Social Question

TheJoker's avatar

Are there such things as gender specific roles anymore?

Asked by TheJoker (2795points) February 11th, 2010

We are all aware in the west how gender roles have changed over time. Long gone are the days where men were the breadwinner & women stayed at home. This got me thinking specifically about the role of men in society. & I’m rather inclined to accept the ‘Fight Club’ outlook, that we’ve tried & failed to be like our generally useless fathers, so now what? & how have these changes impacted on females? Do some feel threatened by male incursion into traditionally female roles such as child rearing. Do women feel overwhelmed by the expectation that they should be able to do it all, to be combined working women, mothers, wives, sex symbols, carers etc, etc. Don’t feel you have to answer all the points I’ve brought up, this is just an outline of my thinking.

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125 Answers

phoebusg's avatar

I always thought – all of us are just people. Sure, hormones make some small differences about how someone acts. And one of us has periods+cramps while the other doesn’t. We have to be compassionate about the individual challenges that come with the sec.

But overall, we’re just the same. The differences we entrench are mostly due to just our culture. So yes, I expect it to be even steven, in most/all respects.

To highlight, we’re perfectly capable to do each other’s traditional tasks. Save for birth (for the time being, think of Arnold pregnant hehe).

BoBo1946's avatar

Probably, the worst thing that ever happened to the home when the lady of the house went to work. (please feminist, don’t hit me until i finish) Our children were the loser! Today, we see it everywhere as our children cannot find their way…all the school killings etc.. Think all this goes back to the home. So much security for a child to come home and talk to mother. She not there anymore.

My son’s wife has never worked in their 13 years of marriage. And, oh my gosh, those two grandchildren of mine are the best. Think her always being there for them is the difference. Plus, my daughter-in-law is a University of Virginia graduate, as my son, and she gave up a career to be a mother. She is the best of the best!!!...this is the way it should be today, in my humble opinion.

stump's avatar

My mother, sister, and sisters-in-law are all modern women who have careers in various work places and they are all ready to shoot down any chauvanist remark in a heart beat. I and my brothers have all been brought up in the firm belief that traditional gender roles are a thing of the past, and we should persue whatever endeavor we choose regardless. But still at Thanksgiving and Christmas it is the women who cook and clean up (after the men make a half-hearted token show of carrying a few dishes out to the kitchen). Is that cultural lag?

BoBo1946's avatar

@TheJoker great question!!!!

TheJoker's avatar

@BoBo1946…. thanks, I do have them every now’n’then :)

phoebusg's avatar

I think it would also be fun to look to the right and go to this question:
http://www.fluther.com/disc/30904/if-you-could-switch-your-sex-for-a-day-what-would/
After you’re done. Fun one as well. Try imagining yourself being completely the opposite sex – while trying to answer this one ;)

BoBo1946's avatar

@stump good point…my son always helps with the children. My hat if off to him. When they were babies, he was great getting up in the middle of the night and taking care of them. It is a team effort….too many men do not realize how hard a woman’s job is today. That would be their failure in the home!

erichw1504's avatar

I definitely think the roles between males and females have blended a lot in the past 100 years and it may get to the point where there is no gender specific roles anymore.

BoBo1946's avatar

@erichw1504 good point and what a shame…again, the children are the losers!

HGl3ee's avatar

I see the only real gender specific roles as the blazingly obvious ones such as breast-feeding and child-birth. But even as we progress and things evolve those roles are changing. Otherwise, no.

Jude's avatar

@BoBo1946 what’s wrong with the Dad staying home to take care of the kids and having the Mom work?

My brother worked evenings, so he was often home during the day to take care of his boys. My sister-in-law worked during the day. They turned out to be wonderful boys (now 16 and 14). So, the Mom having to stay home… that’s a bunch of bullshit.

JLeslie's avatar

@BoBo1946 Although I would agree that roles within a marriage can help reduce conflict within the marriage (I do not think they have to be traditional roles, just well defined roles) I am not sure I completely buy into it being the end all be all for raising well behaved adjusted children. In the US in the 50’s the mom didn’t work, but before that women did work. During WWII they worked to help support the war effort. I don’t know the statistics, but I think the Beaver Cleaver household was only a moment in time.

Ann Coulter wrote a book last year, I did not read it, but I saw her on talk shows, anyway it was about single parents, and she said that in her finding children of single parents don;t fair as well. But, children of divorced and widowed parents do about as well as children of married couples. I would say most likely divorced moms work. I think “stable” parents are the biggest contributing factors to stable children, presenting a good source of modeling.

