Social Question

JLeslie's avatar

When else in history have there been big protests in the US regarding unrest or war in other countries?

Asked by JLeslie (65485points) 1 month ago from iPhone

The US doesn’t have soldiers fighting in the current Israel Palestinian war, but there are protests in the US about it. The US does have troops in other parts of the ME getting attacked and some retaliation has happened. The US also supplies some weaponry to Israel.

The Vietnam war eventually led to protests in the US, but the US and our soldiers were directly involved in the war (conflict).

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61 Answers

hat's avatar

@JLeslie: “The US doesn’t have soldiers fighting in the current Israel Palestinian war, but there are protests in the US about it.”

The US is supplying the weapons and money to make all of this possible. This atrocity is made possible by the US.

You and I have blood on our hands because our tax dollars pay for the bombs used to murder families and destroy a people.

And just as important – the US has spent decades vetoing every possible UN resolution against Israel, so we (the US) are directly resonsible for its illegal and murderous actions.

@JLeslie: “The Vietnam war eventually led to protests in the US, but the US and our soldiers were directly involved in the war (conflict).”

Right, people were more opposed when US bodies were returning in body bags. Isn’t it great that people today are actually concerned about the people we are murdering?

But there have been other actual mass protests to try to stop US bombing and war before (Iraq).

chyna's avatar

@hat I disagree that “you and I have blood on our hands because our tax dollars pay for the bombs”….etc.
Citizens have no control over what our tax dollars are spent on and we usually have no idea because it’s all such a damn secret. We don’t know that the defense area is spending a thousand dollars per bolt or per nut and screw which they could buy at Lowes for pennies. These are decisions made behind our backs. If you want to feel you have blood on your hands, feel free. But do not drag everyone else into your drama.

hat's avatar

@chyna: “Citizens have no control over what our tax dollars are spent on and we usually have no idea because it’s all such a damn secret.”

How is it a secret? We have been sending ~$4billion to Israel for years. And when the slaughter increased after October 7th, we rushed to send more money. Both parties just authorized an extremely public additional $26 billion to fund this genocide.

@chyna: “But do not drag everyone else into your drama.”

Drama? I’m not sure if you’re trolling. But you do know that there are ethical implications of your money, influence, and bombs murdering > 35k people, include > 14k children, right? Whether you somehow choose to be ignorant of the actions of your government is irrelevant.

hat's avatar

I am interested to hear if there are others who had no idea that they were buying and supplying the bombs being dropped on children in Gaza. At least 3 people bravely admitted that they had no idea that they were funding an occupation and genocide (via “great answer” votes).

And now that you do know, do you feel differently?

zenvelo's avatar

@hat But do you continue to support the raping and murdering of children and the elderly? Until you condemn Hamas and its actions you are complicit and have blood on your hands.

hat's avatar

^ Fuck off, you genocidal maniac. This is one of the most unhinged things I have seen here.

zenvelo's avatar

@hat I am not absolving Netanyahu or the IDF from their atrocities, but it is not at all one sided. And your waving a Palestinian flag while teenage girls are held hostage for over six months defines your complicity.

hat's avatar

@zenvelo: “I am not absolving Netanyahu or the IDF from their atrocities”

You are.

@zenvelo: “but it is not at all one sided.”

It is.

@zenvelo: “And your waving a Palestinian flag while teenage girls are held hostage for over six months defines your complicity.”

I don’t fund Hamas, but I do fund Israel. This is really easy stuff.

Demosthenes's avatar

Yes, protests would be even more widespread if our troops were dying for Israel and if young Americans were actively being drafted, but understand that Vietnam represented a turning point in American history. There will likely never be another draft, at least not to fight a foreign war, due to the failure of Vietnam and the reaction against it. We may not be directly fighting in Gaza, but we are funding Israel’s oppression of Palestinians, Biden has been a Zionist his whole life, and commitment to Israel no matter how appalling their actions is part of supporting either of the two major parties.

Protesters are demanding that the U.S. at the very least call for a ceasefire, but we’re not even doing that—instead we’re sending billions more to Israel as the Palestinian body count adds up. It’s not a mystery why there are protests (especially when many universities have financial ties to Israel).

