Have you ever heard of anyone being called selfish for NOT wanting to have children?

hormones can make people absurdly irrational.

I got the same thing from my mother when I was getting a divorce. He knew when we married that I didn’t want kids (and that I had know that since I was 15), and changed his mind over time. When she asked why I was divorcing, I said that there were many problems, but the easiest to explain was the issue of children. She told me that I was being selfish. Thanks for the maternal support.

Mothers, who are genetically predisposed to encourage their immediate family to bear children, are more successful at propagating their genetics, and so increase the prevalence of such a trait.

People want you to be just like them, and often upset when you choose something different. With parents, hearing their child is not inclined to want children themselves, makes them wonder if their children find fault in how they projected parenting.

It is not selfish to not want children. It’s selfish to encourage others to have children they don’t really want, or are not emotionally or financially prepared to care for.

maybe she just wanted you to have the same kind of experience that she did. some people have wonderful experience and then there are some people who question themselves every day. I think if you truly don’t want children then don’t have them. This is not the 1950’s to where are bodies are only for baby making. :)

Old people have outdated values lol. They don’t think rationally and don’t include factors like you know….money and enjoying youth.

Yes I have heard that.
My brother-in-law and his wife decided they would not have any children. Her family was very upset and called them selfish.
Their decision, I believe was a very smart one. Neither one of them was cut out to be parents. They were both wise enough to know this. She did not have any maternal instincts or desires, and said as much. It was obvious to anyone who had been around her at all that she was uncomfortable around children and did not want to spend the time or energy that it takes to be a parent.
I admired them both for standing firm and not being swayed by her family or friends who did not seem to understand what a bad situation it might have been for them to have a child.
As for your mother @TheJoker , all I can say, as a mother and mother in law myself is, that we want grandchildren, we want you to experience being a parent as we have. We want you to know the joy and love that we have gotten from being a mom or dad.
Give her a chance to think about it and come to terms with it. Explain why if you can, she may always feel bad that you won’t have children, but she might change her mind about thinking you are being selfish.

She is obviously pissed that you aren’t going to experience what it is like being a parent and the hell that you put her through.

Seriously, let her cool down and talk about it with her at a later time when you can let her know all your reasons and she can explain why she is so upset about your decision.

It all depends on your ability and capacity to have a child. If you think a child could be a burden later in your life then you must make realistic explanation of how you can’t deal with that(besides,it’s all about your personal life and your own family. Not hers!). Many parents(especially when they became old) love to have so many offspring so they can see their line of family and inheritance will spread out.

Oh I’ve heard that all my life. It’s never once made sense. Who are they being selfish to? Being “selfish” isn’t just something that you are. It’s an act, something you do against another person or group of people. If you’re selfish with your money, you don’t donate to charities. If you’re selfish with the remote control, you don’t let your spouse control what’s on television. If you’re selfish with your music, you play your radio loudly and force everyone else to hear it.

Who are people who choose to be childless being selfish against? No one. There is no entity who suffers in the least due to this choice. The only way whatsoever this could even come close to making sense is if you
1) believe in “fate”,
2) believe that the children of this couple are somehow destined to exist in the future, and
3) believe that individuals can countermand fate, that they can change the predestination through their own force of will.
I have yet to meet anyone who will admit to holding three such contradictory beliefs. Hence, their opinion that the child-free couple is “selfish” is completely nonsensical.

I hear people calling women and men selfish for not having kids all the time. To me it seems selfish to have kids. Only wanting kids to feel loved and feel like you have a purpose in life, whilst not thinking of how the child would feel being brought up in the world where maybe it cannot be cared for and supported appropriately. Not having children is the most unselfish thing a person can do.

I agree with Wilma. Parents look forward to their kids having kids. In fact, a friend of mine read a theory that the primary genetic drive is to have grandchildren, not children. Don’t know if that is true or not, but there is a strong drive to see your kids become parents. That being said, of course it is the individual’s choice whether to have kids or not and no one is being selfish by deciding they don’t want them. Just give your Mom some time to come ‘round and maybe understand a bit the sense of loss she might be feeling.

What a strange thought.
If it’s supposed to be selfish towards the children, that’s already a questionable view when you’re already pregnant and considering abortion. It becomes downright nonsensical if it hasn’t even come to that yet.
You don’t owe it to a potential future person to make them exist.
And I can’t think of anyone else whom you could wrong by not having children. If anything, you’d do the world a favour by helping to rein in the overpopulation problem.

