General Question

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

Am I the only one who is noticing this shift in language recently?

Asked by ANef_is_Enuf (25184points) February 13th, 2017

In the past week, if I read the comments or discussions on internet stories about politics, there seems to be a nonstop stream of people calling out “the left” for being: corrupt, unhinged, violent, dangerous, anti-free speech, communists, etc. The focus especially on the left being ruled by rampant corruption and fueled by unrestrained violence is something that I am seeing more and more every day and I don’t recall hearing much of anything in that vein before the last couple of weeks. Has this been a popular opinion for a long time? Have you seen it as well? Do you know people who feel this way? What are your thoughts?

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91 Answers

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

Each side gets a turn to bitch . Every 8 years in the USA. Nothing changes.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@RedDeerGuy1 a significant portion of these comments are from non-Americans. People from lots of different countries. Part of the reason that it stuck out so much to me.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf When the president farts the world trembles. We take the lead from the USA. I talk more about American than Canada in Fluther threads. I’m still amped from the CNN breaking news logo , and I canceled my news package 1 month ago .

johnpowell's avatar

Most of the shit (twitter is now unusable) is bots.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@RedDeerGuy1 so you’re saying it’s a common opinion outside of the US that the left is violent and oppressive and that Trump has more or less saved the country from that? Because that’s what I’m suddenly seeing and it’s a new perspective to me.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@johnpowell a lot of it is awfully redundant.

johnpowell's avatar

Because it is a python script.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@johnpowell sorry, I don’t know what that means. Can you explain? Is that just on Twitter or you suspect widespread?

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf No. Just the more right a country gets the more left protests to counter. Everything is balanced In the end. Nothing ever changes much.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@RedDeerGuy1 yes, that is to be expected, at least to some degree. This is a very specific accusation that I am hearing that seems to have come out of nowhere (but it’s asserted like it’s a well known fact) and I’m trying to understand if I have missed it in my own echochamber, or if it’s a little more complicated than that.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf Some people just like to stir shit up. They are contrarians , trolls , or just bored. Next election they will switch sides to whomever loses. I learned early to take the news with a grain of salt.

johnpowell's avatar

Python is a scripting language. Fluther is written in Python. Very popular. Twitter has a application programming interface (API) to make tweets.

So you can program a bot to make at a interval if say there is a mention of Trump. Then the bot looks for those and then you post a tweet about Hillaries email server.

Twitter comments are mostly bots now.

SergeantQueen's avatar

It would appear that people are becoming smarter and realizing that there is a line between peaceful protests and domestic terrorism and that most leftists are bordering terrorism (Black lives matter, feminism, etc) by destroying businesses and making death threats towards genders and races, and to people who don’t support the views they have.
I have noticed the change and I am pretty happy about it. I hope that people continue to realize that the radical left is not a political group to be a part of.
My only disagreement would be that the left is not “Anti-free speech” They are for free speech, just only when it matches their views.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@SergeantQueen how long have you felt this way? Meaning, how long have you associated “domestic terrorism” with “Democrats?”

zenvelo's avatar

@SergeantQueen The only domestic terrorism has been from the white supremacist side of things.

Vandalism is not something I condone, but it is not terrorism.

johnpowell's avatar

Can we please not make the mods life worse.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

Please don’t make me regret asking this here. I am really looking for honest perspectives.

SergeantQueen's avatar

I am in no way breaking any rules or trying to start anything. You asked what we thought and I put what I thought.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

I am sincerely asking, @SergeantQueen. That’s why I asked the question, I want to hear your perspective because this is news to me. I, personally, know that the majority of the liberals I know (maybe all of them) do not condone or support violence, so it’s an unusual thing to hear.

SergeantQueen's avatar

I do not think that all liberals are bad or all democrats are bad. I assumed these people were insulting the radicals and they are the ones I dislike. I am not trying to say that all democrats are terrorists. I feel that constantly threatening to kill a race or a gender is terrorism. I feel that if you will go so far as to kidnap a white person and brutally torture him because “F*** white people” that you are committing a terroristic act. I do not think that voting for Hillary or being against Trump makes you a terrorist. I don’t associate democrats with domestic terrorism. I associate the extreme feminists and BLM protesters and other extreme leftists with terrorism. I should have been more clear about that in my answer instead of just saying “The left”

I guess I view the vandalism differently, I think they are doing it to invoke fear in others and to make others not feel safe. I don’t take it as a protesting act.

johnpowell's avatar

Fuck this. I’m not going to fight with a dumb brick wall.

