Meta Question

anartist's avatar

Why must discussion of the missed be forever verboten?

Asked by anartist (14732 points ) April 9th, 2012

Several times a thread of this sort is aborted.
And it is one sore point I have with Fluther administration.
How do other jellies feel?

I do hope the mods will allow discourse on this.
Please?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

59 Answers

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

Perhaps it’s to keep the feeling like Fluther is some sort of popularity contest at bay?

The rule that we mustn’t name names is a tough one to grasp.

marinelife's avatar

Because naming individual jellies leads to popularity contests, feelings of being left out and general misunderstandings.

anartist's avatar

I do not believe that it leads to popuarity contests such as, perhaps what you refer to, sme ancient discussion of “Golden Jellies” which, if I remember correctly, referred more to whether some jellies were exempt from modding.

jonsblond's avatar

I can see how some might feel left out if they aren’t mentioned in a list of “What jelly would you want to be marooned with” type question. I understand how that can lead to a popularity contest and members feeling left out. But mentioning the users who are no longer around, and only mentioning that we miss them, well, I just don’t see how that hurts anyone. How are the users who aren’t here going to know if they are mentioned or not if they aren’t here to witness it? Who is being hurt in this situation?

Symbeline's avatar

Probably because of the naming rule. Although this has been changed; you can now name a member, active or not, as long as it isn’t in negative light of that member. Ask either Auggie or a mod for details about how that works.

Brian1946's avatar

Yeah, I felt so hurt when nobody said they missed me when I won my Circumnavigator Award. ;-)

anartist's avatar

If they are not active on the site, how could their feelings be hurt? Conversely, if they are active, how could they be affected, one way or the other, about a Q concerning inactive jellies?

Judi's avatar

There used to be a lot of drama when a jelly left, then they would come back and there would be a lot of drama and someone would accuse them of being attention whores and feelings would get hurt and people would feel like they had to change their identity in order to participate. It makes sense to me. Come and go as you please, but lets not make a big deal out of it.

anartist's avatar

I also worry about a former jelly who had had some hard things happen to him @strangerinastrangeland

augustlan's avatar

We did change the ‘no naming names’ rule to be a bit more lenient, allowing positive mentions (but not whole questions that are essentially popularity contests). Since the rule change, a positive thread about ex-jellies would not be a problem. However, this last question wasn’t just about jellies who are gone, but also included less active jellies who are still members of the site. That sets up a personality contest, which – as mentioned above – we don’t allow. In addition, even though the question itself was worded in a positive way, some members took this as an opportunity to expound on folks they don’t miss. Negative mentions of people who are not here to defend themselves are still not allowed.

anartist's avatar

i have no problem with modding negative mentions, nor, I suspect, do other jellies.
But I do want to pay tribute to the very much missed.

ucme's avatar

Because it’s sadly inevitable to be turned into a pissing contest.
Most of the folks mentioned on that thread I hadn’t even noticed their absence.

anartist's avatar

@ucme everyone on fluther finds different persons/jellies that he or she bonds with / feels a rapport with particularly, just like making friends at work or at school.

There as many jellies on here as are the people in a town, or the sailors on an aircraft carrier [check how many of the basic awards have been issued]. Not everyone will know everyone.

Blackberry's avatar

I miss [Redacted]. Oh yeah, I’m a rebel.

Edit: Ok, I’m not.

janbb's avatar

I find the stringency of this enforcement a little jarring too. I sometimes enjoy those walks down memory lane and agree that negative comments can be modded out individually.

marinelife's avatar

@augustlan Did the policy change get announced?

ucme's avatar

@anartist That’s all very nice & everything, but your point is?

augustlan's avatar

@marinelife It did, here:

No questions that name another member, except lurve milestone parties. (The odd exceptions, like congrats on a wedding or baby, or support for an illness or surgery – need to be approved by me in advance).

No popularity contests. (Who’s your Fluther crush, Who’s your favorite jelly, Which jelly would you like to meet, etc.).

^^ NOTE: This is the reason that last question was removed… because it discussed current members, along with ex-members. That made it a popularity contest.

No naming names in a negative way.

No revealing personal info without the member’s permission. (So-and-so is a Christian, etc.).

————————————————————-
So, the point I was trying to make up there is that a question asking which ex-members you miss would be allowed, as long as it was done in a positive way. You are also free to make a passing remark, such as “I miss so-and-so”, even if they are a current member.

What is not allowed is asking a question about which current members you miss, like, want to meet, party with, etc. Since the most recent question included both ex- and current members, it was pulled.

anartist's avatar

@ucme apropos of your comment here quoted:
Because it’s sadly inevitable to be turned into a pissing contest.
Most of the folks mentioned on that thread I hadn’t even noticed their absence.

