FEMA and Martial Law... even Mtv is putting out "caution" commercials?

The first bell that’s been set off in my mind is the fact that this is distributed by or with the consent of Alex Jones. You can, and should I suggest, look further into him and his credibility to help form your opinion on the facts he presents in that video. Personally I feel he doesn’t have a lot of credibility, as he has strongly associated himself with the Loose Change documentary regarding the September 11th attacks, and I like others do not believe that the claims in that documentary are true. I spent a minute watching the linked video and I came out of it completely non-impressed nor concerned about this supposed martial law uprising.

yeah this alex jones character seems like a bit of a sensationalist. And for the whole holocaust advertisement, they are probably unrelated… I think MTV would be the last place to warn me of an impending goverment take over… And also look at FEMAs ability to achieve anything during katrina. That organization cant even handle a hurricane, let alone a goverment take over. People have been paranoid of FEMA for years, they really arnt what people think they are. Also I watched that video from Alex Jones, and looked up that PDD 51 document, it doesnt say anything about anyone being a dictator.. sounds like Alex is stretching the truth again.

I will start worrying when generals in the army are the ones giving the warnings, not uninformed civilians.

Alright, I regret having picked out a video with Alex Jones talking since his credibility seems to be a highlight of the responses so far (I chose it ‘cause there were multiple videos mentioning the coffins, but I wanted one that was more focused), but how about the reason for those coffins, the actual subject?

I think that’s something that can’t just be shrugged off. There are a lot of them, and whether the “information” about them is wrong or not, I’d like to have a heads up on, if the conspiracy theorists are wrong, then why are they there in the first place? It seems like such a ridiculous amount to me.

@toyhyena i would say the coffins are for in case there is another huge natural disaster or something to that effect. Its a bit more humane then throwing everyone in a big hole dontcha think?

I think you do not have to worry after January 20. An Obama Administration will mean a new head of Homeland Security, a new head of FEMA, and a very smart President who will not allow this sort of nonsense (should it be a serious threat which I do not believe it is.)

I can’t comment on those without the true context of the situation, which is amazingly enough not provided with the video! Gasp! It’s almost like they WANT you to get riled up about this.

Seriously though, there’s a key issue here: do a search for “plastic coffins” and ALL you get is Alex Jones going on and on about it, or people discussing Alex Jones discussing it, etc. That sets off my skeptical bell big time.

While I do admit there is something interesting about half a million plastic coffins located in Georgia since the summer of this year, I hardly think it’s cause for alarm or concern. I mean, half a million plastic coffins is a far cry from 300 million plastic coffins. It’s much more logical to assume something like uberbatman has said.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=277826260716604258 there are supposedly 800 camps like this one scattered about, but I've yet to find a truly credible source. Still, I can see for myself the setup, and that's what troubles me; that it's physically there.

Also, there aren’t just coffin stacks in the Georgia one, there are supposedly stacks outside of the Alaskan facility which is, supposedly, the largest camp.

Conspiracy theories are not painless. They take you away from the concerns of real life. You can’t find stuff about it, BECAUSE THERE IS NO CREDIBLE MATERIAL. What conspiracy theory thrives on is that one can’t prove a negative.

Take a deep breath and just walk away. There is so much real in the world that you can do and think about that is positive and will make a difference.

So basically the gist I’m getting here, is that it’s unreasonable to be interested in something that I can see for myself, just because of the people trying to “expose” it are considered radical?

That’s like me saying, “hey, this picture of a puppy is cute right? I wonder who the breeder was?” and then the response being, “the people that took that photo are known as crazed animal admirers and probably stole it, so move on.” I’m still going to think that picture is cute and want to know where I can get one (that isn’t stolen anyway).

Does that make any sense? I suck with analogies. I truly wish there actually was an unbiased source, ‘cause I can’t trust the government, I can’t trust the media, I can’t trust other people, and I can’t trust the people that claim to trying to be exposing something because they apparently are aware of other stuff that makes them come across as alarmists (or they are, by nature, lumped in the “tinfoil hat” group).

I feel like all I really have are taking note of consistencies, and sample size (of multiple sources.)

And let’s not forget that our own troops are being trained to disarm and apprehend civilians, incase of “civil unrest” or something. That information is totally easy to find. Does it not add up in your mind? You don’t need to be an anything-theorist to wonder about that. I mean, among other things that may be involved as well.

@toyhyena: have you seen plastic coffins and FEMA camps, or are you just going on what the sensationalists are reporting?