Cruiser's avatar

I have to say my experience here at Fluther echoes the concerns you listed in your question. The last 20 months have been pure Liberal vitriol the likes I have not experienced in the real world. Hide behind the animosity of an avatar and anything goes and some of it is borderline insane. That said, I think people on both sides of the isle have been especially tight lipped in personal exchanges but what I have seen is people’s truer feelings will come out when surrounded by like minded peoples in numbers.

For the last 8 years the Republicans were led by the nose of the Koch brothers who funded all sorts of push back to Obama…now it is George Sorros who has and is throwing millions to make Republicans lives miserable. Politics suck and what is even more disappointing is how little effort people will exert to make their own informed decision. I just sit back and watch the Leming’s cascade off the cliff in the wake of this corporate manufactured nonsense.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Cruiser but does vitriol online make you think of “the left” as “violent?” Because that is the message I am seeing suddenly every day. Quite clearly, that it’s common knowledge that we are violent and dangerous.
I see both sides being angry and vicious to one another, especially if you’re outnumbered in either case. Not just on Fluther, but in general.

JLeslie's avatar

I’ve been hearing accusations of violent the last two months I would say. Communist has been out there as long as I can remember, because to the religious right secular equals communism for many of them. Although, I didn’t see it very much in fb, I just heard it in real life when they talk about atheists and the central government. I’d say what I heard more is the rights emphasis on capitalism and an obvious belief they hold that democrats are anti-capitalism. Oh, and we are baby killers. We will kill a 9 month fetus at delivery.

johnpowell's avatar

Can someone please provide a single example of a leftist protest turning violent? There might be a one-off but generally we don’t go violent. Breitbart doesn’t count.

Cruiser's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf It is a mixed bag as much of the violence that is portrayed in the news seems scripted by corporate snakes that are more desperate than ever to exert their billions and use the unsuspecting on either sides as pawns in their visual parade on all forms of media that IMHO is hardly reflective of what people feel and need in their daily lives. Do Black Lives Matter?? Of course they do but underneath it all it is good jobs matter….good schools matter that will help provide opportunity for the poor, immigrants and young people who feel disenfranchised by the government they have more reasons to distrust. The Media and or Bots are behind this charade that has people’s undies in a bunch. Again get informed and the media has less power over the low information voters they now rule.

johnpowell's avatar

So some Alex Jones shit. Later.

Cruiser's avatar

@johnpowell I bet I can find a hundred or more like these. The lefties were and still are very very angry and violent if you pay them enough.

JLeslie's avatar

Oh, and the republicans say “democrats riot, republicans never do that.” Similar to their schtick about “Muslims when they are offended will kill someone, but Christians never do that.” I hear those sentences constantly.

A friend of mine called people who turned violent at a protest anarchists.

johnpowell's avatar

There is also the sucker-punch…. At a Trump Rally. Remember the black guy punched by the old white guy?

Trump offered to pay his legal fees.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@JLeslie yes, I hear that, too. What can we do to change that perspective? Anything? Should we be more vocal about not supporting rioting? I do see a big problem when people seem to be against peaceful protest, too, Colin Kaepernick’s gesture of taking a knee was widely attacked as wrong, cowardly or un-American and I believe he was also receiving death threats. How do we even navigate something like that?

JLeslie's avatar

^^I think some of it started as race related. Like the black lives matter thing. There were protests during the height of that, and at one point I posted in Facebook how I support protesting, but blocking major thoroughfares and bridges is unacceptable. There had been a story of a family having a hard time getting over to St. Jude’s hospital in Memphis, because of a bridge being kicked by protestors. Later I read that story had been exaggerated, I don’t know the actual truth, but it doesn’t matter. When I wrote about it in Facebook more than one of my friends, and some are jellies, literally said if a child gets hurt to make a point it’s fine, because look how many people are dying from police brutality. Seriously, WTF?! They really saw it as ok. Like an acceptable hazard of war. Collateral damage that was justified to read the end.

One of our most liberal jellies who I’m fb friends with, he is way more left than me, thank God, came out against these disruptive demonstrations also. He, as he always does, had examples, and all sorts of information to support his opinion, and summed it up much better than I could.

Back to race, when I lived in the south “democrat” was almost synonymous with African American.

SecondHandStoke's avatar

For better or worse, Trump won.

This has sent the Left into a panic.

Democrats were so certain that Trump would bomb that hey didn’t pay much attention to Trump’s message and promises during the campaign. When Trump began delivering on his promises as soon as possible the Left couldn’t conceive of the reasons for his actions.

