Is Fluther nothing more than what college campuses call a "safe space"?

No, it’s not. It’s just not a free for all, either.

Fluther has standards. That’s all. That’s why we can have so many contentious discussions that are still thoughtful and respectful. (And when they deviate, when they get ugly, that what we have mods for—to uphold the standards when we forget to ourselves.)

Well, theoretically there’s nothing wrong with a “safe space” if it’s a specialized private organization or place where people can choose to go (such as an on-campus LGBT group or a Christian group). The problem is when entire campuses become safe spaces.This usually leads to the silencing of dissenting views, does not foster discussion and debate, and results in academic censorship.

This website is not claiming to be a specialized group that only allows in certain people with certain views, but sometimes it can come off that way with the lopsided way the moderation is applied.

@DominicY
In my opinion, subject to debate, this website is indeed a specialized group that, while certainly giving the appearance of allowing different views, clearly shows favor to a particular genre.
And that is fine.
Nobody is entitled to demand that a Q and A site like Fluther have standards that favor their particular point of view.
The thing that is interesting about Fluther is the difference between the implication that differing points of view are welcome, and the fact that if they are too different, they are aberrant.
Except, differing points of view are not aberrant. They are real. They are out there and they have to be heard or else they hide in a cellar somewhere and become dangerous.
I do not believe in God. But others do. But if you say so on this site, you are not tolerated, you are regarded as a moron.
I did not like President Obama, nor do I like President Trump. But if you did not love Obama, and if you do not hate Trump, you are a moron.
I do not think that woman should be prevented from having abortions, I oppose the death penalty, I do not care what gay people do, and I think US foreign policy is a little trigger happy and I know this from experience. But I do not think the federal government should get involved in what are clearly state issues, and I like the First and Second Ammendment. So in spite of the other positions, those small issues, on this site, makes me a wing nut neanderthal.
I am not complaining, I have been called worse, I do not give a shit, and I believe most people here would not say it to my face if they had the chance.
But, just sayin…

I’m an adult. When I find myself in an uncomfortable situation, I remove myself from it. I don’t expect the situation to remove itself from me.

There are of course exceptions – and for the most part this site is really good about being reasonable about getting rid of bad apples (though I can think of one in particular that should have been culled long before they finally were…).

In my opinion, when a user’s disruption outweighs the value of their contribution, then and only then should they be removed.

There are other sites that are specifically “safe spaces”. This is not one of them. I miss the knock-down, drag-out debates that used to happen here. They were way more intelligent and thought-provoking than the nonsense going on on Facebook.

No, as it is not declared as such by the creators or mods, unlike the examples you gave. It’s just the Wild West but with almost no cowboys and barely any coyotes.

Fluther is a safe space…..
if you agree whole heartedly with the right members.
Otherwise, it is a minefield.

Here’s my perspective, for contrast.

I don’t really know what a “college safe space” is, or how it works, despite having heard various descriptions on the Internet, all of them different and incomplete, and most of them indignant or outraged about them. So, I dunno about those.

Your literal question here (“Is Fluther nothing more than an internet safe space?”) is easily answered as “no”, because 1) even if it were that, it’s more than that. In fact, it’s mainly a Q&A site with relatively smart and patient people, and 2) I also don’t see how it matches your definition of “safe space” as a site where users are “absolved of the responsibility to defend their ideas, and are granted a place to escape (in my opinion, evade) instead” – either you haven’t fully explained what you mean exactly, or no, I don’t think your right.

In your follow-up answer, you give some more details of what you seem to be thinking. Sounds like you additionally mean that there’s a certain level of agreement on some issues, and that it’s not a safe space to disagree with those.

And to that, I would not agree, but would grant you that there is a community of people who have been here a while and some of them agree on some issues and when a topic gets to one of those, they’ll express their views on it, including disagreeing with people who disagree with them.

I don’t think it prevents people from disagreeing back, so I don’t see that matches your definition of “safe space”, do you?

I’d say it’s more like an unsafe space, unless everyone happens to agree with you, though that sometimes happens.

Certainly I have some opinions that aren’t shared by many, and I sometimes attract some people disagreeing with what I post, but it doesn’t stop me from continuing to disagree back at them.

