Religious or not, can you name a few things you find to be sins?

Explain what you mean by “sin” first.

Those ten commandments outline some actions and attitudes that have certainly caused humanity a lot of grief.

Things that I personally consider sins?

Oversensitivity
Pushing ones religion/believe system on another
Blatant stupidity
Lack of common sense

Those are a few on my list.

Greed
Lack of compassion
Egoism

I find it hard to express in words why I find these behaviors so repulsive.

This is going to be an interesting thread since I doubt I’ll have a problem with most of the things people list.

lmao

@TaoSan Funny thing about your list… all of those things made our country what it is today lol

I think the utilization of any religion to oppress anyone is a sin

Oh and Paris Hilton’s fame.

I think any bad intention (ie doing something with the sole purpose of causing that person pain) is a sin. Doesn’t matter what the action is…it is the intention behind it.

The human mind, or maybe just mine, can justify anything. I can rattle off the basics like murder and avarice, but I can imagine situations where those things could be justifiable. I can rationalize most things.
Sin is doing something against one’s conscience; you just know you’re gonna pay.

Sins:

Murder
Theft
Extortion
Assault
Robbery
Adultery
Treason
Vandalism
Arson

Why are they sins? Because they’re all illegal. I have not committed any of the sins I listed above.

@Sakata

That’s why you’ll hardly ever find me agreeing with what our country is and how it has become so ;)

@Bluefreedom “Why are they sins? Because they’re all illegal.” But they’re only illegal because someone else decided they were. Same people that decided an alcoholic with a good job and a bad temper could have kids but I have to pay a ticket if I don’t wear a seat belt.

@TaoSan: Yea, I love this country… I just hate the people in it lol

I – Rape
II – Abuse (Physical, Psychological, Emotional, Spiritual…you name it.)
III – Disrespect (at any rate)
IV – ‘Intolerance’ -even though NO ONE is ANYBODY to have ‘tolerate’ another
V – IMPOSITION (of thought, Belief, norms, unnecessary rules, ideas,...)
VI – Voluntary Ignorance
VI – Obedience to rules (or anything) without asking one’s self: “Why?”
VII – Stubborn Skepticism
VIII – In flexibility in adaptivity to others (or diverse circumstances)
IX – Absolutism

…there are more in my list…

@Sakata. That’s true but whoever ulitmately decided, they chose well because everything I listed is pretty darn bad.

@Sakata
OMFG You stole my line!!!

Giving your love to someone other than your spouse. That’s a sin in my book. Only a brave soul can forgive that.

@daloon I’m not religious either.

GO ME!!!

@Bluefreedom “everything I listed is pretty darn bad”
That’s based on subjectivity & perspective
Like @tinyfaery said, “I can rattle off the basics like murder and avarice, but I can imagine situations where those things could be justifiable.”
Again… subjectivity & perspective

Would italics have ben better than bold? If so then switch ‘em.

It’s also a sin to put sugar and lemon in your iced tea.

I’m just sayin’.

@jonsblond “What kind of man drinks sweet tea?”

@Sakata I know! Not a secure one. ;)

Thou shalt not keep thy neighbor’s mail when the goofy mailman puts it in your box instead of the neighbor’s box.

Thou shalt pick up thy garbage that spill out on thy neighbor’s lawn because thy uses crappy trash bags.

Thou shalt not expect thy neighbor to be pleased because thou leads thy dog out to crap on thy neighbor’s lawn every morning.

Thou shalt not have more than a few loud late pools parties without asking thy neighbors over to join in.

Sins, or just my pet peeves?

@jonsblond pehaps you have a personal and intimate reason for which you posted this comment, with which I agree partially. But I will express my opinion just to respond with dialogue, without the intention of harming.

Love is not a binary-Tracked thing. It is vast and IT MUST BE SO. It has many faces, appearing differently towards different people. But it is at the same time EQUAL. It cannot be limited.
for instance the love for a spouse, for a brother, for a sister, for a Mother, for a Father, for a best Friend, For a Mentor… all different people, inspiring diverse feelings.. But the Love that generates is One.. Multiple but singulare.

In addition to this, Love given is never a sin.

But… Love also must be an honest Action and Feeling simultaneously as well.
So, if there is love, it is automatically corrupt by the deviation from its original destination, if hidden and lied upon…etc.
It is painful to have someone you love love someone else illegitimately, and so..it appears to be ethically wrong.. because it violates a very fundamental ethic law: respect.
Though I repeat: if love…Love is involved, there is no blame to be given,..as it can and should be manifested with knowledge,regards, wisdom and care ..and directed accordingly.
Otherwise, this may very easily become lust.

blablabla

@steelmarket Who cares? Ya got my lurve lol

@Anatelostaxus: Actually, “Love” in binary = 01001100011011110111011001100101

That was retarded. I’ll shut up now. lol

@Anatelostaxus May I ask you about your experience with love? I have been married since the age of 21, for 17 years now. Do you have greater knowledge than me when it comes to marriage?

@tinyfaery @Sakata Indeed. Even though it might seem contrasting with ethics.. murder (in my view) may be justifiable.
How would you treat the 30 year old neighbour who raped you sister? or you little brother.. or you mother..or fiance..could you imagine what a pissed off human mind is capable of doing. Law can step aside. make way for the monster within.
And whe That particular monster awakes, appears and begins to hunt… he’s only right.
and don’t dare stop it.