@all I do still think that for the most part the first year of a child’s life is the mothers. Not that it has to be, but it seems to be this way. And I think the idea of women having or doing it all has to still adjust itself. If a couple has both people working full time, and the housework and chores are overwhelming and a source of friction, get a maid and take the pressure off.

As far as certain careers for particular genders, I think that is pretty much over.

stump's avatar

@BoBo1946 If, as more women entered the work force, more men took up the slack at home, the children wouldn’t need to suffer. I would be happy as a house husband if my wife’s potentional earnings were greater than mine. I am speaking hypothetically, because I am single. Do you think men are inferior to women in being loving, nuturing parents?

phoebusg's avatar

@ElleBee this is weird but, men are actually able to lactate. At some point, we did share this role.

janbb's avatar

ah – I wondered when the de Beauvoir family would make an appearance.

BoBo1946's avatar

@jmah you need to re-read the post…not a damn thing wrong with the dad taking care of the kids….as long as one parent is there, not a problem. Before you jump on someone’s ass, get your damn duck in a row!

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

I’m a stay at home dad that cleans ans sews, my love is the “bread winner.” We generally thing one of us should be home with the kids while they’re young, and when they go off to school we’ll both be back at work. I think gender roles should be irrelevant in how people are perceived, but I know I’m viewed differently by other people that have more traditional roles.
@BoBo1946 My mum stayed with us when we were little, but when we got to school she went to work to help pay for college for both my brother and I. I don’t see how she did her children a disservice by going to work.

BoBo1946's avatar

Time out…was speaking from my experience with my son’s family, my family…..it damn okay for the man to stay home and take care of the children. BUT, was speaking from a society problem. The problem now days, generally speaking, I’m referring to all the kids that did not turn out okay. FINE, i’m proud that your brother’s children are fine, etc….AS I SAID, IT IS A TEAM EFFORT…How ever that works…great. Someone should always be their with the children. That is the way I raised my children and they turned damn fine.

Ivy's avatar

@JLeslie The Cleavers were a t.v. sitcom and not at all representative of American families in the 50’s. Do you think men in the 50’s were teachers, nurses, waitresses, secretaries, and department store clerks? And the women who went to work in the war movement in the 40’s were resentful of being forced back into being a housewife after the soldiers came home, that’s why doctors went overboard prescribing tranquilizers for unhappy housewives in the 50’s.

tinyfaery's avatar

Women still do the bulk of the housework and childcare, no matter how much they work outside of the home. It’s called the second shift. People just like @BoBo1946 think men merely need to help with the children (as if it’s not just as much their responsibility) which proves that childcare and housework are the primary responsibility of women. Men just need to help out once in awhile and it’s considered acceptable.

Jude's avatar

Take it easy there, @BoBo1946, I’m just now having my morning coffee. Be easy on me. ;-)

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BoBo1946's avatar

@jmah goes two ways!

tinyfaery's avatar

Get over yourself. I quoted you and used you as an example.

BoBo1946's avatar

@tinyfaery very uppity way to put me up for example! thanks, but no thanks!

JLeslie's avatar

@Dracool Is your point that women in the 50’s did work in “female” jobs?

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

@BoBo1946 sorry – not meaning to dump on you – I’d bet if you’d said “both parents leaving the home” instead no one would say a thing.

phoebusg's avatar

Attack the argument, not the person. (Ad hominem)

I gladly share any task with my partner. I’ve cohabited in a few different situations. But I do hate one task, folding clothes. Not because it’s feminine, but because I don’t have fun doing it. Though I love doing the dishes, and she usually loves to cook and make a mess. Win-win.

BoBo1946's avatar

@tinyfaery speaking of getting over myself…before you jump, READ all the threads!

BoBo1946's avatar

@JeanPaulSartre COOL…if everyone would READ ALL the threads, they would have a better understanding before they gave their 2 cents here!

Ivy's avatar

@JLeslie Exactly. Want-ads (as they were called before Classified Ads), until sometime in the early 70’s were divided into Male Help Wanted and Female Help Wanted. It was understood that the female help was not career oriented, whether a woman wanted a career or not.

BoBo1946's avatar

@JLeslie well put…and thank you for not over reacting and READING all the comments!

tinyfaery's avatar

I read it and I have no problem with you. If you don’t like what you wrote or don’t stand by it admit it and stop attacking me.

BoBo1946's avatar

@stump Do you think men are inferior to women in being loving, nuturing parents?

Please read all my comments..about my daughter in law etc…she is the best of the best etc…that is not a sexist comment, is it..?

tinyfaery's avatar

Done. Not worth it.

