General Question

crazyguy's avatar

Is there a correlation between Biden's chances and the battle against covid-19?

Asked by crazyguy (425points) 1 week ago

With the CNN and MSNBC slant that Trump’s actions and/or inactions have contributed to the covid-19 intensity, it seems logical to assume that any good news on that front is bad news for Biden’s chances, and vice versa. Given that assumption, do you think Biden’s camp is rooting for things to get worse?

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71 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

No, because Biden/Harris don’t think that way, unlike Trump and his cohorts like you that think the only way to achieve greatness is by putting others down.

Future President Biden would much rather have Donald Trump to be honest with the American people and to show some real leadership as we go through this deplorable episode.

crazyguy's avatar

zenvelo: what Biden/Harris think is immaterial; it is what the voters think. Historically a general sense of well-being has led to the incumbent staying in power. So, I guess, you can address my question in two ways:

1. A stock market boom does not mean that there is a general sense of well-being.
2. The stock market boom has nothing to do with Biden’s chances.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Trump had a chance to excel and lead in COVID, back around February or March. He blew it royally.

I think that, at this point, nothing Trump could do would be able to address his earlier leadership deficit. Trump simply has no credibility at all – he made things up twice about potential cures, and he has misstated (understated) the seriousness of COVID. And he has told his agencies to lie.

So even the truth were wonderful, no one but Trumpies is going to believe it, because of the Trump propensity for stretching the truth.

Biden is the beneficiary of Trump’s shitty leadership.

crazyguy's avatar

elband: The question is if there is unexpected great news on covid-19 does that help or hurt Biden’s chances?

stanleybmanly's avatar

There’s no need to root for bad news. Trump wears this disease in all its extent and severity. Americans have short attention spans, but the current catastrophe is only going to accelerate and the enormity of the consequences from Trump’s unconscionable lying will highlight this election beyond any campaign brilliance possible on the part of Biden. This is the one lie from the tens of thousands that is going to bite the fool irreparably in the ass.

chyna's avatar

@crazyguy Your words “CNN and MSNBC’s SLANT” is very offensive to me. When trump calls the virus a hoax, says that although 200,000 have died in 7 months and 6.5 million have had the virus, but that its getting better, that is not a SLANT! It’s truth. And he promoted non-mask wearing rallies. May he rot in hell.

ragingloli's avatar

Well, that is why drumpf decided to reroute covid data to a private contractor, instead of the CDC, so he can manipulate and falsify the data.
Notice how the official numbers started to drop the moment that change happened?
It is no coincidence.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@crazyguy “what Biden/Harris think is immaterial”

Then why this question? – “do you think Biden’s camp is rooting for things to get worse?”

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
JLeslie's avatar

Trump’s inaction in January and February significantly helped Biden. This change of support for Trump, or rather away from Trump, happened back in March and April.

I have a lot of Republican friends, and the ones who work in or with hospitals that were hard hit decided then Trump was incompetent. They have also told their relatives what they witnessed and don’t listen to Fox News anymore and don’t vote for Trump. They also have woken up to the encouragement Trump gives to fringe groups like QAnon, which my friends refer to as Christ on a cracker people. Again, these are Republican friends of mine. They are all Catholic and in Michigan. Swing state.

Even if covid disappeared tomorrow, my friend who works in a Detroit area administrative office on a medical center campus will never forget the dead bodies being brought out to the refrigerated trailers because there were too many to store in the morgue. That was the view from her office window for a few weeks. Or, that when she first asked if they should or could wear masks when they go on rounds with the doctors (back in March) she was told “no, we don’t want the patients to be worried.” Trump holds some responsibility for that in their eyes, and blames Republicans for going along with fringe groups that spew non-science garbage.

She knows we are better at treating covid now than 6 months ago, so that means some of the people who died didn’t have to. She knows countries that acted early have had very few deaths, and America had WEEKS of warning and time to learn from other countries and did next to nothing to prepare.

The damage is done.

Plenty of people still support Trump though. They are fatalists I guess. They say things like the virus will get you sooner or later.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I will honestly say that I think politicians, are willing to do almost anything to help their cause.
However. This question could be interpreted, as saying that the DNC, thinks only Trump voters are dying from the pandemic. Which is obviously not the case.

Trump appears to have downplayed the effects of the pandemic, to make himself seem to be doing a good job. On the surface, it seems Trump values his appearance of being a good leader, regardless of how many Americans die.