Let’s not forget about the religious view on “an eye for an eye.”
I mean seriously you can’t really put killing on the list of sins. More people on Earth have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason in history.

Theme from Jeopardy

@jonsblond Did you not understand what I wrote at the beginning of the post…
experience and knowledge are relative to the person’s life events.
They cannot be compared.
I have been married and separated. I know how it works. and before me, when I was a child I saw how it worked in advance with my parents.
My sister and brother-in-law divorced after 5 years. she is now 24. for a banal reason. he went after someone else. as usual
One of my three best friend’s wife and daughter died… together, after 30 years of marriage. the daughter was 15.

…. shall I go on, because I can.
I have loved and seen many loves of many others.
If after just this you think our ‘knowledge about marriage’ still cannot compete one with the other, I reply: I know much about love and it’s complicated features.

@Sakata ahaha! love in binary… you know what I meant, you bloke X )

@jonsblond besides, I even specified in my previous post… that I intended not to harm.
why would you get competitive and ‘I know all’ after someone writes that?
I said it was my opinion, and by barging in on it like that, you are, guess what…:sinning! by trying to impose you thesis upon mine.

(if that was your intentional aptitude, of course… )

Yes, I can read. “I will express my opinion, just to respond with dialogue”.

Sounds like you enjoy listening to yourself talk.

I only expressed my thought on sins. You barged in on my post. Not me on yours.

@Sakata yeah. supposedly even the God of the old testament justifies and/or deliberately orders death, death, death…bloodshed, and more death.
basically I find it to be worng ONLY for one reason: youdeprive the person of time to change.

I’m gonna stand firm with my opinion that ALL sin is subjective.

@jonsblond oh come on, jonsblond. is that all you can come up with.
What…even if it is so, that I like to hear myself talk. what wrong could come of it? ( at least I can, and want to discuss with people, and not just discard them..)
be Objective and reasonable.
I haven’t attacked you.
what’s you blatant reason to start attacking me.
I though one could find others with the taste of dialogue.. ah, but don’t tell me I have to deal with screaming monkeys here too?? no thanks, I meet enough of those in the non virtual side of life.

@Sakata, superb, mate.

Maybe you kids should check this out. Get back with me after the break. kthnxbye

Fluther has to be a sin because it feels so good.

You’re ripe for sinning, AC. Your current lurve total ends in 666.

When you say “religious language” are you talking about things that are, per say, intrinsically wrong? Aside from killin’ a guy, I think that line really depends on morals/community values/ ect.

@Vinifera7: “Explain what you mean by ‘sin’ first.”

I second that motion.

“There is nothing right nor wrong, but thinking makes it so.”

I had a roommate that was always down to sit in the living room and smoke everybodies weed that passed around. The thing is he never ever shared his stash. I would hear him in his bedroom all the time with the door locked doing bong rips. Then he had the nerve to ask others to puff with him when he was out. Mortal pot etiquete sin.

@Introverted_Leo
Thanks Leo. I can’t really give an answer until I know what we’re supposed to be discussing. Otherwise, everyone is just naming things that are sins by their own definition of what a sin is, which is not particularly useful. It’s more useful to discuss what constitutes a sin and why.

@Anatelostaxus

I’m siding with @jonsblond on this one. The woman said “in my books”, and that qualifier kind of negates any invitation to introduce “relativity”.

I can relate, I’ve been with my wife for 16 years now, so the perspective changes.

judging people…period

Thinking 0.(9) = 1

@cyrusbond: That is deep, but if there is nothing right nor wrong, what then makes your statement right?

Any harm to a child.

1. Gay and Lisbean.
2. Drugs.
3. Murder.
4. Rape.
5. Adultery.
6. Torturing, Totally Ruining the lives of, and then mercilessly Massacring innocent women and children just because they made an ‘unacceptable’ choice to live with dignity.
7. Gathering money in any possible way, even if this will ruin the lives of other people.
8. Building an empire upon the skulls of the land’s original owners.
.
.
.
And the list goes on.. and on..

@lynneblundell GA, lurve!

thanks @jonsblond xx

Backbiting, Gossip and Dishonesty

With these things present, there is little hope of finding common ground that we can all accept.

@Vinifera7 AND @Introverted_Leo: once again I guess I have been unclear. I am asking what you consider to be sins, and why.

I apologize, @Vinifera7, if this leaves you out of the discussion, since you think it won’t get you anywhere. Should you choose to participate anyway, you are welcome.

To all the others: I really appreciate your lists so far. I really like the different definitions of sin that are appearing here. Definitely food for thought. If anyone should care to try to point out commonalities, or to conduct some kind of analysis of what people are saying, I’d like to see that, too.

uhh..
destroying nature for personal interest and benefit.

I think of sins as “things that are just wrong”. I’m not religious at all. But we can think of things as wrong for many many different reasons.

It’s a sin to drink a nice microbrew if you’d rather drink Bud. Drink what you like. Save the microbrew for the people who will appreciate it. I’ll get you some Bud if that’s what you want, but don’t waste the good stuff. This is a sin of wastefulness.

It’s a sin to hate an animal just because of its owner. Don’t hate the animal. Hate the owner. I don’t hate the poor little purse-dog and want to kick it. I hate the chickie that put a diamond collar on it and put it in her purse where it’s sitting there shivering. I don’t hate the big dog jumping around in my yard and maybe crapping in it. I hate the owner who let it out and off a leash and didn’t come to clean up after it—assuming it was just neglect and there are no extenuating circumstance. This is a sin of misplaced anger.