BoBo1946's avatar

@tinyfaery bring it on….not backing down one inch here….

HGl3ee's avatar

@phoebusg : Really? Oh wow! I didn’t know that, I’m going to have to do some research :D Thanks! <3

JLeslie's avatar

@Dracool Ok, I agree with that, but I think many quit their jobs when they had children back then.

@Dracool @BoBo1946 I was alone after school from the age of 10, my sister was 7 on (this when my mom went to work). I am not saying it is ideal, but people would freak out if that was occuring today. Way back in the day kids played on the streets of the neighborhood or down by the creek with little parental supervision during their daily activities. For sure if something goes very wrong, an accident, an emergency situation, it is good to have an adult around, but for the most part kids kind of played on their own in the good old days I think.

Jude's avatar

Yeah, I’m done with this, too. I can’t stomach “Grandpappy” up there.

janbb's avatar

As I posted on another thread, my son and daughter-in-law were both home with their son for the first three months (working on dissertations.) When my daughter-in-law went back to teaching in the Fall, my son was the primary care taker for the next four months. Now my grandson is in day care four days a week. He is one happy baby. I don’t think there are any tasks or jobs that are gender-specific except for those few that are biologically determined.

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Strauss's avatar

What about breast-feeding? I think that’s pretty gender-specific! And other bio functions, like ovua/sperm production, giving birth, pregnancy, etc.

Other than the obvious biological functions, I don’t think there are any other really gender-specific roles.

JLeslie's avatar

@ElleBee That’s awful.

HGl3ee's avatar

@JLeslie : awful. but true.

JLeslie's avatar

@ElleBee It seems that expression is very non-PC now.

BoBo1946's avatar

Just for the record, it is okay to disagree…but, don’t be an asshole about it! You can talk to people without talking down to them..huh?

Again, whatever works for the children. My concern today, so many children are being neglected due to both parents working. Now, if the dad want to say home or the mother…cool…

Think there is LOTS of proof..it ain’t working…generally speaking! When you see kids going into a school with a hand full of guns and start shooting people….somethings is bad wrong with the system. This certainly never happened in my day. We took turns watching for the coach at the local drugstore because he might see us drinking a coke…. Something has gone wrong! Please, i’m talking about a society as a whole…not isolated incidents. Talking about trends here!

casheroo's avatar

@Yetanotheruser That’s not gender-specific, that’s sex-specific. Someone living as a man can still have a child, and breastfeed.

BoBo1946's avatar

@ElleBee shame on you! Discussions become heated when people make personal attacks!

Trillian's avatar

@TheJoker. It is overwhelming, and it’s an example of corporate thinking spilling over into our society. The insidiousness of it is not just that it s accepted as the norm, and standard by which we measure ourselves, but that our acceptance of this is so deeply ingrained and utterly without question. We don’t even realize that we’re accepting it without question. this same thing can be said about many things on our society, and I believe that it ties in with the majority of people in our society that are incapable of critical thought. Or if not incapable, then at least unmotivated.
PS. I lurve you. Great question!

casheroo's avatar

@BoBo1946 I’d love to live in your fantasy world where a parent stays home the entire time a child is under 18. In the real world, people have to work. And this is coming from a stay at home mother. I stay at home because we can’t afford me to work, but I do go to school so I can get a decent paying job (plus, I want to get an education and work).

JLeslie's avatar

@BoBo1946 The guns in school is much more complicated than whether both parents are working or not.

HGl3ee's avatar

@BoBo1946 : Personal attack? Uh, there are a few people who are getting heated in here. Please don’t feel that I was paying little, if at all any, attention to you. Better?

Dr_Dredd's avatar

@BoBo1946 You said: “Again, whatever works for the children. My concern today, so many children are being neglected due to both parents working. Now, if the dad want to say home or the mother…cool…”

Sorry, but you did just contradict your earlier post. Initially, you said: “Probably, the worst thing that ever happened to the home when the lady of the house went to work. (please feminist, don’t hit me until i finish) Our children were the loser!.. So much security for a child to come home and talk to mother. She not there anymore.”

And, you also said, “Plus, my daughter-in-law is a University of Virginia graduate, as my son, and she gave up a career to be a mother. She is the best of the best!!!...this is the way it should be today, in my humble opinion.”

Those statements are a far cry from “so many children are being neglected due to both parents working.” I suspect that’s why you’re getting the flack.

