General Question

josie's avatar

Why did you not vote for Hillary Clinton?

Asked by josie (26284points) 3 weeks ago

On this site, I am sure the thread will be short, if it develops at all.

Plus, to be fair, I asked the “antithetical” question as well.
http://www.fluther.com/197636/why-did-you-vote-for-hillary-clinton/
Note, this is in General.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

31 Answers

Coloma's avatar

I didn’t vote, period. I refuse to vote until I am voting for the greater of two goods vs. the lesser of two evils. Hasn’t happened yet, almost, I would have voted for Bernie in a heartbeat, but of course, it was never going to happen.

josie's avatar

Good answer
But when it comes to politics, just when do you imagine you are going to get the chance to pick between two goods?

Zissou's avatar

I voted for Sanders in the primary. In the general, I checked the box for Clinton, but I prefer to say I voted against Trump rather than for Clinton, so in that sense I did not vote for Clinton.

Reasons:
She bungled healthcare reform during Bill Clinton’s presidency.
I didn’t like the way she shopped around for an office she could win after Bill left office.
She voted for the Iraq war.
I didn’t like the way she colluded with the Democratic establishment to try and short-circuit the primaries in 2008.
To the extent that she stands for anything at all other than her own ambition, she stands for everything that is dysfunctional about the Democratic party: stale 70s feminism, identity politics, feeble centrism on economic issues that affect working people; in short, no compromise on culture war, too much compromise on class war, and too hawkish on actual war.

*edit: I’m willing to entertain the idea that she may be serious about children’s welfare.

Cruiser's avatar

For me it was very cut and dried. She was a torch bearer of Obama’s tax plan and regulations and I could not bear to think of another 4 years of such an administration so toxic to small businesses let alone any business. My vote was not a selfish vote it was an informed vote…something I see as a very rare moment these days during the election cycle. My vote was less about my personal interests than by the interests of my company and the legacy of the company and the opportunity that was so stifled the last 8 years. My vote was about my employees who have not had a meaningful raise in 10 year and a 45% increase in health care premiums my employees have had to endure because of the implementation of the ACA. My vote was all about the oppressive OSHA Global Harmonizing Standards forced upon my industry that cost us all hundreds of thousands of dollars to implement and has no clear purpose other than to appease foreign shipping regulations which we were already compliant on! Seriously?!?

Lousy economy
.01% interest rates
Red lines in the sand that has the Middle East a hot mess
Record entitlement spending
record deficit
Gutted military
National Security
Immigration
Education
20 Trillion in debt of which 90% of our annual Federal budget now goes to just paying down the interest! WTF!

All of the above is in shambles…and the VA is a disgrace…yeah….I voted for a hot steaming turd but it held much more hope to me than the Clinton/Obama alternative. Hope and change baby!

Coloma's avatar

@Cruiser Yep, the pathetic crash of interest rates were the death rattle for my small fortune. haha

@josie Probably never but my integrity demands that I do not compromise.
This election was like trying to ask yourself if you’d rather be stabbed to death or drowned. Each are equally horrendous.

ucme's avatar

I am ineligible to vote in your country

gorillapaws's avatar

I voted for Jill Stein. She was the only candidate running that didn’t take money from Super-PACs, and frankly she was the only one who could say with a straight face that she was going to try to break up the big banks. I believe very strongly that the biggest threat to our nation’s future is the destruction of out middle class and deregulation of our financial sector including the subsequent merger of small/medium banks into massive financial institutions combined with 0 prosecutions for abuse. There is almost no oversight. Look at the CEO of Wells Fargo as an example. The guy gets to retire with 10s of millions of dollars after defrauding millions of Americans via bogus account fraud. If FDR was president he’d be sharing a cell with Bernie Madoff. If there’s no consequences for abuse the people in power will continue to abuse.

The 2 major parties are essentially identical with regards to corporate policy, and the corporate controlled media never talks about it. The Dems have abandoned the working class in favor of the cocktail party circuit with lobbyists and billionaires. The Clintons are largely to blame for pulling the party in this direction. In the past I used to think highly of both Bill and Hillary. As I learn more (and more comes to light), I’m disgusted with what they’ve done to the Democratic Party. Im disgusted with how the DNC fixed the primaries, fighting tooth-and-nail to exclude Bernie voters from the party during the primary and then blamed the loss on them when they didn’t turn out in November.

As much as I hate Trump, I think Clinton may have actually done more damage to this country. By basically being a Republican in Democrat clothing, she was going lead the party further away from the New Deal Democratic vision of the party. Having 2 parties that are basically the same when it comes to their actions (not necessarily their rhetoric) is much more dangerous than having a lunatic in the executive. Having a president who pretends to be for the environment but goes around the world promoting fracking while getting millions of donations from fossil fuel companies, is worse than one who is against the environment, in the same way that having a saboteur among your friends is more dangerous than an enemy that’s flying the flag of the enemy. I believe the Democratic Party is infested with such saboteurs and they’re being paid well to aid the agenda of the 1% while pretending to be for the working class.

The best proof is that we’ve now got Chuck “Wall Street” Schumer and Nancy Pelosi in power.

…Immediately after loosing to the least-liked candidate in history.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Because she is a corrupt, sociopathic corporate shill in this for her personal ego and wallet. That’s why.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Everything you just pinned on Hillary because of rumors, @ARE_you_kidding_me can be applied to Trump with proof.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Rumors or not enough stacked her way to make the case pretty cut and dry for a lot of people including me. She is not a leader. Neither is Trump so I’m not sure why it matters but proof of his corruption, sociopathy and ego stroking can be found where? Oh, yes..rumors. Really the two are not very different. Two sides of the same coin if you asked me.

Coloma's avatar

^ Yep, both cut from the same black cloth. haha

rojo's avatar

I did not vote for Clinton in the primary because she did not represent or support those things I thought most important to me. She was not, in my opinion, the best candidate for the position of President and certainly not the best the Democrats had available.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@ARE_you_kidding_me video and audio of him and his disgusting behavior do not come under the heading of “rumor” @ARE_you_kidding_me.
All the allegations against Hillary do.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@Dutchess_III disgusting behavior was not in my post. Clinton has said some pretty nasty things too. Both disgust me pretty much in the same ways.

Dutchess_III's avatar

OK, lets stick with what you specified: corruption, sociopathy (Kelly pressed Trump about misogynistic, sexist comments he made in the past, such as calling some women “fat pigs, dogs, slobs, and disgusting animals.”) and ego stroking (“And when you’re a star they let you do it,” Trump said. “You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy…..You can do anything.” He also made references to the size of his penis.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Dutch, did I not say many times that I feel both have basically the same profile?

Cruiser's avatar

@Dutchess_III Hillary’s behavior may not have approached the level of Trumps but her comments often were “deplorable” and why IMO she lost the election.

Dutchess_III's avatar

But you can’t offer any evidence that Hillary behaves that way. All you’re going on are rumors, or misrepresentations started by her enemies.

Cruiser's avatar

I thought I dropped enough of a hint there @Dutchess_III Hillary insulting the sensibilities and judgement of all the Trump supporters calling us all “deplorables” was IMO dumber than the dumbest of Trump comments of the entire election. And the way she gave the comment in such a mocking condescending way is what did her in.

Dutchess_III's avatar

She said half of you are deplorable. And she’s spot on. But she, at least, did apologize.

Deplorables. His camp is full of racists and misogynists, all wrapped up in a blanket of violence, intolerance and hatred. Pretty damn deplorable if you ask me.

rojo's avatar

@Cruiser

Lousy economy – The economy and by all standards of measurements looks better than it did in 2008. Perhaps it is in ones perspective.

.01% interest ratesinterest rates have remained flat after a major plummet in 2008. Is that good or bad? You say bad, I say maybe not so much, it has allowed people to purchase homes and other material goods which helps the market economy we have chosen. Savings however are not justified given the low rate and that is a negative. Low rates also allow businesses to borrow more for less and this should equate to more expansion. Unfortunately most of the expansion goes overseas and the increased profits go to the stockholders and corporate officers. You will blame this on government regulation, I will blame it on corporate greed. Again, perspective

Red lines in the sand that has the Middle East a hot mess – The middle east has been a hot mess for hundreds of years and will continue to be so whether or not we are involved, and the only reason we care now is control of their oil resources. Bit late now to say we should have stayed out but if I had my way we would pull all our resources out and let them fight it out among themselves as they had been doing before we got there. Definitely a matter of perspective

Record entitlement spendingEntitlement spending has been rising constantly since the government has been in existence and with only minor blips or flattenings. The vast majority of the present spending is on health care and as long as they have the ability to spend vast amounts on corrupting the political system it will continue to rise. Neither Trump nor the Real Republicans show any interest in curbing this source of income for themselves. From my perspective, more of our cash needs to be in providing for the citizens of the US and not for corporate welfare, overseas wars and military bases and foreign aid. But that is just my perspective.

record deficit – the Federal deficit has dropped considerably since the major expansion in 2008/2009 where it rose in response to the crash (we can argue what policies and by whom they were instigated later, here is a chart showing how and when we turned a surplus into a deficit), in fact, it was lower in 2015 than in 2008. Admittedly it has risen somewhat this last year but is still lower than several of the Bush years. So, overall not as bad as you would believe. An argument could be made that the only way to get a surplus is to quit our expansionist empire building and let the corporations fight their own battles. Perspective

Gutted militaryGutted Military in 2016 we have almost double the military budget we had 2001. Now this is down from 2010 when we were actually spending over twice as much as 2001 Where is the gutting? We spend more than, what is it, the total of the next 26 largest military budgets combined? At 54% of our discretionary spending, it is hard to believe we have gutted it. Perhaps a diet is in order. Perhaps we should quit trying to be the worlds police man. Again, perspective.

National Security – What counts as national security depends on your perspective. Some people consider wars overseas to be national security. Others consider the U.S. military, fighter aircraft, and the American nuclear weapon stockpile to be national security. Some people consider giving weapons to other countries to be national security. After Sept. 11, 2001, we created the Department of Homeland Security and poured hundreds of billions of dollars into it, and some people consider that to be national security. Since 2001 there has been a budgetary increase of 25% in Military Acquisition, 34% in O & M and 46% for personnel. What more do you want? If you don’t feel more secure now are you ever going to do so, particularly with a hothead at the button. From my perspective I prefer to have less security and more individual liberty.

Immigration – The present administration has deported more illegal aliens and spent billions more on border security than any past administration. Again, what more do you want? More work needs to be done but a border wall won’t help at all. The vast majority are people who overstay their visa, not ones that cross the desert sands. Are you more worried about the person being here illegally, the color of their skin or their effect on the economy? American businesses like them because they will work for less.

Education – Ok, here we are probably in agreement but probably have differing perspective on why. From my point of view it has to do with the devaluation of education in the public arena and the focus on personal satisfaction in the moment. The entire country has ADHD. Did the education system cause this? No, it is a product of our societal priorities and no matter how much more we throw at it, it will not change or improve unless we as a society do so.

20 Trillion in debt of which 90% of our annual Federal budget now goes to just paying down the interest! WTF! – So, even if Obama had stopped borrowing, something that I am told is impossible) thing back in 2009 we would still be paying the interest. And even if we as a country stop borrowing tomorrow (or on January 20th) we will still be paying on it for a long, long time. In order to throw more money at the interest payment, what do you propose we eliminate from the federal budget? Or more realistically, which budgets do you think we can reduce and by how much without causing panic and/or danger?

NerdyKeith's avatar

I’m not allowed to vote for American elections.

jonsblond's avatar

@gorillapaws said it better than I ever could. I voted for Stein.

SergeantQueen's avatar

Because I am smart.

Dutchess_III's avatar

^^^^Did you vote for Trump?

SergeantQueen's avatar

I actually didn’t vote at all I was just being an instigator

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

That as it turns out was probably the smartest vote of all.

NerdyKeith's avatar

PS I just couldn’t let the Hillary Shimmy go… sorry but it was just the last straw for me.

Cruiser's avatar

^^ THAT is absolutely brilliant!

NerdyKeith's avatar

@Cruiser Haha that was hilarious.

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