Are any of you believers of the Paleo diet?

Pretty sure this guy has talked about it before.

I sent him the question @FutureMemory.

I have been ‘sort of’ on the Paleo diet for a couple of months. I am not rigidly following it though. I have cut out grains, cereals and the like. Buying grass fed meat where I can. Eating nuts, and fruit and especially berries and that type of fruit. I do have sweet potato or potato occasionally but mostly other vegetables. And no processed food.

I am absolutely a Paleo novice though. Hence sending the question to that other person.

It makes great sense to me. That’s what we evolved to survive on. In reality, hunter gatherers often went without important nutrients, and there’s no need to do that—no benefit to be had from it.

I just read about it. I think the theory is all wrong. If we were so healthy, big and strong back when we only ate what we gathered then more than likely it was because we didn’t live so long. True being overweight can lead to our death, but so does stress, and illness and a hundred other things. I don’t think this is the magic bullet. One of the things it says we shouldn’t be drinking is milk. Well there were many people back in the day that didn’t drink milk and what did you get? A bunch of bent over and fragile boned people. People in general aren’t so perfect in choosing all the right nutrients for the day. I will say, I agree, that we do eat too many processed foods, and grains. But when I lived in Japan they ate a lot of noodles and rice and I rarely saw an overweight individual. Of course they also ate a lot of fish, fruits and vegetables and very little red meats, and they don’t gorge on food like we do here. They also don’t eat a lot of desserts and when they do, they are not loaded with the tons of fat and sugar we put in it. Their meals are pretty evenly based. I remember having dunkin donuts there and finding it was smaller and probably had half the sugar in it. It was also very expensive, (like there red meats), so you only purchased a little of it. It just all comes down to making smart food choices and exercise.

@Pandora I stopped reading you attempt at discrediting evolutionary eating during the first sentence because it laid out flawed premises to begin with; hunting and gathering peoples actually live and have lived a really long time. Like at least as long as industrial, middle class first worlders do now. By contrast, life expectancy dropped dramatically when agriculture was adopted in any area, and we see skeletal remains show decreased bone mass, rotting teeth, and signs of endemic diseases like rheumatoid arthritis and osteoporosis (particularly in women, who are harder hit by civilized, agricultural diets).

To the OP: the diet is, as others have said, evolutionarily smart. It makes even more sense if you work in organic foods, since they have even higher nutrient density. I prefer a number of organic foods grown in polycrops (something most organic farms don’t do), especially wild foods. The main thing, though, is that grains and legumes are basically lacking much in terms of nutrition, and contain things that inhibit our absorption of nutrients, irritate gut linings, etc. As for the dairy thing, many paleo advocates recommend dairy, particularly raw and cultured dairy, at least for those that digest it well. Again, source is key, and get it from grass fed cows or other animals (I grew up on goat milk). Rob Wolfe recommends just high fat dairy, like cream and butter. I, personally, don’t have too much cheese, just because that’s what my digestion likes.

And if you’re going to eat grains and legumes, it’s best to treat them traditionally. For instance, when I soak dry beans, I throw in a teaspoon or so of baking soda. This is similar to the process of nixtamalizing corn, in which flint corn is soaked in a lye solution to soften it and making the few nutrients present actually accessible, as well as the whole thing being more digestible. Phytic acid is present in both grains and legumes, and these processes mostly remove that.

The main point is to make most of your diet of things that are higher in nutrients and lower in “anti-nutrients”.

@incendiary_dan are there any books you would specifically recommend? I have read Rob Wolfe’s book.

@redfeather I did Paleo for a few months last year and plan on doing it again in the future. I tend to cycle my diet, but Paleo felt good. I highly recommend at least trying it.

I am skeptical of all diets with names as their primary goal seems to be selling books doomed to collect dust at Goodwill next to The Purpose Driven Life and Dr. Phil’s esteemed works.

Yes and I feel much better eating this way.

There are so many free recipes and ideas online. I have to do mostly Paleo for my family due to many food intolerances. Trying new paleo recipes is the only thing that keeps us sane.

One of my fav suggestions from @incendiary_dan was for sunflower butter.
My son loves it!

@incendiary_dan hey! I missed ya, buddy! Glad to see you approve! We talk a lot about agriculture and hunting and gathering in my classes and i was researching Paleo and it just makes sense.