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

@BoBo1946 I think that the problems kids face today are much larger than they faced in the past. It’s not just parenting, although that’s certainly part of it, but also the pressure we put on kids these days is astronomical. Unfortunately with health care and school costs being so much higher than inflation, both parents in most households must work in order to provide a good life for their kids. We’re lucky I can stay home with the little one while he’s tiny – but as soon as he’s at school, we need that extra income. So I agree and disagree. Overall I think there are big problems with society, but to fix it so one parent can stay home will take some serious programs that I doubt this country is interested in, unfortunately.

Jude's avatar

nevermind

janbb's avatar

@JeanPaulSartre Agreed. BTW, my grandson is in a free government run “creche” in France and gets free or minimal cost health care.

BoBo1946's avatar

@casheroo fantasy world!!!!!!!..read the threads…my son’s wife has stayed home and took care of their children for 13 years. Fantasy world…no, it is about parents making sacrifices for their children! As I said, if you took time to read all the comments, my wonderful daughter in law made the conscience decision that the children came first.

BoBo1946's avatar

@ElleBee oh, how sensitive of you! thank you so much for your kindness! I’m impressed!

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

@janbb I am jealous! It’s a serious crisis for too many families with just the costs of prescriptions, let alone if there’s a serious health problem.

JLeslie's avatar

@JeanPaulSartre I would argue that possibly (this is more devils advocate then really a strict opinion of mine) many two-income households are not necessary. America has become very consumer oriented, having to keep up with the Jones’, wanting Mercedes instead of Honda, taking lavish vacations, etc. Also, and very important, women want to be able to be financially independent, and also seek to fulfill career goals and dreams. Because traditionally we have put out the message that if you take 5 or 10 years off from a career, you can never get back in, or at minimum it is very frowned upon, we have reinforced the idea that you must stay in a career to be successful. This is something that annoyes me for wmen and men, and not just regarding children. If someone wants to take a year or two and travel in their 30’s, HR recruiters are going to assume you are a flight case and unstable. I guess maybe this is changing since so many have been laid off from work in recent history, and breaks in resume are forgiven more easily.

What do you think?

BoBo1946's avatar

@JLeslie could not disagree more….if a child is being loved at home, given guidance, etc…there is a much greater chance that child will never go into a school with guns. Certainly know there are other factors involved!

You must admit, there something wrong today…that NEVER happened when i was growing up. We had respect for people..we said yes sir..no sir…etc…and that is the way my son is raising his children.

My son was a UVA graduate and got him MBA at Northwestern University in Chicago. Very proud of him and the way he has turned out. It was not by accident. Lot of hard work on everyone’s part (mother and father). He is my only child….for reasons that are personal.

Aethelwine's avatar

Do women feel overwhelmed by the expectation that they should be able to do it all, to be combined working women, mothers, wives, sex symbols, carers etc, etc

I can’t speak for every woman, but I sure feel this way. I worked when my sons were toddlers, but the little extra money that I brought in for the family just wasn’t worth it to me to not be there for my children. Both my husband and I feel that my being home with them the past 10 years is part of why they are such great teenagers. We have given up a lot for me to stay home. We have one car that is over 10 years old, most of our clothes come from Goodwill, we never get to go out to eat or to the movies, but our children are more important to us than these luxuries we live without.

What really bothers me is that I must feel that I am less of a woman because I am not out working and helping our family financially. I can’t tell you how many times I hear “don’t you get bored staying at home?” or “when do you plan on working again?”. Sure I will go back to work some day, but I really hate feeling pressured by society that I must do it now. Since when did it become a bad thing for a wife to stay home and the husband support the family financially?

janbb's avatar

@JLeslie I agree with you to a point. I think we can get trapped in the consumer mentality. I’ve worked since my youngest was 18 months old, but I always chose part time work so that I would have the energy I felt I needed for each part of my life (and some left over for reading time!) I have not built a “career” but I have had satisfying work. We do not have as much stuff as we would have had if I had worked full-time all these years, but we have had and been able to do plenty.

JeanPaulSartre's avatar

@JLeslie I totally agree that for many it’s just silly to have both parents work. Particularly in locations where housing costs are low and jobs still pay pretty well. I know for us, our biggest expense is education for our kids. There aren’t any adequate public schools for very young brilliant kids, so we have to pay for private education or worry that we’re letting their gifts go to waste… certainly this is out choice, and we’ll gladly both work so they can get the best possible start. We also live in an area where housing is expensive, food is expensive, etc, so one income is almost impossible to subsist on. The irony about the wanting to stay home with kids thing, is one person could easily stay home if we didn’t have kids and their added costs, but then we wouldn’t need to…

JLeslie's avatar

@BoBo1946 So you don’t think it has more to do with poverty, teenage pregnancy, men not feeling responsible for their children, parents who have little integrity? Many of my friends had working parents, but no one was carrying a gun.