@Fyrius “You don’t owe it to a potential future person to make them exist…If anything, you’d do the world a favour by helping to rein in the overpopulation problem.”

Hit the nail on the head there, couldn’t agree more.

Because she probably wants Grandchildren. I don’t want children, I wouldn’t want them to be like me.

Oh yeah. I think it’s selfish. The thing is that most of the people who don’t want children are exactly the people who should be having children. If you’re aware enough to understand over-population, then it’s like you will teach your children those values. If you refuse to have children, then the people who don’t care about the planet are the only ones having kids, and the problem of over-population will only get worse. If you use this as an excuse not to have children, then you are actually defeating the whole purpose of the gesture.

If you believe you don’t want children for reasons other than the desire to not contribute to overpopulation—then several of those reasons are also obviously selfish. For example, if you don’t want to have children because you don’t want your lifestyle to change, then clearly you are doing that for yourself.

One that’s a little trickier is if you don’t want to have children because you don’t believe you will be a good parent. You might think you will parent the way your parents did, and you don’t want to do to a child what was done to you. This attitude suggests that you don’t think anyone can learn from mistakes, which is ridiculous. If you are aware of problems, then you are most likely not to make that same mistake again. So it’s probably just an excuse to cover over some other reason. The self-hatred argument is a version of the “I don’t want to abuse” argument.

In some cases, though, the don’t want to abuse argument has merit. If you are pederast, for example, I think it would make sense to abstain from procreation. If you have a genetic condition like cystic fibrosis, I think it might make sense—or at the very least, to do genetic testing before allowing the pregnancy to continue.

Another reason I find problematic is if the person hates children. In general, I don’t think such people should have children. You can be pretty sure they will abuse the child. There’s also a part of me that wonders if it’s really true. I was always very uneasy and uncomfortable around children until I had my own. I always felt that my way of parenting would be anathema to most other parents, and they wouldn’t want me near their kids. But once I had my own, there was no one to tell me I couldn’t do it that way (unless they appeared at school with strange bruises and claimed to have fallen down the staircase). But, for the most part, I guess if you hate children—truly hate them—you would be doing everyone a favor by not having them.

[wundayatta now ducks and covers to protect himself from all the bombs he thinks will be sent his way]

@wundayatta There’s no reason to duck, you have valid points, but the fact is that these are all only opinions and individuals can lead their lives how they want, I have no problem stating that I know I’m selfish because I don’t want to spend my money on a kid and change my lifestyle :)

My dad told me that once as we were driving along in the car.When he saw the look on my face,he back-tracked alittle bit and excused people that are diabetic.<rolls eyes>Two of my siblings already had kids at this point so I figured I was home free.I was wrong!Either way,as much as I was suprised by his statement,it didn’t matter too much anyway as I’ve always done what I wanted.Having kids because of someone else’s whim is ridiculous.Looking back,maybe he wanted to see how I’d handle a “mini-me” as I put him and my mom through the worst out of all the kids. TS,dad!LOL!

That’s just silly. You either have the urge or not to reproduce, just like any other part of your personality.

I heard this one time from a very Catholic woman, telling one of her co-workers that it was selfish to [essentially, waste her husband’s sperm]. Her husband wanted children and she did not, which I think is a bigger problem than whether or not they should have kids or not.

@wundayatta & @Blackberry have hit the only possible sources of ‘selfishness’ I could associate with choosing not to procreate. Kids take time, money & require you to change your lifestyle. Some are willing & others aren’t. There’s no right or wrong.

I say it’s okay to be selfish. If you don’t look out for yourself, no one will. The next time your mom uses this argument, you could tell her she is selfish for wanting to force you to have kids…so she can have more grandkids.

Yes. But, the idiot who says such is a buffoon who should keep his ignorant opinion to himself.

Removed by me ‘cause I don’t wanna get into it.

Yes, I have heard that argument before. There are many reasons people might not want kids. Maybe they’re not interested in children. They may feel that children tie them down and keep them from doing things they want to do, such as traveling or focusing on their careers. Some people may call that selfish, but I call it being self-aware. If you
don’t think your lifestyle or personality is conducive to parenting, then you do your non-existent kids a favor by not having them!