Another aspect to consider is that there will apparently be a rushed/unproven vaccine available just in time for the election….

Coincidence?

In addition. The 180,000 dead, cannot be brought back. Trump is the boss. Heavy is the head, that wears the crown. He should be ultimately held responsible for his actions. In this case. He is DEFINITELY responsible for the current status of the US.

That is where people should see, his inability to be POTUS.

Would a larger death toll, help Biden? If a business is failing, the first step is to get a new leader. Trump has failed to handle most situations. So. Bring in someone else.

It’s a very simple concept, to grasp.

If Trump was managing a McDonald’s, he’d be “fired” by now….....

Come on…...

crazyguy's avatar

@kritiper So if covid-19 were to magically disappear next week, you don’t think there will be any impact on the election?

@stanleybmanly My question does not say whether good things will happen or they won’t. It just asks if they do, will that help or hurt Biden?

@chyna I am not trying to determine whether Trump lied or told the truth. My question simply is: “Is Biden helped or hurt by good news on the coronavirus front?”

@ragingloli Once more I am not trying to debate Trump’s actions (or in-actions). ALL I am asking is whether Biden is helped or hurt by good news on the coronavirus front.

@Darth_Algar That question is to make it clear what I think is happening. Biden knows full well that if covid-19 magically goes away, and if the economy roars back next month he will probably lose NY in addition to all other states except California and Massachussets. Therefore, his camp is hoping like hell that that won’t happen.

@JLeslie I know you to be a good reader and interpreter of questions before you answer. In this case, however, you have missed the thrust of my question. I am not blaming or excusing Trump for what he did or didn’t do. All I am asking is whether good news is bad for Biden and is he therefore rooting for bad news?

@MrGrimm888 You almost answered my question when you said: “Would a larger death toll, help Biden? If a business is failing, the first step is to get a new leader.” But not quite. The question is what you asked, but did not answer.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^I feel that I answered your question. But. You weren’t happy with the answer.
I am.
It’s just my opinion.
Take it, or leave it….

JLeslie's avatar

No. No one wants bad news.

My point was good news now won’t hurt Biden, no reason to root for bad news.

I want Biden to win and I’d be thrilled if covid disappeared or if we got it under control so well that most everything was back to normal.

elbanditoroso's avatar

If there were verifiable great news in a COVID vaccine (i.e. something not from Trump, but from people who have scientific objectivity), I imagine the Biden would be cheering on the good news and trying to ensure that all people, not just the rich, will get the vaccine early.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie Do you realize if that happened, Biden would have no chance?

@elbanditoroso The CDC director and Fauci work for Trump, so would you believe them?

AlaskaTundrea's avatar

No, unexpected good news isn’t going to hurt Biden or, for that matter, help Trump. What you don’t quite seem to grasp is that the majority of people out there have listened to his promises and failures to deliver so often that there is doubt on just about anything he proclaims. Trump has been his own worst enemy this go round, even more so than he was in ‘16.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy People would still be upset 200,000 people died. That businesses had to close. That people were laid off. That states have serious financial problem with loss of tax revenue. That Trump gives energy to White Supremacists and groups like Q. That Trump cut taxes on the rich while they were enjoying big gains in the stock market and we had a huge deficit and did nothing to prepare the country for disasters financially when he could. Republicans talk about individuals being financially responsible for themselves, being Dave Ramsay oriented with paying bills, and Trump has done the opposite for the financial well being of our country.

crazyguy's avatar

@AlaskaTundrea You forget about the voter’s famous short-term recall: what have you done for me lately?

@JLeslie I agree that some people would still be upset. The majority will be so wrapped up in euphoria they will forget.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Euphoria? By November it will probably be 300,000 dead, most of them preventable with a modicum of acknowledgement and countermeasures on the part of our fool. Many of those tombstones along with the destruction of tens of millions of jobs and businesses amount to a rather stark answer from to “what has Trump done for me lately?”

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I think the people who would forget already don’t think Trump did anything wrong. They are completely clueless about how other countries around the world handled the virus. They cling to examples of countries with similar ways of thinking and yet they still don’t even know the details. Like Sweden, the health officials regret they didn’t protect older citizens better in the beginning, people have been asked to distance all along, they canceled large events like concerts and sports games. People in America seem to think Sweden just lets the virus run wild and everything is fine.