Dog's avatar

[Mod Says:] Lets keep it on topic folks. The question is “Are there such things as gender specific roles anymore?”

Personal remarks and off- topic quips will be removed.

Response moderated
wtfrickinfrack's avatar

@jonsblond I think you have the right priorities! Don’t pay any attention to those shallow idiots questioning the way you’re raising your kids. Children deserve every ounce of devotion and attention their parents can give them – it’s so much more important to their emotional development than ‘extra money’.

BoBo1946's avatar

@Dr_Dredd I stand by that statement….society speaking! There is a generation gap here…that is the problem. I’m not a sexist…just think that many children, society speaking, have been “short changed” by both parents working.

My son helps with house chords, he got in the middle of the night and changed diapers, etc. That was the way he was raised…again, it is a team effort to raise children.

Thank you for pointing this out…maybe, i worded it wrong. did not mean to step on toes!

BoBo1946's avatar

@JLeslie it is a contributor, both parents working…agreed, so many factors to equate into the problem. Just know this never happened when we were kids…a bloody nose maybe..loll

…guess old folks should find another site..loll People here don’t respect old fashion ideas…fine, maybe there way is better. Sure worked for us!

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janbb's avatar

@BoBo1946 It is not generational. I suspect I am as old as you. I am not attacking you in any way, just saying that age doesn’t have much to do with it.

JLeslie's avatar

I should say that if I had children the plan was always that I would not work full time at least for the first few years. I don’t know if that would mean not at all, or part-time, or if I would change my mind once I had children, because you never know how you will feel until you are in that situation I think, but what I do know is I want to be there with my children. I can’t imagine handing over my 3 month old infant to someone else all day, but that is me, personally, selfishly as a mother. Or, what I predict I would want and feel.

BoBo1946's avatar

@janbb maybe and maybe not…you cannot speak for everyone here that attacked my comments. Still believe that both parents working is a real problem today. Gender roles…cool..if the father wants to stay home and take care of the kids..not a problem…just someone needs to be there.

I raised myself…the truth. I’m a tough old bird…my dad landed on Normandy D Day and came back a mental mess…my mom, uneducated, worked 7 days a week in a cafe…went to work at 5 am and worked to 9pm….me and my brother had to get up and take care of ourselves. Me being the oldest, had to be a mom and a dad…

Also, taught school and coached for years…have a little insight into the problem.

Anyway, nothing will be accomplished here today accept you certainly find out a lot about a few of the people on this site. Most people were very kind in their comments.

Later gator!

tragiclikebowie's avatar

As far as roles in the workplace, I don’t think there is anywhere anyone is barred from entering anymore, but you certainly do see gender patterns in certain jobs or roles. At home, it’s an even playing field now, I believe. However, women still earn less then men in the workplace, especially at higher levels of income. So, I don’t believe the gender roles are as concrete as they once were, but I think there’s still a shadow of them within our society. There certainly still is blatant sexism but that’s another story.

Personally, I don’t want children until what most people consider “late”, because I want to be able to have a career, make some money, do what I want, and fulfill my dreams before I bring a child into the equation. @JLeslie I agree with you. I don’t want someone else raising my kid. I would want to be able to set aside my life, needs, and wants, and focus on the little person I brought into the world until I was comfortable sending him/her to a pre-school or whatever. And if the daddy wanted to help, more power to him.

JLeslie's avatar

@BoBo1946 Honestly, I am going by own observations, and the gun ridden areas seem to have a lot of absurd ideas about child rearing. I think it is like a snowball, once guns get into the neighborhoods then children are growing up in war zones, and it becomes normal to have a gun. People start needing guns to protect themselves from the other people who have guns, it all feeds on itself, it is awful. I work in a Psych hospital, and on our discharge form we ask if they have access to weapons where they live, and you cannot believe how many say they have a gun for protection.

I think cultural mores has a big play in our gun filled neighborhoods, and some mental illness also, all sorts of things.

BoBo1946's avatar

@JLeslie Most all problems, not all, goes back to the home! We all know of cases where good kids came from bad homes and vise versa…I came from a bad home. Not anyone fault.

But, something is wrong today..see, you just don’t understand how it use to be…you did not live during my day (the perverbial generation gap). A bad kid was one that was smoker…loll for be that from today.

Anyway, have a good one!