Whenever people say that childless individuals or couples are selfish, I always wonder why people don’t just turn the question around on them. After all, child-rearing isn’t a purely selfless endeavor. Someone might have children to conform to societal pressure, peer presure, or pressure from one’s spouse and parents. Others might have children in order to live through them. And then there are those who do it because they want someone to care for them in their old age. I would argue that those are selfish reasons. To paraphrase and change JFK’s famous quote, “Ask not what your children can do for you, but what you can do for your children.”

@MrItty GA. The only other way a childless person could be selfish is if the population will die out if they don’t reproduce. In our overpopulated world, that’s certainly no longer a problem.

lonelydragon….you took the words right out of my fingers. john

@everyone, many thanks. You’ve all given me plenty to mull-over :)

@wundayatta
Hypothetical extension, possibly ridiculous: would you say that it’s also selfish to have chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla just because you personally like that taste more?

In your post you seem to treat not having children for your own sake as selfish, for example to preserve your life style. I would say that in order for something to be selfish, doing it only for yourself is not enough – it should also have repercussions for anyone else. To whom it is any of their business.

I’d say selfishness means valuing your own happiness over that of others; thus having chocolate ice cream just because you prefer it is not selfish, since nobody else gives a duck about your ice cream flavour. Similarly if you decide not to have kids just because you don’t want to, as long as that choice doesn’t aversely affect anyone, I wouldn’t think of that as selfishness.

@Fyrius I guess I think that people who choose not to have children are often those who think more and are more highly educated. In other words, they are people I think there should be more of on this planet. In choosing not to have children, they are hurting the chances of a better future for humanity. Thus, selfish.

Of course this argument depends on whether people who choose not to have children really are more educated or more intelligent. The people I know who choose this generally tend to be highly educated, but then, that’s who I hang out with. Not a generalizable sample.

But sure, if their choice doesn’t affect anyone else, then I wouldn’t think it was selfish. I also totally respect anyone’s choice not to have children. It just makes me sad, because not only do I think it would be better for the world, I have a sneaking suspicion that they would enjoy it far more than they thought they would. But who knows? They don’t have children and we’ll never know if the other course would have made a substantial improvement for both them and the world.

What would be selfish is to have children if you don’t want them (just look at Casey Anthony).

I have never been called selfish for not wanting to have children (biologically) but I often get told and it’s getting very boring now! that I will regret that decision one day, or soon change my mind. Even when saying that if I were to have kids (undecided) that I would feel more inclined to adopt that do it the “natural” way, I am still told that nothing beats having your own kids. So no, no one has ever accused me of being selfish but plenty have tried to change my mind which tells me that they think having children is the opposite of selfish.

@PandoraBoxx nailed it.

Of course it can be for selfish reasons, but not every person has the same reasons for not having children.
Most of the examples given in this thread from people whos parents call them selfish are being called selfish for unjust reasons. More for the parents selfish reasons for wanting grandchildren (probably). And that’s not right. But, some people who don’t have children feel superior to those that have chosen to have children, even though they themselves chose something for selfish reasons.

@casheroo For what reasons can it be selfish?

@casheroo Likewise I know a few parents who act superior around those that don’t have children. I have a friend who has a young baby and all of a sudden she has turned into a bit of a know-it-all. Parents and non parents can be as bad as each other here so it’s swings and roundabouts as far as I am concerned.

@Leanne1986 I’ve experienced that as well (from being around other parents) I find it highly annoying and choose not to associate with other parents like that. I just didn’t include that in my post, since I was talking about non-parents.

@casheroo “Of course it can be for selfish reasons, but not every person has the same reasons for not having children.”

Do you mean there are selfish reasons for not having children, or am I getting confused?

@HTDC Yes, that is what I said. I’m not in the mood to engage any further.

@casheroo That’s cool. I just wonder what reasons there can be that could possibly make someone selfish for deciding not to have children, but if you can’t tell me any it’s fine.

I don’t find it selfish at all. I think it’s very smart to not have kids just for the sake of having them. So many people do things because that’s what you’re “supposed to do”.

You sound responsible to me.

@knitfroggy I second that.

My daughter was born with CP and a lot of time was involved in getting her to be the most independent person she could be. Her 1st neurologist recommended she be institutionalized but she lives on her own, works and volunteers to talk to parents of disabled children. She also works with self advocacy groups.

This all took a lot of work by both of us but since I didn’t share that with family members I guess it looked easy. Family members often said I was selfish not to have more children but I knew my choices were right and that’s all I needed.

On the other hand life has a tendency to change our priorities and baby ‘mones have a tendency to pop up unexpectedly.

Well said @wundayatta and @Blackberry

My wife and I are in the group that does not want children either. She has two brothers with severe MD and fears the possibility that she might have to go through the hell her parents did (and are still going through). She may have other reasons but that’s the trump card.

I on the other hand see children as an obstacle. There are so many things I want to do, places I want to see that having a child would ruin. Crazy thing is that I love children. I cannot put into words how I feel about them. I miss my niece and nephew. ;_;

Yes, my ex told me that because I didn’t want to have children with her. I had no desire to want to do that and she thought i was self centered. =\

What isn’t selfish, anyway? Of course it’s selfish to not have kids or to have kids or to spend your entire life chasing butterflies or traveling or working with the homeless only or never buying a house or buying 3 race cars…your parents will always find something to bitch about…if you don’t want kids, don’t have any. ever. Parents are always under the impression that their children owe them grandchilren as if that’s something you owe them for them having raised you…bullshit…it’d be nice, sure, but my kids will never hear it from me…that whole whining ‘I’m getting old, when are you gonna give me grandchildren’ will come out of the mother in law and not me.

@HTDC What the heck? I said I didn’t feel like talking about it. I hadn’t had my coffee yet and was about to go out.

@casheroo Well now that you’re back, what reasons do you have that would make someone selfish for choosing to not bring a child into this world? I just can’t understand how any reason at all can be justified for calling someone selfish. Which is why I am intrigued as to what yours are.

Yes, many times. I have heard or seen many childless-by-choice people say that this accusation is often leveled at them. It’s not unusual.

The presumption seems to be that if you choose not to have children, it’s because you prefer to think only of yourself; ergo, selfish.

I am a mother, but I don’t understand this thinking. I started my family late because I wasn’t ready to turn my life over to the care of someone else. When I was, I did. The difference was that with my husband I found that I wanted to make an “us” more than anything else. No lesser reason would have sufficed.

In reality I think it is simply a special case of the larger principle, namely, that people—especially parents!—tend to feel threatened when you do something different from what they do or did, as if your different choice constituted a rejection of and, heaven help us, a criticism of, what they themselves did. (“Are you saying you think I was a bad parent??!!”) This also comes up in matters of religion, diet, lifestyle, you name it. The subject of children is just more emotional than most. Also many have the mindset of “giving ME grandchildren.” You are withholding something to which they feel entitled.

Don’t bend to the pressure. You don’t have any such obligation. And yes, I would tell my sons the same thing. I will never bug them about having children.

I think the word selfish has become stigmatized as completely negative. A certain degree of “selfishness” is necessary and healthy IMO. What does the word mean in its purest form? Being concerned about self, about what you want and need like @Fyrius‘s chocolate ice cream. Think about the antonym – selfless. no regard for yourself.

Somehow, most of us have come to think that if we take care of ourselves (being selfish) we’re automatically either disregarding or running roughshod over the welfare of others. At the extreme, yes. But doesn’t an emotionally healthy person do a balancing act between their needs and everyone else’s? Is a completely selfless mother a better parent than one who considers her own along with her children’s?

@MagsRags Great points. I was thinking something similar.

My mother told me I was selfish not to want to have children, she asked me if I hadn’t stopped to think she wanted grandchildren as if it’s my job to pop out kids for other people. Other women over the years have tried to put off on me that I must be emotionally stunted or selfish for not having children but I don’t bother with them much. What matters to me is that those closest to me understand and try to respect my reasons. I see there are plenty of others taking up my slack, no worries.

@HTDC Don’t think she knows any.

@Dibley Ha! I had a sneaky suspicion that might be the case.

@hungryhungryhortence
“What matters to me is that those closest to me understand and try to respect my reasons.”
Reasons.
Come to think of it, what a sad state of affairs that you even need to give reasons not to have children. It’s much like the classical fallacy of shifting the burden of proof that so many small-minded conformist box thinkers do.
You never need a reason not to do something. Let them bring on their reasons why you should have children, and then see if those convince you.