The Left has been able to coast along for decades. Now they have no clue how to resist in a legitimate fashion.

Protest moar.

JLeslie's avatar

Oh, about taking the knee. Is that the thing about not standing for the national anthem?

JLeslie's avatar

Sorry one more. By coincidence I just went to Facebook and a friend posted about a bill in TN called the run over protesters bill. I googled

My friend wrote “Since Tennessee has adopted the run over protesters bill, does that mean I can run over pro lifers if they are on the curb or are they safe”. That’s how I found out about it. LOL. He’s awful.

flutherother's avatar

I would just say that if you visit New York and spend most of your time in the sewers you will get the wrong impression of the city.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@JLeslie yes, as a statement against police brutality.

This is all such a mess, sometimes it’s hard to even be hopeful.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

I don’t think those on the left of the political spectrum are any more violent than those on the right. Extremists in either camp have the potential to become or to be violent. I haven’t seen much discourse that’s suggesting those on the left in the US are violent, but I’m not in the US and perhaps I’m not engaging with the same sources you are.

Furthermore, any protest movement – on the right or the left – has the potential to be hijacked by extremists from their own side of politics or from other factions outside who want to discredit the protest movement. I also think we’re living in a world of fake news, where people read things on Twitter or wherever and don’t have the critical thinking skills to evaluate the source or to look for more evidence to support claims made. That it was seen in some form of media is enough proof for something to be deemed truth. As a result complete bullshit becomes circulated as truth.

If people are labelling protestors unhinged, violent, communist etc. I would be looking closely at the affiliations of the critics. It suggests to me someone is trying to demean, discredit and undermine the movement.

dappled_leaves's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf “you’re saying it’s a common opinion outside of the US that the left is violent and oppressive and that Trump has more or less saved the country from that?”

I haven’t read all the other responses here, but in my experience, the answer to this question is “no”. People with extreme right-wing views have always made these kinds of accusations, although before Trump’s campaign the point could be made by calling their opponents Socialists, a dog-whistle dirty word that (for them) encompassed all that you describe in your details.

But it’s not a “common opinion outside the US”. It’s limited to the extreme right, a group that exists everywhere, in different forms.

NerdyKeith's avatar

This tendency to over generalise and vilify the left and liberals is nothing new. Its the classic persecution complex from the over privileged.

JLeslie's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf People got all pissed off about how disrespectful taking the knee was, and my response was it’s in quiet protest, it seemed ok to me. What type of protest do you want? Riots? It got attention, it didn’t stop the game, or hurt anyone. The only thing I took issue with was when they did it on Memorial Day, or whichever holiday it was that represents people who have served and died. On that day I felt they were wrong.

The republicans, especially the religious right, have a huge knee jerk reaction about anything regarding military, or anything that seems anti-patriotic to them. They take it very personally. Taking the knee to them was like spitting on the grave of their dead uncle who died on D day. Not standing for the anthem goes in that category. Not citing the pledge, not turning towards the flag, not covering your heart. All of these can be picked out and seen as “anarchy” or disrespectful, ungrateful, or even practically treason.

Where I live almost every event starts with the national anthem. It’s a little odd to me. Even going to the symphony they often start with the national anthem.

LostInParadise's avatar

What I have noticed is stories about violence on the right since Trump was elected. I did not even know that the U.S. still had neo-Nazi groups.

JLeslie's avatar

^^What country do you live in? I don’t remember.

LostInParadise's avatar

@JLeslie , I am American. I knew about the KKK and some white supremacist groups, but these neo-Nazi groups are something new to me. I have had the good fortune not to have much experience with anti-Semitism. I don’t know where Trump stands on this, but he has done a few things, like not mention Jews on holocaust remembrance day, that indicate that he is willing to play to these people.

JLeslie's avatar

^^I have a Facebook friend (we went to high school together) whose daughter converted to Judaism while attending college. When I found out (it was about two years ago when I found out) I asked her if it made her nervous. She had no idea what I was talking about. She, like so many, were fairly clueless about how much anti-semitism still exists, and especially she didn’t know about the violence. It’s reported, but not enough. Still, previously, when it was reported, nonJews missed it, or it just didn’t register the same way. When a Jewish event happens, logically Jews talk about it. The shooting in front of the holocaust museum, the shooting at the Jewish old age home. Bomb threats at synagogues. Bombs found at synagogues. Many synogogues have armed security or off duty police. Then there is the random bullying and teasing.