How can it be a pissing contest, when different folks remember different folks and miss them?

@augustlan This was a technicality that totally flew right by me.

augustlan's avatar

@anartist I thought that might be the case, that people were missing the fact that current members were included in the most recent example. :)

lillycoyote's avatar

I have a feeling I’m going to regret this one, but here it goes. Honesty. I think I’ll give a try.

It’s not so much about the missed as it is about singling people out. And, @anartist, it does lead to popularity contests. What if you went away for a while and came back to find a thread where everyone was going on and on about how they missed this person or that person, and that person and this other person, just fucking gushing over it, about how great these people were and what a loss to the community it was that they are now gone, except none of those people anyone missed or gushed over or appreciated were you? No on missed you, no one commented on what a great member of the community you were, maybe no one even noticed you were gone… you are made of tougher stuff than me, because it would make me cry, for real, I’d be weeping in front of my computer, in my favorite rolling chair, if that happened to me.

And, it kind of has. But not for a long time. There have been any number of those kinds of questions over the years, before they were banned or whatever, where people got singled out and everyone talked about how great so and so or someone else or this person or that person was and I was almost never one of those people on those lists or who got mentioned on those threads and it hurts. It hurts because you feel like you put some time and effort in it’s nice that people notice, and and yes, I know who my friends are and that’s really what matters, and no, I’m not really just a big, fat baby, but it still hurts and it hurts stupid, which makes it even worse. I’m in my early 50’s and those questions sometimes made me feel like I was 12 again, when I was one of the last two standing in the school yard dodgeball pick. It hurts stupid like that.

And maybe I just need to toughen up, to suck it up. To grow a pair or at least grow a thicker skin but I’m not made that way. Some people are, good for them, but I’m not. And I don’t want to become someone you can hurt and not feel it. And even more, I don’t want to become someone who can see other people get hurt and not give a shit. Other people may play it differently but I am what I am.

Anyway, that’s my two cents. :-)

Judi's avatar

@lillycoyote , glad I wasn’t the only big cry baby.

Bellatrix's avatar

Gives @lillycoyote a huge virtual hug and whispers by the way, I missed you while you were away and I am thrilled to see you here.

lillycoyote's avatar

@Bellatrix Thanks so much. I just really think some people don’t understand how these kinds of questions can hurt people and they do. I just wanted people to see from the other side.

@Judi And thank you to, so very much! I’m pretty damn glad to know I’m wasn’t the only big cry baby too. :-)

Bellatrix's avatar

I know you did and I agree. I really did miss you though!

lillycoyote's avatar

@Bellatrix You’re so sweet. I really am not so very fragile. I’m actually, in many ways, pretty damn tough. And anyone who might think I’m not all I can say is: :“Fuck you! I’d like to see you deal with half the shit I’ve dealt with in my life and still end up as delightful and charming as I am.” :-)

I bet you thought I was going to say something like ”... and still end up as sane as I am…” :-)

But, I have “fault lines.” I think everyone does, everyone has areas where they are vulnerable whether they are able to acknowledge and identify them or not, whether or not they can deal with them in a healthy way.

Bellatrix's avatar

:-) Well I would have been fine with “Fuck you! Etc.” You have never struck me as anything like fragile though! I am going to listen to some of those accent challenges now.

lillycoyote's avatar

@Bellatrix Yes, do the accent challenge, at least read/listen to the comments. It’s wonderful to not just hear the ways of speaking but to hear people’s voices. It makes them come alive instead of just being words on your computer screen. And I fully expect you to go to http://audioboo.fm/, that’s what and and most people seem to be using, for this Q and record your Austrailianess in all it’s glory. I would love to hear what you sound like.

I did it. So can you.

Bellatrix's avatar

I did! It is very interesting to hear the different accents. I asked you a question there. I had to use that Vocaroo thing because the audioboo thing wouldn’t work for me. Well not so Australian. I sound more British. It’s there! You can go and listen.

lillycoyote's avatar

@Bellatrix LOL. I think we have officially hijacked this thread now and it is becoming our own personal “love fest.” And I don’t care. I have missed you and everyone else here.

And It’s more than o.k. with me if you sound more British than Australian. :-) One of my very favorite books is Neville Shute’s A Town Like Alice I’m really not much for reading romances but I think it is one of the greatest love stories ever told; and I must confess, that I actually like the mini-series, with Bryan Brown and Helen Morse more than I like the book and that is very, very rare for me; to like a film or television adaptation better that I like a book.

But the Brits and the Australians back each other up on that one, so if you sound more British than Australian, that’s o.k with me. :-)

Now I am actually headed off the the Q; to hear what you actually sound like.