Taiwan masked up immediately and used quarantines and never closed businesses and sports teams are playing (although I think crowds are limited) schools have been open and they have had 7 deaths to date. SEVEN! Why aren’t pro-life Christians looking at that? Remember the accusation of the Obama death panels that were total bullshit?

People need to start thinking for themselves. Look around. Republican states have put in mask orders. Democratic led counties have gone back to school in many places. In my state it is a Republican led county that has delayed in-person school because there are so many cases. People have to stop with the politics. When push comes to shove most of our mayors and governors cave when they see people dying and hospitals overburdened. Most of them do have some sort of conscious thank goodness.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Fauci has ten times the credibility of the CDC director. Fauci seems honest.

AlaskaTundrea's avatar

Even short term memory has its limits, crazyguy, when friends and neighbors are dying or have died. I do think we all tend to be that way, short term memory, but it isn’t like covid is going away, hence we won’t be able to forget it, dang it all, for awhile. I wish, I desperately wish that Trump had been right for a change and it had gone away when it warmed up but, well, we’re heading into fall and eventually cooling temps again. How’d that work for us? I hope no one you know or loved has died or even been sick with covid. I’m not so lucky, nor are those who have faces missing from their dinner table, so, no, people won’t be forgetting.

stanleybmanly's avatar

The correct assessment would be that the correlation between the BUNGLING of the battle against covid 19 and Biden’s election is both pronounced and by now unavoidable. Trump blew it, and this time there’s no lying his way around it. Election day will dawn with him assured the heartfelt gratitude of the nation’s undertakers.

crazyguy's avatar

@stanleybmanly Let us see: 199,000 through today + 480 X 55 = just over 225,000, assuming today’s death rate prevails until the election. If the death rate continues to go down we may not even hit 225,000. And remember the premise of my question: “if good things happen…”

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie I agree that people have to think for themselves. So if a young person does not live with or see any at-risk people, s/he can choose to be careless just like my wife and I can choose to exercise every conceivable caution. Closing down the beaches in California was just the opposite of the right thing to do. Swedish people keep their distance from each other naturally – call it northern European behavior. So social distancing came naturally to them.

Some of the early poster children of the battle against the virus were South Korea and Germany. Have you checked on them lately?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@crazyguy Trump has utterly FAILED on controlling the virus and I know you don’t understand but New Zealand has had 24 deaths from COVID-19 (September 15th 2020 NZ has one 60th the population of US) that converts to 1,440 deaths for the USA population, instead we have 194,000 !

You don’t want to see that so . . . . . . . what is your answer for his FAILURE !!

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I never thought completely shutting down beaches was necessary.

Back to Taiwan—SEVEN deaths. Why not just follow their model? No business closures. Schools open. They just wore f**king masks in the beginning and stopped very high risk behaviors that could cause a super spreader. They quarantined with strict measures. The young people didn’t want to risk harming their older citizens, they didn’t feel their freedom was taken away. By protecting each other they wound up with more freedom than what we see in America now. If some teens want to get together in Taiwan in small groups I’m sure they do. There is almost no risk there because there is almost no virus.

South Korea also used masks, contact tracing, and quarantine. I think they have 350 deaths. Has it gone up much more than that?

Why are you ok with locking older people away? In America we are one of the best countries at accommodating ADA. We don’t hide away our children or adults who have disabilities or deformities we do our best to help them be a part of society. Yet, so many people seem to feel fine saying to someone 60 years old with high blood pressure that they should stay home for two years, or whatever time this will take, instead of people making a small sacrifice for a while to drive down the covid infection in the population.

You’re new here so you might not know I live in an over 55 city of 120,000 people. Over 80% of the population is over 60, the median age here is 70! Almost my entire city is higher risk, and yet I still have people around me who won’t wear masks when they go shopping. Despicable.

stanleybmanly's avatar

“If good things happen…” it will
be bad news for Biden? That’s the question? Therefore the question isn’t whether Trump fkd up, but is Biden wishing more death and destruction to gain the Presidency. And the answer is that whether Biden wants the disease to continue to ravage the nation is irrelevant. What matters is that unlike his opposition he did not contribute to the severity of the outbreak through deliberate lying, deceit, inaction and downplaying of looming catastrophe. It isn’t the Biden campaign that will carry responsibility for the carnage of this epidemic.

chyna's avatar

@crazyguy Not that it matters at all, but @JLeslie lives in an older community, but she isn’t old. So she has the unique perspective of being younger, but understanding the fears and concerns of the elderly.