Not that I walk around constantly afraid, I’m just saying it’s there. It’s in some places more than others. You’ve probably seen me write before that white Christians have no clue what it’s like to grow up thinking their church could be a target of a mass killing. Blacks and Jews know that if they want to kill a bunch of us at once, here we sit.

My feeling is most of America isn’t antisemitic or bigoted.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

It’s the same problem the right had during the Obama years. Reasonable people refused to callout bullshit in their own ranks and now it’s getting batty and out of control.

JLeslie's avatar

^^I’m with you.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

What is shocking to me is the speed at which this is happening right now. It’s unparalleled.

JLeslie's avatar

^^I’m getting nervous it is putting the country on a path of no return. I think the whole birther thing and calling Obama a Muslim, and a socialist, and all that crazy hysteria was similar. Many republicans at the time really were terrified. They believed Obama wanted to be dictator forever. Latin American celebrities were talking about the horror of Castro and Chavez, and warning that Obama was of the same vain. They did not believe Obama would support Israel. For many of them all those things together is enough to damn the nation to hell. Literally and figuratively.

Now, we have democrats afraid of runaway capitalism, white supremacy, offending other nations, less healthcare coverage, and Russia.

I really think the hysteria has to stop, that includes calming down the protests and no postcard campaigns, and only talking about the issues in a calm manner. Journalists reporting what is happening (I fully support the freedom of the press, and rely on investigative reporting as a mainstay of freedom and democracy).

If it keeps up and it’s one side screaming and yelling and then the other, just depending on who is in office, then What does it accomplish?

For some reason people fail to see the country is about 50/50 split. Both sides see fit thinking the other side are practically less than human. It’s awful.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

^^people don’t often realize that the loudmouths are simply profiting from the hysteria. They stir it all up and skim what they can. It’s quite a racket.

Patty_Melt's avatar

The internet came into our lives, and we didn’t know what to expect. We knew it would change our lives, but we didn’t know how, or how much.
The internet brought knowledge. We now have instant access to history, current events, events abroad, and…
the thoughts and attitudes of every single individual, worldwide, who takes the time to post.
Knowledge is power, but this instant knowledge of all things global is relatively new.
We need to reprogram ourselves regarding the safe and intelligent processing of the information bombardment.
These feelings are not new. How they moved has changed. What used to be wafting about in beauty parlors, barber shops, and grain storage facilities, can now zap to the eyes of all in seconds. The ladies sharing views in a beauty shop in New Orleans now know what fellas are thinking in a Detroit barbershop, and an Ontario restaurant, and students in Oxford.
It is enormous quantities to process, vast differences represented, and instant emotions felt.
We have to get more accomplished at receiving, processing, and reacting to such great volumes of information and personal passions.
I’m not saying we should ignore what we see, bit somehow we have to get better at holding our passions back until we have taken some time to process and filter the information before determining what our emotional responses should be.

Cruiser's avatar

@JLeslie Wishful thinking if you want the hysteria to stop. It will only get worse the closer we get to the mid-term elections. The Dems are beyond desperate to recover some of the 1,000 state and local seats they lost since Obama took office that they will resort to all sorts of fake news scare tactics to try and demonize the Republicans to sway the hearts and minds of voters who voted Republican the last 8 years.

JLeslie's avatar

@Cruiser I would be fine with things amping up near the midterm elections. I want people to get out and vote! I want the power in congress to shift to the democrats. I don’t want hysteria and name calling, but I will want a lot of activity. But that is well over a year away.

Right now, I’m ready for it to be calmer, show some respect for people who supported Trump, and still at the same time we certainly should be reporting and voicing our opinions on issues, but just not with all the mean-ness.

rojo's avatar

The Dems are beyond desperate to recover some of the 1,000 state and local seats they lost since Obama took office that they will resort to all sorts of fake news scare tactics to try and demonize the Republicans to sway the hearts and minds of voters…. An example of scare tactics and demonization.

The Left has been able to coast along for decades. Now they have no clue how to resist in a legitimate fashion. So, when they emulate what the Republicans have been doing for the past eight years they are accused of being in a “panic” and “hysterical” and told to get over it.

Fat chance.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

Thanks for this great discussion, guys. So many great points being made.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Extreme circumstances call for extreme actions. Are Trump’s words,and actions not extreme?

The president’s supporters are the only ones who aren’t upset. It isn’t just “the left.” Many of Trump’s supporters are older white men,and white women. They get scared when they see the streets in uproar,because they are afraid of people of color. Afraid of change. Afraid that America will become something they aren’t used to. They don’t want to be the minority, and lose control.