Once the IDF begins its assault on Rafah, you can expect even more outcry, though the U.S. will likely never waver in its support for the IDF. Decades later, history will look badly upon Israeli actions and American support for those actions, and universities and others will whitewash it and say they always supported the protests and opposed the genocide and their generation was out there protesting even if they were the ones calling student organizers Nazis and fascists for daring to question the American war machine.

One thing I’ve learned from studying the war in Vietnam is that, apart from the unpopularity of the draft, we’ve learned little from it and continue to repeat similar mistakes.

JLeslie's avatar

@hat You didn’t answer the Q you repeated what I said in the introduction.

@Demosthenes I also didn’t see other examples of large protests in your answer for wars we were not directly involved in, meaning our soldiers fighting.

gorillapaws's avatar

Tibet is one example. Opposition to Saudi Arabia’s war in Yemen.

Also “direct” is pretty disingenuous. Giving a genocidal country bombs for free and then telling them to “use them responsibly” is pretty fucking direct.

hat's avatar

^ Correct. There is about as direct as murder can get.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws The war in Yemen, where were the protests in the US about that? I don’t remember it.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Remember the war in Viet Nam?

jca2's avatar

The OP wrote: “The Vietnam war eventually led to protests in the US, but the US and our soldiers were directly involved in the war (conflict).”

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie “where were the protests in the US about that? I don’t remember it.”

My Google-fu is failing me today. I did find this article detailing a march in Dublin. I remember there was a lot of uproar and opposition to Saudi Arabia coming from the left, though I think the search results seem to be getting drown out by the news at the moment.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws That can be so frustrating when current news dominates the google search. I’ll try to search for it later. Thanks.

JLeslie's avatar

@hat I wasn’t aware of that singular organized day of protests against the Iraq war. So that was one day, did any protests drag on from that day. A continued voice opposing the war that disrupted businesses, streets, and college campuses? I never was very on board with that war. I hoped our government had intelligence beyond what they were releasing to the public (which we know now was full of lies anyway) but to me I could not square 9/11 and going to Iraq, and most everyday people were in favor of the war because of their shock and anger over 9/11. They just put all ME countries in one basket, or something akin to that anyway. We had soldiers dying in the Iraq war. We were physically present in that war.

seawulf575's avatar

Pretty much every time there have been protests it has been about the US being directly involved in a war. There were some protests in favor of Cuba when Fidel Castro took over.

seawulf575's avatar

@hat This is where I get to tickle the dragon’s tail. Who attacked who on 10/7/2023?

hat's avatar

@JLeslie: “I wasn’t aware of that singular organized day of protests against the Iraq war. So that was one day, did any protests drag on from that day.”

I was involved in a bunch of actions in Boston around that time. But after a few months, the antiwar movement gave up hope. The antiwar movement in the US is fairly weak, unorganized, and not usually in it for the long haul.

Just like all of the actions in October 2023 against Israel. Hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets across the country and world. But that got very little coverage in corporate media and it fizzled out.

Most dedicated action is taken by smaller groups (Jewish Voice for Peace, Not in Our Name, etc).

hat's avatar

@seawulf575: “This is where I get to tickle the dragon’s tail. Who attacked who on 10/7/2023?”

You mean, who resisted a brutal occupation of 75 years on 10/7?

You gave yourself up by pretending 107 was the start of anything. How fucking embarrassing.

seawulf575's avatar

@hat Okay, so to you resistance by any means necessary is acceptable. Got it.

Blackwater_Park's avatar

@hat Ok man, while I’m not onboard with Israel’s actions after that event, saying that slaughtering civilians in the worst possible way is “pushing back” is vile.

hat's avatar

@seawulf575: “Okay, so to you resistance by any means necessary is acceptable.”

Absofuckinglutely. You don’t get to judge the actions of on oppressed people because your favorite genocidal state wasn’t the one doing the killing that one day – surprisingly.

Caravanfan's avatar

When I was in college there were lots of protests. I went to Berkeley. At the time the main issues were the USA invasion of Grenada, and then later divestment of South Africa because of the apartheid state.

seawulf575's avatar

@hat So killing mainly civilians, men, women and children, is acceptable. Taking innocents hostage is acceptable. But hey, how do you know all those they killed and/or took hostage were Zionists that you claim are the problem…not the Jews?

