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SQUEEKY2's avatar

If an indictment was to ever happen for one of Trump's many crimes, would he ever face jail time?

Asked by SQUEEKY2 (23029points) January 25th, 2023

I ask this because he has secret service protection for the rest of his days, what would happen to them if he was to face hard time?
My guess would be, he would be under house arrest in Mar a lago with the secret service being his jailers, but that is only a guess.

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169 Answers

filmfann's avatar

He deserves to be in the Tombs, but he’ll end up, at worst, at ClubFed.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Georgia wants to get their “pound of flesh” and I think they will put him behind bars.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That was such an obvious crime @Tropical_Willie but will he really ever see a jail cell?

Zaku's avatar

He should. I’d say the Secret Service detail could be dispensed with once he’s being guarded in prison. Or, perhaps they can toss in some of the agents assigned with him who seemed to end up getting corrupted. As fellow prisoners.

Zaku's avatar

Oh, and by the way, Richard Nixon declined Secret Service protection after he resigned from office.

#WaysNixonWasWayBetterThanTrump

Zaku's avatar

So, reading a couple of articles on the subject, the consensus in them was that Trump will probably end up in a carefully chosen prison, possibly alone in a small building, probably with one bored unhappy Secret Service guard assigned, not in the cell/hut with Trump, who gets to catch up on his reading with almost nothing to do. The judge in each case convicting Trump would get to decide where each sentence would be served, in consultation with the corresponding department of corrections in each state he’s convicted in, and/or a Federal DoC.

NoMore's avatar

I doubt it. You get all the justice you can afford. If he was some hapless clown who got busted for pot, he’d be breaking rocks for 25 years.

seawulf575's avatar

There have been a whole lot of “obvious crimes” by Trump that turned out to be nothing. Remember when he colluded with Russia? I wouldn’t put it past the left to try putting him in jail for some made up charge, but really, what’s the point? I’m a firm believer that there should be one set of laws that govern ALL people, not one set for “us” and one for “them”. But that boat sailed a long time ago. Crimes have been committed by many, many famous people that went unpunished. Some even uninvestigated. And those committed by politicians are the worst. But there have been so many made up charges against Trump that at this point my initial reaction to ANY story about some crime he supposedly committed is to doubt it up front until all the facts come out.

NoMore's avatar

And all he did was encourage an insurrection and steal hundreds of secret documents. Petty misdemeanor. Can’t compare that to a heinous crime against humanity like having a joint in your pocket. Come now @SQUEEKY2

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Or asking a Georgia politician to find votes that would throw the election in his favour oh no crime there.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Tangerine Turd didn’t know he was being recorded

Dumb shit ! ! !

smudges's avatar

@seawulf575 But there have been so many made up charges against Trump that at this point my initial reaction…

So would you be apt to call them…umm…“trumped up charges”?

bad, I know…couldn’t resist

JLeslie's avatar

I think if he’s in jail the Secret Service currently protecting him get assigned to someone else.

I’ve said all along I really doubt he is going to go to jail, but I’ve been wrong before. I’m not feeling like he will even be convicted of anything. We’ll see.

LadyMarissa's avatar

Just because 45 says the charges aren’t true, it doesn’t mean that they aren’t true. The man lied over 50K times while in office. He also swore he paid his taxes, but that was the biggest HOAX of all!!! He paid MORE taxes to CHINA than he did to the US. IF you look closely, China & Russia are in bed together, so I wouldn’t discount the so called Russia hoax too fast!!!

LadyMarissa's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I’ve lost ALL hope of seeing him go to jail!!! IF he ever did, that wus would NEED the Secret Service to protect his sorry ass!!! Anyway, they wouldn’t be able to put him in a regular Federal prison as there are way too many Proud Boys & Oath Keepers there hoping he’ll show up before they GET OUT!!! I’d buy a ticket to watch that show!!! I wonder if NBC would air it???

smudges's avatar

I’m not feeling like he will even be convicted of anything.

@JLeslie Sadly, I fear the same thing and it makes me sick. Like the morning I woke up and found out he’d been elected and I cried. I was so freakin’ embarrassed for the US.

Entropy's avatar

I think your guess about house arrest is a good one. There would definitely be complications because of his being a former President. I also think that in order to really pin him down on that, you would need something where the evidence was really incontrovertible.

I’ve told friends to my left and right that there’s a difference between what you “know” and what you can “prove”. Hillary Clinton has committed a litany of crimes. We “know” that. But proving it has proven difficult as many of her associates have been willing to do jail time rather than flip on her.

Likewise, we “know” Trump has done alot of shady shit, before, during, and after his time in the White House. But proving it has been harder. And because he’s now a former President, you don’t want to send him to “jail” (whatever that ends up entailing) without a high bar on quality of evidence AND seriousness of the crime. Otherwise you risk setting a precedent that the next Republican in office should chase their predecessor for minor crimes and convictions.

Every time Democrats do something like end a judicial fillibuster on lower court judges or change a rule, someone warns them “You know, the Republicans will do the same back to you” and then they act surprised and outraged when the Republicans do the same back to them. Example: Merrick Garland. Everyone acted liked the Republicans hadn’t heard Democrats openly saying more than a year before Bush The Lesser’s term ended that if there were a SCOTUS opening, the Democrats would refused to confirm in order to let Bush’s successor pick the justice. No opening came up, but guess what—- Republicans heard them. So at the end of Obama’s term, when he wanted to nominate Garland Democrats pretended to be outraged and shocked that someone would EVER do such a thing!

So if you’re a Democrat prosecutor thinking you’re going to make your career convicting Trump…just remember, Biden was so well known for corruption that his own friends called him the Senator from MBNA. You think DeSantis won’t go after your guy? You better make sure you’ve got the goods as they say. Something special and incontrovertible. Otherwise you’re just escalating the tit for tat.

flutherother's avatar

If Trump had any honour he would not run for office while facing criminal charges but being Trump he may run in the hope of dodging criminal charges by politicising them.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I like the no Russia collusion, nope none at all nothing to see move on regardless of 15 or so indictments people pleading guilty,nope nothing here.
Or Jan 6, just because the words we will march peacefully and patriotically to the capital was used at the very beginning of his speech then things like we can not show weakness ,we must fight like hell,or Rudy stating this will be trial by combat, nope no inciting a riot here, move on.
And asking a Georgia politician to find him votes to throw the election in his favour no crime here move on.
Or lying to the Government about having classified documents, then stating uh the FBI planted them yeah thats it,uh no wait I declassified them with my mind yeah that’s it,oh and they are mine regardless if the Government wants them back no crime here move on it’s all fake .
Not to mention the tax laws the trump organization broke in New York all fake move on.
All fake ,and if you don’t believe that then you’re nothing but a hater yeah thats it, now lets get back to the hunter lap top that is where the real crime is.

seawulf575's avatar

As I said, I’m pretty leery of any claims of his “crimes”. If he actually did all the things he is purported to have done, there would be solid evidence, not made up or doctored evidence. Pick a topic and it just isn’t there. J6? If he actually incited the violence, then why did they have to cut his speech short when they presented it to the J6 committee? He said they were going to protest peacefully and patriotically, yet the speech was cut before he got to that point. It was doctored. The crime that he incited an insurrection? Kinda hard to do when no one was really actually charged with insurrection. The first impeachment? The left claimed a whistleblower said he urged Zelenskyy 8 times to investigate Biden and threatened to withhold aid. He released the transcript and it showed without any doubt that was all a lie. Yet they kept repeating it and based their impeachment on it. They didn’t even cite any actual crimes. The list goes on and on. Since he hit the political scene, the left has been making shit up about him and claiming it is all true. The only crimes he has actually been committed for sure are the ones the left brings up that have to avoid facts to be anything at all.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Remember Trump tells the truth . . . he lied 50,000 while in White House

Loves to grab “pussy” from any female walking by . . ..