@archaeopteryx: What do have against gay residents of Lisbon?

Kenny G is definitely a sin in my book!

@cyndyh

Where did I ever mention Lisbon..?

By “Gays and Lisbeans” I meant “Homosexuals” generally, men and women.

Why I think “homosexuality” is a sin? Well, because it goes against the rules of nature.
If you don’t believe in God (which is also a sin, but I’m gonna argue about it), at least you do believe in Nature, and you do believe that nature also has its rules.

For example, have you ever seen to lions flirting? (and by “two Lions”, I meant “two male Lions”)

What about two male horses having sex? Not that either?
Okay, okay, what about two female lions having sex?

And, guess what, you will never ever see that. Because, like I just said, that’s the rule of the nature. Not only in sex, even in physics. Take two magnets and place them adjacent to each other from the same pole, just see if they will ever attract each other..

1 – Humans are part of nature so if humans do it then it’s in nature.
2 – Guys have been bangin’ guys in the ass since way before God was invented.
3 – Just because the guys who wrote the Bible were homophobic doesn’t mean I have to feel the same way they did.

@cyndyh

Oh yeah, and thanks for reminding me, I gotta add something to my list.

—> My new list:
1. Agnosticism and Atheism.
2. Gay and Lisbean.
3. Drugs.
4. Murder.
5. Rape.
6. Adultery.
7. Torturing, Totally Ruining the lives of, and then mercilessly Massacring innocent women and children just because they made an ‘unacceptable’ choice to live with dignity.
8. Gathering money in any possible way, even if this will ruin the lives of other people.
9. Building an empire upon the skulls of the land’s original owners.

1. Agnosticism and Atheism.
Look mom I made the list!!! Yay!!!

Zealotry

To judge and/or persecute another based on their lifestyle choices that affect no one but themselves…definitely a sin.

Ooh. Since my very existence is a sin, I’m gonna do me some murderin’. It’s down much further on the list of sins.

Hmm…where should I start?

@tinyfaery Need someone to hold your ammo for ya?

@sakata Sure. One can never have too much ammo.

Oh yeah, and if I may also add:

1. Agnosticism and Atheism.
2. Satanism.
3. Gay and Lisbean.
4. Drugs.
5. Murder.
6. Rape.
7. Adultery.
8. Torturing, Totally Ruining the lives of, and then mercilessly Massacring innocent women and children just because they made an ‘unacceptable’ choice to live with dignity.
9. Gathering money in any possible way, even if this will ruin the lives of other people.
10. Building an empire upon the skulls of the land’s original owners.

People, please try not to take other people’s sin lists personally. Just think of it as interesting how other people think, and hold your own beliefs to yourself, unless, of course, you put it on a sin list.

I do find intolerance based on insufficient effort at understanding to be a sin.

I think that following authority without question is a sin.

I think that letting anyone else do your thinking for you is a sin.

I think deliberate harm to another person is a sin.

But, get this, I feel like accidental harm to someone else is also a sin. I feel like that’s negligence on my part (also a sin).

Wow daloon. So according to your list you think religion is a sin.
lmao awesome

If the shoe fits…

lurve

8. Torturing, Totally Ruining the lives of, and then mercilessly Massacring innocent women and children just because they made an ‘unacceptable’ choice to live with dignity.
9. Gathering money in any possible way, even if this will ruin the lives of other people.
10. Building an empire upon the skulls of the land’s original owners.

Wasn’t this all done in the name of god during the crusades?

Silly Christians

silly non-Christians.

Touché

Damn, why do I have to share the top spot on the list?

Maybe I can help clarify here:

Lisbeans, or maybe Lisbonians (Lisbonites?), are people from Lisbon.
If you were referring to Ladies loving Ladies, the term is Lesbians.

Hope that helped.

@critter1982, I personally believe everything is a nice shade of grey. That drug addict killing and stealing to get his fix? I’m sure he’s right in his mind. We percieve it as wrong, but our perceptions are just that.

If you can take a step back and realize that people have motives, belief systems, and virtues, just like yourself, then it’s possible to understand where there coming from.

I love your questioning of my quote! It’s a total catch-22, I know…but I choose to believe it.

Faith or logic people! You can’t have both!

Pedophilia or abuse of a child in any way. I think it goes without explanation.

Lisbonian lesbians ;)

@DrasticDreamer. That’s not only a sin, that’s evil and cruel too.

@fireside

Thanks for the clarification.

@cyrusbond

You can have both.

Why is a child lover called a pedophile and not a pediaphile? Seems to me that a foot lover should be a pedophile.

Throwing away recyclable items (especially aluminum cans, newspapers, plastic bottles)

Throwing away clothing that could be donated to the Goodwill.

Not buying Girl Scout cookies when asked by a kid (you can always give them away, or make a donation to the troop.)

Being mean when it would so easy to be nice, or patient.

Hurting a pet.

I will skip the obvious…

@cyrusbond: You can have faith and logic, faith though does not require logic. You obviously believe that right and wrong are relative in all circumstances (or at least I think this is your belief?). Simply stated, the belief in a feeling or intuition that somebody gets without fully warranted proof in my mind can be very logical. I would actually goes as far as saying that the denial of that intuition or feeling is illogical.

As you stated earlier people have motives, belief systems, and virtues which may or may not drastically be different than your own. If sin and right and wrong are all relative then isn’t logic relative to the observer as well. Can’t one person generate a valid inference simply from different life experiences, beliefs, and unique and unknown thought processes.

@archaeopteryx Against nature? That is incorrect.

. o O ( Does Lisbeanism have anything to do with Portugese legumes? ).

My list:
awlful speeling.
In taller ants.

@daloon: My opinions on sin seem, to me, to be irrelevant; we could all list things ‘til our eyes fall out of our heads and our fingers gave out, lol. But I can offer my “analysis” of things here, if that’s of any interest or use to you.

Earlier Bluefreedom said, “Why are they sins? Because they’re all illegal.” And for something to be illegal, there must have been a law to be broken first.

Every “sin” violates some law set in place by an authority figure, and the reason everyone will list different things as sin is because we all acknowledge different authorities on what is the law on what’s good and what’s bad, be it ourselves and/or someone else.

Now, being a Christian, it’s relatively easy to guess what I’d view as a sin—not much more than what has already been said.

You could attempt to analyze everyone’s responses (most seemed to be focused around actions or thoughts which neglect, spite, instigate, or harm people emotionally or physically or are blatant examples of selfishness); but beyond that, there isn’t really much else you could add except your own personal opinion as to what “sin” is based on your own definition of sin, which is basically what everyone else is doing. The “why” is bound to be different for people—because I said so, or because it makes me feel bad, or because it was given to us in the Ten Commandments (or whatever other reasons people may come up with). When the “why” or the definition of sin changes, so does the sin.

At least in our perception of sin, it does. Though the reality of the matter may be something entirely different.

But that’s basically what it comes down to, as far as I can see.

@augustlan

So, how about I call you a chimpanzee, would you accept that? Then how about I call you an America Bison? Well in opinion, you shouldn’t be offended at all, because this is what you believe, right? (With all do respect and no offense)

So, is it really a part of being human to do what animals(non-humans) do?
I’m just wondering how can anybody in the world read the topic you’ve provided and not feel completely disgusted from what homosexuals do and even puke their guts..!

It’s also undoubtedly against human nature to try do what other species do.

@archaeopteryx You are the one who claimed that animals do not exhibit homosexual behaviour in support of your assertation that it is not natural. I was simply pointing out that you were incorrect in that belief. As to your beliefs about homosexuality in general, clearly no one here is going to convince you to believe otherwise. I truly hope that you someday come to see the error of your ways, and open your mind to a wider world view. Peace to you.

@augustlan

Maybe my assertions were incorrect, and I admit it.

However, actually I’m the one feeling terribly sorry for your weird beliefs.
You guys see absolutely no problem in living like animals! Love is all about sex to you!
Your so-called “freedom of living thing” has turned man kind into biological machines that do nothing but eat, drink, poop, have sex, sleep, wake up, and then eat, drink, poop, have sex, sleep, wake up… etc. etc.. Until they die.

I hope that you all find the truth one day.

(NOTE: No offense and with all due respect.)

@archaeopteryx: you seem to make a lot of assumptions. Like why do you think people have no problem living like animals? That’s kind of silly, since we are animals and have no other choice. Also, why do you think love is all about sex to us? Sex is an expression of love, but by no means, the only one. And why do you attribute to us the belief that humans are machines?

I wonder how old you are. You sound like someone with the fervor and inexperience of youth. All your ideas are based on beliefs instead of hypotheses for which there is overwhelming evidence. It’s nice to be a theorist, but sooner or later, those theories have to be put to the test. I hope you are willing to change even your most fundamental beliefs if the evidence shows that another explanation is more likely than your theory suggests.

One theory that will never be proven wrong, is the theory of God. However, I will point out that you also can not prove the theory that a Giant Pink Amoeba is running the universe and our lives is wrong. Nor could you prove a million other theories like that wrong. God is just one theory amongst billions. Why choose that particular one over any others? By the way, you do know that the Giant Pink Amoeba is the magical inspiration for the Bible, don’t you?

I’m sure that sounds sacriligious, and perhaps like a joke, to you. Still, I hope you will consider the idea that suggesting a magical entity rules our lives puts you in a troublesome position, because you have no way of proving that one magical entity is any more responsible than any other.

Oh crap! I said I wasn’t going to bite, and now I have. Crap, crap, crap! What is wrong with me? Participating in the hijacking my own question!

I like how this has nothing to do with sin anymore. :P

8. Torturing, Totally Ruining the lives of, and then mercilessly Massacring innocent women and children just because they made an ‘unacceptable’ choice to live with dignity.
9. Gathering money in any possible way, even if this will ruin the lives of other people.
10. Building an empire upon the skulls of the land’s original owners.
Wasn’t this all done in the name of god during the crusades?

Sorry, I am a catholic christian and wanted to make this point again since it was left unaddressed and greatly conflicts. Also, I have no problem with gays or lesbians including the ones that live in Lisbon.

True, but let’s face it: the people who carried out the crusades obviously weren’t holding true to their religion. Nowhere in the Bible does it say, “Thou shalt shove thy religion down the throats of thy advesaries, under the pain of death.” Somewhere along the way they lost sight of what it means to be a Christian, and extorting and needlessly torturing people, among other things, aren’t exactly the most “Christian” things to do (huge understatement). They abused their own religion, turning into something it wasn’t meant to be: a tool of war.

This doesn’t excuse their actions, of course, but it just goes to show where the real problems lie—in people themselves.

@Bri_L: what kind of reaction were you expecting? It’s your list of sins. Presented in a responsible way. As far as I’m concerned, I have a hard time imagining anyone who would disagree with them. I certainly don’t.

and thanks for getting back on topic!

@daloon good point. I was just interested how one justifies the acceptance of the obvious conflict of some of the sins on the list while at the same time denouncing, with great fervor, others.

Being attracted to the same sex is not just about sex. Sex might be the least important aspect. Love and companionship is about who you can be intimate (not sexually) with, who you can trust, who sparks that fire within you. Sex is just an expression of all those things.

I’ll stop now. Daloon doesn’t want me to take it personally that someone considers the best thing that ever happened to me (meeting and loving my wife) a sin.

Polyester lime green stretchpants

@tinyfaery: maybe you already did this, but then you could fill it out. Surely you have a list of sins that includes something like, oh, say intolerance for love in every one of its forms?

@daloon See my first point. I do my very best not to judge.

@tinyfaery I thought you’d probably already said that. Still, there are times, perhaps, when it deserves reiteration? Or perhaps, further clarification?

Just my opinion not directed at any one person. Simply believing that something is a sin does not constitute intolerance.

Let me ask this: are you tolerant of murderers? I am assuming you believe murder is a sin.

Yes I am intolerant of murderers, and I also believe murdering is a sin. But I am not intolerant of murder because the action is immoral (immorality typically constitutes ones idea of sin). I am intolerant of murder because this particular sin happens to affect somebody else “right” to live. I happen to believe homosexuality is a sin. That is my belief but I am tolerant of those that do choose this particular lifestyle. I would not take actions to inhibit homosexuals from making that particular lifestyle decision. I would however never choose that lifestyle for myself.

I’m not saying that the 2 never go hand in hand but I just wanted to point out that one could consider homosexuality to be sinful and yet still be tolerant of it.

@critter1982 Hmmm. You have an interesting definition of sin. I think for many of us, a sin is something not to be tolerated. I guess I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around what you just said.

Well perhaps my definition of sin then should be defined. Sin IMO defines immorality. Immorality means lots of different things to many people, which why I assumed you had asked this question.

What kind of idiot would choose to be gay? Ooh, let me include myself in one of the most reviled population of persons on the planet. Yep. That was my choice.

Okay, I’ll really stop now.

I think I understand what critter1982 was saying about immorality and sin. Most religions would equate their list of sins or prohibitions with a moral code.

To go against the moral code is a sin. Following other parts of the moral code, such as being accepting of others, is where tolerance comes into the picture.

Simply put, the moral code is a way of personal behavior to some people and if others don’t follow it that is fine. Everybody is on their own journey.

@tinyfaery: Choice or not, I think that it is irrelevant to the conversation. I apologize if I offended you in some way, it was not on purpose.

@fireside: That is a good explanation of how I identify with sin.

Um, we passed irrelevance a long time ago.

@tinyfaery: Not irrelevant to the question but irrelevant to my argument. I don’t believe just because something is natural, ingrained through birth, or the fact that we are inclined to feel a certain way makes things moral. There are plenty of things that I struggle with everyday that simply come natural to me that I feel are immoral or not the right way to act. I don’t believe our feelings and natural processes define morality hence immorality and sin.

@tinyfaery – I can take a stab at that one too. I think a lot of religions would say that it wasn’t your choice to be gay that was the problem, so much as your choice to not not be gay. If that makes any sense.

a gay friend of mine told me about a movie he liked called Trembling before God. He thought it was a good analysis of the situation, at least from a Jewish perspective, and one that he had heard before in other religions. It’s not the thoughts, its the acts.

Or something like that. It’s not my argument, just thought I’d throw it out there.

Cause god says so is not an argument I can accept. I am done. I’ll just go on my sinful way, and act more Christian than most Christians. Or so I have been told by many, many, believers.

Bye now.

@tinyfaery – I’m a catholic christian and I’ve got nothing but love for you and every other gay and lesbian person out there. And 98% of my practicing buddies and buddetts feel the same.

@tinyfaery – I’m not asking you to follow my beliefs. I’m just expressing them, and I absolutely don’t doubt that you act more like a Christian than most. I’m sorry you have such a bad experience with Christians, from my standpoint it’s really disappointing to see that.

Goodbye.

@tinyfaery – I agree with Bri-L, the vast majority of believers I have ever known don’t care about a person’s sexuality. They just choose to live their way. Like you said, “Sin is doing something against one’s conscience.” It’s just that their conscience is different than yours about how they would live their lives.

Same with Athiests- I really don’t see nearly as much, if any, persecution or condemnation as I hear complained about on this forum.

But I’m sorry if you have been offended.

…Okay…

@daloon: out of curiosity, where do you think you get your views on what sin is?

Sorry that I’m not going to actually answer the question, because I think the word sin can’t really exist without a religious context. Because I think belief in a religion is an immoral choice that I would never choose for myself (apparently I can think this and still be tolerant of the religious, that still fascinates me)

@archaeopteryx
I Love that Gay and “Lisbean” came first in your list. I assume this is then according to you the worst “sin”. The shear logic of something that does not harm anyone (being gay) is somehow worse than Murder (killing someone), Rape (hurting someone else really bad), Adultery (hurting someone else emotionally), Torturing (again hurting someone else), and 7. and 8. of yours again directly harming others. Only religion could handle the logic behind this.

or lack of experience

@Noon – why does your tolerance fascinate you? Or are you being facetious and cannot tolerate “the religious”?