JLeslie's avatar

@hat Just wondering if you were fighting an occupation would you be willing to cut women’s breasts off, set babies on fire, gang rape women, would you participate in that? Your gun or knife or dick up a woman’s vagina while others hold her down? Taking a baby and putting it in an oven? Your hands could be the hands putting the baby in the over. You, actually carrying that baby to the oven and flipping the switch?

seawulf575's avatar

Oh, and @hat? Does any means necessary include using your own civilians as human shields to try avoiding retribution? Hiding under hospitals?

hat's avatar

@seawulf575: “So killing mainly civilians, men, women and children, is acceptable”

Nope. You don’t get to decide how a people who have grown up in an outdoor prison that gets bombed regularly reacts.

I don’t have the luxury of condemning them. It is the expected result of an oppressed people.

hat's avatar

@JLeslie – I’m not going to respond to that bullshit, as it’s been debunked. Also irrelevant framing.

seawulf575's avatar

@hat But wait…you just said it was absofuckingly acceptable to do whatever you want in resistance. Now you are saying it isn’t. Which side are you on here? The radical, mad-dog, terrorist side or the side that speaks and doesn’t want to be held to what he says?

hat's avatar

@seawulf575: “Does any means necessary include using your own civilians as human shields to try avoiding retribution? Hiding under hospitals?”

Wow, you’ve been so fucked by your media that you actually repeated that shit.

hat's avatar

@seawulf575 – You realize that Israel is the terrorist here, right? Not sure what the fuck you’re talking about.

seawulf575's avatar

@hat so where are you getting your information? The Hamas hotline? Pretty much everyone else in the world is in line with understanding that Hamas throws its own people under the bus. So seriously…where are you getting your information. That might make it possible for us to understand you better.

And no, I don’t agree with Israel being the terrorists. Terrorists don’t give people the right to elect their own leaders. And if Israel were the actual terrorists and actually set on genocide, they would have marched into the Gaza Strip long before this. As a matter of fact, after one of the attacks by several Muslim nations, Israel ended up with control of the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. They gave them back as part of a peace agreement. That isn’t the act of terrorists either.

Go back and look at history. Since Israel has been a state (1948) pretty much every military event they have had has been initiated by some Muslim country or terrorist group. Hell, Hamas’ own charter says their purpose is to eliminate Israel…you know…genocide.

seawulf575's avatar

Oh, and @hat? You might want to ask why Egypt barred their borders from anyone entering from Gaza. Egypt isn’t an Israel fan, so why are they keeping people from entering their country?

flutherother's avatar

It can’t be considered warfare to drop bombs on women and children and the innocent. It is simply an abomination that should be protested wherever and whenever it happens.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thinking about Kent State.

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother It can’t be considered warfare to storm into another nation and kill a bunch of civilians and then kidnap a bunch more. It is simply terrorism and should be protested whenever it happens.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III But Kent State was a protest against the Viet Nam war, a war the US was involved in.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Sorry. I made a comment about this on the “Columbia campus q.”
It reminds me, of what I was told about the Vietnam War.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Wulf. You keep bringing up Egypt, over accepting refugees.
Egypt is still in the process of getting it’s own government in order. There was this tiny thing called “The Arab Spring.”

Egypt suffers from years of religious conflict, infighting, and all the corruption that comes with restarting a country from a sort of Civil War.
Their plate, is full.

As we don’t want this crisis to spread to the rest of the Middle East, it behooves everyone, to just let Egypt do Egypt right now.
We don’t need them falling into War, as well.

There were ZERO places, for Gazan civilians to flee to.
Which is perhaps the biggest reason people are mad that the IDF used the type of ordinance they did. Unguided bombs, and artillery.
It became a disturbing pattern, that whenever the civilians went to Israeli designated “safe zones,” they were attacked ANYWAY.

Israel has committed a litany of war crimes, and has not walked the talk of being careful about targets.

Even if Egypt was to let the refugees in, it seems likely that Netanyahu would follow, as he has already said he will in Rafah.
There is no benefit for Egypt, in bringing a war into their struggling country.

jca2's avatar

@Dutchess_III The OP mentioned the Vietnam war, she said “The Vietnam war eventually led to protests in the US, but the US and our soldiers were directly involved in the war (conflict).” She’s asking when else.

