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DoNotKnowMuch's avatar

Did Clinton violate the law in supporting Honduran coup?

Asked by DoNotKnowMuch (2974points) June 17th, 2016

According to U.S. law

“restricts assistance to the government of any country whose duly elected head of government is deposed by military coup or decree”

But the U.S. never suspended aid to Honduras during 2009 coup. Clinton admitted her role in supporting this coup, despite the overwhelming international condemnation (including the United Nations). But Clinton removed this section from her paperback version of her book.

The post-coup violence has resulted in the murder of thousands of human rights activists, journalists, etc, including Berta Cáceres, who singled out Clinton before her murder.

While likely a violation of international law, did Clinton violate U.S. law here?

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19 Answers

stanleybmanly's avatar

The United States has been in the business of suppressing and overturning democratic governments EVERYWHERE for better than 150 years. Guatemala, Honduras, in fact the bulk of Latin America has been a feifdom of American business interests for most of their existence, and those interests have been brutally enforced by the government of the United States. There is no better illustration of what America is really about than the record of U S policies in Central and South America. You will also notice that this little tidbit was absent from any “front page” coverage on the part of our own McNews services.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The American public has no idea that the flood of desperate people assaulting our Southern borders result from the heinous policies of the American government at the behest of corporate business interests.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Two points.

1) what happened afterwards (deaths of human rights activists, and so on an so forth), is utterly irrelevant. It makes for nice headlines and works to smear people, but it doesn’t matter. History continues and evolves, and any number of factors could have led to any of the subsequent events. So it is a disingenuous to try and smear Clinton when the logic isn’t there.

2) It’s now 7 years after the supposed event. If Clinton broke the law – and I am not convinced she did (I am not a lawyer, and I doubt you are either) – then why wasn’t this raised in the last 7 years? Why wasn’t it raised in 2012 when Obama was running for reelection? Why wasn’t it raised in the primaries?

This allegation smells – like a smear job, in the same way that the republicans tried to smear her for Libya when she has been investigated time and time again.

How many other fictions will the Trumpies come up with?

DoNotKnowMuch's avatar

@elbanditoroso – Is this satire? Where have you been? Progressives have been fighting against Clinton in general…and her actions re: Honduras since 2009. I was well aware of this back then.

And is a valid defense of Clinton’s actions here to pretend that these are “smear jobs” cooked up by the Trump campaign?

@elbanditoroso: “1) what happened afterwards (deaths of human rights activists, and so on an so forth), is utterly irrelevant. It makes for nice headlines and works to smear people, but it doesn’t matter. History continues and evolves, and any number of factors could have led to any of the subsequent events. So it is a disingenuous to try and smear Clinton when the logic isn’t there.”

The U.S. supported a military coup of an elected official – using our tax dollars and in our name. If we shouldn’t be concerned about the aftermath of such an action, I’m not sure what we could be concerned about.

@elbanditoroso: “2) It’s now 7 years after the supposed event. If Clinton broke the law – and I am not convinced she did (I am not a lawyer, and I doubt you are either) – then why wasn’t this raised in the last 7 years? Why wasn’t it raised in 2012 when Obama was running for reelection? Why wasn’t it raised in the primaries?”

Like I said, it was and has been raised perpetually. Just because you aren’t paying attention doesn’t mean that it isn’t happening. And why wasn’t it raised in primaries? Hello? It was mentioned. But don’t expect the mainstream media to be a decent source here.

How did you react on March 3rd when Berta was killed? Did you suspect that it was a Trump conspiracy?

DoNotKnowMuch's avatar

@elbanditoroso: “How many other fictions will the Trumpies come up with?

And just to be clear – are you claiming that Trump (or his supporters) made this up back in 2009 and have been maintaining it by fostering it in progressives all this time? I’m confused about the details of this conspiracy theory. You got a “great answer” from someone, so this conspiracy theory has some believers. Fill me in.

elbanditoroso's avatar

@DoNotKnowMuch – I am reasonably well informed and a “newsy” that keeps up on things pretty well. Until your post, earlier this morning, I had never heard of this Honduras thing.

I’m not going to dispute that you think it was all over the news – my experience is diametrically opposite from yours.