Trump’s “make America great again,” is a thinly veiled “make America white again.”

They feed each other fear mongering BS about their kids having to speak Spanish, a Mosque on every corner, death camps,having their guns taken away, gay marriage as a norm,abortions for all etc.
They’re xenophobic cowards that cling to a world that only existed in the 1950’s on Back to the Future.

With Trump’s election, they’re hoping to reverse time. Put people of color “back in their place.” Only see Muslims on TV. Never see any of their precious “heritage” be slowly mixed/replaced etc.

And Trump intends to ram all these agendas through,as fast as possible. (Which is what they think they want.)

But the country is resistant. Now they (Trump supporters) see their selfish, greedy dream unraveling. They see the very people they are naively afraid of marching in the streets. So,they want to make it appear like the protesters are violent thugs. NOT TRUE. The violence isn’t an overriding theme in these protests. But each violent act is embellished, or magnified.

Many of these Trump supporters are old enough to remember whites protesting integration of blacks into white schools. Those protests were violent, and were born out of similar ignorance, and evil that the Trump campaign made its base on… They should be ashamed of themselves.

The protests WILL continue. And they might become more violent eventually. The majority of people in the US DID NOT VOTE FOR TRUMP. So,of course they will revolt when he does crazy things. And we should be happy that these people are willing to make their voices heard. It takes time,and money to protest.

If Trump and his supporters aren’t careful, they’ll push too far,too quickly. Which is what pattern they’re establishing. They may eventually force some sort of revolution.

The message is crystal clear. US citizens aren’t going to stand by and watch Trump destroy the world,while lining his pockets. He will face resistance each step of the way. Personally, I hope the stress kills him…


rojo's avatar

The right has always had the better Orwellian propaganda machinations.

How else could you come up with phrases like Clean Coal Mitigation and Clear Skies Initiative to describe programs designed to remove all the safeguards and pollution protections that help keep the public safe and free corporations to do as they deem fit. The Patriot Act and Operation Liberty Shield, programs to deprive Americans of their freedoms and justify the detention and incarceration of asylum seekers..

Lets talk about Ethnic cleansing,’ ‘revenue enhancement,’ ‘voluntary regulation,’ ‘tree-density reduction,’ ‘faith-based initiatives,’ ‘extra affirmative action,’ ‘single-payer plans’ Wonderful sounding phrases designed to prettify selective enforcement or deregulation or removal of protections of our own citizenry from the power hungry and those who control the purse strings of the government.

Probably worthy of its own question.

JLeslie's avatar

When will it end? Sure Hillary had more votes @MrGrimm888, but it’s not that many more. There is still about half the country who voted for him. Don’t you get it? Why don’t most liberals get it?

Do you remember some conservatives being afraid Obama was the next Chavez or Castro? That Obama was a dictator wanting to stay in office forever? The birthers screaming about Obama not being American. People worried he was Muslim and anti-Israel. Don’t you see that to them their fears are real. Did you want them to calm the fuck down and see how things work out? Did you give a shit about their fears. We didn’t, because the fears were completely unfounded, and the other side feels that way too about many things we worry about.

We need to let events happen to some extent, or the country will just always be in a state of protest and unrest. The Flynn fiasco has happened. That would have happened without any violence or protests, because I’m not suggesting we all go brain dead, and I’m not trying to quiet the press, or people’s opinions. I am trying to say, I’ve been trying to say, let’s do it in a way that if we were on the other side we would still be able to see the America I believe we are supposed to be, and not a country that is out of control.

Why should Republicans allow or Democrat to lead, if a Democrat wins next time? I hear Democrats saying Republicans do it too, they say horrible things too.

Nanny nanny poo poo. You say it too. I can do it if you do. I can go after your wife’s looks if you go after my wife. Lock her up! Lock her up! Cheeto. His hands are small. Did you hear what Madonna said? She threatened to blow up the White House! That is jailable! Imagine if a good ol’ boy from Alabama had said that about Obama in the White House?

Dear God. What a mess.

@rojo I agree the Republicans are artful in their use of words. They also use Christian terms that go past a lot of us. I’m more in tune with it now.

Cruiser's avatar

@JLeslie I can appreciate your sincere desire to have the Dems regain seats they lost…but I need to ask you one question…..Why? Why would you want to return to the pain and suffering we have endured at the hands of the Dems? You want higher taxes more lost jobs? Do you really want more of that? Do you really want more broke States? A higher national debt?

