understand that is big money in that area.

Dutchess_III's avatar

She just looks hard and mean to me.

rojo's avatar

^^ I guess you get that way after having to battle heathen devil-worshippers who don’t want their souls saved day in and day out.

JLeslie's avatar

On Morning Joe today Joe and Mika asked Huckabee, who is vehemently defending the clerk, what if the clerk refused to marry a couple where one or both in the couple had been married before. That the bible goes on and in about divorce and marrying a second time. That according to what Huckabee is saying county clerks could refuse to give a marriage license for that reason. He said one has nothing to do with the other, because according to the law people can marry a second time, and the clerk would have to abide by the law. Huckabee refused to see the analogy. Mika practically rolled her eyes. Both Mike and Jow were frustrated. Huckabee harped on only one branch of government, the judicial branch, is saying gay marriage is ok. I’m not sure why Mika and Joe missed the opportunity to say at least two branches are in favor of it, because the President agrees with gay marriage.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Wow….He refused to see the analogy. Yes, we really want an arrogant, obtuse dude like that for president.

JLeslie's avatar

Refused. It was incredible.

Dutchess_III's avatar

He’s one of those politicians who thinks the rest of us are just stupid and we wouldn’t notice what he was doing.

JLeslie's avatar

I think he is one of those Christians who actually sees the world as he stated. He can’t see the logic when his religion gets in the way. I don’t think most Christians are like that, but a hefty minority are.

cletrans2col's avatar

After seeing Cruz and Huckabee fully embrace this lawbreaker, I am 100% convinced those two should be no where near the presidency.

jerv's avatar

Remember, people like Senator Cruz and former Governor Huckabee would never have held office if there weren’t a depressingly large number of people just as obtuse.

@Dutchess_III Why not? He managed two terms as governor, so I guess he’s used to people being stupid and not noticing.

@JLeslie Hefty enough to run a few states and have some of their number in office at the federal level.

jerv's avatar

You know it’s a bad situation when Fox News calls her out. Of course, she also opened herself up for more criminal charges, and I’m not sure if violating conditions of release is something that will go unpunished regardless.

JLeslie's avatar

@jerv I know. Although, at the state level some of this type of garbage might not have come up back when he was governor. I kind of liked Huckabee when I first became aware of him years ago, but then the religious stuff became apparent and he fell out of favor with me for any type of government office.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Has she violated the conditions of her release?

I’m so tired, already, of the new mantra, that “marriage was central to Jesus’ teachings.” I thought love was central to Jesus’ teachings.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@Dutchess_III – why would I, as a non christian, give a flip about Jesus’ teachings?

Suppose Jesus said “walk everywhere, do not ride in a cart”. Would a county clerk then have the authority to decide not to sell license plates?

rojo's avatar

Not yet, but she isn’t going back to work until Monday.

One of her deputy clerks, Brian Mason, says he will continue to issue licenses even if she tells him not to.

I assume that as long as the licenses are issued out of the office she will be ok. Now the only question is whether or not she will try to continue on her search for fame and martyrdom.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What on earth are you talking about @elbanditoroso?

I hope she does, @rojo. I hope she quits her job in search of fame and riches and all that stuff Christian’s aren’t supposed to want, because she’ll be forgotten in 3 months. I wonder if she’ll even be able to get a job after that.

jca's avatar

Christians aren’t supposed to want fame and riches?

Dutchess_III's avatar

They aren’t supposed to want anything that exalts themselves, only that which exalts God.

jca's avatar

@Dutchess_III: I never heard that. Is that in writing somewhere?

rojo's avatar

She will probably be able to keep her job and/or get a new one. I understand she has quite a lot of local support.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@jca what is up with you lately? I’m just telling you the things my pastor, and other Christian speakers and leaders, told us. “It’s easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven,” and stuff like that. I guess that was their perception of it.

zenvelo's avatar

@jca it is the evangelical guidebook (which most people call the Bible, but evangelicals get to choose which parts to obey):

Matthew 23–10“Do not be called leaders; for One is your Leader, that is, Christ. 11“But the greatest among you shall be your servant. 12“Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.…

And:

Proverbs 29:23
Pride brings a person low, but the lowly in spirit gain honor.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yeah, and stuff like that @zenvelo.

jca's avatar

@Dutchess_III and @zenvelo: Just asking. Nothing’s “up” with me lately. Just curious because there are many Christians, everyone from celebs to politicians to Wall Streeters to Joel Osteen types to you name it, who are both famous and rich. Just wondering if that fact that they’re either rich and/or famous means they’re breaking some Christian code.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Depends on what which Bible verses they want to believe. Some verses suggest that being poor is a sign that God is unhappy with you, and being rich means you’ve done something right in God’s eyes.
Others say the opposite.

jerv's avatar

@jca And there are some Atheists and Agnostics among the ranks of the rich and famous as well.

As you may have guessed, Christians are pretty variable in their beliefs; arguably moreso than us non-believers.

jca's avatar

@jerv: It wasn’t me that said it. It was @Dutchess_III.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Interesting thought, @jerv. Do you think non-believers have fewer disagreements about what is right and wrong than Christians do? I’m going to ask this as a Q, since it’s is officially off topic now!

jerv's avatar

@jca I was replying to “Just curious because there are many Christians, everyone from celebs to politicians to Wall Streeters to Joel Osteen types to you name it, who are both famous and rich.”. Granted, I’m a little tired (I didn’t sleep at all last night), but it did (and still does) look like your name next to the post that that sentence came from. If that’s a hallucination, then mea culpa.

@Dutchess_III Given the wide disparity of opinions within the Christian faith, I must wonder if it’s even possible to have more disagreements than they do. From what I’ve seen, they cover so much of the spectrum that they expanded the boundaries. When you have the limits so far away from center in every direction, I think that that question is like asking, “What is larger than infinity?”, and I’ll need a good, long nap before I am ready to tackle that sort of metaphysics.

ibstubro's avatar

@jca, you might want to look at this.

It’s nothing to me, but came up when I searched about “Christians aren’t supposed to want fame and riches?” on Google.

Not what I was looking for, but seemed appropriate?

jca's avatar

The rantings of some lunatics! LOL.

rojo's avatar

@ibstubro Sounds like if you believe you are f*cked if you do and f*cked if you don’t.

ibstubro's avatar

Really, @rojo?
Looked more like an exercise in having your cake and eating it too, to me.

“The vow of poverty is not what Jesus is asking for”, but,
“Jesus says some pretty crazy stuff”.

rojo's avatar

I guess it depends on whether or not you believe you are being persecuted.

jca's avatar

@rojo: Don’t taze me, bro! Don’t taze me!

rojo's avatar

@jca “Stop fighting! Stop struggling!”

Dutchess_III's avatar

“Stop the violence!”

Dutchess_III's avatar

Great, great, great answer @Brian1946.

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