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mazingerz88's avatar

If Obama was as erratically dangerous as Trump with the issue between Turkey and the Kurds what would the Republicans have done?

Asked by mazingerz88 (28696points) October 8th, 2019 from iPhone

As asked. Thanks.

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28 Answers

janbb's avatar

Lindsey Graham, who is usually Trump’s puppet, was harshly critical of this move yesterday. I think they need to take Trump’s phone away.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Graham’s initial assessment of Trump is just bearing predictable fruit. The right is every bit as aware as the rest of us of the likely consequences with an ill tempered volatile know nothing as our head of state.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Not at all. Obama was reluctant to keep American troops, in harms way, for nothing. To his credit, Trump has followed suit. Although he would have been called feckless, and unworthy of leadership, by a republican lead congress….

janbb's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I don’t know all the ins and outs but apparently the Kurds are our allies and have helped greatly in the fight against ISIS. If we abandon them now, we are leaving an ally to their fate against an invader of their territory. I’m the most pacifist person I know, but even I don’t believe you shoot a friend in the back on a whim.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Mitch McConnell & Lindsey Graham are both about to pass out. Even Fox News is freaking out. One of the things that ALWAYS made America Great was our ability to LEAD & our passion for NEVER abandoning our allies!!! In my opinion, trump is in the process of committing mass murder by turning our back on the Kurds. He’s NOT going to be happy until he brings the crazy onto our land!!!

Now, to your question, the right would be screaming to high heaven IF Obama had made such a decision without notifying the State Department!!!

elbanditoroso's avatar

This is what happens when you have children playing an adult game.

In three years, Trump has done more harm to foreign policy than any time since the Spanish American war.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@janbb . Trump had full awareness of the Kurdish forces , and their role within the Syrian conflict. The US, was playing a large role supporting, and training the Kurds. We were also backing air support. The Kurds havelost thousands of troops, and without US backinng, that will have to withdraw from some if the conflict. Giving ISIS strength to retaine order. This is not a good thing. This WILL lead to a recollection, of ISIS forces. I’m not a fan, of keeping boots on the ground, but this will help ISIS, and hurt American interests, in the region.

Right, or wrong, this will help ISIS.

janbb's avatar

@MrGrimm888 So it sounds like we’re in agreement which did not sounds like your first statement at all.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@MrGrimm888 using “trump” and “awareness” in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

seawulf575's avatar

Let’s see…Obama got us into Syria, fighting alongside al-Qaida. Eventually he gave them enough training and arms that some of them broke off and formed ISIS. We have been there ever since. You mean erratically dangerous like that?

mazingerz88's avatar

^^Oh just move on from your Obama Derangement Syndrome. Tell your Lord Putin the tactic is pathetic.

LadyMarissa's avatar

If memory serves me correct, we wouldn’t have been there at all IF Baby Bush hadn’t lied about the “weapons of mass destruction” & went in after Saddam Hussein. Admittedly Hussein was a tyrant, but he did manage to keep al-Qaeda in check. There wouldn’t have been an ISIS IF Bush had left Iraq alone!!!

MrGrimm888's avatar

@janbb. We are in agreement. Sort of. The Kurds are our allies, because they have been fighting to form their own country. They seem like good people. ISIS, is indeed bad. But I think that America shouldn’t be involved. Let others in the region deal with ISIS. If anything Europe should be the western power, doing the heavy lifting. It’s their shores, that are being bombarded by refugees, of the war in Syria. America can’t be involved in EVERY tragedy, and we aren’t. If America really cared about other people, we would be in military conflicts throughout Africa. Where genocide, and famine, are caused by warlords. Or, we would be at active war, with North Korea, or China etc.

The world, is full of atrocities. In most cases, the civilian population is larger, than their oppressors. Those populations, should rebel, like the American colonies did, and take their land.

The Kurds, are going something akin, to what the Americans did, in the revolutionary war. With a key difference. They are taking advantage of a civil war, in hopes of forming “Kurdistan.” THAT’S what they’re really fighting for. And I hope that they succeed. But ISIS, nor the Syrian conflict, have anything to do with the US. I don’t want our men dying for someone else’s problems.

In addition, Russia is also involved, in Syria. With all the fighting, we could end up accidentally at war with Russia. If that happens, potentially hundreds of millions of people will die.

I agree, that ISIS, should be stopped. But who gave the US, the authority to stop them?

The Turks, Saudi Arabia, Israel and other ME countries, have formidable armies. Let them deal with ISIS. They would’ve had to anyway, eventually. The Turks want a “buffer zone,” between them, and the conflicts.
That’s why they want the US, out. So they can accomplish this. If ISIS has it’s way, it will take over most of the ME. So. It would be in all middle eastern countries’ best interest to stop ISIS, before they’re on their doorstep. Even Russia, would be in potential danger, eventually. Yes. They are mainly there, to help Assad, take back Syria. But, they would have to come to the conclusion that ISIS, is a threat. And they are more than capable of dealing with them. ISIS, will not be a threat to America, other than by threatening US interests, in oil trade.