Name me 3 really positive things Democratic leadership would do for this country today that they hadn’t already tried to campaign on and lost their asses on?

rojo's avatar


I hate to nitpick but I believe the proper English term is “Nanny Nanny Boo Boo”. An ancient excerpt derived from the old Pictish taunt chanted toward the Roman Cohorts on the opposite side of Hadrians’ Wall.
Although the chant in its actual language is not known, in A.D. 320 the Roman Historian, Flatulus, recorded it as “Matricibus Matricibus Boo Boo! Virga Tua in Stercore! and stated that the invective had been hurled at the Romans for more than two hundred years by that time.
Flatulus’ quote can be roughly translated to “Nanny Nanny Boo Boo! Stick Your Head in Doo Doo!”

JLeslie's avatar

@rojo Interesting. I’ve been saying that incorrectly my whole life. Thanks.

Strauss's avatar

@rojo as a side note, the musical intervals in the “Nanny Nanny Boo Boo” song are so prevalent in every culture in the world that ethnomusicologists refer to it as the “universal plaint”.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

It’s easy to see that a lot of people are stuck in this mindset that if someone doesn’t support Trump, they’re on “our side” and that’s not accurate. This is a huge part of what lost Clinton the election. I say this as a liberal who voted for Clinton, but I also live in a swing state and I am watching the left trample everyone in the middle assuming they are on the same page and no one is listening to each other. It’s extremely frustrating to me because I share virtually all end goals with the left but I am not so sure that the way we’re going about things is the best way because I am watching us further divide ourselves at a time that we need to be doing the opposite. I know way more people who are against Trump but also think that the protests are insane than I know people who are pro-Trump and anti-liberal. @JLeslie is right, this strikes me as childish, it’s not conflict resolution. At least, not from where I’m standing. This “us vs them” mentality is flawed.

Strauss's avatar

However, on a more serious note, and more in line with the OP:

I think what you are noticing is something I have noticed over the past several election cycles, going back as far as the 1990’s, and increasing up this point. It is a phenomenon I call the “echo chamber”, and its existence and growing strength are in direct proportion to the transformation of the news industry from a trustworthy public service, where you could easily tell the difference between news and opinion, into the conflagration of news/information/entertainment that the industry has become today.
I have often noticed that if something is shouted to “the media” loudly enough and often enough, it will take on the appearance of the truth. At the risk of beating a dead horse, this is, IMHO, one of the main reasons Hillary’s candidacy suffered so much damage, even before the election cycle. And I don’t necessarily think it was without design. The Clintons have been accused and investigated over the past quarter century. Accusations and innuendo are perfect fodder for the echo chamber. There has never been a trial, except for Bill’s impeachment, and he was acquitted.

As @Patty_Melt stated above, we as a society are still dealing with the effects of the digital revolution, and the sheer volume of information of all kinds that assails us. We are concerned about privacy, but we find it necessary to publicly log every minute detail of our lives, and to publicly “like” (or not) every minute detail of everyone else’s life. The information available to us is astounding, amazing and overwhelming. The old filters of reliability are no longer there. “I read it on the internet!” “Oh, it’s got to be true”!

Those who are masters of marketing noticed the potential early on. Almost every print ad I see includes the symbols for at least Facebook,Twitter, Pinterest, and Google Plus, and might also include LinkedIn, Tumblr, Instagram and a few others I might not remember of the top of my head. But I do remember them, at some level.

Donald Trump called into “Fox and Friends” every Monday morning for years before there was any speculation he might run for President. Bernie Sanders was a regular on the “Brunch with Bernie” segment of the Thom Hartmann program, again for years, before he made any mention of running for President.

I felt the burnout. It added to the pain of disappointment at the results of the election. I forced myself into digital exile. I only visited Fluther, and avoided the news, broadcast, print and digital. I figured if there was something that was going to affect me directly, I’d hear about it and be able to follow up as needed. I have re-entered the stream, slowly, gingerly, as one who almost drowned the last time I was in that river. I have started to question even my own former trusted sources, and have a urge tendency to follow reports to the source, and then judge the accuracy of the report based on the first source.

News reporting has become like Wikipedia. Almost anyone can start a news rumor, just as almost anyone can write a Wiki article. It is the responsibility of the consumer of this news to determine if it is truly accurate, or if it enforces said consumer’s own beliefs regardless of accuracy.