So you’re not tolerant of people who are religious?

@Introverted_Leo: same place I get most of my ideas—a synthesis of all the crap that is rolling around in my head. I think it up. I doubt I’m much different from anyone else in that regard.

Well sure, but do you think it all comes from you, no influence from other factors like other people’s opinions, what you read, watch or listen to, etc.?

Is there a reality to sin beyond our perceptions? Or is sin something we’ve all made up in our heads, not really knowing its origins and therefore not really knowing what it truly is, only what we think it to be?

Why do some people claim to percieve of sin while others will say it does not exist?

Just tossing out some things to think about.

@ Noon

My list does not have a specific order. It’s totally random, and I didn’t meant that any of those is any worse than the other. So, no, your assumptions were far from truth.

@daloon

So, why don’t you tell us what is a sin to you?? Are you even a believer?
Because honestly, I find it silly and ridiculous that non-believers talk about sins.
Sins are the crimes defined by religion. For example, when religion says “Do NOT kill”, then it’s a sin to kill. If it says “Do NOT do drugs”, then it’s a sin to do drugs.. and so forth..

And no, humans are not animals. Animals don’t think, animals don’t create, invent explore and develop theories. Animals can’t drive cars, or build trains, rockets and airplanes. Animals don’t know math, biology, physics, chemistry.. etc.

Animals only follow their instincts, they only live to eat, drink, have sex, sleep, wake up, eat, drink… until their dead. That’s why I said you guys just love to live like animals. You have no belief, no faith. The only faith you have is the faith in what completes and supports your belief that there is no faith, which is your instincts.

(However, I’m not saying that all of you are like that, there are exceptions, but they are a tiny minority though.)

@archaeopteryx Perhaps you missed it. You may find it silly and rediculous, but clearly many non-believers have a notion of sin.

As to animals, there is plenty of evidence that they do “think,” and in addition, there is plenty of evidence that humans are mearly following “instincts.” In fact, it is my experience that chemicals can change the content of thoughts. There is already much evidence that chemical can change emotions. Even evidence that there is a “God spot” in your brain. Perhaps what you believe to be beliefs are built into you by genes and chemicals; in other words, instincts.

@Introverted_Leo: Sure it’s influenced by others. In fact, it’s influenced by all my experiences.

2) I find no evidence to support a belief that there is a reality to sin (or anything else) beyond our perceptions. Perception is all inside us. It is a function of our senses and our sense processors (nervous system, brain, intellect).

3) I don’t know. It might have something to do with different ways of “seeing” things, and different influences in life.

I don’t think sin belongs just to religous folks. It is a term that has meaning without reference to religion. I was just trying to get a sense of what others thought sin meant. I’m not arguing for any point of view. I’m surveying.

@daloon: Where’s 1? :)

@archaeopteryx
Your definition of “animal” must be different from most. Under the biological definition, an animal is a living organism that consumes other organisms in order to obtain fuel. Certainly you can’t deny that humans are animals under that definition.

However, to say that humans exhibit certain brain functions that other organisms with brains do not is completely accurate. Humans have a certain level of awareness of their own perception. Humans also have the ability of foresight, in that they can predict the outcome of future events given a strict set of parameters. As far as we know, no other organisms have that capacity.

But to say that humans do nothing instinctual is completely false. The instincts to eat, reproduce, and survive are all there.

Do not elevate yourself above nature. You are a product of it.

Maybe this will help…

Straight from Merriam-Webster:

animal
Main Entry: an·i·mal
Pronunciation: \ˈa-nə-məl\
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin, from animale, neuter of animalis animate, from anima soul — more at animate
Date: 14th century

1: any of a kingdom (Animalia) of living things including many-celled organisms and often many of the single-celled ones (as protozoans) that typically differ from plants in having cells without cellulose walls, in lacking chlorophyll and the capacity for photosynthesis, in requiring more complex food materials (as proteins), in being organized to a greater degree of complexity, and in having the capacity for spontaneous movement and rapid motor responses to stimulation
2 a: one of the lower animals as distinguished from human beings b: mammal ; broadly : vertebrate
3: a human being considered chiefly as physical or nonrational ; also : this nature
4: a person with a particular interest or aptitude <a political animal>
5: matter , thing <the theater…is an entirely different animal — Arthur Miller> ; also : creature 1c
— an·i·mal·like \-mə(l)-ˌlīk\ adjective

sin
Main Entry: sin
Pronunciation: \ˈsin\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English sinne, from Old English synn; akin to Old High German sunta sin and probably to Latin sont-, sons guilty, est is — more at is
Date: before 12th century

1 a: an offense against religious or moral law b: an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it’s a sin to waste food> c: an often serious shortcoming : fault
2 a: transgression of the law of God b: a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

synonyms see offense

@daloon: I like how you share your opinion first then say, “I’m not arguing for any point of view. I’m surveying.” :P Of course, you didn’t have to answer the question. I only wanted to know what you thought.

And for the record, I don’t think anyone here thinks that sin only belongs to religious people, though I only say this because I haven’t seen anyone say otherwise. I could be wrong.

From what I can tell, I think sin has always primarily been a religious concept, though that’s never stopped non-religious people in perceiving of it. What I’m seeing, though, is that when sin is not in a religious context it is usually seen more as a “relative morality” or “going against established laws,” and when it’s in a religious context it is “man’s trangressions against the law of (the) god(s) or (the) god(s) him/themselves.” (meh, mouthful.)