TexasDude's avatar

One thing that nobody has mentioned is the troll issue, as well. There are several formerly respected members who were more often than not, deservedly banned for trollish behavior or for general ass-hattery. Some of them still monitor the site and are emboldened when the general Flutherite public who may have had little or no experience with their trolldom and are thus ignorant of the implications talks about missing them. This can inadvertently validate their previous actions, and in some cases, leads them to come back in a different incarnation, which is a glorious pain in the ass to the mods. Forbidding people to wax poetic about missing so-and-so mitigates this, which is good for everyone and the site itself, whether you agree or not. That’s my two pennies on the issue.

Keep_on_running's avatar

@lillycoyote .”..sometimes made me feel like I was 12 again, when I was one of the last two standing in the school yard dodgeball pick. It hurts stupid like that.”

I feel that way sometimes too. I completely understand what you’re saying.

marinelife's avatar

@augustlan OK, thanks for pointing that out.

SpatzieLover's avatar

I agree with @lillycoyote.

Also, so many old members have come back under completely different names. So you could say “I miss so & so” when in actuality that user is still here. For a while I really missed one user…then I put two & two together and figured out they were still here ;)

I do miss some old names & avatars. However, singling those out might unintentionally hurt someone else’s feelings. I don’t want to play a part in that.

anartist's avatar

@lillycoyote so you were one of the last two picked for dodgeball or the softball team too?
I will admit that when I leave a site I like for a while I might notice or think I notice that nobody missed me, and feel a little disappointed. But, what the hey, I’m here because I enjoy it, and I enjoy a lot of the company.

janbb's avatar

Oh – softball season was a horrow in my youth!

linguaphile's avatar

@lillycoyote I’m can be a crybaby too, sometimes, for the same reasons. You’re not alone! :) :) Sometimes it might be just that day, or that moment, I can’t handle being overlooked, but other days it wouldn’t bother me.

jonsblond's avatar

I just had an old question in my activity and I noticed someone who isn’t here anymore. Darkscribe. May I ask about him here? Does anyone know what happened to him? I do miss his contributions here.

janbb's avatar

@jonsblond I know he had had some bouts of skin cancer but I don’t know if that’s why he left the last time.

lillycoyote's avatar

@anartist Yes, dodge ball, soft ball, field hockey and kick ball too. No shortage of opportunities to be rejected and humiliated in those days. :-). And that was just gym period. Ugh! And I just remember how awful it was. The picks would go pretty quickly until the last two standing and then time seemed to stand still. For the love of God, just decide! I can take being the last one picked, being declared the “biggest loser” by default, but are my defects so legion that it is taking you this long to tally them up in your head and compare them to my competition for “biggest loser?” Just fucking pick one of us and let’s get on with this.

And @linguaphile Yes, I’m that way too. Honestly, I am really not all that fragile, not all that very weak, but some days, sometimes, it just doesn’t seem to take much more than that sort of thing to hurt my feelings. I bounce back pretty fast though. No wallowing for me. I was just trying to give some perspective to it. Thanks for the support.

@janbb :-) It all sucked, didn’t it.

anartist's avatar

@jonsblond Damn, memory lane. I had the worst fight with Darkscribe that I ever had on fluther. He was[is?] a photographer /editor /writer and we fought hard over what copyrights existed or didn’t with regard to US government photos. We both told each other to eat our shorts. Others on the thread referee’d or kept score. I saw him occasionally on here after that, but jeez I forgot all about him. @janbb thanks for the update.

Is one more likely to forget someone one fought with than someone one laughed with?

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
Response moderated
ucme's avatar

I’ve no idea who the hell he is/was.

augustlan's avatar

See what happens?!?

FutureMemory's avatar

Maybe I should find his old posts where he insulted me and flag them?

Response moderated
FutureMemory's avatar

I flagged the one I specifically remembered. Not going to bother going on a search for the others.

anartist's avatar

I sure do wish I know what I missed here!

but here is the thread where Darkscribe and I duked it out.

FutureMemory's avatar

Speaking of threads where certain people duked it out, whenever I want to provide an example for someone on just how dramatic Fluther threads can get, I give them a link to this question.

I had only been on Fluther for a week or two when it happened…what a frightening ntroduction to the site :)

augustlan's avatar

@FutureMemory I loved that thread!

Response moderated
lillycoyote's avatar

Sometimes I wish I knew what I missed here, but then I realize and remember that I much prefer to fly above, below or completely around, as best I can, all the drama, the sturm and drang, the storm and the fury, the much ado about nothing that sometimes goes on here and on other sites. I am certainly not always successful and sometimes I choose to fly right into the thick of it, I will have to admit that, but avoiding all of that stuff is my general preference. I sometimes forget that.

LuckyGuy's avatar

This question is sadly appropriate. :-(

janbb's avatar

And where’s @lillycoyote too!

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther