(NSFW) What is your take on latest controversy about Last tango rape scene?

Statute of limitations.

This is a non issue.

Right, @SecondHandStoke – it’s 45+ years ago. It’s dead.

Brando is dead too. If anyone would be legally culpable, it would be Brando. Not the director.

And this is a 45+ year old movie. Where’s the proof? You have a couple of quotes from Schnieder, years later, saying “I was used”. But that’s a far cry from rape.

Nothing here but salacious interest.

It’s called acting.

@Espiritus_Corvus I kind of disagree; it would have been acting if they had told her what was coming. As it is now presented, it sure smacks of exploitation.

I hadn’t heard of the controversy so I did some reading. I think this article is a very nuanced treatment:

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/09/sad-post-script-last-tango-paris/

There was no rape. Schneider said so, Brando said so, Bertolucci said so, and cinematographer Vittorio Storaro—the man who actually filmed the scene—said so. The fact is, a young actress without proper representation on the set was pressured into playing an anal rape scene not in the script where the rapist uses butter as a lubricant. This was hardly the first time a director did something unethical to freak an actor out to get an “honest, human reaction” as it is so artistically put..

Hitchcock was notorious for it. Tippi Hedren spoke volumes about Hitchcock’s sexual harassment and outright emotional sadism and threats when she wouldn’t cooperate. Goddamn, just watch his early films from the twenties and thirties with an eye for BDSM and it’s all there. It got past the censors because the censors didn’t understand what they were seeing. Erich von Stroheim was the same or worse and finally driven out of the director’s chair.

It is legion in the film industry and has been going on forever. It is still happening today because people will do anything to get in front of the camera. I suspect many of the female directors who are complaining about this current controversy are themselves quite guilty of it.

If people want to change the way some directors work, fine. Boycott the films, but people won’t. They have to look. My guess is at this very moment Last Tango in Paris downloads are burning up the net. Hell, there is a Last Tango butter recipe.

But with all the other shit that is going on in this world today, this is just another emotional hot button side show. This story has been around forever, and it was confirmed by Brando, Bertolucci, Storaro and others who were on the set that day. Where was everybody when Schneider first complained about this? Probably too busy watching films to care. Bertolucci and Brando were up for Oscars. Schneider, if you remember, got slut shamed. Schneider was screwed, royally, but she wasn’t raped. So, why the new controversy? November 25th was International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.

Personally, I think they could have come up with a better poster child than a dead actress who was humiliated 47 years ago when she was 19. Much better would have been highlighting the details of women’s lives who live in countries today where disfigurement, forced circumcision and rape go unpunished. But to get all excited about Last Tango after all this time is bullshit.

Schneider said “They only told me about it before we had to film the scene and I was so angry. I should have called my agent or had my lawyer come to the set because you can’t force someone to do something that isn’t in the script but at the time, I didn’t know that.” which sounds like she was told beforehand, and she also said there was not sexual intercourse on the set during the filming. Source
The cinematographer, who had two cameras going, also said there was no rape, or sexual intercourse.
But, I am reminded of a Hollywood story (I think it was Jackie Cooper in “The Champ”), where the director wanted real tears in a scene, so he told the child actor that after they shoot the emotional scene, he would be taken home, because the child’s mother had just died in a car accident. They filmed the scene, which is intense, and the boy’s mother suddenly appeared to reassure the boy he had been tricked. I can’t fathom the damage done by such maneuvers.

@Espiritus_Corvus That’s kind of what the article says.

Of course it’s past statute of limitations and no one can be punished.

But I do think, based on the description that I’ve read (the director’s own words) that what happened to that woman was rape.

Pity.

I’m amazed to see any sane person say that this was not rape. She was a 19-year old girl, and two creepy old men conspired to get a “genuine” reaction to a rape from her by surprise. Could this be any more clear?

@dappled_leaves Well, the question of rape or not rape in my mind is whether he actually entered her. I haven’t seen the film and don’t want to. But it surely was assault and humiliation even if she wasn’t entered. And that Tippi Hedren was assaulted, harassed and abused by Hitchcock does not make it any better. And the argument that that’s the way it is in Hollywood is very reactionary.

Reactionary? Jesus Christ.

By bringing in the behaviour of directors like Hitchcock and Stroheim I was attempting to highlight the larger problem—the Tradition of Sexual Exploitation in the film industry, including that of children, that was and is standard operating procedure before, during and after Maria Schneider’s experience on the set of Tango. Since the dawn of film, sexual exploitation on and off the set has not only been tacitly tolerated by the public, but has been a great source of entertainment in literature, music and pornographic films.

How many articles on this are extrapolating Schneider’s experience to the experiences of thousands of other actors with the same complaints concerning the past and present predatory behaviour of directors, producers, executives and even fellow actors with their greater status in the film industry? None that I have read.

How many women’s organizations defended Schneider in her lifetime? Only two high-profile individuals did consistently as far as I know—when it didn’t hurt their own careers—Angelica Houston and Bridget Bardot.

And now, after 40 years of trying to shake the typecast that colored her reputation and career, long after she is quietly in her grave, this controversy is suddenly unearthed to renewed outrage. Only this time, at least they got the victim right.

But, unless this new concern is protracted to address the larger problem, it is just more Hollywood dish for the masses in a society that is addicted to celebrity “news”. It’s only fap material if it isn’t used to institute change which, as far as I can see, it isn’t.

It’s bullshit—pure, unadulterated hypocrisy.

@Espiritus_Corvus As I said, I wasn’t even aware of this as an issue until I read the question so I’m not seeing all the hyperbole. But I’m saving my outrage for other issues at this point – there are so many – and I’m sure you are too.

As my very nuanced cited article pointed out, it is difficult to go back and try to re-view actions of the past through the window of the rape culture attitudes we are facing today.

After being called a goddamned Libertarian earlier this week, I’m a bit sensitive. Sorry for any misunderstandings.

Pax.

—tibi domine.

@dappled_leaves “I’m amazed to see any sane person say that this was not rape.”

Newsflash, Arnold Schwarzenegger isn’t a mass murderer despite the “video evidence” in films such as “The Terminator” and “Commando.” You see, in films and plays, actions are simulated without actually happening in real life…

Brando’s penis never penetrated Schneider. Given that fact, I’m shocked that any sane person would say a rape took place.

I would say that the scene was filmed unethically and that there were massive violations of trust.

I cannot see by the preponderance of evidence how this is any different than the sex scenes in Lip Stick, Dead calm, The Accused, A Clockwork Orange, etc. you never really seen where his hands were and writhing over a anyone with your slacks up doesn’t say anything was inserted anywhere. Off the OQ I would guess a ploy to divert people’s attention from Hillary’s crushing defeat some are still smarting over.

(You can look up the movies yourself, as some of the content might be too sexy for some to stomach)