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Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

[Blast from the past] Are the Mods of Fluther more like babysitters or referees?

Asked by Hypocrisy_Central (26821points) September 11th, 2016

Seeking the take of new Flutheronians of this era, who were not here before, to see what their take on the moderation and the role of the Mods? Based off the flak certain question seem to conjure up melees on the yard, one would think the Mods have to either babysit to keep people from hitting, punching or name calling as a babysitter would unruly siblings, or a referee that is there to make sure the punches are legal and above the belt or people bringing shanks to the yard, racking the chamber if things start to riot. Which do you feel the mods are closest to, babysitters or referees of a boxing match or an ultimate fighting confrontation, or a guard walking the wall?

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84 Answers

cookieman's avatar

Only to the Jellies who are more like babies or toothless hockey players.

Seek's avatar

I think they’re more like tired moms who are over the 7468743588th argument of “Mo-om… She’s BREATHING on me!!”

SmashTheState's avatar

@Seek Close. They’re more like scandalized suburban soccer moms of a home owners’ association for whom the greatest possible sin is causing offence, and whose pedestrian morality is based on social standards determined by committee for the sole purpose of maintaining property values.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

No, they’re like wastewater treatment filtering the detritus that gets shit all over this forum from spam and senseless bickering between members. Sometimes it appears there is a little politics playing out in the background but it could just be that the filter should be a little more coarse. Frustrating when you stumble on a thread and you can’t get a feel for it because half the comments are moded out or some of your comments are removed for unknown reasons. I suppose that’s the price for potable water. I don’t think posters should be allowed to post a topic in general just so they can have the mods snipe the comments they don’t want to hear.

ucme's avatar

A hybrid of Carrie’s mom & Mary Poppins
“Just a spoonful of sugar helps the moderation go down…to hell child!

dappled_leaves's avatar

They are more like mods.

ragingloli's avatar

[4chan meme]

BellaB's avatar

Moderation here seems clear, firm and gentle. I like seeing that a post has been moderated. The site I come from would likely benefit from that approach.

SmashTheState's avatar

Firm and gentle like a good bowel movement. Or like mommy exerting her god-like and omniscient authority over a recalcitrant child. See, the thing about authority, and what makes it authority, is that it doesn’t act due to superior reason or morality, only superior force. Those who have the keys to the server room rule Fluther by force, rather as those who set up and enforce the laws rule the State. As Thoreau puts it, “Thus [authority] never intentionally confronts a man’s sense, intellectual or moral, but only his body, his senses. It is not armed with superior wit or honesty, but with superior physical strength.”

BellaB's avatar

It’s not my dime that allows this place to exist.

Someone else’s dime. Someone else’s rules.

If I didn’t like how it was being managed/run, I’d leave.

Seek's avatar

^ The voice of reason.

Aethelwine's avatar

I never did like the phrase if you don’t like then leave.

A little criticism can be helpful. We don’t have to be 100% gung-ho with anything to enjoy it.

SmashTheState's avatar

@BellaB Liberties are not determined by how much money you have. Or rather, liberties are in fact determined by money in the world as it exists, and absolutely shouldn’t be. It’s like the moguls who use their media empire to promote billionaire-friendly neo-liberal agendas and then tell people if they don’t like it they should start their own multi-billion-dollar empire.

But even in our thoroughly corrupt oligarchic society, the courts have in recent years provided some push-back on interesting premises. For example, here in Kanada, a number of provincial courts have begun recognizing what they call “quasi-public property,” such as shopping malls. There is recognition by some courts of the legal principle that rights do not exist unless the opportunity for their use exists. The courts have recognized that public squares and parks and other such traditional gathering places have been largely supplanted by business interests like shopping malls, and that they therefore have, through their ubiquity, taken on legal responsibility for rights which apply to public property like freedom of expression and freedom of assembly.

Fluther may be privately owned, but the Internet has become so intrusive and unavoidable (see Neil Postman’s Amusing Ourselves to Death for a good critique of online culture) that fora like these have largely supplanted in-person social gatherings like clubs. There is both a moral and legal argument to be made that Fluther bears some of the same responsibilities public property does as a result.

Seek's avatar

Private clubs can make whatever rules they like. Don’t believe me? Try to become a member of Mensa without passing the test, or become a Mason if you’re a woman. Or a member of the YMCA without paying the monthly fee.

SmashTheState's avatar

Try setting up a whites-only privately-owned social club and see what happens.

Seek's avatar

Plenty exist. A private club can deny a potential member for any reason. Unless the prospective member can prove the reason was race, they’re shit out of luck.

That’s beside the point, though, the moderation of this website does not discriminate based on race, gender identity, sexual preference, disability, or any other biological trait.

SmashTheState's avatar

I was only pointing out that being privately-owned even in our oppressive, capitalist, propertarian culture as it exists today does give carte blanche to whomever owns the property. Though this shouldn’t matter, since my main thrust is that what makes authority, authority is the use of force. Mods here do not use superior logic or reason or morality to convince someone to alter their statements of record; they use physical force on the basis of access to the keys to the server room (or rather, acting as agents of those who do – just as police act as agents of the billionaires whose wealth they protect). This is called authoritarianism.

I am painfully aware that most people on Fluther (and a much larger proportion now than in the past) are authoritarians, and are thus completely okay with the use of authority to silence people here. I’m not.

Seek's avatar

If only there were a big, wide internet full of other places for you to be.

Or, failing that, anything else you could possibly talk about.

Honestly, change the record.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

I started this thread based on another user saying women were such a mystery to men. I seriously wanted to know why that was.
That would be why women are so inconstant, not all of them, but some women say this but really mean and want that, so the truth is like trying to read a politician.
Um….the thing about ”If you don’t like it, leave it” might be sound reason, but why don’t some apply it to other areas, such as ”If you don’t like a question or thread, don’t go on it”. If I do not like a restaurant I don’t get to go, buy a plate then fling it on the wall or tip over tables just to make a statement to the chef I think the food stinks, if they have security, the security is supposed to keep order so that doesn’t happen. If security allows certain people to cause chaos but not everyone evenly in equal fashion, then the integrity of it starts become suspect.

Seek's avatar

One
Two
Three

That’s three times in the past month that you, Hypo, have bitched about the moderation here. That’s to say nothing about your questions lately bitching about how users don’t answer your other questions in the way you like.

I have to wonder: If you hate so much about this place, why do you stay?

SmashTheState's avatar

The accusation that I don’t talk about anything except my dissatisfaction with being oppressed by authority is frankly nonsense. Anyone looking at my user page can see I’ve contributed a colossal amount of expertise to this forum. For instance, I just spent a half-hour typing up a detailed explanation of the history of telemarketing nuisance calls. What you really mean is you want for my point of view to not exist. As @Hypocrisy_Central points out, “if you don’t like it, leave,” is apparently okay for me, but somehow it doesn’t apply to you.

And just incidentally, in case you haven’t noticed, when the oppression level here exceeds the amount I’m willing to overlook for the sake of assisting people with their problems, I do leave. Sometimes for years at a time.

Seek's avatar

Don’t tell me what I mean.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ Don’t tell me what I mean.
IF someone doesn’t want people to tell them what they mean, then maybe they should apply the same reasoning when trying to say what SOMEONE ELSE means, especially when they are always incorrect on what they said the other person meant. Just saying.

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Seek's avatar

The mods are free to remove any of my posts they like. They’ve already had the intended result. No skin off my nose.

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Kardamom's avatar

(Puts fingers in ears and sings la la la la la la la)

I hate it when mommy and daddy fight.

canidmajor's avatar

Definition of insanity: repeating the same action over and over and hoping for a different outcome.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Seems like the mods are going to maybe have to mod the mod question.

I think mods are more like refs. Sometimes you just ‘let em play.’
Because it’s playoffs. If you pull all the stars making controversial plays, the game would be boring. Flutherites can stick up for themselves, or ‘just leave.’

IMO the mods seem to be doing a good job. I don’t really notice their work. That’s a good thing.

ucme's avatar

Some users must be amateur opera singers, it’s all me me me me me me me with them
::walks away with hiccups from laughing so much::

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

By George, looking up top I guess there are some Mods still awake, they have not all become extinct. GOOD!

MrGrimm888's avatar

So when it says “response moderated ” does that mean the response is gone, or modified I’m some way?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ I believe it is gone, gone, gone, like a chicken through the corn. When I try to bring it up from “all my lurve”, it shows there but you can’t click on it like comments that have not been zapped by the Mods. 

SmashTheState's avatar

“The attempt to silence a man is the greatest honour you can bestow on him. It means that you recognize his superiority to yourself.”Joseph Sobran

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Great quote.

Not sure it’s applicable in this thread. Seems like the mods are just trying to keep the gloves up.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ Or the shanks tucked away under the rocks.

SmashTheState's avatar

@MrGrimm888 One of the things I talked about a lot on my radio show is my hatred for “safe spaces” and decorum in general. I’ve spent 25 years organizing at a grassroots level with street kids, panhandlers, buskers, the homeless, and all the rest of the so-called lumpen proletariat. And we managed to work together not because people signed a formal contract to “check their privilege” and abstain from using language which might cause offence, but because by showing people the practical benefits of pulling together instead of apart, showing people that their common interests were far greater than their prejudice, they wanted to be considerate of each other.

During my tenure as spokesperson and organizer with the Ottawa Panhandlers’ Union, we had a member who was a neo-Nazi skinhead and a member who was an HIV-positive transgender First Nations prostitute – and they worked together side by side and showed each other complete respect. It wasn’t because they were being forced to do so under threat of banishment but because each recognized they were stronger on the street when they had each other’s backs and together could even face down the police and city hall. It didn’t come easily; the first meeting the skinhead attended, for example, he told a racist joke. I didn’t point fingers, no one called him out. But afterward, a couple of people approached him and told him that wasn’t cool and no one wants to hear that shit. Because he wasn’t shamed and no one told him he was wrong or evil, he accepted it with a shrug and never did it again.

“Safe spaces” do nothing except sweep everything under the rug where it can’t be seen. Do you think because you’re not allowed to discuss bigotry that it doesn’t continue to fester and affect people’s behaviour to others?

Adlai Stevenson said, “Freedom rings where opinions clash!” I firmly and completely believe that. It’s why I get so angry and personally offended by censorship. It not only doesn’t do what the people doing the censorship claim it does, it actually does the exact opposite. Instead of creating a forum where people can respectfully share their divergence of views, you create a priggish, hypocritical forum full of mealy-mouthed, passive-aggressive intolerants who show the same icy correctness on the surface and seething contempt underneath that you get when a cop insists on using the word “sir” over and over again.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Unless I missed something, the mods are just trying to keep it safe. Desent is your thing STS. But you need a safe ,and constructive format in which to do so. Otherwise there would just be bathroom wall posts back and forth.
You have a strong personality, so you don’t mind defending yourself. Others may benefit from mods taking it down a notch.

In addition, as I’ve said before, I think the ‘attack’ style responses delineate from the point of the thread. Turning each thread into the SAME argument.

The mods are apparently necessary for the forum to remain interesting.

SmashTheState's avatar

@MrGrimm888 “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves.”William Pitt

Authority is easy. Freedom takes work. Do you think when I walk into a room with beggars, bums, hobos, hookers, pot dealers, buskers, street kids, skinheads, and immigrants whose backgrounds range from the Soviet Union to Pinochet’s Chile, that there’s instant solidarity? There’s pandemonium. Building community takes time and work.

