Social Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

Do you agree with this council member and his lawyer that the act of grabbing this woman was just a "joke," and people are make a big to-do about nothing?

Asked by Dutchess_III (43576points) January 16th, 2017

Here is the Snopes article.

As she walked passed her reached between her legs from behind and grabbed her “groin” area. They had had a brief political argument a few minutes before this. In the argument he said he “didn’t need to be politically correct anymore.”
He’s been arrested for a class 4 sexual assault.

I’ve had men grope me as I walked passed. They seemed genuinely confused and baffled when I reacted with anger. One even said, “Stop with the game. You like it and you know it!”

So do you think she’s making a big deal over nothing?

Grabs popcorn and a Diet Coke!

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33 Answers

canidmajor's avatar

it’s assault, plain and simple. People who call it “ridiculous political correctness” have no concept of the level of discomfort (read: a certain amount of pain) that these actions cause. Bruising and swelling often occur. Actual physical damage is done.
Yet, still, women are told to be “good sports” and that it’s harmless.
It’s a dominance game. The same men that do this kind of thing would never dream of doing the same thing to dogs or children.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I have to say I’ve never been bruised or swollen. Just pissed. I promise you men would NOT like it if you just walked up and, out of the blue, grabbed their genitals. Their first reaction would probably be to punch you. It’s aggressive, not sexy.

rojo's avatar

Um. @Dutchess_III I think you would be unpleasantly surprised. The kind of men who grope women would welcome you grabbing their junk but they would also then expect you to “follow through”. Just sayin’. But to clarify, not if you were another guy.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Not if it was a sneak attack, @rojo. I was going to say after their first, unpleasant reaction it might hit them what was happening and then many men would welcome it, but I didn’t want to be accused of man bashing. Thanks for the opening.

My ex used to think it was great fun to come up behind me as I was working at the kitchen counter, and cup my breasts from behind and say, “Let me hold these out of the way!” Then he got mad when I got upset. “Can’t you take a joke?” And he kept doing it.
Finally I started giggling and reaching down and aggressively grabbing his crotch in return. He went “Whoa!!” and jumped away.
Then, a couple of times I snuck up behind him and grabbed his crotch and said, “Here. Let me hold this out of the way.” He did NOT like it. It finally made him stop doing it to me.

Dutchess_III's avatar

But you didn’t answer the question @rojo. What do you think of it?

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

I’m a guy and I get groped from my father in family get togethers. I don’t like it. I prefer to stay indoors and away from family (except my mom and sister). I tried telling my friends in university and they didn’t believe me and they dumped me for being a liar.

flutherother's avatar

Of course it’s assault and of course the woman was angry and she was right to take the creep to court. Just because the President does it doesn’t make it moral.

chyna's avatar

It’s never okay to touch another person in a sexual manner that you don’t want touching you.

marinelife's avatar

Absolutely not. It was an assault on her person in a sexual area. Even it it was intended as a joke, which from her account it was not, it is still sexual assault. Intent does not matter here.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Of course he just following his titillated leader and chief grabber. Lame excuse of a person, with a lamer lawyer.

jca's avatar

I can’t imagine that many people will say that behavior is ok and just a joke. I know some will, but not many.

gorillapaws's avatar

I don’t know about the Class 1 – 4 levels but it absolutely is sexual assault. What’s his defense? That Trump did it so it’s now ok? Really?

Strauss's avatar

^^That seems to be the excuse for more open racial slurs.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@gorillapaws We women saw that coming. My middle daughter, who is beautiful, said she’s been harassed much more than usual and couldn’t figure out what the hell was going on.

Pandora's avatar

I don’t care if you did it when angry, or laughing it’s still assault. But if someone would’ve did that to me, he would not have liked my physical reaction to being touched without consent. I have absolutely no control over my immediate reaction to being scared or humiliated. I probably would’ve pounded the crap out of his genitals. He would never try it again. Hell, he won’t be able to pee without pissing blood for some time. He was lucky he did it to a woman who apparently had a lot of self control.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I wonder…if she’d punched him, would she have been charged? Or would they call it self defense?

Pandora's avatar

@Dutchess_III I would certainly claim first defense along with an insanity plea. I wasn’t in my right mind when I pounded his genitals till my hands went numb.

Pachy's avatar

I don’t think it was a joke, but if it was, it was in Trump’s usual disgusting taste.

Furthermore, if it was joke—and again, I don’t think it was based on having heard so many other examples of Trump’s lack of maturity and taste—why would we our highest elected official whose very words influence actions and reactions around the globe, and who before the Age of Twitter, served, or was thought to serve, as a model for our youth, making it.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

What a fucked up society this is becoming. I give up. Maybe there’s money in selling women’s protective shields, like jock cups for females.

ucme's avatar

I mean, nobody in their right mind would think this behaviour is anything else but creepy & disgusting
If, as has been intimated, this is not uncommon in america, then your society is more fucked up than I thought.

jca's avatar

@Pandora: You might find yourself on the “defense” side in a court room. Then you’d be at the mercy of a judge and/or jury. You might be better off just calling law enforcement.

Sneki95's avatar

Classical peasant, just lock him away from women, or any people at all. He has no place in society.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

“he looked back with a really evil look in his eyes and said, ‘it would be your word against mine and nobody will believe you,’”

Nah, that’s not creepy at all. But, I think, his lawyer is just doing his job and even he knows that he doesn’t have a leg to stand on. He goes to trial on January 25th.

I’ve never had a guy tell me he grabs women and I’ve known an awful lot of men, from doctors to drug smugglers. It must be somethng they aren’t proud of. But if you listen to women, it happens all the time.

It seems to me that this would be a very unsuccessful approach. but when women say that the guy looks really shocked, surprised and entitled when the women react with with hostility, this tells me that it might work a lot of the time. Hard to believe. Maybe this is a big city thing, like NYC, where there is a huge variety of people. It certainly wouldn’t work in any of the places I’ve every lived. But who knows. And I wouldn’t hang with a guy who I knew did that. I wouldn’t want anyone to think I associated with that type. Not only is it disgusting, I don’t want to be in the line of fire when he finally runs up against the wrong chica.

cazzie's avatar

Perhaps America was ‘greater’ before there were workplace sexual harassment laws?

Dutchess_III's avatar

It usually happens at crowded clubs and bars. In my experience, anyway. Usually the men are drunk.

cazzie's avatar

@Dutchess_III You keep giving the men excuses. Why do you do that?

Pandora's avatar

@jca That would be advisable but I can have violent reactions. It’s why all my relatives and friends know not to scare me. I was asleep one time when my husband elbowed my head in my sleep. In an instant I almost punched him in face. I stop short of making a connection. But the rage stayed with me for a while, and that was knowing he did it while sleeping. It wasn’t on purpose.
My son was 2 when he slapped me awake and my first reaction was to slap him. I felt bad of course but I didn’t do it to be mean. It was just a jerk reaction. I didn’t even realize it was him till after I hit him. So everyone in my family has been warned never to startle me awake or sneak up on me. It’s why I don’t sneak up on animals either. A pet can bite it’s owner if it’s startled.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@cazzie I’m not giving them an excuse. Folks are getting the idea that it happens everywhere and all the time here. I said, in my experience, it usually happens in crowds. I’ve never had anyone walk up to me in the mall, or on the street and just grab me. Have you?

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Espiritus_Corvus I doubt it works a lot of the time. I think the men who do it are stupid enough to actually think it’s a compliment to the woman.

janbb's avatar

I’ve never been groped in a public place, I have to say. I’ve had guys on dates try to force me into sex and I’ve stopped them: I had guys shout things out their car windows when I was a teen walking, and I’ve been sexually abused by a relative but I’ve never been groped by a stranger in a bar or elsewhere. Not saying it hasn’t happened to other people and I hope it isn’t becoming more acceptable to do, just saying it’s not an every day occurrence in my life.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

I helped my father run a couple of his bars when I was in my twenties. My ol’ man’s philosophy about bars was that if you kept it clean enough, especially the womens’ room, and safe enough for women to frequent, the guys would be right behind them with money to spend. It was all about attracting and keeping women clientel.

He was right. In order to protect his investment, I forcibly threw a lot of guys out of those bars under the old man’s orders. All they had to do was come under his watchful eye. If they even looked like they were bothering a woman, the old man would point him out and I’d do my thing. In my experience, uninvited groping happens a lot in bars.

But the only time I’ve ever seen a guy talk about it, much less brag about groping women was in that Trump tape last year. Jesus. If I was that rich, I’d be so afraid that some gold digger with a rabid lawyer would sue me for every little thing and embarrass me in the process, I’d probably never leave the house. But this guy is out begging for it and bragging afterwards. I really don’t get it.

ucme's avatar

Make America Grope Again

Dutchess_III's avatar

I was a few times times. The first time I was at a club that had live bands. I was 17. I made the mistake of agreeing to slow dance with a guy I didn’t know. He groped me on the dance floor. I pushed him away and never slow danced with someone who wasn’t my boyfriend again.

Another time I was slow dancing with my boyfriend. As another couple went by, the guy pinched me on the butt. I twisted the asshole’s finger off. Almost. Neither my boyfriend or that guy’s girlfriend knew what had happened.

Another time I was with my boyfriend at a college bar. As I went to get a pitcher one of his friends pinched my butt as I went past. He almost lost his finger, too.

I’ve had random guys pinch my butt when I was in college, when we were at various bars.

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