MrGrimm888's avatar

There are protests all the time.
Some just don’t make headlines.

filmfann's avatar

There were anti-war protests in the United States trying to dissuade the Government from entering World War II, including at U.C. Berkeley in 1940.

Jeruba's avatar

I’m remembering protests in the late 1970s against the rule of the Shah of Iran, Shah Reza Pahlavi. If I’m not mistaken, the protests took place here by people from there: rioting and disrupting the peace here in the U.S. about what was going on back home in their own country.

The Shah eventually fled to Egypt, and the Ayatollah Khomeini took over. The Shah was Iran’s last reigning monarch.

flutherother's avatar

@seawulf575 Terrorism, wherever it happens, should be protested but not replied to in kind. That just takes us back to the dark ages.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Huh. So protecting your borders with walls is a good thing that should be embraced? But what about all the poor helpless civilians that are just trying to get out of the war zone? Egypt is the only place they can go.

seawulf575's avatar

@flutherother So you would be okay with Pro-Israel protests on campuses?

Forever_Free's avatar

I do recall the “Free South Africa” movement in the early 80’s. While it was not War, it certainly was unrest.

janbb's avatar

There were divestiture in South Africa protests on campuses in the US in the 80s or 90s.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Wulf. Comparing the two borders, is possibly the worst analogy you have ever made.
The Egypt-Gaza border, is 7.5 miles long.
“Palestine,” is not even a recognized state/nation, to some. (Should be, to me, yet I digress.)
Refugees from Gaza, are fleeing a VERY active “warzone,” which could easily lead to an Israeli invasion. A REAL invasion. The IDF, under Netanyahu, has been a genocide machine. He has no problem with following his “enemies,” into another sovereign nation.
Which is practically war, on Egypt.
I am NOT surprised though, that you lumped brown/non-Christian people together.
You’re telling me some false profit Podcaster, has talked you into seeing the Israeli response to an attack that left over 1,500 people dead, AND took hostages, and torturing people on Facebook so their families watch, is the same as the US’s southern border crisis?

JLeslie's avatar

^^ Over 130 countries recognize the Palestinian Territory as a state. I don’t remember the exact number.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^The UN, is comprised of 193 nations.
“The state of Palestine, is a “non-member observer state.”

That was not the point of my statement.

The point is that comparing the two international issues, is not a valid analogy.

The only similarities are that non-Christian brown people are being hurt/killed. And some people, really like that/don’t care.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Not sure where you are getting your information from. When has Netanyahu ever said he wants to kill Palestinian civilians? Israel doesn’t hesitate when Hamas hides behind them or under them, that is true. So why does Hamas put Palestinians in harm’s way? But the point I was making is that Egypt doesn’t want Palestinians in their country either. It has nothing to do with some imagined fear of Israel pursuing them across the globe to kill them. They could easily let refugees in. By UN standards they should be letting refugees in. They don’t have to accept Hamas soldiers though.

As for your efforts to defame Christians, you are merely being an ignorant dick. There isn’t a single Christian fighting in the Israel/Gaza issue. None. The fact that you are obsessed with Christianity as some hateful belief and that you are a racist that has to bring skin color into discussions tells me all I need to know about you.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Hey @seawulf575 tell US what you really THINK !

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie When have I not? I usually don’t tell you what you believe I think because I don’t think it.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I have no need to “defame” Christianity.
For future reference, I consider myself far more if an asshole, than a dick. But I don’t mind either.

As for your “imagined fear” of IDF following Gazans into Egypt, there is no imagination required.

Every day, diplomats are talking Netanyahu out if attacking Rafah. The city occupying the area by their Gazan border.
That is where Bibi claims that Hamas fled to. I think that they did actually recover at least one hostage from Rafah.
And. It sounds believable, to me.

The problem, is that Netanyahu is likely going to give Rafah, the “Gaza” treatment. That means unguided bombs, attacks on hospitals, medical workers, doctors, anyone who looks possibly Gazan.

More to the ridiculousness of your analogy, the Gazans are not immigrants. They do not intend to stay in Egypt. They intend to go back to the Strip, and rebuild.
A stark contrast between those people, and the people trying to enter America.
And again, no advanced military has any plans on invading El Paso, to hunt down their “enemies.”