@Pandora if you look at a map of where lactose intolerant people are, you’ll notice it’s pretty much the whole world besides north America and some in western Europe. Chances are if you’re not lactose intolerant, you came from people who herded cattle and drank milk because those people built up a tolerance to it. There are tons of cultures today who don’t drink milk, like people in the Andes. To them, drinking milk is like what drinking baby formula would be.

@SpatzieLover That stuff is REALLY addicting. Like, “you just mentioned it so now I need to buy some” addicting. Also, it reminds me to plant sunflowers.

We’re are also planting lots of sunflowers @incendiary_dan. Eating this way encourages our entire family to want to plant a larger garden each year.

We just went out and bought a ton of seeds. My son selected a variety of sunflowers as well as stuff he’s never tried eating before. He can’t wait for things to grow so he can try them :)

@redfeather While I disagree with her assessment of the Paleo diet, I think @Pandora‘s point about milk is that—regardless of its historical explanation—societies without much dairy in their traditional diet tend to suffer from higher levels of osteoporosis and the like. This is empirically true, in part because dairy is the most common source of calcium for humans. Many vegans tend to have similar problems if they are not careful in planning their diet.

Dairy is not the only source of calcium, however, and some people include dairy in their Paleo diet (as @incendiary_dan mentioned). As such, it seems to me that @Pandora‘s argument can be parried by noting that there is a difference between “eating exactly as our ancestors did” and “eating in a way for which evolution has designed us.” The former would just be a silly insistence on doing something because it’s the way it used to be done. The latter, which is what the Paleo diet actually endorses, allows us to use our scientific knowledge to correct our current habits.

@SavoirFaire It’s particularly important to understand that it’s not dogmatic traditionalism because not everyone around the world ate the same exact way. It depends so much on culture and habitat. Some paleo folks are constantly saying that you should get most of your calories from meat, some say mostly from plants. I say screw it, eat when your climate provides. Eating paleo has a lot more to do with noticing the patterns that we developed to stay healthy, like lots of bone broths and the right animal fats. People in my area used to subsist on a variable mix of meat and vegetables, which just about evened out. As long as it’s nutrient dense and you can digest it, it’s good.

@redfeather “Chances are if you’re not lactose intolerant, you came from people who herded cattle and drank milk because those people built up a tolerance to it.”

Pastoral groups certainly had environmental pressures that favored lactose tolerance, but it would be incorrect to think that the ability to digest dairy is a matter of increasing tolerance. It’s milk, not iocane powder.

We belong to an epic class of animals that produces milk to feed their young. Humans aren’t born lactose intolerant. It would be a pretty epic fail if the species as a whole was not able to properly digest the dairy it’s mother suckled it on. What happens is there is a gene that if present simply maintains the conditions of lactose tolerance past the age of nursing. People without the gene become intolerant as the conditions that allow for dairy digestion are no longer present as they get older. So there is no issue of building up tolerance, it’s a bit of genetic code. You’ve either got it or you don’t.

Article!

Sorry if this is what you meant all along, I just wasn’t sure if you meant building tolerance as in increasing the propagation of lactose tolerant people via natural selection or that increasing tolerance in people through exposure to milk itself was the basis of lactose tolerant populations (which might be down right Lamarckian depending on what you think is going on genetically).

@fundevogel humans weren’t made to digest animal’s milk. We developed the ability over time. Think about why we don’t drink human breast milk our whole life.

@redfeather Actually lactose, the sugar that intolerate people can’t digest, is more plentiful in human milk than cow milk. So they’d actually have more trouble if they stuck with human milk.

Siiiiiigh.

I’m just saying there’s a reason we only drink it as babies. That’s it. And I’m not anti milk. I drank some today. Just looking into the Paleo diet and what it ensues.

There’s a reason lactose intolerant people only drink it as babies. It only has to do with cows (or goats) in that cultures that had animal milk available to them lived in an environment that favored lactose tolerance where as that trait wasn’t propagated in areas without dairy products as there was no environmental pressure for it to happen.

Enjoy your milk, or don’t. It’s your call.

Ok? And that’s basically what I was saying earlier.

Then I misunderstood.

My problem with most formal diet regimens is that I’m a picky eater, and I don’t like half the foods that the diet requires. Yet, I like the idea of this diet based on what we evolved to eat upheld with current scientific thinking. Of course, I’m also a bit of a skeptic, like @fundevogel, in thinking that most such diets as this exist only to sell books. Anyway, this diet looks interesting (I’ll miss milk, though. I love milk), but before I plunk down 25 buckazoids, is there a list of what specific foods are on the diet? I searched the FAQ on the site, but didn’t come across such an actual list of specific foods, just general categories like legumes, fruits and veggies, lean meats, etc., which seems rather common sense to me regardless of any diet book.