JLeslie's avatar

:) I’m 52.

crazyguy's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I am not certain why you picked New Zealand to compare with the US. You could have picked almost any other country. While it is no secret that the virus can be stopped by a “total shutdown”, the problem is the economic impact. I know you would NEVER estimate the value of a life, but I got news for you: safety decisions are often based on the cost of a fix over millions of items versus the value of a few extra deaths.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy Let’s say everyone started masking up and our case numbers went way way down in the country. Do you think that hurts Trump’s chances of being re-elected?

MrGrimm888's avatar

Let’s take another view. Hypothetically. Let’s say Biden wins. But. The death toll keeps climbing, during his rule.
How would that help the Democrats?...
None of this conspiracy theory, makes sense…..

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@crazyguy New Zealand because the President there took action instead of letting tens HUNDREDS of thousand die while saying it was a Wuhan Flu and doing nothing to stop the spread ! That is why I made the choice !

With minimum economic impact That is why I made the choice !

Without buying stock in a Big Pharma and then being “Shill” saying Big Pharma med’s were miracle drug. That is why I made the choice !

So @crazyguy you’re a Trump fanboy that is why you made your choice. Stay healthy and stop being a Trump fanboy !

Tropical_Willie's avatar

For a country with 5,000,000 people Neew Zealand has:

Cases
1,801

Recovered
1,694

Deaths
24

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy By the way, you are right that some illness and deaths probably are going to have to be accepted. I know there are some Democrats out there who sound like the risk of one case or one death is worth closing the whole country. The truth is, every year experts watch contagious disease as it comes towards the US and they know people will get sick and die, and they let it sweep through the population with at most a recommendation for vaccination if we have a vaccine available, like for meningitis or flu.

When a new illness pops up the experts watch to see how lethal and how contagious it is. If it reaches a high enough number they start to take more measures. For H1N1 in 2009 over 700 schools were closed, the government ramped up the PPE stockpiles and also Tamiflu. Churches stopped the handshake and changed communion methods, people were told not to come to church if they didn’t feel well (which I honestly can’t believe people actually put going to church one Sunday over the risk of the health of others to begin with I hope that is not the case). This is not the first time we take some measures. When I was in Nashville this past January/February, schools were close there for flu. The Republicans seem to be acting like we never as a country take measures to slow the spread of disease.

The truth and what is prudent and possible is in the middle. It feels like the news reports every single child that dies from covid at this point. If we did that with flu there would be a child reported every day during fly season on average. The public would go insane. That does not change that we should do everything within in reason to protect people of all ages.

Why not look at best practices. Look to the countries that have the businesses open, life as normal as possible, and very low cases and deaths. My governor, DeSantis, called South Korea the gold standard of testing back in March and April, and he did massive testing in South Florida as soon as he could. I truly believe he wanted to do really good contact tracing, but that seemed to fall apart. He has been wearing a mask since APRIL! On camera he wears a mask all the time, but Fox and MSNBC weren’t and aren’t airing it. He was recommending masks, but would not put in a statewide order, recommending distancing, even said in press conferences months ago a dinner of ten people indoors at one table is higher risk in his opinion, even though ten people was within the recommendations. He said choir with people projecting their voices is probably throwing the virus farther, he would not close all churches but fully supported churches closing or counties and municipalities closing churches and agreed services and mass were higher risk if people could not distance and were together for extended periods.

DeSantis never believed in essential and non-essential he just believed in safer behaviors and reducing risk. I actually generally agree with all of his ideas, the problem is, he did not count on the crazy Q and other groups like them not listening at all and making this into a freedom ride that consists of being in complete denial and defiant against recommendations. He throws meat to the far right for political reasons and that has hurt my state and the people in it. The city next to me almost no one was wearing a mask, it’s a republican area, and they were having a lot of cases. Finally a month ago the chain supermarkets put in mask requirements. People who live in that city work in our stores and medical offices.

The way to make this all better is for it to stop being political and as a country give a damn about each other and ourselves and look around the world at what is working and try it. we need a national buy in.

Scare tactics like saying the Democrats are trying to stop religious practices, that garbage has got to go. The Pope just started doing mass again in person. He wasn’t freaking out that government was trying to rid the planet of Catholicism, he made statements asking the world to care about their own health and the health of others and to think about the weakest and most vulnerable among us. By contrast you have groups here in the US saying covid is fake and an excuse to secularize the nation and turn us into Cuba.

