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76 Answers

EmpressPixie's avatar

I saw that! It’s awful. I really loved the guy next door who totally took it as a chance to promote peace, candy for all, and Obama.

That woman, I have no words to describe how upsetting that is. Leave the kids alone!

shilolo's avatar

That is some funny shit. If she lived in my neighborhood, I know what I would have done. Trick it is…

fireside's avatar

I almost wonder if the McCain camp is actively looking for people who want to be publicity hounds.

I think that it is sad for the lady to try and make a point like that on a night that is supposed to be about kids having fun. How many people asking her for candy were of voting age?

SoapChef's avatar

My response? DISGUST!

CelticsFan's avatar

Despicable!! That’s all I can say.

richardhenry's avatar

It isn’t newsworthy, for a start. Sure she’s mean, doesn’t understand the spirit of halloween, and it’s pathetic to try and influence childrens’ political thinking with candy. But it is not newsworthy.

CelticsFan's avatar

I think it is newsworthy…just goes to show how low the republican machine can get…let the people see for themselves how bitter these people are. Kids need to know how to combat this type of behavior in order to better deal with people of this sort that they will encounter in their future

cyndyh's avatar

It just goers to show how out-of-touch-with-reality McCain supporters can be. Wow. What a witch.

wundayatta's avatar

Why didn’t they play tricks on her? It is trick or treat, after all!

come on, let’s go egg that house

Mizuki's avatar

Good Christian Conservative Hate Monger.

CameraObscura's avatar

What she should have done was to force the Obama supporters to share their candy with the kids who were not fortunate enough to make it out.

Mizuki's avatar

@Camera—forced sharing, interesting.

wondersteph's avatar

@CelticsFan…I’m sorry, but I don’t think it’s right to say “just goes to show how low the republican machine can get.” This is one woman, not an entire party. It’s unfair to justify how low a party could stoop based upon one woman’s actions.
Yes, the woman’s crazy, but I would think there could be this type of people on either side of the election.

CameraObscura's avatar


Get used to it. The only news worth posting here is that which fits their worldview.

asmonet's avatar


Give the kid a tootsie roll. Christ.

Mizuki's avatar

camera, please stop switching from one profile to another to support your own arguements….

CameraObscura's avatar


Interested to hear how you came to the conclusion I’m “switching profiles”...

wondersteph's avatar

I’m beginning to see that.
I’m just suggesting that it’s important to look at both sides. Each side’s supporters have flaws and crazy people. Be tolerant. There’s so much that the media doesn’t report, so how could you know for sure there haven’t been Democratic stunts like this going on as well?

cheebdragon's avatar

Oh look they are posting at the same time, there goes that dumbass theory…

asmonet's avatar

I don’t care really, but it’s possible to be logged in under two names, Cheeb.

CameraObscura's avatar

Yes, I’m liberal under one name and conservative under the other. Makes sense.

SoapChef's avatar

‘look they are posting at the same time, there goes that dumbass theory…’
Don’t you love the word “dumbass”?

asmonet's avatar

@Camera: Demosthenes and Locke.

wondersteph's avatar

Who are we even talking about that’s posting at the same time?

CameraObscura's avatar

@asmonet- Sorry, don’t understand.

@wonder- You and I…

wondersteph's avatar

Um, nope.
Pretty sure that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard all day.

richardhenry's avatar

[Fluther Moderator:] Further off-topic chatter will be removed, let’s get things back on the rails please.

richardhenry's avatar

@CelticsFan: I’m not a McCain fan, but that woman clearly does not represent the McCain campaign. Not all of their supporters are like that. I don’t see how it’s an item of national or even regional interest.

wondersteph's avatar

Thank you, richardhenry.

lapilofu's avatar

I’d just like to say: dumb ass-theory.

Also, for those who didn’t catch it, asmonet was making an Orson Scott Card literary reference and thereby winning my heart.

Knotmyday's avatar

Less trips to the dentist for Obama supporter ‘s kids !

edit- all jokes aside, still a rotten way to foist ones political beliefs. She sucks.