@HungryGuy, as @incendiary_dan said people do continue to eat dairy. I have milk in my tea still and I usually have some greek yoghurt with fruit once a day. I like the diet because I am basically just eating healthy, nutritious foods. Meat (lean) vegetables and fruit. I just avoid things like grains, legumes and processed food. I eat lots of broccoli, green beans, brussels sprouts, pumpkin and other high fibre veggies though. It just seems like such a sensible, healthy diet. I feel well too. As some other people have said, I actually do feel healthier and well.

I am more conscious of where my food has come from and what it was fed on. So we go out of our way now to find grass fed meats. I think it was the Wolf book that @incendiary_dan mentioned that said most people who start eating this way tend to follow it about 80 per cent of the time. If I feel like eating something that doesn’t fit, I do. I just make sure that 80–90 per cent of the time, I follow this regime.

Oh and there are lots of websites that talk about the diet and provide Paleo recipes etc. Just put Paleo in Google or Paleo recipes.

@Bellatrix – I haven’t read that book, sounds as if I should. And I like the idea of following the diet about 80% of the time, that allows for the occasional ice cream or piece of bread or pastry crust on the veggie pie, without feeling guilty. (and yes I must confess the can of Coke once or twice a week – hanging my head in shame – I just love the damned stuff!)

@rooeytoo why couldn’t Paleolithic man have invented Coke!?! I love it too! :(

@HungryGuy the site I looked at was nerdfitness or something. I just googled Paleo diet and t was the 3rd or 4th site

@HungryGuy I’ve never purchased a Paleo book whatsoever. There is a ton of free stuff on the web. It’s also basically the diet of any one following the autism diet. We also have a bit of organic dairy.

As @Bellatrix stated we are mindful of where are food comes from.

My favorite sources of calcium: dark green leaves (particularly things like dandelions), and bone broth (spiced, preferably).

@incendiary_dan How do you prepare your greens? I’ve got a serious bunch of beet greens and I want to use them, but I’m not sure how.

@fundevogel Beet greens are absolutely delicious. One of my favorite type of greens. I like to steam the greens. I separately slice up then boil the beets till tender, drain them, then let them soak in a mixture of vinegar, spices and a touch of honey. You can then mix the beets and greens, so you don’t need any vinegar on the greens.

@ETpro That sounds delicious, I’m definitely going to try it.

@fundevogel Let me know what you think. I will either use a red wine vinegar and a touch of honey or even better (unfortunately pricier) is Marukan Seasoned Gourmet Rice Vinegar. It’s sweet enough the’s no need for any honey. It’s Japanese vinegar commonly found in sushi places. But most well stocked markets now carry it.

I usually eat greens raw (right off the ground, in some cases) or stir fried lightly. In the latter case, that usually means a bit of oil (olive or coconut, usually) and some flavorings like fish sauce, vinegar, honey, and garlic. Not too dissimilar from what @ETpro said, which isn’t surprising since it sounds like we’re coming from some similar culinary traditions.

Just remember that a lot of greens need to be added right at the end, so they don’t overcook. I’ve found this particularly true with greens like mustard.

Until there is really solid evidence in favor of any particular diet, I am going to follow this guy’s approach. As to the importance of cooking, see this

No, unless there are modern large-scale studies showing the benefit. Just because something was widespread in the past doesn’t make it right. A good example is bloodletting.

@mattbrowne Not quite. We did not evolve to prosper by bloodletting. We did evolve to survive well on the paelo dies.

@ETpro It’s also comparing the broad categories of habits practiced for over 99% of our evolutionary history to a specific activity practiced relatively rarely (like less than .01% of our history). Plus, there are numerous large scale cross cultural comparisons, in addition to the fossil evidence I mentioned.

But shhh, don’t mention those. Gets in the way of selective sampling to excuse techno-utopian progressivism. Some people love that shit.

@ETpro – I see your point, but we also evolved by fight and flight behavior that ruined our joints in older age. Evolution makes sure that we live long enough for our kids to have sex and become self-reliant. So the paleo diet might be a good idea for humans to live 30 years, but necessarily 80 years. Many modern diets are superior, but not all.

@ETpro I did up the greens like you said and I really like it. I’m definitely going to have to do it next time I make beets.

@fundevogel I love it when we can find some beets with the beet greens attached.

Really? They always sell them like that around here.