You seem reasonable, I ask you to push back on the extremes of your party, I push back on mine. When your friends write 99% survival rate! Do the numbers. They don’t do the math. If 25% of the population gets covid in a 12 month period that would be 850,000 deaths! That is not a typical flu. I think the death rate is more like .4—,6% so more like 400,000 deaths, but I am just estimating from the data I have analyzed. When they say some deaths are being counted as covid that shouldn’t be, I say there is always so plus or minus, and later it will get reviewed and adjusted also most, similar to flu deaths. It will not be that 50% of the deaths were counted wrong though, the fact will still be around 200,000 people died from covid. Go the next step, do the math, understand how the data is reported, and how it has been reported historically.

crazyguy's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I’ll try and give a reasonable answer to your vitriol.

Let me list the things New Zealand did in combating the virus (see https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203):

1. ”..a stringent countrywide lockdown (designated Alert Level 4) on March 26.
2. “After 5 weeks, and with the number of new cases declining rapidly, New Zealand moved to Alert Level 3 for an additional 2 weeks, resulting in a total of 7 weeks of what was essentially a national stay-at-home order.”
3. “We also began instituting border-control policies to delay the pandemic’s arrival.”
4. “New Zealand needs to plan to respond to resurgences with a range of control measures, including mass masking, which hasn’t been part of our response to date.” (italics are mine)

Now compare the New Zealand response to the US, keeping in mind the differences in our governments.

1. Trump imposed a travel ban on Wuhan – in spite of being called a xenophobe and a racist.
2. He also imposed a travel ban on Europe.
3. He let the states call the shots on lockdowns and economic shutdowns _ could he have imposed a “nationwide lockdown”?
4. Just like New Zealand he did not encourage masking.

New Zealand gets about 5 million international tourists per year. The vast majority of them come through one airport – Auckland. The US gets about 80 million tourists per year and they come in through dozens of airports. Even you can put aside your blinders for a moment and realize the humongous differences between New Zealand and the US.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump let any US citizen; there spouse and friends come in WITHOUT QUARANTINE ! from China.

First rule is to quarantine didn’t happen. None of his travel bans controlled the people once they got into the country.

Disbanded Pandemic response Team (‘cause he knew there would never be a Pandemic).

Spin Doctor trick of blame the the Governors after he repeatedly said ” . . . nothing more than the flu!” And knew how deadly it was.

I’m not blind but you sure have on your FANBOY outfit (nice orange make-up)

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie wow! I have finally made it through your looong post. You made so many points in your write-up that addressing each one will be hard. But I’ll give it a shot.

1. Whether the Democrats like it or not, we DO place a value on a human life.
2. You say: “The Republicans seem to be acting like we never as a country take measures to slow the spread of disease”. That is not true. Republican governors did shut down states. However, long-term shutdowns are no answer.
3. You say: “That does not change that we should do everything within in reason to protect people of all ages.” I guess we can argue about “within reason”.
4. Not just deSantis. Most attempts at contact tracing draw a blank at some point in the chain. I think the problem is airborne (as distinct from large particles) spread from some unknown carrier.
5. You mention the crazy Q and the Republicans. But you never mention the BLM protests that had upwards of 15 MILLION people yelling and screaming. Alos, please note that New Zealand has not yest resorted to “mass masking”.
6. I am not a religious man. But I can see some parallels between restrictions on churches but not on BLM protests. Can’t you?
7. JL, I share your sentiment about being reasonable. We have all got to be able to converse. Dialog is beautiful; even if neither of us can convince the other, we’ll both walk away with more understanding. I am not a “parrot republican”. I do not like Republicans’ position on gun control and have some mixed feelings about abortions. In fact, believe it or not, in 2016 I campaigned for Bernie! What I like about Trump is not that he is a Republican (although some Reopublicans have disowned him) but that he does stuff that needs to be done regardless of the political repercussions.

crazyguy's avatar

@Tropical_Willie The amount of flak Trump got for just banning travel by non-US citizens from Wuhan was unbelievable. But, of course, now, in hindsight, you wish he had gone even further! You Dems are truly amazing!

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy Point number 2, I was talking about before covid. A lot of Republicans I know have total AMNESIA that we have taken measure before to slow the spread of flu, and I mean recently, I’m not talking about 1917–18.