Yes, you can make people work together at the point of a gun. Which is what Fluther does. But the second the gun wavers, you have open rebellion on your hands. And you are completely reliant on the goodwill of the people holding the guns because there’s sweet fuck-all you can do about it if they decide to misuse their guns. Furthermore, you create a whole society of people who are incapable of the self-control necessary to regulate themselves because they’ve never been forced to try.

This is not just theory for me. I’ve spent my life organizing radical unions and teaching others to do likewise. And if you’re going to claim that similar principles don’t apply online, think again. For 20+ years I’ve been the driving force behind a loose association of IRC channels which operate on the basis of rough consensus with no censorship and community control of executive power. Are there people who join and are unable to handle the responsibility? Absolutely. They use their executive powers to abuse other people and then are removed from the community by consensus unless and until they demonstrate they’re capable of taking responsibility for themselves.

In the beginning, people in popular channels run by top-down authoritarianism laughed at us and told us it would never work, that trolls and griefers would wreck everything. But a funny thing happened. A lot of the “trolls” and “griefers” discovered they liked being in a place where no one would kick them out just for expressing an unpopular or insulting view and, over time, they developed respect for the community and became valued members who’ve been with us a decade or more.

Treat people like children and they will be irresponsible. Treat people like responsible adults and most of them will live up to the challenge.

Again, this is not just theory. I’ve spent my life putting this into practice, and being asked to give teach-ins and workshops to teach others to do the same.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Pfft. Couldn’t disagree more STS.
‘Treat people like responsible adults, and most of them will live up to the challenge.’???!!!!

With all due respect sir.

I’m not sure what planet you live on. But on Earth, in reality, some sort of governing is required.

You do realize that your beloved ‘state’ is run by people right?

On one hand you hate government . On the other ,you assume that without a government, people will simply coexist like happy fish in a school.

You put FAR too much faith in humanity for someone who wants what humanity has built to be dissolved.

Civilization is the only realistic choice we have. Anarchy is a ridiculously unsustainable, destructive concept from a mad and ignorant teenager’s mind.
It has NO basis in reality.
Humanity will always develope a government for obvious reasons. So even after your ‘revolution ’ claims the lives of millions, life will eventually return to some form of government.

Your desire for revolution is self defeating. It would only result in even more suffering for the average person, and probably the world as well.

You have much to say about the ‘problems ’ in society, but little in the like of realistic solutions. Your quotes, and homeless antidotes are interesting. But there is a NEED for leadership.

You speak volumes about power, and justice being a relative concept . The truly powerful simply taking what they want.
Your mindset is a tangle of hipocrisy and disconnection from reality.

Even here on Fluther, there must be those who oversee, and attempt to bring order to chaos.

That is the role of the mods. That is the role of the ‘state.’

The mods ensure wolves don’t run rampant in the heard.

If you don’t want to be ‘censored ’ keep to your soap boxes ,calling for revolution. Hopefully nobody tells you there already was one….

Peace n love.

SmashTheState's avatar

Tell me, @MrGrimm888, how much experience do you have in community organizing? I’m internationally-recognized, am constantly in the news, have hosted two different radio shows on the subject, and there’s a Wikipedia article about me. I’m not saying this to boast, I’m just taking exception to your paternalistic tone and your pooh-poohing decades of actual life experience doing precisely what you claim is impossible and has “NO basis in reality.” So either I’m completely delusional or a fantastical liar. Which is it?

MrGrimm888's avatar

STS. I’ll go with dillusional. I have ZERO community organizational skills, but have been to protests ,mainly about black police shootings. And Travon Martin.

And again with all due respect.

I’ve never heard of you. FYI there are Wikipedia articles on dog sex too.

Your desire for revolution/anarchy is what rubs me the wrong way. Your thinking could get lots of innocent people hurt or killed.

Come to think of it, you could be a liar too. I don’t have the time nor desire to authenticate your claims.

I do enjoy you as a part of Fluther though. An interesting flavor, never pulling punches, and sticking to your guns.

Much respect.

Peace n love.

SmashTheState's avatar

Since you’ve already made up your mind about everything, ignore everything anyone else has to say, and regard anyone with professional expertise in the subject as “dillusional” (and possibly a big lying liar), why the hell are you even here? More to the point, why the hell am I wasting my time typing at you?

PS: “You’re a lying, delusional cunt – much love and respect” is the equivalent of telling someone to eat shit and adding a :) to make it all okay.

jca's avatar

@SmashTheState: The same has been asked of you, “Why the hell are you even here?” many times, and the discussion of moderating often discussed on the same threads.
http://www.fluther.com/189125/if-someone-asks-a-question-and-you-answer-that-question-honestly/

I’ve complained about the mods from time to time but I’m well aware it’s my option whether to stay or not. If I were to return time and time again and bash Fluther incessantly, including on profile page as you have done, in addition to constantly talking about how great I am, what I do, it would grow old, too.

A site without moderation would become a cesspool of spam and attacks and trolls.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@SmashTheState . I’m not trying to make it all ok. Just trying to maintain a civilized , and reciprocated respect.

If you would like me to sugar coat my responses to you in the future let me know. I figured you could take it like you give it.

You’re a powerful speaker. You tell me why we shouldn’t have mods or a government, and if I disagree with your opinion I’ll tell you.

Fluther more (like that?), I have been moved to change my mind on several subjects here. I consider myself richer for the conversations I’ve shared here.

I’ve learned many things l thought I had a firm grip on, like sexuality, atheists, religion, and the world in general on Fluther.

It is truly a rich tapestry ,of which you are a part. As I said, I enjoy your ‘part’ in this community. I don’t want you to leave. But if you have the views you express,get ready for a equally emotionally charged retort.

With all due respect.

P.S. You’re the one who mentioned lying,delusions and especially the ‘c’ word. I just followed you up.

Aethelwine's avatar

Smash does more here than speak about the moderation, but some people love to focus on him and this one topic. He provides intelligent and interesting answers on many topics.

I have complaints about this site, but I stay. I might take a break now and then. I’ve noticed Smash does the same. I wish people would quit suggesting a user leave when they critisize this site. Unless that’s all the person does, then I would understand. Quit focusing on the negative and look at his other contributions. I would be very disappointed if Smash left.

filmfann's avatar

They are errand boys sent by grocery clerks to collect a debt.

Source

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@jca A site without moderation would become a cesspool of spam and attacks and trolls.
Well, this site has tackled two of the three well, still waiting on the trifecta, or the hat trick.

@jonsblond Smash does more here than speak about the moderation, but some people love to focus on him and this one topic.
Oh, but that is how it rolls here, especially if it is a signature topic you can hang on someone you do not care for, notwithstanding others might have covered it more. ~~~

ucme's avatar

It’s widely understood, has been for years, that the moderation here is laughably inconsistent.
Can’t be bothered with an umpteenth explanation, those who know, know & have long since dropped it as even a mild issue…it is what it is & for me personally, has no negative impact on my participation here.
At the end of the day a removed comment is fucking trivial, not worth wasting my time or energy, just a thing that’s all.

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MrGrimm888's avatar

^Well damn…. I just see scorched earth. Clearly there was a fire…

Seek's avatar

Wasn’t me, this time.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

How do you find a needle in a haystack? You burn the haystack….

Seek's avatar

Good way to ruin a needle.

ragingloli's avatar

The correct way is, of course, a powerful electromagnet.
But since HC rejects science…

cazzie's avatar

I’ve started looking at the mods like an editor would edit a book. If they take my reply away, I just need to come up with a way of writing it they won’t put a red pen through. Of course, by taking it completely way, none of us get the opportunity to learn from those mistakes. We just have to use our imaginations. We don’t even get to know who wrote it. (but we get to keep the lurve apparently, so get in quick!)

Another way to ruin a good needle is by playing a skip in a record, over and over again. We red heads are fiery, no doubt. I’m learning to preserve my needles, on a good day.

Why do we answer questions we don’t like? Just because I find a topic or line of logic distasteful doesn’t mean I can’t have a say about it. In fact, perhaps it’s more important to speak up when I read something offensive or downright false. I just need to learn to do in such a way that the mods leave it and people can read it. According to Uncle Google, there are 1,025,109.8 words in the English language. I just need to find the right ones and put them in the right order. Piece of cake. (or as we say in my adopted language, ‘bare blåbær’.)

It’s a jousting match of sorts at times, but I just have to keep reminding myself to keep to the code. I’ve lost my temper here plenty of times, as you all know. I’ve taken long breaks away. I just want to become a better writer. Using humour is helping me cope.

Do I think there are there racist, misogynistic, self-deluded people writing comments and questions here? Yep. But that’s life and that’s people and that’s just my opinion. I keep saying it here: People are weird and dumb and illogical. I’m glad I’m not one.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@ragingloli The correct way is, of course, a powerful electromagnet.
But since HC rejects science…
How one can lie with impunity always amazes me. I have said on more than one occasion, I have no qualms with science, The with some who try to present it maybe. Science is a fascinating glimpse of how He put everything together, the fact He was wise enough not to show us everything is what trips some up. Yeah, one could use a very powerful electromagnet, and all the bother to take out a wall, or get a tractor and a crane to haul it over, and still have a lot of foreign matter in the way, when a match is much quicker and cheaper.

cazzie's avatar

Yeah, because, by divine intervention, nothing but the hay would burn, surely.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ Let’s not get dumb, nothing else would burn if the hey was on or in something that would not burn or moved to such….....that should have been quite evident….

Seek's avatar

And also, by divine intervention, the hay wouldn’t leave behind a pile of red-hot ash that would reduce the needle to brittle uselessness. Provided, of course, that you could find it in the ash-pile without the magnet.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Gawd, the needle being used is no biggie, and slowly washing away the ash will leave the needle. But do keep trying, we love that sort of spirit.

Seek's avatar

Do you usually keep your haystacks on top of fine mesh filtration systems?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

One moves the haystack to wherever is best to find the needle…..

Seek's avatar

That seems incredibly inefficient. What if the needle falls out while you’re moving it and gets lost among the dirt and grass?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

The it would be one heck of a weenie roast with no payoff. Then if it fell out, backtracking should make finding it easier… ;)

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Holly rusty metal Batman! They’ve been arguing about a metaphor, and a hypothetical needle for some time now…

cazzie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 HC has been arguing about metaphors and rusty hypotheticals for over 8 years. He’s a literalist in his bible beliefs and Seek and I haven’t believed in fairy tails since we grew up. So, this is all just force of habit and rather tongue and cheek. It’s about as close we get to ‘friendly banter.’

MrGrimm888's avatar

Lol. I see.

Seek's avatar

Cazzie is right on. This is the closest I think HC and I get to conversation anymore.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@cazzie He’s a literalist in his bible beliefs and Seek and I haven’t believed in fairy tails since we grew up.
But lies and subterfuge by your enemy you won’t believe is sabotaging you, you certainly have for the past 8 years. <tick, tick>

@Seek Cazzie is right on. This is the closest I think HC and I get to conversation anymore
Not by my choice, sadly

Seek's avatar

Well, if you came down off that Jesus ego pedestal once in a while and stopped making excuses for paedophiles, maybe we could be friends again.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ Well, if you came down off that Jesus ego pedestal once in a while and stopped making excuses for paedophiles, maybe we could be friends again
I am not on a Jesus ego pedestal, it is my reasonable life of service, I could say the same of the self-absorbed, I-am-my-own-god contingent, but I won’t call it that.

I make no excuse for acting pedophiles any more than I would for adulterers, fornicators, no matter how they fornicate. If I illustrate one cannot cherry pick their sins, if they can they need to bring the goods. If you toss filet mignon, and Spam in the bottom of a barrel and come back 2 weeks later, you will not be able to tell which of the maggots dined on the filet, or which ones dined off the Spam, they will all be equally disgusting.

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