See, I was concerned too, when I first heard about this. You’d think that if there were 800 camps scattered about—that’s 16 per state, about 1–5/6 per Congressional district—that they’d be a little bit more obvious, that I’d be able to find one. Hell, I live in a nice liberal part of the country—you’d think that if the Bush administration were going to declare martial law, move dissidents to concentration camps, and kill the real problem cases, there would be several camps not far from the People’s Republic of Cambridge. And maybe I could drive out to one and get warned away by Homeland Security. But no, no such luck. The alarmists concerned about the 800 or so FEMA camps being built could not tell me where any of them were.

You want me to believe? Find me concrete evidence. All you’ve got now has been put out by the alarmists and whackjobs in the tinfoil-hat constituency.

Until then, the straightforward explanation is that our troops are being deployed in situations like Iraq, where they have to deal with insurgencies rather than with conventional warfare. Troops are always trained to fight the last war; I’m hardly surprised that soldiers are being trained to deal with civilians, because that’s what they’re doing in Iraq now, for the most part.

Do you really think a government that couldn’t keep Watergate quiet, that couldn’t keep the Iran-Contra affair quiet, that couldn’t keep the President’s sex life from becoming a national scandal—do you think they could carry out something like this on such a national scale without someone credible leaking the information? The conspiracy theory requires that everybody who knows about the plans is in perfect lockstep—and that none of them will have second thoughts and turn into a new Deep Throat for a new Woodward and Bernstein. That, I think, strains credibility well past the breaking point.

For better or worse, I’ve spent a lot of time over the past year poring over stuff like this (with 9/11 as a starting point), and I would say that both (or the three) points of view presented here are both right and wrong in some aspects.

I will say that I understand where you are coming from. After watching this, this, and this video, I believe having seen with my own two eyes that 9/11 was made to happen. I also see just about every day airplanes that are spraying chemtrails across the sky (although I am still reserving judgement completely on whether that’s good or bad until I read about what’s in them). I also see now the fraud of the Federal Reserve banking system and our economic crisis. And, I know that once you see it, it is very difficult if not impossible to “unsee.”

One thing that might assuage your fear is that information about FEMA camps goes back to the early ‘90s. Here’s one video that touches on the subject. I personally believe that FEMA is a tool of a secret and evil agenda, and I think the wool that’s being pulled over our eyes is that FEMA is incompetent (and the Bush administration in general) when, in “fact,” there are agendas for population control, corporatism, and a systematic plan to erode our rights. Viewed in that light, they are succeeding with the War on of Terror and the financial crisis redistribution of wealth.

With all respect to Marina and her feelings about Obama, I don’t think we’re going to see progress, but it has less to do with him personally than the forces at play behind the scenes. I’ve argued this point with her before, and I don’t mean to belabor it, but some of life’s “real problems” are engineered (for example, poverty in third world nations), and putting one’s energy into fixing them ($1/day) perpetuates the existence of the problem.

I don't have great answers, unfortunately, but I do have a couple of resources. I've come to like projectcamelot.org and this document in particular from thecrowhouse.com.

I would say to you (and this is coming from the crowhouse document as well as just about any book of wisdom) is that this all boils down to fear and love. Fear is what is peddled in the social sphere whether it’s the media, politics, religion or what have you. Fear triggers our subconscious mind to react, and it is a tool for control. Fear is what leads to the belief that we are separate from each other and our Creator. And fear is what roots us on this plane of existence with all it’s evils. Love (and forgiveness), on the other hand, sets us free from these bonds—read the document.

So, IMHO, Marina is right that paying attention to this stuff is bad for you (and the planet), but so is a “well intended” attachment toward “fixing the problem.” The problem is believing that the problem is real instead of maintaining an awareness of our common creation.

Now if I’d only practice what I’d preach…

@cwilbur: http://www.sianews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1062 has a list of supposed locations. Of course I haven't personally gone to any myself, but it's interesting that someone's come up with a somewhat specific list.

Skipping ahead, with all of these replies, I’ll take the sound advice to just move on. Realistically, there isn’t anything I could do about it anyway, and just like politics, it just gets me pissed off (when, it’s true, I can be doing something positive instead).

And Kevbo, we seem to be on a similar wavelength in terms of checking things out, and the whole fear/love thing (which I’d like to say I know a thing or two about). I’ll definitely check your links.

Thanks for everyone’s thoughts.