So sure, people’s perception of sin will vary, but I think there really is a reality to sin beyond our perceptions, even when it’s defined in more than one way. And I don’t expect other people to share the same view. If they do, great; if not, great. That’s just how I understand sin.

@Introverted_Leo “It is a fool who searches for logic in the chambers of ” [a religious discussion].

Well, maybe in a religious discussion between the religious and non-religious. :P

@Introverted_Leo – I agree. When viewed in the context of a religious framework, sin is basically a definite because there is a code in place that was established for the community.

Without that framework, if everybody is different and should just live for themselves as they see fit, then there is nothing but relative perceptions that allude to sin. but since everyone is different, then there really is no sin and we can do whatever we want.

@archaeopteryx – Forget the fact that you think you have found a loophole in the semantics of others arguments. I still don’t understand how you justify using the same religion that broke, breaks and will continue to break #7,8,9 on your list to justify #1 on your list.

@Bri_L

Wow! So you say that all those wars, massacres, crimes and killings have been committed in the name of religion, right? Is that what you’re telling me?

Well, then go ahead and answer those to questions:

How come Joseph Stalin, Nikita Khrushchev, Mikhail Gorbachev and many more who
killed thousands of innocents and started so many wars and committed so many crimes while they were all communists..? So your proof is not correct!

Plus, Are you telling me now that the only reason for wars and crime is religion? Aren’t there so many criminals who are ready to kill hundreds of innocents over nothing but a couple billions of dollars? Do mafia men kill innocent people because of religion? I don’t think so.

Plus, doesn’t religion clearly state that a man is NOT allowed to kill no matter what the circumstances are? Then who the guilty here? Is it religion? even though it prohibits killing? or is it the criminal who refused to obey the rules and laws of religion?

Plus again, one more thing, are you telling me that the white and rich people of Europe
enslaved all those Africans, tortured them took them out of their houses treated them like animals, over religion? And NOT the lust for control, might, and dictatorship?

@daloon

You told me about the “God spot found in the human brain”, remember? Well guess what, I’ve searched a lot for it and all I found was a bunch of results, each and every one of those results holds it’s own assumptions and not one of these actually completely cuts the doubt that the “God spot” actually exists.

And even it does exist, it still doesn’t disprove the existence of God. In fact, it’s even a stronger proof that belief in God and faith is actually like a built-in function attached to human brain, and that he who tries to deny that is nothing but a mere ignorant.

@Sakata

Thanks for you efforts.
However, I believe that the worse place to look for theories and logical statements is the dictionary. Because a dictionary includes nothing more than translations, meanings and terminologies. That’s why for example, studying a medicine terminology book does not make you a doctor.

So, thanks again for your efforts, but I personally don’t take theories and science from a dictionary.

However, I still thank you very much for including the following:

”””
1 a: an offense against religious or moral law b: an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible <it’s a sin to waste food> c: an often serious shortcoming : fault
2 a: transgression of the law of God b: a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God

”””
@daloon
Those two points @sakata mentioned above are a great proof of how ridiculous agnostics and atheists are. They believe in something that was stated by someone they don’t believe in. They believe in the “Sin” that was identified even in a dictionary as an “offense against the rule of God”. And yet, they don’t even believe in God himself!
How could that be??! 0_o

@daloon

One last thing for you.

By “thinking”, I don’t mean everyday thinking.
By “thinking” I meant, logical thinking. I meant the type of thinking that lead the man to build civilizations, explore, develop theories, invent.. etc.

If animal do have exactly the same thinking capabilities as human kind, then can a monkey solve a complicated differential equation? Can a pig design and build a fully functional car? can a donkey invent an ultimate cure for cancer? I don’t think so.

@archaeopteryx you are a man of absolutes and denial aren’t you. No, not ALL.
Let us start with the crusades.

@Bri_L

A great proof the the crusade wars were not started because of religion is that the bible clearly stated: “Thou shalt not kill”.

Now, too bad people just ignored this and went on in disobeying the rules of their religion. And their only motive was like I said, the lust for control, might and dictatorship.

@Bri_L

Plus, this basically one of the main purposes of religion:

It’s a law, created by God, that provides guidance for people to their own benefits, and happiness, and guarantees each one of them, his right to live in peace and harmony with the rest of the people. It’s rule also include praise, support and rewards for good doers, and punishment for wrong doers.

So anyone who disobeys the rules of religion and by enslaving, torturing and killing innocent people is simply a wrong doer who needs to be punished.

@archaeopteryx – the fact is that there are many wars and horrible deeds done “in the name of religion” so you want to be sure to differentiate between the motive and the statement. Otherwise, you will get into a tight logical jam around the time of the Inquisition.

I do understand what you are trying to say, i just think you’re saying it in a way that doesn’t lend itself to being heard.

@archaeopteryx -

“A great proof the the crusade wars were not started because of religion is that the bible clearly stated: “Thou shalt not kill”.

Not true, they were SPECIFICALLY a military campaign, using force to spread the christian ideal and stamp out other religion.

I would like to note that the bible does say, “Thou shalt not kill”, which is actually better translated, “Thou shalt not murder”. There are a multitude of scenarios in the OT where God allowed killing, as it was a battle between good and evil. The phrase thou shalt not kill is a good personal rule to follow but to say that God never allows killing is not an absolute fact.

@archaeopteryx Are you retarded?
Yes, Stalin, Khrushchev, etc were the reason for thousands of deaths and had little to nothing to do with religion but what about all the people who have died for that very reason? I bet the numbers are higher.

