Social Question

Cruiser's avatar

Gay Catholic this wrong?

Asked by Cruiser (40401points) July 23rd, 2010

An undercover sting filmed 3 Catholic priest having at it in a gay club in Rome. Is this wrong or simply a violation of Catholic moral values? Is Catholic religion simply out of touch with the times? Is this a scandal or invasion of privacy??

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37 Answers

Blackberry's avatar

Being gay is not wrong, but being a part of an organization that condones homosexuality is wrong. I really hope I can see society repudiate religion before I die.

CMaz's avatar

Being part of an organization that has “rules” that you do not follow and staying there.
Covertly following your own agenda, is wrong.

Sort of like if you are a member of the cattlemen’s association but hate beef.
It would be wrong for you to be a member.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

If homosexuality is something taboo in the Catholic religion, then a man who is gay and becomes a priest would appear to have some type of issue, as it is a violation of Catholic moral values, whether they act upon their desire or not.

Is the Catholic religion out of touch with the times? No…they are well aware that homosexuality has existed longer than their religion has and isn’t going to go away.

Is it an invasion of privacy? Yes, if the people involved didn’t grant permission to have it filmed or written about.

Blackberry's avatar

@Pied Pfeffer
“Is the Catholic religion out of touch with the times? No…they are well aware that homosexuality has existed longer than their religion has and isn’t going to go away.”

That means…they’re out of touch with the times…...

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s hypocritical.

NaturallyMe's avatar

Of course there’s nothing wrong with it. It’s merely a violation of Catholic values. (which i don’t believe in myself, i’m just sayin’).

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

It’s wrong the the Catholic Church doesn’t ‘approve’ (as if) of homosexuality.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@Blackberry I’m not so sure. There are enough cases where priests have been accused of homosexual behavior and are still holding their position, be it in the same church or another one. I suspect that they are just really devoted to being good wingmen. If this scenario was really documented, let’s see what happens.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

It depends. Were they there to pick up boys? Or were they portending to be Daniel’s in the Lions Den, offering the salvation of Christ to the perceived sinners in the club?

Mother Theresa hung out in the worst parts of town. But it wasn’t so that she could buy drugs.

wundayatta's avatar

Was it consensual? Were they hurting anyone else (physically or emotionally, not philosophically)? If not, then who are we to judge them right or wrong? If the Catholic Church wants to pass its judgement, that’s on them.

Cruiser's avatar

@wundayatta Read the story as it appears it was consensual but what is kind of rotten it was with the journalists gay friend who he set them up with and filmed it all too!

Blackberry's avatar

@Pied Pfeffer The views of the catholic church as a whole are behind the times, but you are suggesting with this wingman theory that individuals within the church do not believe in the doctrine, but still stay within the organization?

CMaz's avatar

As much as homosexuality is part of the question. It is not a gay question.
As much as the Catholic Church is part of the question. It is not a Catholic question.

It is about being part of something that has guidelines that need to be and are expected to be followed, in order to be a member.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@Blackberry Yes. Thank you. That was stated perfectly.

Blackberry's avatar

@Pied_Pfeffer Yes I agree with you; there must be a reason why these people are staying in the organization. Perhaps monetary benefits, or sexual favors? Lol…....

Aster's avatar

Here’s the key:
“The Catholic Church forbids priests to have sex and homosexuality is also seen as a ‘sin’ .
So why would anyone want to listen to what they have to say regarding morality? Why would parents want their children attending Mass led by these guys? I think people should be a Little less hypocritical when in positions of authority . Who would tell their kids to model after Sargeant Smith who drives drunk? If you had a boy and needed a babysitter, would you ask one of these Men of the Cloth to handle the job? I doubt it. Was it an invasion of privacy to film them? Yes; but I highly question if that issue will be brought by the priests’ lawyers! LOL !

aprilsimnel's avatar

::sigh:: On the one hand, they’re gay and can’t block that, nor should they have to. On the other, they took a vow, presumably with eyes open, to be celibate.

These men are going to have to decide what’s more important to them and act accordingly.

Ron_C's avatar

The only thing wrong is that the Catholic church insists that all its clergy be celibate. If they were celibate, why should their sexual preference matter. After All, they aren’t supposed to be having sex. The real harm is the expect young healthy individuals to give up sex for the convenience of the church. The reason for the celibacy injunction was to insure that there were no heirs and that all of the clergy’s property reverted to the church. The rule has nothing to do with religion it is only about power and control. All churches are about power and control and only, incidentally, religion.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@Ron_C Does the Catholic church insist that all its clergy be celibate? There seems to be a lot of cases where there is hanky-panky going on, be it with a female or another male, and the priest doesn’t get the boot. Our married Presbyterian minister was found to be having an affair with an 18 year old girl and was issued a pink slip.

There are testaments from nuns and priests that decided to leave their position for the desire of seeking out a life of love to someone other than God. I just don’t understand why someone homosexual would willingly become a priest when it is against the Catholic beliefs, whether they stay true to their vow or not.

Not all churches are about power and control. I can only speak for the one I belonged to for 20+ years. It was, and still is, a loving community who not only look out for each other, but people in need of help in town and in the U.S. Mom was one of the volunteers who helped manage the finances for the church…the minister is only allowed a report and a paycheck, and it isn’t much.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

As far as I understand it then Catholic priests are supposed to remain celibate and abstinant. A homosexual priest takes an oath to adhere to those things like any other priest but he in particular lives out a lie because the church condemns homosexuality. I’m always boggled as to what attraction that religion holds for homosexuals.

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@Neizvestnaya Yes, and thank you.

Aster's avatar

@Neizvestnaya “I’m always boggled as to what attraction that religion holds for homosexuals.”
If you were a gay male and you wanted respectability in a profession and in some cases admiration but you found a lot of jobs unavailable to you, what better a job could you get whose colleagues would not Ever expect you to marry And would provide you, if you so desired, an endless supply of lovers of all ages??

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

@Aster I’ve worked in the hospitality industry since 1980. A fair amount of people in this field are homosexual; several of them are in high ranking positions. Most belong to a Protestant church that welcomes homosexuals. None of them are Catholics.

Are you saying that some homosexual men feel that joining the priesthood is a free ticket to escaping admitting their preference to some while still living the sexual lifestyle that they desire? I don’t know any Catholic priests, so this is an interesting concept.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

Wow, I never suspected anyone chose the priesthood expecting to be provided lovers of all ages. Personally, I don’t believe men straight or homosexual go into the priesthood for any of the reasons you mentioned.

jerv's avatar

There have been homosexuals for a long time; they were around before Judaism even came about thousands of years BC. Clergymen are humans that happen to have more knowledge of religion than laypeople, but they are still humans.

The Catholic Church started out behind the times and has only ever been current when they are in complete control since they were the only game in town. I mean, how can you be behind the times when all of those ahead of you have been converted or killed?

Personally, I think that it’s an invasion of privacy, and unless they took vows of chastity (not all churches require this), I see nothing wrong with it so long as it was all amongst consenting adults.

Blackberry's avatar

In my first answer I just realized I said ‘condone’, when I meant ‘condemn’. Lol…..

Aster's avatar

@Neizvestnaya I did not mean by “provide” that the church “provides” lovers for priests! I meant that the church offers a forum, a secret one, wherein homosexual males “have” a diverse selection of “victims” of all ages from which to choose. From children to other priests to nuns, some more willing than others.

Ron_C's avatar

.I think many of you have taken the question wrong. In the Catholic the priests swear that they will not have sex. (I think they even frown on masturbation.) The point is if a person is not having sex, what difference is there if the person is homosexual or heterosexual? They are by oath asexual. Regardless how or with whom they transgress their oath, they have committed a sin in the eyes of the church. Therefore, unless children are involved, the sin is between the transgressor and the persons confessor. Punishment is determined by the confessor. I assume that punishment depends on the gravity of the sin.

I’m not catholic so I don’t care how they handle “sins” that do not involve me or crimes against children.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

I’m still not getting why you think homosexual men need victims rather than partners and would need the church as a crutch.

Aster's avatar

@Neizvestnaya I do not think homosexual men need victims. I know they need partners. But if they want partners AND respectability AND an income AND anonymity, can you see how the priesthood might offer them all three? The church would provide the answers to their needs and desires; not a crutch, exactly.
Furthermore, the fact that enough homosexual males become priests and have cost the church hundreds of millions of dollars in lawsuits and coverups , confirms my argument.
I hope this clears up your confusion. I am unable to explain it any clearer.

aprilsimnel's avatar

I think what you’ve described, @Aster are pedophilic men who go into the priesthood. I’ve not heard of an adult male homosexual suing the Church because he was raped/assaulted by a priest as an adult.

If there’s a group of men who believe that serving the Church as priests and vowing celibacy will take away their dangerous impulses, it’d be pedophiles.

Neizvestnaya's avatar

I agree with what @aprilsimnel just wrote. Pedophiles often believe religion will “cure” them or keep them from acting out on their impulses and maybe that the draw of priesthooh- they think abstaining will solve everything and then they end up surrounded by what they are trying to avoid. Okay, I see what @Aster may have been getting at but I don’t usually associate homosexual men with pedophilia.

Ron_C's avatar

@aprilsimnel good answer. In real-life, it most child abusers are heterosexual. The worst thing the church did was cover its ass rather than prosecute the offenders. I think they reacted like all big institutions, protect the institution, members need are secondary.

Organizationally and mentally, there is not a lot of difference between big churches and big international industries like BP. The differences are in names and product only.

jerv's avatar

@Ron_C And neither of them pay taxes :P

stardust's avatar

Homosexuality is not wrong. When priests take a vow of celebacy and condemn homosexuality(as the catholic religion does), it’s hypocritical to act on either.

mattbrowne's avatar

No. But it’s wrong to discriminate against them.

Ron_C's avatar

@jerv you are right, it seems that the bigger the organization, the less taxes that are paid. Developing a religion is a short cut to tax freedom.

@mattbrowne I notice that the people that are most against homosexuals are the ones most insecure about their sexuality.

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