Well, I hate to burst your bubble but why is this whole martial law conspiracy thing a much more believable explanation for the coffins then something more practicle like, the coffins are part of a contigency plan that exsist for the worst case scenarios that could play out any where or all over the country.
The goverment is notorious for having 1000s of contigency plans for possible scenarios, and most of those are classified. That makes a lot more sense then a goverment take over. Plus as mentioned before the coordination to actually pull something like that off, you would need lots of people on the inside scoope, like politicians, military brass, cheifs of police, ect ect. And you would need to make sure all these people were on the same page. Thats why I said if someone like a general started warning us about something like that, I would be worried because they would be more likely to be in the know on a goverment take over than your common youtuber.

@LKidKyle1985 Good answer! FEMA stores coffins because it deals with natural diasasters. The Wiki cites the death toll from Katrina at “At least 1,836 people lost their lives in the actual hurricane”.

There is more than one natural disaster every year. They need plentiful, cheap coffins that can be rushed in to deal with these tragedies.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar (or in this case innocuous coffin).

Thanks, I also want to say, I don’t want to discourage you guys for being curious or investigative, thats what keeps things like a goverment take over impracticle to do, but don’t let paranoia and fear out weigh logic and reason.

Here is a great documentary from 1987 from Bill Moyers. Still relevant today. Just thought it may add to the topic.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/film/?Film=93&Title=The_Secret_Government:_The_Constitution_in_Crisis

I don’t think anyone should rule out any possibilities. As long as there are people there will be lies, so following your leaders blindly is stupid.

http://www.kbr.com/news/2006/govnews_060124.aspx
KBR Awarded U.S. Department of Homeland Security Contingency Support Project for Emergency Support Services

KBR is the engineering and construction subsidiary of Halliburton (NYSE:HAL).

At 2:46 in this video from CNBC on Jan. 5, Henry Kissinger says it is a task of Obama’s to create a New World Order.
George HW Bush, Nicholas Sarkozy, and Turkish President Abdullah Gul have all called for a New World Order.

Albert Einstein wrote an essay called Towards A World Government, in which he is in favor of a one world government to control all military due to the availability of weapons of mass destruction. In the same book I have of his writings, there is a rebuttal to his calling for a one world government, saying “In the motley company of proponents of this idea, besides out-and-out imperialists who are using it as a screen for unlimited expansion, there are quite a number of intellectuals in the capitalist countries who are captivated by the pausibility of this idea, and who do not realize its actual implications.”
“In the first place, the idea of a “world government” and “superstate” are by no means products of the atomic age. They are much older than that. They were mooted, for instance, at the time of the League of Nations was formed.”
“And now proponents of a “world super-state” are asking us voluntarily to surrender this independence for the sake of a “world government,” which is nothing but a flamboyant signboard for world supremacy of the capitalist monopolies.”

Keep in mind, this was all written in 1947.

Oh and as far as laws go.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s110-1959
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/19/opinion/19mon3.html
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_public_laws&docid=f:publ366.109.pdf
http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/doj/fisa/
http://www.bordc.org/threats/hr5122.php

On my last post, those quotes are not from Einstein, but are a rebuttal from 4 intellectuals to his essay, Towards a World Government.

Congressman Denied Access to Continuation of Government Plan

Pentagon to Detail Troops to Bolster Domestic Security
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/30/AR2008113002217.html?hpid=topnews

Sorry for multiple posts. Last one, I promise.

Congress plans to restore Japanese internment camps
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/06/news/camps.php

@Chris: that KBR link is totally relevant and I missed it…to add to it, I have this related article.

I also really liked that NYtimes article, and the Washington Post one (surprisingly, both pretty good sources to boot!) I don’t think that very last one is relevant though, because it just seems like a harmless restoration, like museum stuff you know?

For anyone interested, there are people that have gone to these alleged sites and checked them out for themselves (thank god for the proactively curious, heh). What they find, you can see for yourself (yes, youtube. Hey, I happen to think, like the internet itself, it’s an excellent cesspool with honest gems in it. That’s how it goes with popularity.)

I looked at the list of supposed sites, and my Son lives 5 minutes from one, actually plays baseball and YMCA soccer on the closed Air Base they mention…no camp there. I go to Annual Training at another that is mentioned…no “new space for 40,000 prisoners” there, either. Of course, I could be part of it….

@kevbo:
“chemtrails”?? are you talking about the frozen contrails of jet exhaust?

Yeah, the ones mentioned in the congressional record.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.2977.IH:

Obviously, feel free to disagree. I don’t know how old you are, but do you remember the skies looking like this when you were younger?

huh…I work with a guy who believes that, but he also believes in mind control weapons, that he was abducted by aliens, and that he can see people’s souls leave their bodies when they die. Who knows, maybe he’s right.

If you swallow a few things, down becomes up and up becomes down and it’s very easy to go overboard.

@jholler: I’ll bet your coworker makes for some gnarly interesting conversation. From what I know, that stuff’s pretty much all related, but most people don’t… err…

how about this, when DMT: The Spirit Molecule movie/documentary comes out, maybe you’ll be able to understand your coworker better :D (he might not be as crazy as you might think he is).

@toyhyena theyre making a movie/doc?

@batman: That’s my understanding of it :D At the moment it’s “low-budget”, but it looks like he has a really decent speaker list (even Joe Rogan’s supposedly on it, lol), so my hopes are high that it’s a thorough and easily digestible exposure to the public (who should be aware of it, since hardly anyone has heard of it, and well, it’ll probably change a lot of peoples’ perspectives on things. For the better, imo). I think it’s still in the early works, but I kinda doubt it’ll appear in theaters and all that. We’ll see though.

hmm thanks for that bit of info toyhyena ill keep an eye out.

It is kind of funny. People disregard what “conspiracy therorist” say right off the top because they don’t have documented proof. If it is a “stste” secret do they really think the gov will just hand over the documented proof? And they call themselves intelligent? We shouldn’t disregard what someone says just because they can’t produce government documents. Some do alot of research and some have found quite a bit of evidence to back their claims.

By the way, how do “conspiracy therorist” get the name of crack pot any way? Just because some gov offical says they are? Are we a culture of sheep that we believe the government? I am not and I don’t. Bush and Obama are puppets as have been alot of our past presidents. Check out The Obama Deception on You Tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAaQNACwaLw

Alex Jones did some research for this one. It isn’t all crack pot B.S. and it isn’t a slam against just Obama. It tells some interesting points about quite afew presidents, GOP and Dem’s alike. It also addresses the internment camps a bit.

@DREW_R: Precisely—people disregard what conspiracy theorists say right off the top because they don’t have documented proof. If there was a network of hundreds of internment camps in the country, the conspiracy theorists should be able to document one of them.

Conspiracy theorists get the name of crackpot because they believe things without proof, and because they go to great efforts to spread their nonsense.

@cwilbur
The ones I have seen have done a great amount of investigation.

Great! Then they should be able to present proof.

Doing a lot of investigation and producing no proof is no better than doing no investigation and producing no proof. It’s the proof that matters, not the level of effort you expend in failing to find it.

@cwilbur

I personally believe that they do show proof and debunk a bunch of the bullshit the government dishes out.

Great! So you have photographic evidence of a FEMA camp, or photocopies of a government memo authorizing them?

@LKidKyle1985 & anyone else capable of (but can’t be arsed) thinking criticaly.

The way I look at the way FEMA handled the katrina aftermath is that they had no intension on helping people, there only interest was to use the disaster to test out martial law gun control.

As for Alex Jones, I think his hearts in the right place, but its all getting a bit much for him. You have to look past the reporter and ask yourself is the information valid or applicable.

Lastly I’d like to see how you debunk the whole 911 movement which is getting pretty big (he says understatedly!). at the end of the day, there are many many unanswered questions about the events of 911 which hundreds of thousands of people want answers to, and I know I know, your saying to yourself but popular mechanics have done all that, and so has the 911 commission, well I suggest your google ‘unanswered questions about 911’ or visit AEfor911truth or pilotsfor911truth, or ask the ‘Jersey girls’ if they still have any unanswered questions they want answers to. I mean for God’s sake, theres even a political leaders for 911 truth!

I’ve said it before and I’ll keep bangin the drum untill the feds break down my door, if the people wnat answers, the PUBLIC SERVANTS! such fuckingwell answer them! And if the people feel they’ve not been answered thoroughly or adequately, or just want them answered again for the hell of it, they should do as they’re bloodywell told!.......

I am sure that if the present disparity between the rich and poor continues or gets worse and a right wing nut job like Palin gets elected, martial law may be instigated, especially in big cities.

You cannot have large groups of poor unemployed people and maintain a democracy. After watching the debates and listening to many republican candidates, it is easy to see that they value control more than democracy. I do, however, considering the present constitution of the military, that they will actually fire on their fellow countrymen. Of course as we progress from a voluntary to professional military, it is likely that the mercenaries will take over and then we could end up with mass killings and concentration camps. The nice thing with the rights’s push to privatize all aspect of government, it is easy to recruit a private army to do your bidding. We already have private prisons for profit, a private army, based in the U.S. is a likely outcome for current right wing policies.