2nd the Europeans bought people from Africa and took them home and made them slaves (or sold them as slaves), true, but any torturing was subjective. Don’t look down on slave owners from that time period. In hindsight it was indeed a dark time in civilized history but at the time it was considered normal in all of society. Besides, the Europeans (and Americans) didn’t go and kidnap anyone from Africa. In all honestly they rarely ever stepped foot on the African mainland.

Finally, as far as you’re concerned, who do you consider to be worthy of your religion? Worthy enough to worship your God? Do only those deemed benevolent enough qualify? If said person commits a sin does that take them out of the ranks? May as well be atheist… less stress.

This is EXACTLY the reason I hate organized religion. Most religious people are perfectly fine, normal, capable people. Then you always come across some fucking retard with a God-chip on his shoulder who goes out of his way to tell you how much you suck, your way of thinking is wrong, and you’re going to be tortured for all eternity simply because his priest touched him when he was young and now he’s going to take that out on you verbally.

Well guess what… shoving your perfect God down people’s throats isn’t going to send them to heaven or keep them from hell. It’s also not going to wash the holy cum stains out of your shirt or take that priestly taste out of your mouth.

Damn, fucker drew me in with ignorance. He wins.

“a God-chip”
lmao, isn’t that what the scientists want to implant in our temporal lobes : P

I seriously shouldn’t be laughing right now, but I am because this is so ridiculous…

@fireside – good one.

I am going to revert back to a couple of my earlier “sin” answers

Zealotry
and
Lime green stretch pants

@archaeopteryx: regarding the animal discussion. I believe I understand how you are categorizing beings. You draw a line between humans and other beings based on reasoning ability. You have divided the categories into either/or. One or the other. No possibility of there being more than two options.

I invite you to reconsider your way of looking at things. I think it is dangerous to think that way, because when you apply the intelligence test, there will be some humans who clearly belong in the animal realm. But that’s just a side issue.

The real issue is that capabilities, intelligence or otherwise, exist not in yes/no categories, but along a spectrum. Insects probably act pretty much according to programming. The more complex the brain of the creature gets, the more they appear to “think.” There are people who consider their pets, dogs and cats, to be people.

There are many other issues that this discussion links into. One is the issue of what we consider to be human. Are all reasoning entities, those who can invent or discover calculus, humans? They have the reasoning ability of humans.

It’s a much more complex issue than I think you give it credit for. On one level, sure, it’s clear that humans are so different from animals. But when you stop to identify the criteria for being human, things are not nearly so clear. Humans have traits of animals, and animals have traits of humans, and because this is true, humans do not have privileged status, unless you happen to have a belief system that places humans at the center of the universe.

Even then, it makes sense to believe that idea is evolved into us. Creatures that place themeslves at the center of the universe are more arrogant. They believe they have the right to do whatever they want to the rest of their environment. This righteousness makes them more confident and gives them an edge over other entities.

This would be fine, except when things get really complex, folks with that arrogant attitude keep on assuming everything is for them, and it will all be ok. They get greedy and overshoot themselves, or, more importantly, the ability of their environment to support them. We are at a point in human history where we can no longer afford such an antrhopocentric view of the world. That view will surely kill us all.

Religions must become more humble, and open to the understanding that we (all the creatures in all environments on the planet, except maybe cockroaches) are all in this together. If not, as I said, humans will kill each other off for lack of hubris.

I’ve been known to say if God exists then he/she is a dolphin.

Apathy
Greed
Torture
Molestation

@archaeopteryx sorry ’ prehistorical bird ’ ( did you just find that name at random, or is there a meaning for which you gave yourself the name of an extinct animal? ) but I have to refer to the discussion at the top.
Were you serious? if you were, my condolences… for you deceased brain.

Oh, yes.. indeed.. we humans can build up a giant waste closet to give comfort to that special someone from up above, if we want to.
We can also build a tower of Babel…think about the consequences of that ( since you appear to be a dogmatic believer..).
We are also able to put our fellow humans in perfectly well organised concentration camps, for the delight of the observers… guess what, we can make pop corn too
We are even able to build up a big hole in the sky, allowing this freely exploitable planet to slowly die out.. ..oh, and I must remind .. we’re still in it

Now, do we really think those stupid animals could accomplish all these marvels, and oh so many more, with those four paws of theirs?

NO! =D

They’re too busy chomping at each others’ hides, while WE… ah… we’re too buisy planning routes for other planets,
to leave those ridiculous critters behind to explode or implode with this big ball of shit we once called home.
Are they capable of that? ..no.
HEY, but at least they’re far more coherent than we are..
According to your beliefs, man was placed here to tend to and care for the earth and all its other ’ inferior ’ inhabitants.

YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT YOUR RELIGION SAYS, YOU BIBLE-HEAD-CREEP…

@Sakata I disagree with you in 1 point.. about the slave topic… I assume neither of us was there when that crap happened, so I don’t want a part of this discussion to go on that track_ but slave dealers according to my knowledge very steadily stepped onto African mainlands, mate.
Quite so.

everybody, just watch the hitchhiker’s guide to the universe, have a laugh, drink some water and have a good shag or something and relax.
myself included
‘Cause after reading that sort of gobshite that was posted further up, even saints or dolphins would be rather irritated.

giving 2 trillion dollars to a failing industry with money borrowed from another country with no intentions or capability to pay if back