It’s still irrlevant.

DoNotKnowMuch's avatar

@elbanditoroso: “I’m not going to dispute that you think it was all over the news – my experience is diametrically opposite from yours.”

I’m not claiming it was all over the corporate media “news”, but it was definitely covered. It depends on if you’re dependent on corporate media for information.

@elbanditoroso: “It’s still irrelevant.”

Ok. At least this is a value judgment and no longer a claim that I asked this question because of some Donald Trump conspiracy.

I guess we’ll have to disagree about it relevancy. But I suppose my question wasn’t about whether it was relevant or a good/bad thing – I think this is a pretty awful thing. It was really about legality. And since neither of us are legal scholars, I suppose the original question is still unanswered.

LostInParadise's avatar

With all the false allegations that have been thrown at the Clintons, it seems odd that the Republicans missed this, unless what she did is legal or they are in complete agreement with what she did.

Zaku's avatar

@LostInParadise I think most pro-capitalist foreign intervention is a Republican family value, no?

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

With all the false allegations that have been thrown at the Clintons, it seems odd that the Republicans missed this

They didn’t “miss this”. It was unimportant.

But the AM radio/FOX/rightwing blog machine follows a predictable and tiresome pattern.

1)
Some clown types up an illogical hysterical nonsense rant about some innocuous fact, based on the axiom that “Democrats ARE WRONG!!!”

2)
The clowns who have to fill blog space and airtime (Drudge, Limbaugh, FOX) will latch on to that rant as “THE WRONG THING DEMOCRATS DID TODAY”.

3)
The retarded bullshit will forever be repeated and promoted by conservatives as THE TRUTH.

This Fluther question is another example.

Get used to it. Trump supporters will be flooding the Internet with stupid stories until November, breathlessly painting “THE TRUTH!!!! about Killary!!!!”

DoNotKnowMuch's avatar

@Call_Me_Jay: “This Fluther question is another example.”

Very confused.

So, progressives are now conservatives, left is right…is up now down? What exactly are you proposing here? Are Clinton supporters really that ill-informed that they have absolutely no idea why the left and progressives oppose her?

Looks like I have my work cut out for me here…

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Very confused.

No confusion, your intent is obvious. It’s clear you want Mr. Trump to be president. Why be a weasel about it? What is shameful about your beliefs?

DoNotKnowMuch's avatar

^ You appear to have a very difficult time following the plot.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Looks like I have my work cut out for me here…

Yes, your man Trump is unlikely to be elected.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The bandit is absolutely correct about the smear job, because whatever Clinton did regarding Guatemala was at the behest of her government and 100% consistent with American behavior in the region for generations.

DoNotKnowMuch's avatar

^ Wait. Are you guys just messing with my head? Of course the U.S. has an atrocious record – especially in Latin America. But if I post a question about Carter’s involvement in East Timor, am I suddenly involved in some “smear”?

Is it not possible to look at actions and discuss them without saying, “Well, that’s just how it is”?

What about Iraq? Is it a “smear” to critically analyze Bush (or Clinton) for the invasion of Iraq?

Darth_Algar's avatar

Suppressing/overthrowing democratically elected governments is what America does best. Has been for well over a century. We love democracy, except when it doesn’t further American interests.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

It bears repeating until it sinks in: Every US President, whether Whig, Democrat, or Republican since Madison and his Manifest Destiny has illegally broken the sovereignty of every State in the Western Hemisphere with our military. It has become even more intense and frequent since Teddy Roosevelt decided to control the Caribbean and Central America to protect the American investment of the Panama Canal. Brutal revolutions, aboriginal genocides, political assassinations… whom would like to indict first?

Are you so naive to not recognize that you were born into—and are completely dependent on—one of the world’s largest and most effective Mafia-style organizations? You can object, feign outrage to front your political agenda, even bite the hand that feeds you. Or you can spend the rest your life organizing and supporting change in foreign policy.

How big are your balls?

stanleybmanly's avatar

@DoNotKnowMuch there is a difference between Clinton and those other fellas. And unless you claim that Clinton as Secretary of State directly defied the orders of her boss, then smear is what this is.

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