I don’t think it’s at all accurate that people get treated like a moron for saying they “believe in God”. I’m pretty sure many people have expressed dislike or dissatisfaction with Obama without being called a moron, though they might get called a moron if they say Obama is a non-American or an Anti-Christ out to destroy America. Expressing Trump approval will probably tend to get quite a few unfriendly replies… funny thing, that.

Even if there’s a lot of agreement that Trump is atrocious and that his supporters are amazingly wrong and say so, that hardly makes it a “safe space” so much as a space where they will meet strong disagreement (and ya possibly being called a moron). There are regulars here who supported (support?) Trump. It doesn’t mean they or new Trump supporters can’t also call the anti-Trump people names, though they might well be outnumbered. I’ve been called a few things here myself from time to time. (Well, personal attacks aren’t allowed, but some remarks might slip past, and saying strong things about people’s ideas can fly im social.)

The other points you mentioned about your own positions really don’t add up to right-wing at all. I personally identify as neither left nor right but I tend to measure on scales that try to force a left/right position as far off the left side of the scale, but I agree with all seven of the positions you mentioned, and don’t think any of them are right-wing except possibly for the right to arm bears & bear arms.

I feel like it’s turning into something where if you talk about your mental illness or your family’s mental illness you get treated with kid gloves. Everyone else gets tossed to the wolves.

There is a difference in the exchanging of ideas and harassment. I do not know why someone’s opinion has to be contentious to get their point across. I find in those cases it often means the person lacks the ability to communicate properly and may be a bully. The loudest voice in the room doesn’t mean they are right.

As for Colleges having a safe place, why not? It seems in the current political environment that people can’t converse without things turning ugly fast. Our brains and emotions need a health break now and again. I tune out from news every once in a while when I feel overwhelmed. It doesn’t mean I cannot defend my ideas. It just means I don’t find that it needs to be a part of my every waking moment. I only have one life and I intend to enjoy as much of it as I can. Having my back up against the wall at everyone’s will doesn’t scream enjoyment. College kids already have to worry about grades, and some about money and grades, and work. And those who take social or political classes, no doubt spend plenty of time in class defending their views and exchanging ideas. So if they need to go off somewhere, where no one will pick their brain, then I say bravo.

I remember when my daughter went to college. Between being worried about grades and social aspects of college life, she also became very political. Every time I spoke to her she seemed so angry and her health was deteriorating. She had more bouts of asthma and her eczema got really bad. All that stress can kill. We all need to unplug every once in a while.

I told her that she needed to get better control over her emotions and learn to let go of things that she had no control over. It took a while but I finally started to see my happy child and healthier child.

I don’t think fluther needs to be and angry site. That will alienate more people and doesn’t benefit anyone in the long run. I don’t always agree with people but sometimes their views can at least make me see things from their point of view. Doesn’t mean that I may believe that their point of view is right, because some times there is no clear right or clear wrong.

An example would be abortion. My faith says it’s wrong. Thou shall not kill. My mind wonders, if abortion is wrong in the morning after pill when maybe the egg and the sperm haven’t joined? Also, is it right to make a rape victim have a baby that may cause them more mental distress? Also should this even be my call? I’m not going to raise the baby, and I didn’t make it. So you see. I couldn’t call it right, and I couldn’t call it wrong. And I was strongly against abortion but by listening to different opinions I learned I was’t that clear on when life begins and who’s life should I be defending. The would be mother, or the unborn child? Especially when I hear stories of people who have children and then abuse them till they kill them. Should we force women who are at risk during pregnancy to choose their child’s life over their own? I’ve read tons of different opinions on fluther on the subject and one thing has been made very clear. I clearly don’t know enough to condemn anyone who has an abortion. I can only make a judgement call for myself.

I don’t think that it is, no.
Safe spaces serve a specific purpose, which is to allow people who are generally seen as marginalized, to escape the stress, judgment and (often) oppression that they experience outside of those spaces. At least, that is what they are supposed to be, as I understand them. Safe spaces can become problematic when people use them to stifle ideas, discussion or when they are used to the point where people start to shelter themselves to the point where growth and constructive solutions to problems cannot be developed.

