"Radical Honesty": What do you think?

Did you just watch The Colbert Report?

Lying plays a huge part in our society, everybody lies every single day.
Sometimes people lie because they are insecure, and they need to feel better about themselves. Sometimes people lie to get power over others. Sometimes we lie to protect someone we love. And sometimes we just lie a little, exaggerate small details for the sake of telling a good story. I’m not saying it’s ok to lie, but imagine what the world would be like if we always told the truth? In the end, it might be better because you would always know who the “villian” of the story was and what people actually thought, but it would certainly take some getting used to, since we are all so accustomed to the lip-service culture we currently enjoy.

lying in many cases is ok
in some it is the better thing to do (jew in cellar, nazi at the door)

I hate lying. I always strive for honesty.

But there’s a line between honesty and tactlessness. And it’s a line I find myself struggling with quite a lot. Also, I’d say that the whole issue of lying becomes very controversial when there are certain extreme events (eg are you hiding Jews in your home?) but for the most part… I think that the world would be better without lying…

@johnpowell Yes, I did.

I tell white lies a lot, mostly for convenience ie: I have to go now I have something cooking in the oven. I NEVER have something cooking in the oven but it’s nicer than saying I want to leave now because I am bored of your company! If I really think about it, I tell little lies like this everyday and on, maybe, more than one occassion. There are certain situations that don’t require absolute honesty and white lies don’t hurt anyone.

I always thrive for complete honesty, but there is a difference between telling the truth and spilling your guts.

I think neurobiologists will tell you that Blanton’s radical honesty technique won’t work. My approach:

(1) let’s be honest and speak our mind whenever possible
(2) let’s avoid lying by saying nothing
(3) let’s create the awareness in us when we have to use lies (as an exception)

Fluther itself is a good example. I use (1) whenever I greatly respect other Flutherites knowing they welcome debates and disagreements. Some Fluther questions or comments pose, well, a challenge trying to handle them with complete honesty. Sometime the best approach is (2). Skip. No comment. Next question. I’m not sure if I’ve had to resort to (3) while on Fluther. In real life it can happen, for example when invited for a meal I didn’t like. When being asked whether it was good or not, I tend so say, yes (without the enthusiasm perhaps) or maybe… hmm it was “interesting”. My daughter sometimes asks me how I find her new dress, sweater, blouse whatever. Whenever I tell her it’s interesting, well, she got it all figured out. Once she radically changed her hairstyle and when she came back from the hairdresser and I told her it was interesting, I had definitely picked the wrong word. I should have gone with total honesty, I guess.

I am against lying in most cases, but radical honesty is probably too much.

I think that when you are up front about things, sometimes people don’t really like it, but often they respect you for it. I also think you respect yourself more.
  I feel that when you lie, you contradict yourself, even with white lies, and I wonder what that might do to you in the long run; That when you do something that is wrong, it makes an impact on your character, who you are. I wonder if it wouldn’t show more respect, not only to others, but to yourself if you said what you think and feel instead of evading the truth.

@oratio I agree. When I lie I feel guilty, especially if it’s a loved one I lie to. White lies, though small, often make me think about the slippery slope effect.

Honesty is the best policy. But don’t be an asshole.

Children learn to lie before they learn to speak. Lying is adaptive, innate, unavoidable, universal, and the person who claims never to lie is a liar.

@MacBean I want that on a T-shirt.

I’m embarrassed that being truthful should be considered radical in any sense.
Tact is as important as honesty.

I love Radical Honesty. This is one of my favorite things to think about. I love to imagine a world where you can tell your boss something is a horrible idea without getting in trouble, where you know exactly which little habits piss off your roommate, where no crush goes unspoken. I love it.

But lying confers too much social cohesion for us to ever successfully get rid of it, I’m afraid. Maybe if we all became mind-readers we could get rid of it. That would be awesome.

Every “lie” is a truth in some possible world. I see no reason to confer a preference on that particular world that we consider actual.

@pdworkin and the person who claims never to lie is a liar.

I know people who don’t lie – ever. They have no friends and their families can’t stand them. We have one in our extended family – the one I mentioned the other day who has no sense of humor and is very devout. I don’t think that she is psychologically capable of lying for any reason. She is forever bewildered by people who lie without (for her) reason. She understands lying for some sort of gain, but not just to protect or appease.

I think intent is more important than honesty.

The truth can be brutally cruel and unproductive. Lies can be destructive as well.

Unstated truth is bad enough. What happens if we state the truth all the time?

First of all, it seems like it is causing gratuitous injury. Is there any positive effect from saying every truth?

I think that humans, for the most part, speak all the truth that is useful to speak. People make calculations as to what other people can hear, and what will put up their defenses, so the truth is counter-productive.