You say Egypt should let the Gazans in. And Egypt definitely factors in the ethnic dilemma.
I too wish Egypt could help.
But. As I said, they are still struggling to become whatever they want to be, following “The Arab Spring.”

America has a border crisis, for the same reason. We can’t organize a reasonable way of taking in such large volumes of people.

You’re asking Egypt to do, what America can’t do.

You can opine until the cows come home, that Christianity has nothing to do with the Israel/Gaza issue.
Who do you think is behind the US’s funding for Israel?
The Christian people in America, believe that that land is sacred as well.
The 3AM time slots on cable are inundated with Christian televangelists, ALL asking for money to help.
And I have to ask, are you Wulf, aware of the term ”making Aliyah?”

“The International Fellowship of Christians and Jews,” is a well known organization.
Right on their statement page, it explains what your donations will be doing.

One of the core reasons for the group is to raise money for “making Aliyah.”
For those who don’t know what this is, I’ll give you their definition.
Making Aliyah”- “Fulfiling biblical prophecy by helping Jews “make Aliyah” (immigrate to Israel) and supporting them before and after their arrival in the Holy Land.”

☆Your two ideologies, are intertwined…..

As a result, it is in EVERY Christians interest, to keep Israel Jewish.

I don’t need to be a theologian, to understand the ties with the Christian people in American government, and the Jews in Israel.

To be fair. The group I mentioned claims only 9% of the donations they receive go towards Jews “making Aliyah.”

The amounts donated by private citizens, combined with right-wing unwavering support for Israel from the US, are what is funding Israeli “defense.”
“Defense,” that periodically calls for massive offensives on their neighbors. Each time getting worse. Each time, leading to civilian casualties, and usually not even resulting in an injured IDF soldier.

NOW, it’s snowballed into what we are currently witness to.
Netanyahu, despite what he says, is definitely using this time, to kill as many Gazans as possible.
How many children do you think they gunned down in Gaza, for throwing rocks at IDF tanks?

LUCKILY, the US has no such neighbors.

But. Because of our country’s religious beliefs, we are THE reason Israel will always be tethered to us.
If/when America is pulled into a massive war in the ME, it will be 100% because of religion.

Don’t worry, I hate ALL organized religion. With excellent reason.

The Christians, are working their way to the top of my shit list.
Because they have to change everything to suit them. And they are very much trying to destroy America, and make it a Christian version of Pakistan.

Race, and ethnicity, are VERY important variables for white Christians in America. That immigrated here with Christians from Europe. Nationalism. Bigotry. Self-righteousness. Entitlement.

These are all worthy things, to protest.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 The problem of comparing nations like Poland or Egypt to the USA is that we don’t have a war going on in the next country over. Not even in several countries away. If Mexico were at war with Guatemala and Mexico had a ton of refugees seeking help, I’d be okay with letting them in. Holding them or at least tracking them, but letting them in. But that is not the situation. The vast numbers we see are not refugees. They are not escaping persecution for the most part (there may be a few). They are just pouring across our border.

As for Israel going into Egypt, that is nothing but fear mongering. Yes, they want to attack the city of Rafah. That is in Palestine, not Egypt. Go back in history: Israel initiates about 0% of the violence they end up in. It is always one or more Arab nations or terrorist groups that attack Israel. Israel has never just invaded another country without being attacked first.
Egypt has not done anything to Israel. There is nothing to be gained diplomatically or tactically by invading Egypt.

And the claims that Israel is looking for Genocide are likewise bogus. They just built a tent city away from the main combat area and are evacuating Palestinian civilians there. That is not the action of uncaring people nor of a people set on genocide.

I’m curious why you are upset by a humanitarian effort like the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. Even the side topic of making Aliyah is a non-sequitur. That applies to Jews wanting to migrate to Israel. Not Christians, not Muslims…Jews. It seems like you are so anti-Semitic that you can’t stand anyone that might work with Israel or help them in any way. And yes, Christians believe in charity. So what? Why does that put them on your shit list?

MrGrimm888's avatar

^I feel that I have nothing left to prove. I rest my case.
You can try and spin my words however you please. But they are in print on this same page.

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