Fluther isn’t that sort of space. What it is, however, is biased and clique-ish and it always has been. I make a comment like this once every other year or so (perhaps more, I don’t keep track) and point out that this has been an ongoing issue with the community for as far back as I can remember. It is the exact reason that many jellies have left (myself, included. Though, it was never aimed at me, I got sick and tired of seeing other jellies singled out for having differing perspectives from the majority and being bullied for it.) I stopped expecting things to change a long time ago. I don’t have a clue what is going on right now, nor will I pretend to, nor do I wish to, but it does appear that the trend of favoritism, censorship and bias has finally reached the inner circle. No matter how fair and reasonable the mods are or try to be (and I truly believe they are exceptional folks, this is not a criticism of any individual or even the mod team as a whole), this issue is rooted in the community. We overlook and fail to flag members that we like for small infractions. Shit, you can barely tell the difference between general and social anymore. But, members who rub us the wrong way? The ones who say abrasive things or who disagree at every opportunity? We flag them for every little thing, because “Fluther has standards,” but they aren’t evenly applied. Anyone who fails to fall in line is socially ostracized and eventually modded out if they don’t leave on their own.

I think there’s a difference between what happen to be the majority opinions here and how, for example, moderation is handled. Yes, it’s unfortunate that there are “unpopular” opinions here, but that’s really just a result of the users and what opinions they happen to have. What would be really egregious is if the moderation was skewed against people with those unpopular opinions (and I haven’t seen much evidence that it is, despite some claims). Like, I don’t have a right to have people agree with me. I would like it if people did; it’s not fun posting something and having everyone disagree with it. You feel like you’re being ganged up on. But there’s not a lot that can be done about it (except recruiting more members with those same views), unless those disagreeing with you are breaking the rules and personally attacking you. But disagreeing alone doesn’t mean your opinions aren’t being heard. They’re being heard and they’re being disagreed with. It’s when people take that disagreement too far that the problems arise. That’s when the moderation should step in and it should be unbiased.

I’m on another site that has very lax moderation, and “gang ups” happen all the time. If you express an opinion that the majority of users there don’t like, you’ll get all kinds of comments like “fuck you”, “stop posting your shitty opinions”, etc. but that’s allowed because the moderation there is so lax. I’m not sure why I’m still a member there…

And I don’t give a rat’s ass how unpopular my opinions may be, I’ll keep posting them, but I certainly understand how one may be unmotivated to if they continually feel ganged up on for doing so. I can still remember the old days when everyone jumped down my throat because I said I didn’t get flu shots! Even worse was the person who called me a “spoiled brat” because my parents never forced me to eat food I didn’t like! Amazing the kind of crap you remember after 8 years of being on this site…

@jca I’ve noticed this as well. That seems to be the one topic that gets treated differently from all the others.

Fluther is in the main a thoughtful, moral place unlike much of the internet which frankly, makes me despair of the human race at times. It is not a safe space, we shine a pretty bright light on the views that are expressed here but some views thrive best in the shadows.

This is one of the last places that’s not a toxic, troll infested cesspool.

@ARE_you_kidding_me Amen. It’s what makes it different from other places. Yes there are places one can go to and try to voice and opinion and it’s a free for all. Like twitter. You can go on there and voice your opinion on anything. But be prepared to be pounded on no matter what side of the fence you are on. Or even if you are trying to be neutral someone will pick a fight with your. There has been on occasion that I have posted information correcting someone’s misinformation and I have been called a ton of things for seeming to back up someone I can’t stand. My biggest pet peeve is misinformation. No matter who it is about. Even misinformation about people I detest. Like Trump.

The reason is, because it makes a case for him to claim “Fake News”. I tried to explain to people I don’t like him but when he gets drawn and quartered, I would like the information to be reputable. But I don’t defend him too hard, since he is the King purveyor of “Fake News”, and doesn’t question incorrect information from stations that support him. I don’t defend the Truth for his sake, but rather for the sake of Truth. So many lies and disinformation going around that I have to give it a go to correct it where it is. People don’t have to make up lies about anyone. Often times the truth is worse, but lies make you wonder about the accuracy of actual true stories.

I don’t feel safe here. Bullies are in control of fluther now. They can say whatever they please with no consequences. That’s the opposite of a safe space.

^ditto

@tinyfaery and @jonsblond Where you have examples you should report them.