Skaggfacemutt's avatar

I can’t imagine what kind of point she was trying to make. She succeeded in alienating everyone – Obama supporters for the obvious and McCain supporters for making them look stupid.

dalepetrie's avatar

To respond to a couple points people made:

#1 – I think it’s newsworthy in as much as any human interest story is newsworthy. For my money it’s no less newsworthy than when some celebutard goes out on public without her panties. If people are interested enough to read/watch/discuss a story, then it is in some small way newsworthy.

#2 – I don’t agree that it’s not permissable to post something here that does not fit the worldview of the moderators and/or the majority of those who post on here. Indeed, I’ve seen the heavy hand of moderator justice fall far more frequently on people with whom the mods agree ideologically. I feel this is a true forum for your expression, but one must realize that one will be challenged if he/she speaks against the conventional wisdom, such is life.

#3 – Any candidate no matter what side has supporters who cross the line in some way or another, I’ll agree with that. However I dispute the idea that the media is liberal and in the tank for Obama to the point where is a Democrat had done the same thing somewhere in the country, we wouldn’t know about it by now. This is the type of thing that makes the rounds on the blogosphere, and Drudge would have been all over this.

My opinions on this are -

1) This person is not representative of all McCain supporters any more than I am representative of all Obama supporters. But she IS a visualization of the depths to which some McCain supporters are sinking, and I think the reason we are seeing things like this DOES indeed say something about the way McCain ran his campaign. When I see her, I think the same thing I think about the people who dress up little monkeys in an Obama hat, name them little Obama and bring them to Palin rallies. Or people who beat themselves up, carve backwards letters on their cheeks and say some random black Obama supporter did it. No, these people do not “represent” the McCain campaign, but they are a natural outcropping of a campaign which has been run not on the issues, not on the reasons why I as a voter SHOULD vote for McCain, but based on fear, aka the reasons I as a voter should be AFRAID to vote for Barack Obama. I received 3 more (that makes 7) mailers on Saturday telling me various reasons why voting for Obama would destroy life as we know it. These things don’t work on me because I understand the issues and I understand my ideology. And someone who is intelligent, who has a conservative ideology would not be convinced if Obama were to have run a campaign trying to scare people away from voting for McCain. What these things do is they reach out to that lunatic fringe, and encourage the worst types of behavior. This woman said, “Obama is scary,” she has been scared away from voting for this person, she has not been convinced by McCain’s superior positions on the issues, and because now she’s in a situation where on Halloween, 4 days before she is faced with the prospect of this radical Muslim who surely wants to enslave us all and turn us into Socialists (which I’m sure to her mind is the same thing as Communists) becoming President, she’s acting in desperation. So to revisit my first point, it is newsworthy if you see it as symptomatic of a bigger problem, one which could literally cause great social upheaval and unrest should every last unbalanced loon decide that Tuesday’s results are not just to be viewed as “we lost, move on”, but as “oh my God, life as we know it is over,” then you can see where this might be a dangerous harbinger.

2) She sees what she is doing as “campaigning”, but the fact that the people she is campaigning “to” can not vote, should be the first indicator to her that it’s time to check her meds.

3) Using someone else’s kids as a pawn in your own ideological games is dispicable regardless of what side it comes from.

4) As a parent, I know that even if I were “persuadable” on an issue, I certainly would not be persuaded to change my mind on anything by a person who took it upon herself to punish my child for my beliefs/actions. If she really thinks she’s campaigning, she should realize that there is a 0% possibility that she will drum up any votes this way, but the possibility is greater than 0% that it will actually cost votes.

5) She’s in a state that has 0% chance of going to McCain anyway, so her assertion that she is campaigning is ludicrous on the surface.

6) That said, it’s her right to hand out candy or not hand out candy to anyone as she sees fit. The kids don’t have a right to candy, but you know, it’s not just about the candy…if it were we’d all go down to Target and buy our kids 5 bags of fun sized candy bars and keep them at home. It’s a tradition, one that should not be tainted by partisanship.