Threatened Georgia Secretary of State; he and his family received death threats from the Neo-nazis followers of the Tangerine Turd !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Uh @seawulf575 Now I watched about only ¾ of his Jan 6th speech and at first I heard nothing of peaceful and patriotically I had to start it right at the beginning and it was there less than a minute from the start, and I didn’t hear it again,all I heard after that was we can’t show weakness we have to fight like hell, then of course Rudy saying it will be trial by combat.
Sure sounded to me like he was inciting that crowd.
I know he is your hero but damn sounds like he is guilty .
Another why not just give back the documents, we would have heard nothing if he had just done that,sure sounds like he is guilty.
The Georgia politician recorded that call when he wanted more votes guess fake as well?

flutherother's avatar

@seawulf575 What there is no evidence for are Trump’s claims that the election was rigged and he actually won.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Here is a text of the entire speech that day. Read it for yourself, but do so with the actual honest eyes I know you can have. Then tell me where he urged violence. You have the text, you should be able to give a direct quote by page that says he was urging violence. Yes, you can pull a word or two out that can be made to sound like it, but look at the context. Look at what he is actually saying to the crowd. It isn’t there. But pulling those one or two words out is EXACTLY what the J6 committee did and they would not allow anyone to show the full story. That isn’t justice, it isn’t fairness, its what they do in kangaroo courts in 3rd world nations.

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother Is claiming he won the election a crime?

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 When Trump says he won the election, since it is an outright lie, it should be a crime. It’s propaganda that helps to organize treason and violence. Whether it reaches the bar of being illegal it doesn’t change how incredibly destructive he has been to the country. It’s not just him, there are other players too.

It’s not just one off-handed sentence caught on tape. He willfully planned and executed convincing part of the public the election was fraudulent. Then he sat back and watched the games in the “coliseum” what we call our Capitol building.

kritiper's avatar

Yes but it would entail a low security retirement community type facility instead of your normal and well shown high walled high security prison.

jca2's avatar

I have no doubt that he is guilty, but between politics, the fact that he has never been arrested before (I am guessing about that), and the fact that he is rich, he won’t ever see the inside of a jail cell.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 I am not going to read 15 pages of a speech that made me want to barf when I listened to it the first time,it doesn’t matter if I cherry picked a few choice phrases and as you point out took them out of context like the crazy Trump hater you see me for.
The mob took them out of context that day as well,because they heard words like “we can’t show weakness, and we have to fight like hell” Or Rudy’s little “this will be trial by combat”
Because if he truly wanted them to “protest peacefully” Trump would have called the Mob down when they breached the Capital fence , NOT 3 hours later after they were inside the Capital building where damage was done and people were killed.
Regardless of how innocent you see the Don Father’s speech that day .

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie That is idiotic. Saying he won does not have a straight line to insurrection. Or are you suggesting that when Hillary said she won and that Trump cheated she was urging an insurrection? It was an outright lie so she should be guilty of a crime? How about creating a whole story to try discrediting the newly elected president? Should that be a crime? Stop with the “Trump did it so it must be a crime” garbage. Nothing he said urged any violence. As for planning some action, there is zero evidence of that because it didn’t happen. If you believe it did, show the evidence. It is leftist propaganda…another in a long line of fake claims about him.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You make a claim that Trump incited violence with his speech. When I produce the text of the speech you suddenly can’t be bothered by facts. That pretty much describes the left’s attitude towards Trump from the start. They claimed he colluded with Russia to cheat and win the election in 2016. Yet they based that on research done by Hillary and the Dems using Russian agents as sources. They ignore that fact and treat everything like it is gospel. Yet the massive investigation into it that was done showed it was not true. But the left ignores those facts as well to continue claiming it happened. They try saying it had to be true because there were indictments and some Trump aides were found guilty. But they ignore the facts there too. Those indictments had really nothing to do with any made up Russia/Trump collusion. They were mainly for things that happened before those people got involved with Trump or even claims they lied to the FBI. The left ignores the facts that if any of those indictments had anything to do with collusion the result of the Mueller investigation would not have been to show that no Americans were knowingly involved. How long do you have to ignore facts before you start tripping over the lies?

jca2's avatar

Trump January 6th transcript. This is some crazy, crazy shit, when you actually read it:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/08/politics/trump-january-6-speech-transcript/index.html

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ah but mister @seawulf575 why did the crowd riot that day, if all Orange hair did was preach peace and love what about those facts?
I really don’t want to read 15 pages of a speech I already heard,and listening to it made me want to barf but some how you think I will convert if I read your orange gods drivel.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Well teacher I read 7 pages of it and that was all I could stand for now,I will try and hold my food down tomorrow for the last 8 ,you still wont answer why did the crowd riot then?

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 As far as I know Hillary didn’t question the vote, she questioned Russian hacking (which happened) and other circumstances prior to the vote during the run. She had things to say about our electoral system, and she did win the popular vote. She also did concede after the election that she lost and didn’t file a bunch of idiotic lawsuits (to use your word) nor did she try to egg on violent people to try to physically change the election results.

You do understand why it’s so important not to lie about the vote right? Or, to try to have one man change the voting results of the people? Are you saying Trump didn’t ask Pence not to confirm the vote?

What do you think about the Dominion voting machine lawsuit? I think so far they aren’t suing Trump, they are suing Fox, but Trump definitely was part of the lying chorus.

Are you saying that violence on January 6th wasn’t planned and organized by anyone. Forget Trump, do you think that was just a few tuque people being violent and mobbing the Capitol? It was planned. There is video tape of the planning. Bannon was on the radio encouraging it in the days leading up. Trump told security to let people with weapons in and stop checking “demonstrators” because he wasn’t worried that they would try to hurt him.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 First off the crowd did not riot that day. Some of the crowd did but most did not. But let me ask: Who is Ray Epps? There are many, many videos of him actually inciting the charge at the Capitol. The FBI had him on the top 10 list of suspects…for a couple of days. Then they pulled him off their list of suspects at all. They didn’t bring him in or interview him and they never said why he was and then wasn’t a suspect. The J6 committee did not want to waste any time on him. Yet he was recorded actually planning and inciting the attack the night before and the day of. Now, contrast that with Trump where the claim is he didn’t really say anything that urged violence, but he spoke in code that the crowd understood. Huh. Which one seems like the bigger instigator?

How about those facts? Does that answer your question as to why the crowd may have gotten violent?

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie https://news.yahoo.com/hillary-clinton-maintains-2016-election-160716779.html Not to mention, when did she come out and denounce the Russia Collusion garbage as being based on her own opposition research? She didn’t have to sue…she had the Deep State doing it for her.

I do understand that no one person should be in charge of the results of an election. I also understand that for as long as we have had elections there have been those trying to cheat in them. To deny that is naïve. To question results when there are sketchy things that happen is not unreasonable. To throw the bullshit flag and not just accept potential cheating is not unreasonable. Elections are important, don’t you agree? And don’t you think that they need to be fair?

JLeslie's avatar

Questioning an election and investigating possible fraud is all ok when there is valid reason to do so. Trump filed something like 60 frivolous cases in the courts and promoted the idea that lots and lots of elections had corruption. Most of which was total bullshit. Literal bullshit with no reasoning except his desire to stay president. He implied there were no checks when election offices take careful measure to have bipartisan checks. They follow protocol. He questioned mail-in ballots, something he learned from Republicans going after that for YEARS but Florida it was ok. Lol. How can you not see he didn’t care if he lied or stole the election, and he doesn’t care what it does to the citizenry of our nation. He wanted Pence to not sign off on the vote.

jca2's avatar

and in the written transcript that I linked, he specifically mentions that he wants Pence to go back and decertify the vote. I forgot the exact words he used but it’s in there, I think third paragraph.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

For someone so in love with facts, Ray Epps is a Frightwing scape goat, a person for the Trump lovers to blame.
And yes he was questioned,and dropped as a suspect.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And @seawulf575 I will agree with you the entire crowd did not riot, but hundreds upon hundreds did riot, ones that stayed behind the capital fence were protestors, and others that stayed at the rally were just rally goeres .

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie When Trump is leading in all the polls, leading in all the races until the middle of the night in several states when suddenly Biden jumps some ridiculous amount in the results, you have to ask what really happened. Questioning the election and investigating possible fraud would be entirely appropriate. The only thing that made it inappropriate is that Trump was the one calling it out. As for the 60 court cases, go back an look. They almost all refused to hear the case because they said they weren’t the right venue for the case. That is FAR different than hearing the case and throwing it out. And Trump had FAR more evidence that there were improprieties than Hillary ever had and yet we had to spend 10s of millions of dollars to investigate that claim. I know it is hard for you to acknowledge the inconsistencies in the arguments, but you don’t have facts on your side.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ray-epps-interview-transcript-with-jan-6-panel-to-be-public-at-some-point No big reading so you don’t have to hurt yourself on this one. Videos. Think you can handle a minute and a half of videos? Explain how Ray Epps was NOT inciting things. In fact if you watch right before the first protestors push through the barracade, he whispers into the ear of one of the protestors who then starts pushing at the gates. Ray stands there waving others over to help. The J6 committee said they didn’t pursue anything with him because he didn’t actually enter the Capitol so therefore he didn’t commit any crimes. By that reasoning, neither did Trump. So if Trump can be guilty of “inciting violence” without entering the Capitol, why can’t Ray Epps?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah you’re absolutely right , Epps had as much influence on the crowd as Trump did ,in fact it might all be Epps fault Trump like usual is just innocent the evil left are accusing him of .
I know the real culprit it was Hunter’s lap top.
Maybe Epps should have been investigated more, but he was questioned.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

. . . but whatabout Hillary’s email server . . . .! !

Hillary did it she incited the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers on Twitter !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah, she did it with Hunters lap top!

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 So when Ray Epps told the J6 committee that he was in the front and that he orchestrated it, why is it that they said there was nothing there? Again, your attempts at sarcasm to avoid facts is a weak play.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The mob was there for their orange haired god, NOT Epps why would people listen to him he may have tried to bait people to go in and for that could be guilty of something but the mob went in for Trump and TRump alone.
You make it sound like he was the sole organizer of the entire event, and poor little Don Father was just an innocent victim how could we think him guilty of any of this?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Plus if ole orange hair is as innocent as you claim why did it take three hours before he told the mob to go home, which they did as soon as he told them.
Doesn’t sound like Epps was in charge.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So @seawulf575 not coming back to defend your hero about why it took him three hours to tell the rioters to stand down and go home to which they did sounds like ole orange hair had his thumb on that crowd, but Epps is a great scape goat to blame for the whole thing.
When they questioned Epps he said orchestrate may not have been the correct term to use.
Did he bait some of his fellow rioters to go in maybe and if guilty should be charged .
But to say he was the mastermind is lame for someone so in love with the facts.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 All this goes back to my statement that if Trump did all these crimes there would be solid evidence, not stuff that was made up or doctored. Look at what you just said. Trump is guilty because he didn’t tell the crowd to stand down quickly enough. That constitutes proof to you. Forget that Trump asked, well before the rally, if the Capitol Police needed National Guard as back up for the number of people that were going to show up. Forget that he actually urged the crowd to be peaceful, he obviously spoke in code that only a few people in one part of the crowd would understand. And those people were doing what he told them to do (in code) because he didn’t tell them to stand down for 3 hours. Meanwhile, the guy that was right at the front where the push into the capitol started, the one that had been urging people to storm the capitol, the one that stated in testimony that he orchestrated it…that guy…is just a minor player and probably only misspoke.

This is what you are saying. You are twisting logic into a pretzel to make Trump the bad guy. You are spouting many of the things that those that twisted the evidence and ignored other evidence in the same effort are saying. You are not thinking for yourself but by God, Trump is BAD!!! That’s all that matters. Imagine if you had a justice system that acted like that. And you were accused of a crime, one you didn’t do. And suddenly all the “evidence” against you is as twisted and made up as what happens with Trump just about every single day. Would you consider that a fair justice system? I’d consider it a kangaroo court worthy of a third world nation under the control of some demented dictator.

I have stated many times on these pages that if Trump actually committed a crime then he needs to be held accountable for it. But I say the same thing for everyone. And what I have stated here is numerous examples of how much effort has been spent just trying to smear him as opposed to actually holding him to actual facts and evidence.

I am a firm believer that there needs to be one standard of justice that applies to all. Not one that applies to you and me and one that applies to politicians. Politicians, in my view, need to be held to a higher standard consistently. When the DoJ gives Hillary a pass for her handling of classified materials, try to crucify Trump for his, actually put a sailor in jail for his, and start trying to make excuses for Biden, then there is not one standard of justice. The DoJ has shown they are biased and partisan and are not willing to hold all to the same standard. THAT is what is truly dangerous to our nation.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Do you mean like the mountain of evidence Trump and his lawyers had to prove the election was rigged?
Why ask for the metal detectors to be removed if it was going to be all peace and love?
The second that mob smashed windows he should have called them down ,but no.
The second that mob started chanting hang Mike Pence he should have called them down.
The second they were getting rough with Capital police he should have called them down,but you’re right it’s all Epps fault, Trump is just an innocent victim in all this just another witch hunt to get what you consider the greatest prez there ever was!!

seawulf575's avatar

You mean the mountain of evidence the courts never looked at?

Why ask for National Guard support if he was going to storm the citadel? As for when he heard about stuff, that is a matter of speculation. He wasn’t actually present when the craziness started. He was still speaking and it is likely he didn’t even know about it right away. See? You are buying into the ridiculous story fed to you. Think about it for a few minutes. Trump is there, making his speech. Confrontations with the police at the Capitol start well before he was done speaking (12:53). He wasn’t close enough to see anything…he’s still a couple of miles away. Pushing past the barricades started about half an hour after he got done with his speech (speech done at 1:13, barricades breached at 2:00). Oh, BTW, that happened where Ray Epps was standing right after he whispered into someone’s ear and that person started rushing the barricades right afterward. Secret Service evacuated Pence and Pelosi (2:13). Do you believe they would have let Trump walk into a riot? No. So they had to evacuate him. That took some time. At 2:26 Trump reached out to some senators trying to get a hold of Pence and was told he had already been evacuated. At 2:38 Trump tweeted out that the people should “Support our Capitol Police and law enforcement” and that “they are truly on the side of our country. Stay Peaceful!”. He tweeted again at 3:13, asking people at the Capitol to “remain peaceful” and not engage in violence: “Remember, we are the party of law and order–respect the law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!” It wasn’t until 4:05 that Joe Biden demands that Trump call for a cessation of the violence….something he had already done twice by that time. At 4:17 Trump posted a video on all sorts of social media outlets telling all the protesters to go home. It should also be noted that by 7:02 p.m. that evening Facebook and Twitter removed all Trump’s posts. It’s easier to create a different timeline and narrative that way.

Now I know that doesn’t match your narrative since it was literally 38 minutes after the barricades were breached but gee…he did tell the people not to riot….to stay peaceful. But then that isn’t the official story from the J6 committee. It’s kinda hard to say he instigated everything unless you completely ignore facts and just never let them into the hearings.

Another BTW…there is video evidence that Ray Epps was standing right there urging people to break through the barricade. Yet when he testified to J6, he claimed he wasn’t there and that he was on his way back to the hotel. So he lied under oath. Didn’t people associated with Trump get prosecuted for less? Sorry…the official narrative doesn’t hold up.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump’s judicial campaign to upend the 2020 election: A failure, but not a wipe-out, he had one case out of 62 that he won. The rest were dismissed by the judges. @seawulf575

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2021/11/30/trumps-judicial-campaign-to-upend-the-2020-election-a-failure-but-not-a-wipe-out/

Some were dismissed because the lawyers would not certify, in court , the truth of the evidence.

jca2's avatar

Who is Ray Epps? A manufactured story pinned to one person who people are foolish enough to believe insired a riot single handedly:

https://news.yahoo.com/ray-epps-reveals-life-ruined-181950614.html

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@jca2 Wolfie totally believes Epps is the mastermind of Jan6 it couldn’t be Trump because he is as pure as the driven snow.

NoMore's avatar

Trumpets are beyond reason. Let them drink their Kool Aid and keep looking for Hale Bop comet. Hell with it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Knowing Trump he may just beat the inciting a riot charge, will be very interesting to see the spin the Rep/cons put on the Georgia phone call when he was calling for them to find enough votes for him to win.

jca2's avatar

Sorry, that word up there is supposed to be “inspired” not “insired.”

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 I don’t believe he acted alone. That’s the kicker. I think there were others and he was just a pawn. You cannot deny the evidence: he was urging exactly what happened. He was calling for it the night before. He was calling for it the day of. But I firmly believe he was not working alone…he isn’t that bright. Someone was using him. And judging by reaction of the Trump fans, it wasn’t Trump. They didn’t trust him and didn’t like what he was pushing.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Do I believe Trump is pure as the driven snow? Nope. But neither do I blindly believe every lie about him as you do. And your sarcasm shows exactly what I am talking about. You cannot actually show anything that definitively prove that Trump did anything. In fact, when presented with facts that disprove the “official narrative” that you have swallowed you just resort to the sarcasm.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Wulfie did you listen to ole orange hairs speech that day?
Sure sounded different than the printed version,the crowd was there because they were convinced by their hero the election was stolen from them and they were very mad, the Proud boys, and oath keepers showed just that.
Here is just another link you will scoff at the Epps is just a conspiracy diversion.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/-trump-protester-ray-epps-told-jan-6-committee-crazy-conspiracy-theori-rcna63615
I will admit I only listened to ¾ of his speech,and only heard peaceful and patriotic once, and heard fight like hell and can’t show weakness more than just once.
You are not going to ever convince me ole orange hair is innocent, but why try I am only a Canadian that has nothing to do with your country,and want nothing to do with your country.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You are stretching still. There is no real smoking gun to say Trump instigated anything. All you are doing is saying “it sounded worse than it read”. Were you trying to hear it worse than it actually was? Were there actual words he said that sounded amazingly like “We are going to go down to the Capitol and break in to force them to not certify the election”? No. And here’s a thought for you…if it were truly an “insurrection”, why was the goal of the protest to just have them send the votes back to the states to recertify them? Why not just take charge?

As for the NBC article, it is just as speculative as everything else and really doesn’t clear him. If someone breaks into your house and you bring him in for questioning and he says he never was in your house, do you just say “Oh well, must be someone else. Probably my neighbor because I hate him!” The video evidence is there. He was urging violence. Why can’t you just acknowledge that? He wasn’t talking in some code like you are claiming Trump was…he was just coming out and saying “We need to go down there and get into the Capitol!” Can’t get much more direct than that. But that means nothing because you hate Trump.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Guess words like we can’t show weakness we have to fight like hell are just code to a Trump lover, same as Rudy’s this will be trial by combat again code I guess.
Nope I am not going to acknowledge the Don Father is innocent,about as much as you will admit he isn’t innocent in all this .

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Maybe someone might volunteer to do Trump’s jail time AND pay the fines too !!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Knowing how much these Trump Lovers slobber all over him I can see that.
To them he can do no wrong,like he said he could walk out on 5th ave. shoot someone and not lose a single member of his base, fact they would go into over time to spin it and blame someone else.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

But we are getting way off topic @seawulf575 can you answer the question or not?
If indicted would Trump actually see jail time, because of his secret service protection?
Yeah,yeah I know he is just an innocent victim and you have the fright wing proof,but still not the question, can you answer the question,will you simply answer the question?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 As I said in answer to this question: I find it questionable that there are even crimes any more. And an indictment is not a trial. Here’s the problem with your question: and indictment is from a grand jury. It is evidence only presented by the prosecutor, not an actual honest trial. There is no judge. The prosecutor presents whatever case he/she/it wants to present and the grand jury decides if there is enough evidence to warrant likely getting a guilty verdict. It does not have to be a unanimous decision.

So if you take a prosecutor that doesn’t present both sides of the coin, who only wants the grand jury to hear one side and convinces them that there is no other side, they might get an indictment. But in the end, the jail time is determined by an actual jury trial where the defense gets to present all their evidence as well. So in today’s world, there are a lot of people including many deluded prosecutors that think just like you: whatever they say about Trump must be true and we Have. To. Get. Trump!!!

Take that into a jury trial and face actual facts and you end up where we are with tons of facts being presented and only opinion being delivered in response. In a situation like that, it is very likely that Trump would walk.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump’s ass is toast,; rape, sedition, Georgia, New York tax fraud all with evidence and witnesses . . but Putin will save him ! !

Tropical_Willie's avatar

. . . Desantis is eating Trump’s lunch and giving Trump the bill.

Trump is not the front runner for 2024 for GOP.

Maybe Trump well split the party and run as an independent (with 30% of the voters) !

Dems 48%

Trump 30%

DeSantis 22%

NoMore's avatar

He’s through he’s finished he’s all washed up. The Trump Era is over. Had to be that way.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Tropical_Willie He will probably beat the riot charge since they found a scape goat, the tax fraud in New York is against the Trump organization yes it will cost the Trumps a ton of money and it should but none of them will see any hard time for it.
He will probably beat the document charge as well, remember he declassified them with his mind (his words not mine).
That leaves the call to the Georgia politician demanding he finds enough votes for Trump to win,that one may just fry his ass we will have to see.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So again you won’t answer because the Don Father is innocent, and anyone trying to charge him is just wasting their time.
That right wulfie?
We are trying to put a The Don Father in jail because our left wing media says he did all these crimes, but your fright wing media says he is just a victim and we should believe your news not ours.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And @Tropical_Willie I really hope you’re right Trump not getting the Republican nod, and sulking off to run a third party that would be fantastic.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You are reading things into it. Is Trump innocent of all crimes? I dunno. He’s human so he has screwed up somewhere along the line. But most of the “crimes” he’s accused of and convicted by people such as yourself don’t actually have solid evidence. Not sure how things work in Canada, but in the US you are supposed to have evidence before being able to convict someone of a crime.

You accuse me of not answering your question, yet I have several times. However you have not actually come up with any evidence of the crimes for which you are trying to put him in jail. We discussed J6 and all you could come up with was “well it sounded worse than it read” all while avoiding actual facts of others that actually DID incite violence. You are the one that cannot look at facts and see reality. Because your left wing media has fed you a story that doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny. You believe it and blame “fright wingers” for seeing the flaws in the stories. That has happened throughout “the Trump Era”. Russia collusion – hoax but blasted for 2 years by the media as truth. The claims of coercion against Ukraine to investigate Biden – Lies, completely blasted out of the water by the release of the telephone transcript. But even with the evidence, the lies were continuing and people actually believed them. The Impeachement for the Ukrainian phone call – bogus from the start. Predicated on lies, charged Trump with things that weren’t actually crimes, convicted him on testimony from people that had absolutely nothing to do with it or were contradicted by many others or heard overheard something from someone that was told something by another person who had a cousin that knew. What passes for “evidence” by you lefties is amazing and scary. I can’t wait for you or someone you know to suddenly be brought into court based on lies and convicted even when there is no evidence. Because that is the world you are pushing for.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok Wulfie I will make it easier for you ,and no I don’t think you actually answered the question you went into defending your hero even a minute by minute of Jan6 of how he couldn’t have incited the riot,plus you have your handy scape goat.
Now let’s put it this way (IF) < you see the if right ? Trump was convicted of a crime that could see jail time, would he actually see jail time because of his secret service protection he recieves for the rest of his life?
Now don’t go into he is innocent and the evil left just want to put him away that wasn’t the question that you answered.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Our evidence ,is that sorta like your fright wing evidence that the election was stolen?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Considering the evidence the election was stolen never saw the light of day in a courtroom, no…it is nothing like the “evidence” you use.

IF Trump had a real crime against him and he was found guilty completely on real evidence, no he would not see the inside of a prison. Though he should. I do not believe in 2 tiered justice. But it would be an embarrassment to the country for an ex-POTUS to be put into jail. Not to mention it would end up highlighting how dreadfully hard the left fought to hang something on him. They wouldn’t have a leg to stand on though you can bet they would try awfully hard.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

But if he was convicted as a FELON; he may not be able to vote and therefore could not run for office again.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok Wulfie I will give you this to pick apart, now I know you will want the correct term but I don’t know it ,the evidence you claim never saw the light of day in the court room, the lawyers had to swear it was the truth and accurate and put their names on it to be brought forward, but SHOCK none of the Don Fathers lawyers would do that, at least in court they wouldn’t.
In front of TV cameras they would claim just about everything and blaming everything,but they wouldn’t do that in court ever wondered why?
My guess they didn’t want to lose their law license when it was proved false.
Now your turn to say why and don’t say left wing judges a lot of those judges were appointed by Trump.

flutherother's avatar

Will they attach a large metal ball to his ankle by means of a chain? I hope so.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Careful @flutherother @seawulf575 will class you a Trump hater.
But yeah I know what ya mean be cool if they threw it off a deep pier as well.

NoMore's avatar

Trump does no wrong. That guy is Jim Jones David Koresh and that Hale Bop dude all in one package. Unfuckingbelievable.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Now he maybe brought up on charges he lied to a Judge in NY. . . same Judge he pissed off before.

Oh well he he’ll try to throw another lawyer under the bus . . . !

Perjury is not the lawyer’s fault.

jca2's avatar

I’d love to see the T man in a black and white striped prisoner uniform that says “Sing Sing” on the back of it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Careful our friendly Wulfie will accuse us all of being Trump haters, after all he has minute by minute happening of how Trump is innocent of Jan 6.
Trump is innocent of all wrong doing the guy is pure as the driven snow.
We have been brain washed by our evil left wing media that tells nothing but lies on the Don Father.
We need to listen to the holy fright wing media to learn the truth and be free,it’s truly amazing how fast they can spin it ,er tell the truth.
Now excuse me I have to go barf after writing that.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 the evidence went to court many times and in almost all of the cases the court refused to hear the case saying they were the wrong venue. Not that the evidence was good or bad…they never heard it.

seawulf575's avatar

And while there are lots of snarky comments I have to say that they all tell the world more about you than anything. Because for all the claims, not a single one of you has shown any actual evidence of a crime. And when pressed the best you can come up with is innuendo as evidence. You talk about how his election claims went to court a bunch of times and were tossed out each time as proof they were false, even when the courts never heard the case. Yet when confronted with the entire Mueller report that cleared Trump of being involved with Russia you cannot accept that as proof. Logic is not the strong suit on the left.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Remember the Tagerine Turd can do no wrong and NEVER lied !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Sorry @Tropical_Willie I get sucked in by the evil left wing media.
From the quid quo pro, to Jan 6,the tax fraud in New York, the phone call Georgia politician, and the document crime The Don Father is just an innocent victim, just a hard done rich guy who only wants to help the country or at least other hard done by rich folk.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I missed your J.K. or ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Time for TRUMP to put in another Frivolous Lawsuit.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Good grief oh Holy Wulfie any evidence we post is just snarked away by you, but we are supposed to accept yours without question, how very extreme fright wing of you.
You say there was no Russia ,russia, russia despite all the indictments and guilty pleas uh they were pleading guilty of other things not russia.
Jan6 was all down to Epps baiting followers to enter the Capital and riot, nothing what the Don Father caused any of that his speech was all peace and love,we are supposed to accept that with out question, except he was back at the white house for some time before he told the rioters to go home on which they did, but none of what happened was the Don Fathers fault we are again to accept it with out question.
Next the documents he is innocent of that as well because he had the power to declassify them so no crime, except 2 things one after digging you are right the President has the power to declassify any document he want, except there still is a process that you wont admit the documents then have to be redacted and then stamped declassified the ones in his possession were not, and they are still GOVERNMENT property that he refused to give back there for making them stolen spin that one .
Next is the phone call to Georgia demanding they find im enough votes for him to win, I am looking forward to your spin on that one.
Then of course the tax fraud case in New York,that he is blaming on his organization he and his kids are innocent of that just another hard done by rich dude.
My question is it your passion to defend this idiot ,that wouldn’t cross the street to piss on you if you were on fire? You love this guy that much?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “any evidence we post is just snarked away by you, but we are supposed to accept yours without question, how very extreme fright wing of you.” What evidence have you actually posted? Look back. Innuendo and supposition and opinion are NOT evidence.

Let’s look at the rest of your post. Russia, Russia, Russia: What did Muller’s investigation find? That no Americans knowingly participated in any Russian efforts to interfere in the 2016 election. No Americans….that includes Trump. The indictments were for exactly what you are using them for: smoke. “Look at all these indictments!”. Some of them were for things that happened before the accused was even involved with Trump. Some were of Russian companies or Russian nationals and those cases were dropped when those accused demanded a speedy trial. Yeah…that’s solid evidence. NONE OF THE INDICTMENTS HAD TO DO WITH TRUMP. Get over it! You want to present that as evidence, then call up the indictments that (a) showed beyond any reasonable doubt that Trump was involved and (b) that discredits the Mueller report. Until you can do that you are presenting supposition…not evidence.

J6. You are entirely ignoring video evidence of Epps urging violence on J6 to discount him as anything. Yet you keep saying “It was Trump’s Speech!” Yet I have presented the entire speech in a text form. You can read it for yourself. Yet when confronted with this evidence (which is real evidence by the way) you claim (a) its too long to bother with and (b) it sounds worse than it reads. But I’d lay dollars to doughnuts that you never listened to the entire thing either. All you have heard is doctored snippets that were presented as “proof”. You can’t actually point to anything as solid proof of wrongdoing.

You move on to the Documents. You admit that the POTUS has the right to declassify materials. But then you go on to say there is a process. You can’t actually show me the process or the rules because they don’t exist for the POTUS. You have all sorts of claims but none of them hold water. Want to make that evidence? Show me the law/policy that says “this is how the POTUS declassifies materials”. THAT would be evidence.

The list goes on and on. All you have is claims by the left wing media that is trying desperately to discredit Trump in any way they can. That isn’t to say he hasn’t committed any crimes, but it is to say that claiming it isn’t proof. The phone call to GA, the tax fraud case….all of them are just spin by the left. They have been doing this for years and fools keep believing them. The Charlottesville Lie, the Covington Catholic kids…all of them made up to make Trump and Trump supporters look deranged and criminal.

And my passion isn’t to defend Trump, my passion is not to be duped by lies. Not to believe opinion presented as fact. To be able to think for myself and to look for the truth of things. My question to you is do you hate Trump so much that you forego thinking and let the media tell you what to think? You can’t even tell fact from opinion. Here’s a clue: facts are verifiable and not verifiable by other opinions.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump’s freaking CFO is doing time at Rikers DUH DUH DUH ! ! !

Stone, Manafort and Kushner got the Trump pardon. for RUSSIA and lying to Congress https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55433522

(A commutation usually takes the form of a reduced prison term, but does not erase the conviction or imply innocence.)

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The Georgia phone call was recorded by a die hard Republican yet you blow it off.
as snipits and yet Epps now that was gospel.
And you really think the tax fraud case is just left wing spin?
You say not to be duped by lies , but you believe everything fright wing news states.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

OH and I admitted the President does in fact have the power to declassify any document he or she wishes, why can’t you admit the document then has to go for redacting and restamped declassified to be truly declassified?
Because if it doesn’t it still has highly classified information on it, that any joe blow or new source can request to view. but you can not admit that WHY??

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And you say not to accept opinion as fact and yet the majority of you fright wingers accept what Tucker,or Hannity say as pure fact care to spin that as well?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Why can’t I admit documents the POTUS declassifies have to be redacted and restamped? Because they don’t. That’s what you aren’t understanding. For the POTUS, and for the POTUS only, all that has to happen is for him to say they are declassified. THERE ARE NO RULES OTHER THAN THAT. You keep claiming that and I have challenged you to show me the rule that states what a POTUS has to do to declassify materials. Cite the law…provide a link. I can cite laws that apply to everyone except the POTUS.

But here’s a consideration…Biden and Hillary were not POTUS when the got their classification gaffes. So wouldn’t you agree that just by having classified materials in unsecure locations they committed crimes? And Biden was not VP or Senator when he took them. So that borders on espionage issues, doesn’t it?

Now this is where you try to deflect. You accuse Trump of violating rules that don’t exist and call that a crime. But when someone on the left does it you will deflect.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 It still has to be documented that a change occurred . . . not in trump’s mind with no redacted lines and words; it is not unclassified except in trump’s mind and maybe yours !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

For fucks sake wulfie if your hated Democrats committed a crime then they should be held accountable.
Now besides your beloved Don Father and his kiss ass how is anyone else supposed to know what documents have been declassified if they are not stamped and redacted,
then any American or news outlet can request to view these documents and unredacted wouldn’t that be a problem for national security?
Also they are still the property of the Federal Government, and refusing to give them back make them stolen regardless on there classification and isn’t that a crime?

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Which policy/law says that? Here’s a clue: only the one in your mind.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Soooo….you can’t actually point to a policy or a law that says what you want it to say. Now, would you like to know why there isn’t any such law?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

“As with classification, declassification is a two-step process. First, an authorized official must determine that the information no longer requires protection. Second, that determination must be communicated so that the protections are removed. Accordingly, when a decision has been made to declassify information, it must be marked as declassified. If the declassification affects an entire category of information, the agency’s classification guide must be updated accordingly. If it is narrower, the decision may be captured in a declassification guide — although often, the consultation process that accompanies a declassification decision is sufficient to alert the necessary personnel. ”

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/government-classification-and-mar-lago-documents

Must be marked DECLASSIFIED

Further moree!

“One thing the president cannot do, though, is declassify information “by thinking about it” — i.e., without communicating that decision to anyone else. This conclusion follows not from any particular legal requirements but rather from the very essence of what it means to classify or declassify information. As noted above, these are two-step processes: first, an official determines whether the information requires protection, and second, the information is flagged to ensure that the protections are applied or removed. If an official claims to have classified or declassified information after taking the first step but not the second, it’s like a customer saying she ordered food at a restaurant when she has decided what she wants to eat but hasn’t told the waiter.”

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie Those rules apply to EVERYONE except the POTUS. The issue isn’t the document, it’s the information on the document. One of the claims in favor of Hillary was that none of her e-mails were stamped classified. But if I take a classified document and pull the information off and send it out, I did not declassify the information. And the POTUS is exempted from these things specifically for the position he holds. He may need to make a spur of the moment decision that he has to share material that might currently be classified with someone in another nation or even in this nation that does not have the clearance for it. Ostensibly this is to perform his job, but the rules are pretty broad. There can be no law created by Congress that binds the POTUS for things like this. That would impact the separation of powers in our government. And what you just cited is just that. Additionally it takes credit for the Obama EO as the binding thing. But that is not the case either. The POTUS is not bound by EOs created by other POTUS’.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

It did state that the beloved POTUS can not declassify documents by just thinking it ,it has to be told to to certain members these are now declassified.
What you won’t admit is if they are not redacted and stamped so doesn’t matter they are still declassified because the beloved POTUS thought it with his mind they are now harmless and can be viewed by any American or news source.
You also wont admit regardless of classification they are still Federal Government property thus making them stolen in his possession .

Tropical_Willie's avatar

“The POTUS is not bound by EOs created by other POTUS’.”

OH yes he is; he would have to write his EO to reverse Obama’s EO !

He can’t do the declassify thingy and say I thought about and made it so ! AH HA Maybe after he left the White House !

I know I know I know I know I know Tangerine Turd can do no wrong, just ask he’ll tell you he did no wrong !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Is a firearm unloaded just because you thought it so?
Is it harmless because it was thought to be unloaded?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And face it the only reason he is claiming the declassified thing is to save his orange ass.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 The first time the Dems tried to “get” Trump on espionage charges was when he had a phone call with the Russian government and chose to discuss classified materials with them. The problem then, as it is now, was that there is no law dictating what the POTUS has to do to declassify material.

And your gun analogy is bogus as well. A gun is a material object. Classified information is just that…information. Just because you copy the information onto a piece of paper that is not marked as Classified does that mean it’s no longer classified? If you read the document that is classified over the phone and don’t specify it is classified, does that mean it is no longer classified? For the POTUS it DOES mean it isn’t classified. The POTUS is the ultimate authority when it comes to deciding if something is classified or not. Like it or not, Trump had that power.

Meanwhile, Hillary did not. So sending out classified information through e-mails was not allowed by the same law you are saying applies to the POTUS. The same applied to Joe Biden as VP or Senator. He no longer had the “need to know” for the classified materials so he should never have had them at all. Every document is a violation of the laws concerning classified materials. If I took classified material when I was discharged, from the submarine I was attached to…classified materials I was privy to when I was on board…I would have been guilty of violating that law. I was no longer entitled to have them nor to even see them. It wouldn’t matter if I “meant to” have them or if I kept them under lock and key.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Ok but The Don Father was no longer your beloved POTUS when he was in possession of these GOVERNMENT documents some stamped highly classified, how do you defend that?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Golly isn’t the Don Father guilty of what you described at the end of your last post?
He had Government documents in his possession when he was no longer your beloved POTUS.
And it didn’t matter if they were secure or not thanks for clearing that up.
Now as for Biden and evil Hilary if they are found guilty of a crime then they should be held accountable I really don’t know what more you want from us.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 He was POTUS when he moved them to his home in Mar-a-Lago. Once he declassifies them they don’t just automatically revert back. So what he likely had (or what the DoJ is hoping to prove against) was declassified materials. No longer classified, no issue with control and dissemination of said materials. The laws concerning classified materials no longer hold control.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 And just for clarification, he did have witnesses that have already told the FBI that Trump did declassify these materials. Not that that stopped them from bringing in the jack-booted thugs and notifying the media.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And I agreed to that, but they still were Government property that he refused to return this classified or not makes them stolen.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I agree with @SQUEEKY2, Trump Inc. doesn’t own them, the NARA does.

Stolen goods held by a pathological lair !

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 And that gets back to where I said they were effectively overdue library books. And while that is likely true, let’s look back at others that you supported or at least blew off.

Hillary copied classified materials into emails, effectively plagiarizing them. She had information in places she didn’t even know including Anthony Weiner’s laptop.

Joe Biden had documents from back when he was a Senator. So he had them for what…10 years or more? Documents he wasn’t entitled to have in the first place. Apparently NARA not having their documents isn’t really that important to them. Unless, of course, the person with them is named Trump.

In the end, NARA does not issue the documents. They are created through the operation of the government. It is the rules that all classified materials be turned into them for safe keeping and proper storage. But they have no idea what classified documents are out there and who has them.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@seawulf575 You are never going to convince us that Trump is just a poor innocent honest hard done by rich dude trying to help the American working slob.
Just as much as convincing us Biden , and Hilary are some kind of master mind king pins of a world wide crime organization.
The only thing your convinced is Trump may be guilty of an over due library book( that he refused to give back)
You remember in Trump’s four years there was a couple of Republicans caught using a private server for their Government emails, one might have been Ivanka did we hear an up roar from the right nope,
6years later and your still got your shit in your pants about the emails, what I like as how the number of emails grew in those years you sure it isn’t 30 million emails by now , maybe you should check it might just be.
Then the Hunter lap top OMG a whole crime families history is on that lap top how can they ignore that?
Amazing is when the media dives into anything from the left they are just doing their job, but touch the right and their bias , crooked,slanted, and just out to get the hard done by rich folk.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 There have been a great number of politicians and political appointees that used personal servers for their emails. Nothing wrong with that at all. It becomes problematic when you want to use it for your government business. Again, it CAN be done, but there are all sorts of rules about doing so…rules to ensure classified materials are not accidentally disseminated where they shouldn’t go. Rules that were inconvenient to Hillary so she ignored them.

What I can’t understand is how you get your panties in a wad about Trump with classified materials but completely try to ignore Biden or Hillary. All three had some version of potentially mishandling classified materials. And all you can do is go to Trump, Trump, Trump!!! And Trump is the only one that has an out from the classification side. So his case is actually the least impactful. Biden was never supposed to have classified materials – crime. He was supposed to turn them in to NARA when he left office as a Senator – Crime – and VP – Crime. He had them moved by Hunter’s business partner who had no clearance at all – Crime. He had them stored in an unauthorized place for a period of time on the way to the Penn/Biden center and his home – Crime. Penn/Biden and his home(s) are not approved storage locations and have no record of who may have seen these documents – Crime. And you are hot-to-trot on Trump not returning the files yet Biden had his for years…far longer than Trump.

Hillary didn’t want to follow the rules for controlling classified materials and insisted on using her own server. So every piece of classified material is a crime. And they found thousands. – Crime. She had emails that had classified information transposed onto them without marking them classified – Crime. When they finally started investigating she claimed ignorance as an excuse. Ignorance is specifically stated in the law as not being an excuse – Crime. They subpoenaed her e-mails and instead of giving them up willingly, she gave them some and then deleted 30,000 more claiming they weren’t pertinent – Crime for violating the subpoena. They wanted to impound her server and she refused. Instead she had a personal company do a forensic search of it. They subpoenaed her cell phones and other electronic devices and she smashed them with a hammer. More accurately she had an aide smash them.

All-in-all, Biden and Hillary are guilty as sin. And had Trump done ANY of the idiotic things they did, you’d be screaming for his hide. And on that scream I would have agreed with you. But you think they are okay and no-big-deal.

The big deal is how the DoJ deals with Dems and with Repubs. They storm troopers raided Trump and called the media to leak the story as it happened. With Biden, they let his attorneys get the offending materials…attorneys that may or may not have been cleared for what was on the documents. They searched his property. But they sat on the story for weeks. It wasn’t until the story leaked out that they finally started to admit the wrongdoing. And then they tried talking about not being able to discuss on-going investigations. They had no problem getting the media involved with Trump though. With Hillary they did even worse. They let her flaunt the subpoenas, they let her control what they could and couldn’t see, and still when they were faced with overwhelming evidence of wrongdoing the DoJ decided to create a clause to the law that didn’t exist and, in fact, completely violated the law…the Intent Clause. She didn’t mean to. She didn’t really have any plans to leak the materials. How the top law enforcement of the land deals with this shows they are completely biased and on a par of the Gestapo from Nazi Germany.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Georgia is calling up witnesses for a Grand Jury for his phone call that threatened the Georgia Secretary of State to “find 11 thousand votes ” !

Not weaponized FBI or DOJ.

He’s toast !!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Good grief Wulfie, not a single person here has said Biden or Hillary should get off on any crime they committed they should be as accountable as your beloved Trump.
Again you didn’t listen or read they were guilty of using a private server for their Government emails, and the right said nothing.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

. . . “storm troopers raided Trump”, were not STORM TROOPERS but FBI in suits and ties; there was no threat to shoot anyone a Mar-a-Lago. I know it hurt his LITTLE FEELINGS he got caught with more documents that should be in NARA; not a closet next to the pool table ! ! ! !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

If Trump had simply returned the documents when asked ,the public would never had known he even had them.
They asked for them for a year,then when they had to go get them they let the secret service know when they would be there, it wasn’t a storm by land and the beaches by the evil left.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “they should be as accountable as your beloved Trump.” That is about as close as any of you can get to being outraged by their actions or the actions of the DoJ in prosecuting them. Ditto that of the media. Compare that with the words and actions of the same group towards Trump.

“Again you didn’t listen or read they were guilty of using a private server for their Government emails, and the right said nothing.” Who? Republicans? Ivanka? Go back and review what I said. Using private servers for e-mail is not illegal. For personal emails it is perfectly okay. For government business it CAN be used but is discouraged. And if it is used, then it needs to follow certain rules about capturing classified materials. You seem to think I am saying the issue with Hillary was her server. It wasn’t. It was that tons of classified materials got sent all over the place and no one knew where. That could not have happened if she had used the government servers. And if ANYONE was in the same position of choosing not to use the government servers for their government business AND classified materials were sent out, I’d want them held just as accountable as I do Hillary. It isn’t a partisan issue except for how the DoJ and the media handle the different cases. That I do take exception with. That is what you haven’t figured out. In your rush to hate Trump, you cannot see the danger of the partisanship by the media and the DoJ. Nor do you see that I call for equal treatment for all. I want the law applied equally. But when it comes to Trump, you are of the belief that because some “news” outlet accused him of something he is guilty and should be punished. I’m of the frame of mind that I’d rather wait for actual crimes, I want actual evidence and not just accusations before saying he should be punished. And the frantic partisanship of the DoJ and the media makes it almost impossible for that to happen.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 And BTW, Ivanka was never a government employee.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The same as her husband, both were never elected but Daddy did have them as Government employees.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie So she is unpaid with no title and is just an adviser. Huh. Yep, that sounds just like government! Sorry. But there was something I noticed about the Guardian article you posted. “a government-issued phone and computer and security clearance to access classified information.” So she had the government issued stuff. And an office. So that means that what @SQUEEKY2 said about Ivanka using a private server was just a lie. Interesting.

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SQUEEKY2's avatar

Here ya go.. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46271021
Shock maybe I didn’t lie oh no what now?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Also if jan6th speech was all peace and love, why did the Proud boys, and oath keepers show up with tactical gear and weapons?
If all it was is a peace and love protest?
I know, I know it’s all Epps fault he was at the front of the line yelling go ,go,go.

seawulf575's avatar

Isn’t it funny that when Antifa shows up with tactical gear and weapons to burn down a city, you guys say it is a peaceful protest and at worst that there might be a few bad apples. But you certainly don’t blame your idol Dems. Even when Chuck Schumer called for violence against the conservative SCOTUS justices and some guy was caught with tools for just that purpose outside Kavanaugh’s home, none of you blamed Dem speeches or even rhetoric. That, sir, is called hypocrisy.

It’s even worse than hypocrisy since you can’t actually produce a single fact where Trump called for violence. Yet I can, and have, produced several times where he called for peaceful protests. Yet to Dems that is dog whistle language for whatever they want to blame on Trump.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

“Others ransacked a nearby Nike store after shattering windows and walking off with armloads of athletic shirts, jeans, jackets, and sweatpants. In other cities—from Raleigh, North Carolina, to San Francisco, California—a small minority of individuals burned cars, attacked police officers, and looted businesses. In response, some U.S. officials fingered— without evidence —Antifa as the main culprits.”

https://www.csis.org/analysis/who-are-antifa-and-are-they-threat

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Where is your source for “Antifa shows up with tactical gear and weapons to burn down a city, you guys say it is a peaceful protest and at worst that there might be a few bad apples” . .

. . . Trump and Barr don’t count ?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Wulfie you have more than once accused us for deflecting ,but wasn’t your last post exactly that?
So because these antifa people showed up in tactical gear makes it more than fine for the oath keepers ,and proud boys to do the same?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Antifa maybe after Fascists that would be bad thing for Fascists ! ! ! Wink wink

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 My last post was only in response to the previous ones that were trying to deflect. See, this is fairly typical. I make a statement. You guys and gals on the left freak out and make personal attacks on me, usually accusing me of saying things I didn’t or picking one piece of what I said and go crazy with it. So I respond to whatever you guys throw my way. And as I point out where your statements are nuts, you change what you want to talk about. It was @Tropical_Willie who tossed out comments about Proud Boys and Oathkeepers. His comment was so out of left field I merely tossed out a comment about Antifa doing the exact same things he accuses PB and OK of. And you claim I’m deflecting, apparently because you know I am exactly right but don’t want to have to admit it.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You also point out we cherry picked a few statements of his speech (we have to be strong,and fight like hell, we can’t show weakness) then Rudy saying this will be trial by combat we took the whole speech out of context.
Gee I guess several hundred rioters took it out of context as well then, right?

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 So you are trying to read into things in the speech but want to ignore the direct calls for incursion by Ray Epps. Why is that?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Guess I took it for incitement ,like the several other hundred rioters did that day.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Also you are telling us he never said (we have to be strong and fight like hell we can’t show weakness?

Response moderated (Unhelpful)
seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 You took it for incitement like several other hundred rioters did that day? I gave you the timeline already. Confrontations with police started before Trump was even done speaking. And he was speaking a couple miles from where that was happening. How did they get incited from that distance? How did they hear him? Why did they start trouble before he was done? The breaching of the barricades was about 40 minutes after he was done. Kinda hard to say that was the crowd at his speech as it would have taken them about that long to get to the Capitol. And if he was inciting, why would only such a small percentage of the protesters get out of control?

As for him saying we have to be strong and fight like hell and we can’t show weakness? Sure he said several things like that. And when you take them out of context isn’t it funny how you can give it a different meaning. Are you telling us he didn’t say they were going to walk down to the Capitol and peacefully and patriotically let Congress know what they wanted?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Peacefully and patriotically was put there for show when this was to come before a committee or court of law.
He said fight like hell and can’t show weakness a lot more.
Also if this was such a peace and love speech why didn’t everyone wait til the Don Father was done spreading his peace and love message?
And your panties are all in a bunch because the committee cut the speech off before the end, why wait till the end the crowd was already at the Capital, rioting .

seawulf575's avatar

Soooo….the statement he makes that IS specific, it context, and directive to the crowd you say was just for show, but phrases taken out of context are the real meat and potatoes. Did you actually read the speech? It has been linked at least twice in this thread.

Let me give you an example. The “fight like hell” portion. This happened right towards the end of his speech. So let me cite you what was said immediately following this:
“So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give—the Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.”

Sorry, he’s not talking about storming the castle. He’s talking about a protest influencing politicians which is, by the way, the point of protests…to influence people.

He said fight quite a few times throughout the speech. But in each and every case he was not urging violence. You are trying to make something that isn’t there and can only be considered there if you take it out of context. I you say someone is fighting for their rights, does that automatically mean violence? If I have to fight something out in court, does that mean that we have a boxing match to decide the case? According to you, that is exactly what it means and any other definition is just wrong.

As for J6 committee cutting the speech into pieces, that DID happen. This is a good example of how the “evidence” was manipulated. The videos start about the 4 minute point, your “fight like hell” comment is at about the 6 minute point. The Dem House managers were, like you, trying to take statements out of context, assigning an entirely different meaning to it and then treating it as fact. But I actually give you more of a pass since you didn’t manipulate it, you were manipulated. But I don’t give you a pass too much because you have been shown over and over where the lies are and you continue to support and spread them.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Why did it take about three hours for The Tangerine Turd to call off his sediatous team including Oath Keepers and Proud Boys.

Was he hoping theY would lynch Pelosi and Pence ? ?