The thing about the protests is most protests people wore masks and they were outside. I was watching Fox News (rare for me) and they were interviewing a NYC doctor and asking her about protests and cases and she said they have not seen an uptick of cases from the protests most likely because most people were wearing masks, and the host of the show wanted to shut her up and move on to the next topic.

I’ve always been fine with churches staying open, I just wasn’t in favor of crowded churches. No one was stopping preachers from preaching. We have zoom, Facebook live, it is nothing like when a government makes religion illegal. People need to stop being so paranoid.

Every exposure is another chance of catching covid. People who say “if I can go to the supermarket I can go to church or go to the nail salon.” Ok, well the nail salon might be the place you catch it. You have to eat, you don’t have to get your nails done. Supermarkets you are moving through the store, a nail salon you are facing the same person for 30 minutes straight a foot away. Now salons have plexiglass barriers or everyone wears masks and salons are open again. Just imagine if we had started getting ready for the virus in February. Nothing would have needed to close in March.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@crazyguy if and when Trump loses in November it’s a good guess that his disastrous handling of the covid outbreak will catch most of the blame. The disease is a national emergency. Yet Trump abrogated his responsibilities and critical decisions regarding the pestilence to the piecemeal judgements of individual states with stunning and irreparable consequences. The grim failure in the efficacy of his experiment of states rights versus the requirement of Federal leadership is stark and undeniable. He guessed wrong and lied about it (as usual) with predictable consequences. It’s just that simple and Biden need only beat the fool senseless with the truth of it. CNN and MSNBC are not alone in their claim that Trump dropped the ball.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie I think you agree with me that we cannot stay shut down. As long as you have even one positive in a community, there is a chance of spread. I agreed with Trump’s modified stance to let the governors make the call (remember initially he wanted to force ALL states to follow CDC (or his own) guidelines, but he backed away from that dictatorial position quickly. Most governors followed their own numerical guidelines. Unfortunately, there were complications (some protest videos, especially in the beginning, showed few masks and people close together and yelling), and the number of cases started to rise.

Let me ask you one key question here. How many studies have you seen on the link between the protests and uptick in cases? I have seen only one and that was done by the NBER (a bunch of economists!). That is one clue about the complicity of the media and the scientific establishment in refusing to find any links. In New York, contact tracers were specifically instructed to not ask positives if they had attended protests!

As far as “essential businesses” go, why did California allow liquor stores and cannabis shops to stay open?

crazyguy's avatar

@stanleybmanly You say” “Trump abrogated his responsibilities and critical decisions regarding the pestilence to the piecemeal judgements of individual states with stunning and irreparable consequences.”

Let me refer you to https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/why-theres-no-national-lockdown/609127/

You may want to read the entire article in order to be better informed. Here is one sentence: “Even if the president desired to take stronger action, America’s national-level response would be hampered in part by its federalist system. ”

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Which Governors had direct access to CDC and FDA @crazyguy ? They work for old Orange face not the governors. And fifty states and all the territories need info at once, so that is the reason Trump is President to make decisions bu no his decision was to abrogate his responsibilities and critical decisions. And lay blame on people that don’t have his span and control, remember he is suppose to be commander chief. Not your boy no – no. “It was Freddy Jr. fault ! ” I can hear him now

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy The country is not completely shut down and never was. Trump was the one in mid March who said yes he thinks it’s a good idea if Apple and some other retailers shit down like they had done in China. I saw the press interview in real time when someone from the press asked him. SUDDENLY the Republicans really woke up. That’s when the supermarkets really started to be emptied out. On February 28th (I know the date because my parents left town the next day) I bought an extra package of TP and extra pantry food in case I had to quarantine. It was stark the difference between Democrats and Republicans and the awareness of the virus.

You agreed with leaving it to the states. Ok, but do you agree with how the governor of California, Michigan, and New York handled it? Are handling it? Georgia? I think a national policy can include room for governors to oversee their state. My state’s policy allows mayors to oversee their counties and cities.

As far as protests, the first one in MN I agree very few masks, and for a while cable news like MSNBC just defended the protesting without seeming to care people were maskless, and I was right here saying people should wear masks. About a week or so into the protests cable news got on board with the message.

There have been massive protests in NYC, DC, and cities all over America, and those cities and states are not showing increases in cases, most aren’t anyway as far as I know. Like I said, Fox asked about it on a day I was watching and they didn’t like the answer.

Most protests seem to have been calm, masked, and some distancing when possible. For sure you can find situations that people took risks and weren’t compliant with more prudent precautions.