7) As I said, what she did is her choice, just like she said the parents of the kids who didn’t get the candy were making a choice. Now that wasn’t the kids’ choice, and kids just pick up what their parents say at that point, they have yet to form an independent and well thought out opinion in most cases if they are still young enough to be trick or treating and anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would know that. But just as the parents made a choice, and she made a choice, it’s up to anyone else to make the choice to put her ignorant ass on TV, to TP her house, to call her or send her email suggesting what she can do with her candy, to openly mock her in public and to do a little victory dance on her lawn on Wednesday morning (if anyone from Michigan is reading, I’m just sayin…).

jvgr's avatar

She’s simply a mean old woman.

wrestlemaniac3's avatar

Boys!!! Job oppurtunity, alpha team cover right, beta, left. give us the address, and we’ll give her a little trick-or-treat to remember. hahahahahahahah!

jvgr's avatar

If you want to know about the woman (a republican delagate for Michigan), you can go HERE
(You can even vote on here as well)

Nimis's avatar

Although if this campaign is any proof, Republicans don’t know about the internet.

Okay, obviously not true as there are Republicans here. But still funny nonetheless.

wrestlemaniac3's avatar

hey…easy there.

CameraObscura's avatar

In response to Dale’s points

#1) I don’t particularly care whether it’s newsworthy.

#2) I don’t understand where you’re going with this. Are you implying that the moderation here does not have a liberal slant? I’d be willing to bet that every moderator able to vote in the upcoming election will be voting Obama. The story you pointed out got people riled up, as you wanted. Where are you coming up with the idea that it does not fit the worldview of the membership?

If this is in response to my statement, my point was that I could log on and post a dozen or more “questions” pointing out Obama supporters gone mad but I’m uninterested in looking like a blind McCain/Palin kool-aid drinker.

#3) The media is very clearly in the tank for Obama, as indicated here by two separate non-partisans, The Center for Media and Public Affairs and The Project for Excellence in Journalism.

Comments made by sources, voters, reporters and anchors that aired on ABC, CBS and NBC evening newscasts over the past two months reflected positively on Obama in 65 percent of cases, compared with 31 percent of cases with regards to McCain, according to the Center for Media and Public Affairs

Drudge would have picked this up. Really? Then why isn’t drudge covering San Fransico liberal KGO radio host “Karel” saying “F—k G-d damn Joe the G-d damn m——-f——ing Plumber. I want m——-f——ing Joe the Plumber dead”

And the opinions:

1) This person is not representative of all Obama supporters any more than I am representative of all MaCain supporters. But he IS a visualization of the depths to which some Obama supporters are sinking, and I think the reason we are seeing things like this DOES indeed say something about the way Obama ran his campaign.

Simple copy and paste. Now true, the Obama camp did not have some moron carve an “M” into her face, but if you’re seriously going to debate this issue and fight a competition of which side has a more nutty lunatic fringe, go ahead. I’ll pass. I can’t think of anything less interesting. As to the comments of some McCain supporters saying Obama’s “scary” or “Muslim”... yeah it’s wrong but let’s not act like worse things have not been said about McCain and Palin on this very site.

2)Everyone agrees she’s a moron.
3)Everyone agrees she’s a moron.
4)Everyone agrees she’s a moron.
5)Everyone agrees she’s a moron.
6)Everyone agrees she’s a moron.
7)Everyone agrees she’s a moron.

EmpressPixie's avatar

@Nimis: oh my god, or the iPhone. Seriously. Have you seen Obama’s iPhone app? It is AMAZING. I haven’t heard of a similar McCain app.

Nimis's avatar

Hahahaha…I’m not even sure how to spell out
that sound that he makes. But it is awesome.

shilolo's avatar

@Camera. As far as your point about the liberal bias in the media, for this election in particular, it would be impossible to tease out cause and effect. Everyone agrees that Obama has run an effective and efficient campaign (even people who want to see him lose), while many people (Republicans alike) have noted that the McCain campaign has been very disorganized. In addition, the combination of McCain-Palin has created way more opportunity for criticism than Obama-Biden.

No one forced McCain to retreat from his past as an independent thinker to pander to the religious right. The hypocrisy of a so-called maverick doing the exact opposite is clearcut, and worth discussion at every moment. Likewise, no one forced McCain to ask a (clearly unqualified) person to be his running mate. She has, appropriately, been the focal point of many critiques. That isn’t liberal bias as much as responsible journalism. For someone who could easily be president to not even understand what the vice president does (amongst thousands of gaffes) is astounding.

McCain made his bed, now he just has to lay in it.

McCain really has only himself to blame. If he had stuck to his guns as a “maverick” in stead of hiring former Bushies, and made a more responsible VP choice, this election would be neck-and-neck.

dalepetrie's avatar

@Camera -

First off, you weren’t the one who said it wasn’t newsworthy, not everything I said was directed at you, never even mentioned your name in fact.

Second, where I’m going with this is that you stated “The only news worth posting here is that which fits their worldview.” I beg to differ and have seen the moderators (not to be confused with moderates which you seem to be doing), have pulled far more liberal rants than conservative rants (a function of the fact that there are more liberals here).

Re the liberal “bias”, bullshit. You can pull up any number of studies you want about negative coverage vs. positive coverage, and to that I will say, Obama has run a mostly positive campaign, he has mostly told people why to vote for him. Coverage will be reflective of that. McCain has run a mostly negative campaign, mostly focusing on why people should be afraid to vote for Obama. The coverage will reflect that.

As for your Joe the Plumber quote, I don’t know who said it or in what context, but if we’re going to talk about what every pissant radio talk show in America has said, what about the conservative who said last week that Obama wants to gas the Jews. You can tit for tat all you want on this, but the fact is, that’s what the blogosphere DOES…it picks up on examples to make the other side look worse, both sides do it.

As for your rejection of my points, well if I’m hearing you right, you’re saying that getting angry and swearing about Joe the Plumber is the same as teasing kids with the promise of candy then refusing to give it to them because of what their parents are planning to do next week, I’m sorry, but I fail to see the similarities. You can say you won’t go into a back and forth about all the bad things Obama supporters have done to McCain supporters, it’s a convenient way to make your argument without having to actually put up any facts to support it. My point remains, McCain has incited nastiness and fear, Obama has not courted it in the same way. It doesn’t mean there aren’t many sincere, thoughtful people who support McCain, it just means that he’s courted the crazy fearmonger vote (suscessfully) and now we are seeing far more evidence of what he has wrought by so doing.

No argument with you on 2–7, though.

Mizuki's avatar

can we pass the plate and get camera some valium?

SoapChef's avatar

@ camera
Two things.
1. The kool-aid analogy is wearing thin.
2. Don’t try to debate with dalepetrie, you’ll lose everytime.

dalepetrie's avatar

Oh yes, and one other question I neglected to ask.

In what way does “What is your reaction to this? I’m just curious what people think about it?” indicate that I wanted to get people riled up? Personally, I don’t think Halloween is a time for partisanship and I’d be just as disgusted if I’d seen an Obama supporter do this. In fact, I didn’t even post my opinion until there were 30some responses. I asked a question I wanted to know the answer to, if you got riled up, that’s on you, not me.

If you legitimately want to not be seen as a McCain/Palin Kool-Aid drinker, I’d suggest that you don’t make blanket statements and then say “but I’m not going to post any evidence because all you meanies will yell at me and call me biased.”

I guarantee you that you could easily find half a dozen conservative members of fluther who will tell you that when I debate, I do it fairly, and that I respect the opinions of others even if I do not agree with them. Bottom line, if you want to engage in a debate of the facts, I’m more than happy to do so, and I will not call you names or shout you down. But I will stand my ground and fight for the opinions I believe in, I will provide examples and analysis to prove my points, and I will agree to disagree when there is an impasse. But I’m not about to mock or belittle you or do any of the things you pre-emptively suggest I am doing. So if you have an argument to make, let’s hear it. Or continue to dismiss 6 of 7 of my points and come off to others like an unbalanced partisan. Your choice.

asmonet's avatar

Chirst, Dale, the more you post the more I think you could achieve a world record for fastest typing.

I mean that in a nice way.

AlfredaPrufrock's avatar

“Yes, Dorothy, the Wicked Witch IS still alive, and living in Gross Point Farms, MI”

CameraObscura's avatar

The newsworthy comment was not meant to be derogatory, I was simply stating that it’s newsworthiness held no importance to me.