I think radical honesty is about changing the balance for some people. The line between a useful truth and a counter-productive truth is not easy to draw. Some people err more often on the less truth side, and others on the more truth side. People who don’t tell enough of the truth probably would be helped if they could learn how to speak more of the truth. People who speak too much would probably be better off, socially speaking, if they curbed their tongues a bit more.

There are competing goods here—social adhesion vs important information. We all make judgments about how important the information is, and whether it is worth creating social discomfort.

I think we need to tell the truth, because it is hard to be known if you don’t. However, I think that truth can often lead to shame and pain and it can create deeper gulfs between people. I like fluther because I can tell more of the truth here. Part of that is because no one really knows who I am or where I live or who my friends and family are. Less is at stake with people you don’t interact with in your community.

As we get to know each other better, and we build a history, it may become more difficult to speak our minds as fully. I think that’s the case in any relationship. The more you value and depend upon someone’s company, the less likely it is that you will be willing to piss them off, and risk losing the relationship.

And what the hell is truth, anyway? Whose point of view contains the truth? We use differing nomenclature all the time. Yesterday there was a question about the use of “mankind” vs using “humankind.” Which is more true?

Other people would call me a “cheater” but I don’t think of myself that way, because I know that I never stopped loving my wife and I never wanted to leave her. I thought I was filling a need I had in a way that would least bother my wife, since she didn’t seem to be interested in having that kind of relationship with me. Usually I don’t bother with my point of view, since that is inviting attack, I think. I just call myself a cheater, as other people would, and what can they say? Using that word acknowledges the fault that others see. But is it the truth? Can we really know how to assign responsibility? Or blame?

Truth is tricky, and if we can’t be sure of the truth, how can we be honest? We might be honest to our points of view, but is that helpful? Sometimes overt honesty is covert dishonesty. Does inviting attack help you live a better life? Do we have to share absolutely everything?

Radical honesty sounds like a great thing. I have no idea how to carry it out. I don’t think it’s a theory I put much credence to.

@daloon Good post.

Moderation in all things. Even in honesty. Being brutally honest (or radically) as you put it, can have dire consequences.

Life is about choices, your results may vary is the most suitable answer here.

I just watched this ok the colbert report! I say radical honesty is a load of bulls**t

lying must be done within moderation. there are limits to everything. i believe that lying is ok in some cases but feel that with too much lying the sincerity of peopel decreases enormously.
Mark Twain said “Always tell the truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said.” I have had that in my head since I read it in the fourth grade.

Don’t know how the hell that happened, but I typed in “ok” instead of “on”

@XOIIO :: I’m going to be honest. You are a lousy typist. and a bit of an asshole too.

@johnpowell hahahahahaha hilarious

@johnpowell I am typing on an iPod, I was extremely tired and dizzy because of a flu when I wrote that.

thanks for the compliment of calling me an asshole 

@XOIIO I am typing on an iPod,

I am constantly amazed that anyone can type on them – they aren’t “typist friendly”. . I have a new iPod Touch but won’t use because of the difficulty typing. (Plus I have a BlackBerry Storm.)

@XOIIO :: I was making a joke. I don’t really know who you are.

I still thank you for the compliment 

I think that lying is a perfectly reasonable reaction to many, many things. I think the problem is those who lie compulsively, those who lie when they have nothing to gain and/or those who lie to be manipulative. Some people lie unconsciously.

I think I do practice a form of radical truth. I don’t believe that conflict should be avoided at all costs. I do not think it’s acceptable to be bigoted and superior, so I feel no need to have people like this be comfortable in my presence. I think that bucking the social convention of being “polite” and “tactful” allows people to wallow in their ignorance and hate. So don’t come around me with that bullshit. I will show you radical honesty.

Whoops: edit Ahh, you know what I meant. I’m too tired to edit.

Complete honesty isn’t realistic in our society. I think we’d be better off if we were incapable of lying, but since we can lie, this is what we’re stuck with. What we have isn’t perfect, but it will do for now.

If we all grew up in a world where lying didn’t exist, I think everyone would be a little more well adjusted than we are now. No false friends, we’d all know our own flaws and be better equipped to better ourselves or come to terms with it, etc. It wouldn’t be so much work to be an informed consumer. The court system would change dramatically. Its my favorite hypothetical situation.

Unfortunately, that’s all it’ll be: a hypothetical situation. We’re adjusted to the little lies, and expect them (you’re going to assume the teller will ask you how you are, and respond by saying she/he is doing well, regardless of whether she/he really cares how you’re doing or if she/he is really doing well). Inserting that kind of complete honesty in our society would not be a good thing, nor is it possible.

@dee1313—that is why when people ask me how I am as a greeting, I reply Terrible. That is the last thing they expect, and it gets the conversation off to an interesting start.

Truth is earned. Lies are free.