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mattbrowne's avatar

A midwife who has experienced birth herself can offer a certain kind of support a man could never offer.

Sophief's avatar

Well, I am quite old fashioned, I believe in gender roles. I am more than happy to look after my man, do all the cooking and cleaning. My Grandma always told me to look after your man, and that is what I intend to do.

JLeslie's avatar

@BoBo1946 I think you have not seen my posts over the last year about how disgusted I am about children who are not really being reared at all today. I am as upset as you. When I moved to Memphis I could not believe how ridiculous it is here. Ghetto neighborhoods, we are already up to 4 confiscated guns in the public schools in 2010. A couple of years ago a mother in MS near Memphis went onto a school bus waving a gun, there were two school shootings that I heard of in 2008 (maybe it was 2007, I am losing track of time). I am horrified. If you had the mothers home every day in these neighborhoods I don’t think it would fix the problem. Do you?

Ivy's avatar

The Columbine High School shooters came from affluent homes with two parents, so the gun issue isn’t a simple one. And if a bad kid back in the day was one who smoked, what about Charles Starkweather and his girlfriend? Just commenting on some statements made by other users, and not necessarily on the topic of the question.

gailcalled's avatar

@BoBo1946: So you are not really a virgin? Skip the silly questions next time, please.

I see men at our yarn shop who are taking knitting lessons…a minor issue, I know. And didn’t Rosie Greer do needlepoint?

JLeslie's avatar

@Dracool Of course you are right, shootings have occurred in affluent neighborhoods, but the plethora of gun problems almost daily in the city right next to mine cannot be compared with Littleton, Colorado.

BoBo1946's avatar

@gailcalled loll..good point….Rosie was one my favorite folks!

Being old fashion here is not fashionable!

BoBo1946's avatar

@Dracool good point…as i said early to JLeslie, there are always exceptions. The worst kids in my school were preacher’s sons.

Generally speaking, someone needs to be there when those kids some home. Guess that is a passion of mine..no one was ever there when i got home. But, I turned out ok…i guess..

gemiwing's avatar

Well, judging by the answers here I would venture to say that yes, there are still gender roles.

They are what we make of them. We can accept them or change them. Rather than trying to find a pigeon hole, I prefer to take what I like/can use and leave the rest.

Hubbs and I have what some would consider an odd marriage because our roles are reversed in some ways. In others we appear to be stuck in the 50’s. It’s all how you look at it, I suppose.

He works, I stay home. I bake, clean, keep the house organized. He bakes, cleans and keeps us with enough income to survive. We’re a gender-neutral household for the most part and I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’m not fragile and don’t need protecting. He’s not an idiot and knows how to clean up after himself. We split duties of taking care of our ‘kids’ (four-footed kind for now.). We split cleaning duties.

I cook more but that’s only because I have more time and it’s my job. I love my job.

I am a stay at home wife, that’s my job. I have hours during the day that I work and I take a day or two off a week. I don’t see it as ‘serving my husband’ or keeping me from something else. This is a job I love and have wanted my whole life. I enjoy laundry, I love grocery shopping, menu planning and entertaining. If I didn’t enjoy this then I would find another job. It’s just that simple in my head.

Now, others when they look in on our little household- tend to see what they want to see. If they want to see two happy people then they do. If they want to see me being oppressed then they do.

Ivy's avatar

@BoBo I’m a kid from the 50’s, too, and contemporary 50’s nostalgia doesn’t include all the families from that time that didn’t look like the Cleavers, which in my experience, was most of us. There’s so much expected of parents today and their road is harder as young adults than ours was. Where are the grandparents? Again, in my experience, they’re at the casino.

Dr_Dredd's avatar

@gemiwing More power to you! I don’t like entertaining or laundry. I do like grocery shopping (and eating!), but suck at cooking. Unfortunately, I’m single, so division of labor by gender is a non-issue. :)

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tragiclikebowie's avatar

@Dracool @BoBo1946 I am a child of the 90s and during the time my parents were working, (my dad in IT and my mom in the nuclear industry) I was cared for and raised by my maternal grandparents and uncle. In fact I would say that during the course of my life my grandparents have been a more stable support system than either of my parents, especially during and after my parents’ divorce. I know another friend of mine who was emancipated from her parents at the age of 12 (long story), and went to live with her maternal grandmother who she has lived with since. It’s not a common occurrence, but in some cases the grandparents and other family is there.