I’m not trying to tit for tat on the fringe issue, my point was that I’m just so sick of the people on this site seemingly only paying attention to news stories which reinforce their opinions. If you thought the Halloween story deserved a “question” here, why not ask the opinions of people on any number of potential negatives for the Obama camp? I could ask this of dozens of people here, who ask “questions” on a daily basis about negatives with McCain. Some of them I believe are truly looking for an answer, most are simply spamming this site with Democratic rhetoric and talking points.

Case in point- What kind of answers were you truly expecting to receive about some loony bitch refusing to give out candy to Obama supporting children? What can one possibly say about this? This is a news story simply because of how stupid the issue is.

asmonet's avatar

@Camera: He dd ask our thoughts, whether it was about the newsworthiness of the video, the woman, how it effects anyone, etc. I think it was valid. Like Dale said, I really cannot remember a post of his that was negative about anything, without having something legitimate to back it up. It seems, just this once you were on the defensive to begin with.

@dalepatire: I’d re-add you to my fluther if I could. Well said. :)

@Nimis: mreeeehh, ouch, my friends, stop it! mreeehhh

jlm11f's avatar

without getting too deep into the conversation, i do want to point out that we would discuss more anti-obama stories if more republicans posted Qs about them like dp just did here. for example, if you find such a story to do w/ a democrat and/or obama supporter, why not link to it and just ask (without stating your own opinion…like dp did) what we think of it. You cannot blame the collective for discussing only one side of issues if you don’t work to bring up the other side.

shilolo's avatar

@PnL. There have been several posts like that lately, mainly relating to “open letters to Obama”.

Nimis's avatar


AlfredaPrufrock's avatar

I find this type of behavior to be really interesting, because I feel that it is a by-product of Sarah Palin’s participation in the election process. John McCain said today that Sarah Palin “ignites America.” And indeed she does. In an odd way, she may be single-handedly responsible for largest voter turn-out in this country. And she does ignite America—like Devil’s Night in Detroit, she ignites America.

I’m sure Mrs. Nagel would never in her life believe herself to be capable of something so mean-spirited if someone asked her a year ago.

finkelitis's avatar

To return to the original question: I don’t think it’s particularly newsworthy, and in general it’s not fair to judge an ideology by its wackos (until they become sufficiently numerous). At the same time there’s a way to read her behavior as following the example of the Bush white house, and the republican majority after 2002. Under them, we saw a breakdown in bi-partisanship like never before. The orders came down that only people with the right republican credentials could be hired for any jobs at all. There was an all out effort to exclude democrats from any part of the political process.

This woman is following that example—if you’re not with me, I won’t share with you at all.

dalepetrie's avatar

To answer the question -

“If you thought the Halloween story deserved a “question” here, why not ask the opinions of people on any number of potential negatives for the Obama camp?”

#1 – This was a recent story that just came to my attention, no similar story from the other direction caught my attention today

#2 – I’m not a journalist, I make no promises that my posts will always be balanced, only that they will be fair

#3 – I have yet in the 21 months of this campaign to see behavior by an Obama supporter that disgusts me as much as this woman’s actions do

#4 – I wanted to know the answer to THAT question, therefore I asked it. It’s not rocket science and the only real rules against posting questions that I’m aware of are if you put your obvious slant on it in a way that incites negativity. For example, if I had asked, tell me what you think about this looney Republican bitch, that might have run afoul of the standards. But I just asked what people thought because I wanted opinions.

I’m not spamming, I was not spinning the question, and how do I know what answers I’ll get until I ask the question. I indeed posted some answers in my opinions that someone could have left, such as, it’s her right to give or refuse candy to anyone she wants. I never said you had to agree with me, nor did I give one modicum of insight as to what agreeing with me would be.

So, take out your anger on the people who ask the anti McCain questions. I on the other hand don’t think I’ve asked a question in 3 weeks or more, so to invoke your ire for being part of a pattern, is ludicrous.

CelticsFan's avatar

Dale your name should be butter, cuz you’re on a roll babyyyyyyy!!!!

AlfredaPrufrock's avatar

@dalepetrie, this is really getting interesting. Here’s Mrs. Nagel on September 4th doing volunteer work with care packages for Gustav victims.