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
jca2's avatar

Trump does say “stay peaceful” but that’s after him saying “fight like hell.”

Trump Jan 6 tweets and timeline:

https://www.newsweek.com/jan-6-capitol-riot-timeline-trumps-first-tweet-speech-bidens-certification-1665436

You know I like to back up my shit with links, so nobody has to take my word for things.

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Response moderated
seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 And as we both posted the speech in links earlier, you are lying. He said specifically to “peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard” on page 4 of the transcript. “Fight like hell” was not until page 15 and was in reference to making fighting against what appeared to be bogus election results. Again, when you ignore facts and treat snippets with different meanings attached in their place, you can easily be proven wrong.

What I was referencing to @Tropical_Willie that you were attempting to bail him out on was that he claimed Trump took 3 hours to tell his protesters to stand down. He was wrong as well, but you felt necessary to try stepping in. Trying to support someone that is lying doesn’t make you look any better.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Was that succinct enough for you?

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575 According to the link I just posted (the CNN link), 1:11 pm, “fight like hell.”

2:38 pm, “stay peaceful.”

What was a lie in what I wrote? I said “Trump does say “stay peaceful” but that’s after him saying “fight like hell.” 2:38 pm is after 1:11 pm.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Facts are Trump did not tweet for three hours to stop the attempts to “HANG MIKE PENCE” !that sir is a fact. !! !

When he did tweet; they left . . .who was in control of the mob?? the guy that tweeted to stop !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

No,No It was Epps he controlled the rioters , Trump was just organizing a cuddle fest it was all peace and love.
We can not believe what we saw on the news that day Trump is just a poor innocent rich guy that wants to be King.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

I was wondering if Twitter didn’t ban Trump so quickly on January 6th that he would have been able to call off the insurrection sooner. Just wondering.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

He didn’t want to call it off sooner, but it was interesting as soon as said stand down go home and the rioters did just that.
But let’s Blame Epps why not throw a fright winger under the bus?

seawulf575's avatar

@jca I posted the exact same link as you, before you did. If you search “peacefully” you find him saying they were going to march peacefully and patriotically on page 4 of his speech transcript. “Fight like hell” is only mentioned once on page 15. Sorry, I was there before you and did the searches too. You cited the CNN page…look it up yourself.

seawulf575's avatar

@ Tropical_Willie sources!!! You keep claiming crap that isn’t true. Back it up.

seawulf575's avatar

@RedDeeraGuy1 he tweeted twice and posted a video before everyone banned him. But I’m sure them banning him was part of the dog whistle to urge people to revolt.

jca2's avatar

My link was Newsweek, not CNN as I said previously, sorry.

@seawulf: This is cut and pasted from his quotes from my Newsweek link: It clearly shows the quote at 1:11 pm and 2:38 pm:

1:11 p.m.: Trump tells supporters to “fight like hell” because if they don’t, “you’re not going to have a country anymore.”

1:13 p.m.: Trump finishes speaking.3

1:26 p.m.: Capitol Police order the evacuation of the Library of Congress, Madison Building and Cannon House Office Building. 6

1:30 p.m.: The House and Senate adjourn to separate chambers to hear an objection to Arizona’s election results.5

1:45 p.m.: Rioters push past police and an officer announces that it is “now effectively a riot,” although officers are trying to get compliance.1

1:49 p.m.: Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund calls Major General William Walker, commanding general of the D.C. National Guard, to request assistance.6

2:00 p.m.: Rioters force their way past barricades and advance to the exterior facade of the Capitol, forcing their way into the building.7

2:05 p.m.: Kevin Greeson, reportedly a Trump supporter, is declared dead after suffering a heart attack outside the Capitol.8

2:10 p.m.: Rioters begin to break through the doors and windows of the Senate.9

2:13 p.m.: Secret Service escorts Pence and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi from the Senate floor. At the same time, Capitol Police Officer Eugene Goodman encounters a mob and draws them away from the upper chamber.5

2:20 p.m.: Congress members are instructed to evacuate the chambers.5

2:23 p.m.: Julian Khater sprays a chemical substance toward Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick, who is pronounced dead the next day.10

2:24 p.m.: Trump tweets that Pence “didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country and our Constitution.”

2:25 p.m.: Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy tells staff to prepare to move the emergency reactionary force to the Capitol.9

2:26 p.m.: Trump intends to call Alabama Republican Senator Tommy Tuberville, but he calls Utah Republican Senator Mike Lee instead. Lee gives the phone to Tuberville, who tells Trump that Pence was evacuated and he cannot talk.7

2:30 p.m.: Rioters try the door to Pelosi’s office but find it’s locked. Minutes later, a rioter pushes in the door.11

2:38 p.m.: Trump urges people to “support our Capitol police and law enforcement,” and tweets that “they are truly on the side of our country. Stay peaceful!”

SQUEEKY2's avatar

No,NO it’s still all Epps fault,Trump is innocent @seawulf575 says so.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You know use the wording of the speech,and claim innocent, but one thing for certain a majority wasn’t there for a peaceful protest they came with tactical gear and weapons, doesn’t sound like they came for a snuggle fest.
Trump knew these people were in the crowd, he told security to take the (mags) away they weren’t there to harm him.
That sound like he was getting ready for a peaceful protest?
These rioters chanting hang Pence , doesn’t sound like a peaceful protest.
DEFEND your hero,play with your facts, the fact is there was an out of control riot that day and they did it in the name of Trump.
They tried to over turn your countries democracy that day because your hero told them the election was stolen, but could never prove it.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 That is not the first time he told them to be peaceful. Go back to the speech. You posted the link from CNN, go review it. Page 4 he says the will Peacefully and patriotically walk to the capitol to make their voices heard. At the end of the speech is where he says “fight like hell”. In fact, let’s look closer at the “fight like hell” comment:

“Our brightest days are before us. Our greatest achievements still wait. I think one of our great achievements will be election security because nobody until I came along, had any idea how corrupt our elections were. And again, most people would stand there at 9:00 in the evening and say, “I want to thank you very much,” and they go off to some other life, but I said, “Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.” And we fight. We fight like hell and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.
Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children and for our beloved country, and I say this, despite all that’s happened, the best is yet to come. So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give—the Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.
So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I want to thank you all. God bless you and God bless America. ”

It sounds so much different when you put it in context, doesn’t it? What he’s saying with that is that many people, if the election was stolen, would just say “oh well, nice try” and let it go at that. But he sees something wrong and isn’t going to let it go. He’s going to fight as he had been…speaking out, trying to challenge results, trying to urge Congress to take up his voice. Be he even says they are going to cheer on the congressmen and women. You don’t cheer on people you are trying to put at the end of a threat.

But your cut and paste is very helpful and I thank you. BTW, I used the same Newsweek article to come up with the times I posted way earlier. And what you just showed me is that (a) you didn’t actually read the text of the speech you posted or you would have known that he called for peace much earlier than 2:38 and (b) @Tropical_Willie Is completely delusional with his claim of 3 hours before calling for peace. Barricades were breached at 2, he is again urging peace at 2:38. He did it again about 35 minutes later and then again about an hour after that. 3 times in roughly 2.25 hours after the breach of the barricades.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I believe you are suffering from whatever @Tropical_Willie has. “but one thing for certain a majority wasn’t there for a peaceful protest they came with tactical gear and weapons, doesn’t sound like they came for a snuggle fest.” Again, where are your sources? What I can find is that 840 people were arrested as of Jan 6 2022. The size of the crowd was estimated to be 80,000. So it sounds like a distinct MINORITY were not there for peaceful action. It sound like the vast MAJORITY were there for the snugglefest as you call it. And while you are trying to dismiss Ray Epps because you can’t stand the idea that it might not have been Trump, it should be pointed out that in addition to Epps trying to stir up aggression the night before and the morning of the speech, he was also video taped at the first breach of a barricade, urging people on there too. And the barricades were not breached every where, only in a few spots. And he was front and center at the first and one of the largest breaches.

flutherother's avatar

The thing is @seawulf575 you don’t protest the results of an election, not even peacefully, and by considering “peaceful” protest a legitimate way to overturn the results just shows how much you see things through orange tinted spectacles.

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother You can protest whatever you think needs to be protested. And yes, you CAN protest the results of an election. Nations do it all the time. Look at the last one in Brazil. If there are shaky results and there is really no solid reason for it, if it looks like there might have been malfeasance in the process, then yes, you protest the results.

What I would say you DON’T do is start calling for impeachment against the new president before he even takes office.

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