Seek's avatar

Lol @ the open carry, lynch mobbing, kill all Muslims, stand your ground, go to war, bomb the Middle East, fuck the refugees, let the pregnant women die, capital punishment circle jerk crowd calling anyone violent.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@Cruiser . “pain,and suffering at the hands of the Dems.”...

What could you possibly be talking about?...

@JLeslie . Yes. The right had unfounded concerns with Obama. But he never gave them grounds… Trump has already started the behavior anti-Trumpers were afraid of. I don’t see a valid analogy there. Fears about Trump are based in reality,and are nowhere near as ridiculous as the fears about Obama. Obama’s detractors had tabloid material. Trump’s opponents can point to direct quotes, and actions by Trump.

In addition, I can’t remember anything close to the backlash Trump is getting when Obama took office. Unless you count the anti-Wall Street protests. Which had little to nothing to do with Obama.

Obama NEVER did any of the crazy things that the idiots on the right alleged that he would. Trump has already tried to ban Muslims, pissed off China and Mexico, hired a spy as the leader of NSA, is trying to repeal the ACA, started deporting immigrants, and embarrasses himself and his country daily.

If you would kindly pull.your head from the sand you’ll notice that it is “us against them.” A war Donald started,not the left.

He will continue his war on the middle class,poor,women,and minorities while lining his pockets until he is stopped. Either by his own stupidity, or impeachment.

JLeslie's avatar

^^That’s the point from the right, they didn’t protest for weeks. They did bitch for years though. There actually were quite a few very vocal people against Obama the first year, mostly about socialism. Perception is reality for the individual.

I’m talking about how people talk to each other. If you think it’s ok to call Mexicans criminals and republicans deplorable, and not use Trump’s last name, but I guess what was the original surname, and be sure to put Hussein in every time you mention Obama, and talk about hand size, and do commercials that involve your children (Ted Cruz) saying mean things about another candidate, instead of just talking about facts and concerns; you keep going right on.

If children did it in the schoolyard we would punish them. If a spouse did it to another spouse, we would call it verbal abuse. You might need some of those people supporting Trump one day. What if the worst is true and Trump is another Hitler? Not all of his supporters are going to be ok with that. They are ignoring that talk, because they don’t believe that will happen. It’s not that they all agree with Hitler, it’s that they think all that talk is overblown hysteria.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

The vast majority of Trump supporters are not bigots, they just need work and are tired of being ignored or being pushed around.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

Again, I don’t think it’s as black and white as people want to make it. It’s not just “Trump supporters” vs “liberals.” This question grew out of my own observation that there appears to be a growing movement of anti-left propaganda geared not at the left, not at the right, but at the middle. Many of the very people that the left keep lumping in with “Trump supporters” who we collectively view as the worst thing a person could ever be. Everyone keeps pointing it out, but we just stick our fingers in our ears and refuse to hear it. Not everyone who is against Trump is with us and the dialogue across social media seems to be directing people away from the left. Is it propaganda? Organic? Who knows, I have my suspicions as I’ve stated, but how we respond to what has happened in the last year is going to have a huge impact on what happens in upcoming elections. If we can understand that not all Muslims are ISIS, then why not that not all non-liberals are irrational bigots?

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Don’t forget the exodus from the right as well, it’s pretty substantial. The left wing behavior recently though has stooped at or below what we saw from the right earlier. It’s largely organic, people are simply tired of the antics. As I said earlier nobody seems to want to callout the trouble makers in their ranks.

Strauss's avatar

nobody seems to want to callout the trouble makers in their ranks.

Sadly true, and this is a situation that invites action by provocateur types, whose sole objective is to disrupt and discredit those who are exercising their constitutional right of free assembly.

To paraphrase one of the Founding Fathers, I may not agree with you on a given issue, but I fully support your right to peaceful assembly in support of any given issue.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

It also seems people are more readily lead by them now too. The internet, social media and connectivity seems to be a herd mentality amplifier. Anne coulter and michael moore get taken seriously these days, that says a lot.

blackbetty's avatar

This has been a popular opinion since the DNC rigged the primary.

rojo's avatar

I have noticed that we no longer have biased news from the “liberal media”. It no longer leans one way or the other, now we have news and fake news.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

It still leans pretty far left.

rojo's avatar

Border Wall Breached 9,000 times. Does it even work? I am sorry @ARE_you_kidding_me exactly where is the left leaning slant to this?