BoBo1946's avatar

@tragiclikebowie certainly relate to your comment as my grandparents on my dad’s side spent a lot of time with me….so, gender roles take different turns!

evandad's avatar

There are gender specific roles. Some will be challenged but for the most part they will endure. Your useless father could have told you that.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

Of course there are still gender norms – are men able to wear skirts and make up without enduring slurs? no…are women able to only have a career without enduring ‘stop acting like a man’? no..are my boy kids able to go to pre-school with their long hair w/o their teachers telling them ‘long hair is for girls only’? no…am I able to find clothing and toys for them that aren’t blue v. pink and frills v. trucks? no…are transgender and gender variant people able to live their lives in safety, w/o job and health discrimination? no…are same-sex couples able to marry? no, and that’s fucked up and that has everything to do with gender norms and people thinking there is one ‘proper’ way to couple people.

Sure white women now (because other races have always worked) are now able to have a career, great..as someone above mentioned they’re still mostly expected to parent…and my husband, the stay at home father, is a singularity..there is NO community out there for him…it’s not at all equal…I agree with others who have said that kids do need more attention but this should not be achieved through going backwards in time and having the wives stay home..this should be achieved by going forward, progressing, and having society value parenting no matter who is staying at home…this needs to be reflected, politically and socially, through paternity leaves (which are usually what a few days to a couple of weeks, mostly? crazy and wrong), through people saying parenting (usually a woman’s thing) is valued just as much as a career…we are quite far away from any kind of refocus on gender or away from gender..it’s not about equality, for me – it’s about stopping to hold gender norms in such esteem, altogether

BoBo1946's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

this should be achieved by going forward, progressing, and having society value parenting no matter who is staying at home!

could not agree more…said that early, but many missed it!

Bottomline, someone should be there to love those children in this crazy wild world! Mot

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@BoBo1946 The world has always been crazy – I do want to mention that in the past, a time cherished by so many as having ‘been better’, children were had to increase the labor force or to help their parents with work or just because – no one ever treated kids in a developmentally appropriate fashion – so this time, our time, the present time, IS better because people (at least those that are privileged, like myself) are having kids just to raise them, to have them be happy (not because they’re needed for financial reasons) and to have them improve this world. I’d rather less people have children, yes, but there is no way of getting around it because so many still think that’s what needs to happen.

BoBo1946's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir very true…so many people have no idea why they are having a child. They just breed and deal with the results, or in many cases, don’t! Regardless of the gender, man or woman, all children needs someone to guide them and someone to lean on everyday. I never had that…not any fault of my parents. (A father, a World War II victim, and my mom, born during the depression and had to work..never got her education).

Got a lot of heat here from saying, the worst thing that ever happened is when the woman went to work…maybe, I should have said, the worst thing that ever happened was when children came home and neither parent was home. It is a huge responsibilty to raise a child correctly.

Anyway, really liked your comments!

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir GA, I so wish we could have done that. Too late now.

BoBo1946's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land it is never too late when your heart is in the right place!

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@BoBo1946 I’m too old to be a daddy now and my lady is now with the angels.

BoBo1946's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land time will change the second part of your comment. The first part, loll..if you’re like me, don’t want to go there again!

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@BoBo1946 I’ll never love anyone else.

BoBo1946's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land understood, but the pain will become less and less by the day!

See you tomorrow!

HungryGuy's avatar

Very few. There may be valid reasons why women can’t play American Footbowl, for example, due to the need for sheer body mass, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they could play, given the approriate safety gear for a woman’s body…

tragiclikebowie's avatar

@HungryGuy There are professional women’s football teams that get a small niche audience, and some advertising on TV (at least where I’m at) as well. Though obviously, it is no where even in the same stratosphere as the NFL, I thought it was worth a mention.

HungryGuy's avatar

@tragiclikebowie – That’s good to know :-) Thanks!

teller's avatar

Did you actually think about what you wrote before you wrote it? There is absolutely no indication that you devoted a moments thought to this post. Sorry. I“ll tell you what. As someone already pointed out, even just opening your eyes would tell you that we still divide along traditional gender lines. Women wear high heels and makeup, Do men? Open your eyes. Nurses are 94% female. Auto mechanics are 96% male. Construction workers, firefighters, roofers, lumber jacks, garbage collectors, truck drivers, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, welders, movers, riggers, pilots, etc, are all overwhelmingly male just as they have always been. Nurses, elementary school teachers, social workers, health care workers, day care center workers, baby sitters, nannies, secretaries, receptionists, etc, are all overwhelmingly female just as they have always been. Do you live on another planet?

Then almost bizarrely you ask whether WOMEN are stressed out from all the work they have to do. Uhh, did you just forget that you claim that there is no longer any difference in the roles of men and women? So why would women be any more stressed or overworked than men if you are correct that there is no longer any difference between men and women?