I completely agree with liquor stores staying open. My state loosened liquor laws and I completely agree with it, I’m pretty sure many states have. I don’t drink, so it has nothing to do with me, except that I don’t want a bunch of people withdrawing around me all at once while under the stress of the pandemic.

I disagree with closing a business based on what they sell, it should be based on if they can conduct businesses in a low risk way.

If Trump had been coordinating best practices better, maybe not so many people would have died in NYC. I think Cuomo made a bad decision about sending covid positive nursing home patients back to their nursing homes, but I do understand the dilemma he had. Trump should have had the best minds working on helping to solve that. They should have been thinking about it in January. In our country, we are all Americans, one of our very populated cities was hit hard, the President failed NYC, he can’t just lay it all on Cuomo. That’s what he wants to do though, and part of being able to do it is for him to say governors were responsible for their states. They are responsible, but so is our federal government. It’s stunning to me how quickly people in some states will think of other states as not part of America.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Unfortunately. Liquor stores are “essential.” People who suffer from alcohol withdrawal, could end up taking up valuable hospital beds. So. It makes sense to basically just give up on having to treat the bigger threat….

JLeslie's avatar

^^Like I said, I don’t really think in terms of essential or non-essential. Everyone who owns a business or works for a business, that business is essential for them.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Agreed.
But. Having ICUs stuffed with people in withdrawal, won’t help.

crazyguy's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I have a feeling I am batting my head against a wall here; but I’ll indulge you one last time.

You say “Which Governors had direct access to CDC and FDA”. The answer is ALL OF THEM!
CDC has a hotline telephone number, and the FDA can be contacted by phone or email.

Strauss's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Liquor stores are “essential.”

So are cannabis dispensaries in Colorado!~

Tropical_Willie's avatar

So @crazyguy the governors are in charge of the country and Putin’s puppet it not needed ? ?

Strauss's avatar

@Tropical_Willie One can always hope!

crazyguy's avatar

@Strauss I hope you watched the Biden town hall on CNN. The governors will be more in charge than at any time in our history if Biden pulls a rabbit and wins.

Strauss's avatar

@crazyguy I didn’t see the town hall, but that is in keeping with the idea of a “small-f” federal democratic republic that was envisioned by the founding parents.

edited for typo

MrGrimm888's avatar

@crazyguy . Isn’t that the whole point of having the states, have the general ability to make their own decisions?
Each state votes in people who will have the chance to make things work in the best interests of their population…
There are, of course, federal laws. But. Overall each state, is supposed to be able to do it’s own thing….
Trump wants a dictatorship. Where nothing can overcome his ultimate authority…
That’s certainly not what our founding fathers wanted, and I don’t understand why you/anyone, would want that…

JLeslie's avatar

You all must realize why some people have a view that Trump wants ultimate power and why others feel it’s just the opposite. It really depends what people pay attention to and focus on.

Trump isn’t “interfering” in how governors manage covid at all, except to say he puts his opinions out in the public arena. He isn’t dictating a policy or pushing through laws regarding how states handle covid.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^No.
Trump chastised Puerto Rico (i know it’s a not a state,) for not being prepared for a giant hurricane.
He publicly claims that California is responsible for their seasonal wildfires.
He dispatched a secret police force, in Oregon.
And….He recently blamed most Covid deaths, on blue states…
I could go on.

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 That’s not what I wrote about. You are telling me what you focus on not what Republicans focus on.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^OK. I apologize.

JLeslie's avatar

No apology necessary, I’m just saying a lot of Trump haters can’t see anything outside of their own perspective. I think it helps Trump win.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Understood.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie @MrGrimm888 An entertaining exchange there. Whether Trump lets the states be, or he tries to tell them what to do, he gets the same amount of criticism. Sometimes it is kinda hard to see just what we expect from a President.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Quarantine never happened on his watch, lots of US citizen coming back from China in January February and March!

No quarantine STILL !

crazyguy's avatar

@Tropical_Willie As I think I stated before, I refuse to engage in ANY dialog with you.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I remember when I first came to fluther and the banter used to entertain me a lot too. We had some jellies back then who were unmatched. Lol.

crazyguy's avatar

@JLeslie I really wish Fluther had an “IGNORE” list. Because I have already identified a couple of candidates for it.

JLeslie's avatar

@crazyguy I like the banter.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

So because I’m right . . . . . @crazyguy and you can’t refute my statement you run home crying to you mommy ? ? ?

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