Her decision on Halloween seems a little out of character, perhaps?

dalepetrie's avatar

That does seem really interesting, I mean clearly she couldn’t volunteer to help people in need during a hurricane and ask them if they were Obama supporters before she helped them, could she? Theories? Maybe she would have asked them if she could have. Maybe Maybe she felt she had to because McCain made such a big deal out of it. Or most likely, she was riding high on the RNC at that time, but now that her candidate is so behind she’s kind of flipped and is acting out of desperation…that would be my bet. Or maybe before the RNC she had a more favorable opinion of Obama and Democrats in general, and McCain’s negative ads about how scary Obama has scared the bejeezus out of her so much that she has come to view Dems as somehow less than human. Hence my point earlier about how there seem to be so many Republicans just absolutely doing things that no rational person would do. Or maybe she’s just a random loon.

augustlan's avatar

I think in the hub-bub people may have overlooked JVR’s link in his response up there^. This woman was a DELEGATE at the RNC! That makes this all the more news-worthy and despicable.

TaoSan's avatar

Why is everyone so shocked? The poor woman is just being in line with her party’s modus operandi…

Isn’t that how the RNC conducts all their business???? Give her props, a true Republican true to her party’s convictions and patterns.

dalepetrie's avatar

I did gloss over her being a delegate. You see, this is what I mean. I have no problem with anyone being for McCain if that’s the direction they want the country to go, but I watched both conventions. The DNC was by and large very positive, there were certainly some “more of the same”, “Bush’s 3rd term”, etc. attacks, but I expect that kind of thing, just like I’d expect the RNC to talk about Obama being a “tax and spender” or “inexperienced” or whatever substantive (though debatable) political argument they wanted to select. But here’s what I saw.

They had people (namely 9ui11iani and Palin) up there mocking community servants.

Cindy McCain bragged about her expensive outfit.

One delegate said on national TV that we should bomb Iran and take their oil. He later picked up some random woman who drugged him and robbed him of $150k worth of jewelry and cash (who has that much of value on them in their hotel room)?

One delegate complained on the daily show about their cancelling the first day of the convention to help out with the aftermath of Gustav, “I don’t understand why it is that all of a sudden we can’t tell the truth about Barack Obama [name spoken very derisively], just because some people are gettin’ rained on.”

Now we have another delegate refusing candy to 4 year olds if their parents don’t vote for McCain.

I’m all about helping people in need, but the way they approached Gustav, making a huge brouhaha about how we’re going to put “country first” and cancel our first day of our convention (though it was really just “scaled back”), it struck me as more “PR” than genuine human concern, and I’m thinking again, this woman is symptomatic of that. Not saying no Republicans are generous, caring people, but it seems to me that the highly partisan members of the party who I saw have just been 100% self serving people who don’t give a damn about anything that doesn’t affect them personally.

Mizuki's avatar

Mrs. Nagel is a roll model of what defines a real Republican, heil McCain!

asmonet's avatar

Heehee, is she sourdough?

Knotmyday's avatar

She should be jammed!

aneedleinthehayy's avatar

Anyone notice that on the ‘Obama for Peace’ sign, the peace sign was drawn incorrectly.
That made me lol.

EmpressPixie's avatar

There are two ways to draw a peace sign—that is one of them, though the less common one. It is still correct.

lapilofu's avatar

@Empress: I’m curious what your source is for the two correct ways of drawing a peace sign. I know that, at least initially, the peace sign only had one form—which came from the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament in 1958. I’ve never heard of another form.

(Though I should clarify that I believe that as long as a symbol is used by people and its meaning is commonly understood, then it is “correct” in any sense of the word that matters. I’ve just never seen the peace sign drawn like that.)

fireside's avatar

here is another way to draw a peace sign.

EmpressPixie's avatar

I’ll try to find you a source. I know that I’ve tried to call someone on that one being incorrect before and they were able to source me, so it shouldn’t be too hard. (I hope.)

asmonet's avatar

Nope only one, apparently . But I think it’s one of those symbols that if you get it wrong, is someone really gonna pick a fight?

wrestlemaniac3's avatar

Ready and waiting (sharpens sword)

flutherother's avatar

The kid said it best “That lady is mean!”

kitchi1's avatar

That is so wrong! How cruel is that!! Poor kids, all they wanted to do was have fun and go trick-or-treating on Halloween. The old witch!

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