Fox News Shepard Smith says Trump lying to the the Public

Fox News says Trump is a liar

Again, I am sorry @ARE_you_kidding_me exactly where is the left leaning slant to these articles? Let me help you out here. There is none. Perhaps you would like to fervently believe there is because it points out the so-called President is a lying sack of shit and that this does not agree with your world view so you would like to disavow this but that does not make it any less so. The only lean is in your head.

Doesn’t matter, it is what it is regardless of what the hell you wish it was.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Fox leans far right, all the other big news outlets are skewed left or center-left. Overall the media is left and especially if you disregard fox news. This isn’t exactly controversial.

Strauss's avatar

“Perception is Reality” check:
2017 definition of radical leftist is about the same as a 1980 definition of left-leaning centrist.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Strauss can you give me sources? Not because I doubt you, but because I’m curious.

Strauss's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf I don’t have any objective sources; this is from my own personal observations over the years, from a liberal/progressive point of view.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Strauss thanks. I was born in 1982, so I don’t have the same frame of reference. I should probably read up on this subject.

rojo's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf Here is a starting place for you. It addresses the shift of the center toward the right end of the spectrum. It was from another Q&A site in answer to a question as to whether or not Ronald Reagan could have been elected if he were running in todays conservative climate:

“Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) [declared] that Reagan wouldn’t be electable in today’s Republican Party.”

Cenk Uygur maintains that Reagan “took the country further right in many ways but our political spectrum has moved so far to the right that he looks left behind by comparison.”

This article in Newsweek details how Reagan would not pass modern Republican litmus tests:

Example Reagan positions:

Taxes. ”...although the Gipper slashed taxes dramatically during his first year in office… After 1981, Reagan raised taxes nearly every year: 1982, 1983, 1984, and 1986. The 1983 payroll tax hike even helped fund Medicare and Social Security—or, in terms today’s Tea Partiers might recognize, ‘government-run health care’ and ‘socialism.’”
Federal employees. ”...during the Reagan years, federal employment grew by more than 60,000 (in contrast, government payrolls shrunk by 373,000 during Bill Clinton’s presidency)...”
Deficits/Debt. “The gap between the amount of money the federal government took in and the amount it spent nearly tripled. The national debt soared from $700 billion to $3 trillion, and the U.S. transformed from the world’s largest international creditor to its largest debtor.”
Government sponsored healthcare. “As governor of California, Reagan nurtured and eventually expanded Medi-Cal, the nation’s largest Medicaid program.”
Immigration. “Reagan passed the Immigration Reform and Control Act, which eventually granted amnesty to 2.7 million illegal immigrants, and he continued to speak out for immigration rights after leaving office.”
Gun control. “Reagan was a staunch backer of the Brady Bill, urging Congress in 1991 to ‘enact it without further delay.’”
Foreign policy. Negotiated with Terrorists (Traded Arms for Hostages with Iran). Negotiated with the “Evil Empire” (USSR) without Pre-conditions. Made a Decision to “Cut and Run” From Lebanon After Our Troops Were Attacked
Gay rights. “In 1978, he opposed California’s Proposition 6 ballot initiative, which would’ve barred gay men and women from working in public schools, and risked what his advisers predicted would be political suicide in taking to the airwaves to denounce it. Later, Reagan would become the first president to host an openly gay couple overnight at the White House.”

Promoted by Plarium I think this is to whom credit for this belongs, if it is not, I apologize, It was not clear

Strauss's avatar

@rojo thanks for the research. I just didn’t have the resources at the time.

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 It dawned on me that the Republicans did do some protesting. Besides speaking out as I mentioned above, the Tea Party quickly had some momentum and became a right wing movement, and they were protesting for a while there, and people all over social media were talking about it, and stating their disapproval of Obama and the deficit (they had amnesia about Bush increasing the deficit) and they bitched about the TARP, which a large portion of those people bitching somehow didn’t know Bush did the TARP. I realize Obama gave out loans to banks also in a second round and the help given to the auto industry, but in pretty sure if you asked 1,000 random republicans at least 75% would say the TARP was Obama.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@JLeslie. The most common negative republican reaction to almost any question is Obama…

He was blamed for things that happened before he was president.
I’m not sure how long it will take for him not to get blamed for future events…

JLeslie's avatar

^^He will brought up for the next 50 years I think.

Strauss's avatar

^^Just as Reagan is now mythologically credited with do many things…and it’s only been 30 years!


MrGrimm888's avatar

^The winners write history.

JLeslie's avatar

@Strauss Exactly like Reagan. I was thinking about him when I wrote my answer.

Strauss's avatar

Don’t get me started on a rant about “St. Reagan”!

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