The ME, has been a battle ground, for one reason or another, since, practicality forever. That won’t change, even of the the US, helps defeat ISIS.

If ISIS dried up today, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, would still be at odds.

@seawulf575 . Obama gave the rebels small arms, and some air support. That’s it. He didn’t give them antiaircraft weapons, or the big stuff, because he learned from what we did by helping Osama, against Russia. You either don’t know what you are talking about, or are just going after Obama again, when Obama made a good decision.
The main US weaponry, and machinery, being used by ISIS, is left over from GW’s Iraq war. It was equipment left there, for Iraq, to protect itself. Cut the BS…

@LadyMarissa . That’s an extremely valid point… And backs my point. When the US, gets involved in the ME, nothing good comes from it.

seawulf575's avatar

@mazingerz88 It is always hilarious when you folks on the left get wound up. You opened the Obama can of worms with your question. When I make factual statements about him you don’t like, you get personally insulting. Has that tactic ever worked…has it ever stopped the facts from coming?

seawulf575's avatar

@LadyMarissa Iraq was, in my opinion, a horrible waste of time. I said so at the time. But Syria was an entirely different animal. Assad was a douchebag. He had protesters that were going after more freedoms and better economic conditions. Assad responded by killing a bunch of them. A bunch of soldiers defected from the military to form up an opposition force. That was pretty much the start of the civil war. Please note that nothing in there had anything to do with Iraq. Al-Qaida members joined up with the rebels. This was the group that Obama decided to back. At a time we were still in the war on terror and al-Qaida, he decided to join with them. After giving them a bunch of training and arms, a group of these terrorist/soldiers broke off from al-Qaida to form up ISIS. We’ve been locked in there ever since.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Wrong….Check YOUR facts…

mazingerz88's avatar

@seawulf575 Answer the question without showing your Obama Derangement Syndrome. It’s ok. Really.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@seawulf575, there is this thing called the internet where you can research things.

“The Obama administration began surveillance missions on the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant’s positions in Syria in September 2014. On 22 September 2014, the U.S., Bahrain, Jordan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) began to attack ISIL forces inside Syria…..The U.S. missile strike on Shayrat Airbase on 7 April 2017 was the first time the U.S. became a deliberate, direct combatant against the Syrian government

Can you make any deductions from that? No? OK then. In 2014 the US went to battle against ISIS in Syria. Not Syria itself.
It didn’t go to war with SYRIA until 2017. Can anyone explain to him what that means?

flutherother's avatar

Following Trump’s phone call with President Erdogan Turkey has launched an offensive in north east Syria to clear the area of Kurdish militias, the same fighters who were our “boots on the ground” during the war against ISIS. No wonder they are saying they have been stabbed in the back. Trump clearly doesn’t know what he is doing but worse, he doesn’t listen to those who do.

janbb's avatar

@flutherother It is indefensible!

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III you’re right…internet searches are easy

Gee…that one tells me the US secretly trained 1200 Syrian rebels to go against Assad…not ISIS…and that they went on to become ISIS.

Oh my goodness…there’s another one! Huh. And they have the German Magazine Der Speigel in on it too!

WTF? This one even has declassified materials from back in 2012 that show we were already training these folks! Amazing.

mazingerz88's avatar

trump must be really worried about not doing Putin’s bidding @flutherother.

This is the second time he wanted to do this after talking to Erdogan and the first time he listened to Mattis. The guardrails are off and this is the result. A reality TV show host abandoning American allies to potential death! trump is absolutely nuts!

But then what else is new?

Dutchess_III's avatar

The first link says that some US trained Syrians defected to ISIS. And? Oh wait. I gotta get paranoid. The US were deliberately training men they knew were ISIS sympathizers. Is that your point? Mkay.

The second says it’s hard to prove. “It is tough to conclusively prove whether or not ISIS fighters were the individuals being trained by the US in Jordan.”

The third is conjecture.

And we weren’t training them for ISIS. They defected after they were trained. Your sources specify that clearly.

Special note: the above Fox News video, from 2013, references the existence of a US-led training program in Jordan aimed at strengthening the Syrian opposition against Assad, which some have alleged might have equipped ISIS fighters with the tactics they are currently using against the US-trained Iraqi Army.”

Once again, all you have is a whole lot of paranoid assumptions.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Many conservatives don’t trust anything or any one unless they want to. What does that say about their upbringing? Were they lied to a lot? Were they let down too often?

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Most conservatives, are religious. So yes. They were lied to….

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III doesn’t that statement also apply to liberals these days? In fact…doesn’t it apply to everyone? Trust is something that is earned. We don’t give it away easily. Sometimes we give people “the benefit of the doubt”, but that is really nothing more than watchful trust….in other words, you really don’t trust them but you will give them a chance and will watch how they act.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Exactly @MrGrimm888. Lied to from an early age, and taught not to deny their logic and their senses and to believe in impossible things.
It isn’t “watchful trust.” It’s paranoia to the point you can’t even think straight @seawulf575.

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