I suggest that you do some research before you post, or at least take a look around at what real people are doing. Pick up a copy of Cosmopolitan magazine. If you really thing there is no longer any difference between men and women, you are in for quite a shock.

TheJoker's avatar

@teller…. Either that or perhaps I, as with the other people who managed to answer this question without being a pompous arse, know what I think & believe, but am also interested as to what other people think on the subject.

Sophief's avatar

@TheJoker Yes, pick up cosmo, that’s real life and you will learn…............erm….......how to pick out the right dress…......erm….........top 10 sex tips for women, anyway do your research!

TheJoker's avatar

@Dibley Hahaha, It’s always nice to know someone’s got my back :) Yes, my feminist education has been sorely held back by my refusal to read Cosmo. Although if this nob-jokey had read the QUESTION they would have realised that it was a QUESTION and that the only statement I made was in regards to the role of men.

HungryGuy's avatar

I love those cinnamon rolls that you buy at the mall, but my last girlfriend hated them. So I’d say that cinnamon rolls are gender-specific :-p

BoBo1946's avatar

@TheJoker well said my friend…was going to say about the same thing to Teller! But, I’ve gotten in enough trouble on this post…loll..

TheJoker's avatar

@BoBo1946 Hahaha, thank you… & you keep calling it as you see it, nothing worse than not challenging the consensus.

BoBo1946's avatar

@TheJoker dang right….believe me, after some the comments made at my comments here, know exactly what you are referring too my friend. Don’t want to ever appear “pushy and a know it all kind of guy,” but do believe in taking up for myself. If you think you are right, fight to the finish, but on the same token, when wrong, apologize and take it like a man. The second part is the hard part for most of us!..loll

Again, thought you asked a very good question and by the answers, that validated your question as being very good!

TheJoker's avatar

@BoBo1946 Thanks for that BoBo, & you’re right, it takes a much better person to put their hands-up to their mistakes & apologise. & everyone’s entitled to their opinion without being pilloried for it… something a few people round these parts struggle to comprehend.

BoBo1946's avatar

ditto ditto, and more dittos!

oh, one thing, i’m not a writer…sometimes have a real problem putting on paper my thought process. My intentions are good, but sometimes it comes out wrong..loll..just thought that happened on your question.

Also, many times, would love to ask a question…but, due my poor writing, don’t want to go through the “rat killing” required to ask it…cool, it is important that the question makes good sense, but there should be some consideration that ALL people don’t have good writing skills. For example, just recently Chistian (a member of Fluther) asked a question, he speaks a different language and was attacked for his poor grammar on the question…the mods said, give this guy a break…he speaks a different language. Damn, i can relate with that. I speak a different language also! lmao..for this reason, don’t enjoy this site like i did the “old AB!” Anyway, no big deal..in the sheme of things, will sleep good tonight!

Have a good one J!

TheJoker's avatar

Yeh, they’re are abit…. uncompromising on this site aren’t they. Heh, to let you in on a little secret, I write my answers on Word then copy & paste them into the answer/comment box, only way I could cut out my spelling errors.
Still, I guess us old AB refugees should just be grateful somone took us in, hehe.

BoBo1946's avatar

Got’cha…thought about that…sounds like a winner!

Dr_Dredd's avatar

@HungryGuy Good answer! You wouldn’t happen to be hungry, would you? :-)

HungryGuy's avatar

@Dr_Dredd – Always! But not necessarily for cinnamon rolls :-p

Dr_Dredd's avatar

Gotcha. :-)

teller's avatar

Regarding your misunderstanding of the Cosmo mag reference: this magazine has long been condemned/criticized by feminists for it’s perpetuation of traditional, stereotypically feminine behavior. It is the highest circulation magazine for young women. If this magazine with all it’s traditionally “gender specific,” feminine, “how to please your man” articles, remains so popular among young women today, that completely contradicts your statement (not question) that there are no longer “gender specific” roles today.

You and your uhh…associates? seem to have quite bizarrely interpreted the Cosmo reference as intended to be a source of “feminist” information! WTF! It’s exactly the opposite. That’s the point!

If “gender specific” roles are truly “long gone” as you state (not ask, you state it as a fact) how would you explain that a magazine that is renowned for it’s highly “gender specific” content is the most popular magazine among young women?

@Dibley: “how to pick out the right dress” “10 sex tips.” My point exactly. There is no change in what has always been the “gender specific” content. It’s exactly the same. No change. Thank you.

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