Social Question

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Why is push button start such a great thing for vehicles?

Asked by SQUEEKY2 (19396points) November 26th, 2016

Are we to lazy or just stupid to turn a key instead?
I just don’t get it.

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109 Answers

JLeslie's avatar

The only real advantage is not having to dig your keys out of your purse. I have a push button car and it is convenient in a way, but too easy to screw it up or kill yourself.

My MIL dropped off her husband at home and he had the key. The car kept running. She drove to her next destination, and once there realized she didn’t have her key! I guess she would have been able to turn off the car, but she would not having been able to start it again. Since she realized, she turned back around and drove all the way back home. She was pissed at her husband. Lol. Which is ridiculous. She was pissed for hours.

My car beeps if the person with the key leaves the car. I’ve done this probably 5 times. Finally, this last time my husband said whoever is driving carries the car keys from now on.

A friend of mine list two friends, a couple. The story goes they have a push button car, didn’t realize the car was still on when they parked in their garage and went inside for the evening. Eventually the house filled with carbon monoxide, and they were both found dead. If the car had required a key in the ignition that probably would not have happened.

Love_my_doggie's avatar

My beloved lil’ Prius has a push-button ignition. I think the device is a minor inconvenience. It’s easy to leave the keys inside the car, or to forget to turn-off the engine. Every time I park, I need to remind myself, “Engine must be off; keys must be in hand.” I never had these worries with a conventional ignition.

chyna's avatar

I never take my key fob out of my purse, so I don’t forget it. I can see leaving the engine on, but I have never done that. Yet.

canidmajor's avatar

I find that it is no more inconvenient than a regular key, and sometimes a lot more convenient. I keep the sensor fob in my pocket, it’s easier because of that to keep track. I never drop it in the snow or puddles, it beeps obnoxiously if the car is on when I walk a few steps away. Really, it was just getting used to it, which took a short time.

JLeslie's avatar

I have a truck that has keyless entry (a combo code) and I like that much much better.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Might as well ask why do we have remote controls? Are we too lazy or stupid to turn a dial?

jca's avatar

Times I’ve had a rental car with a push button start, I loved it. I left it in my handbag and it was great not having to search around for it. When I’m late and frantic, that’s an additional stress that it was nice not to have to deal with.

@Darth_Algar makes a good point. No hostility pointed toward remotes. Lots of things in life are with the goal to make things more convenient.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

It’s better than alligator clips and a screw driver to start a car.

CWOTUS's avatar

I have only driven a keyless vehicle once, and that was a friend’s car when she had problems seeing in the glare one night on an unfamiliar road (and later had too much to drink to drive safely). So I don’t have a lot of experience here.

However … I’m assuming that the car can still be driven with a key, can’t it? So in that case I’d start doing the things that I have always done to give myself more options. Right now I have a remote fob with keyless door locking and unlocking (like most everyone with a car built in the last 20 years, more or less). I generally have triple redundancy: I carry the remote fob in one place, but separate from the key that I use to operate the vehicle, and then I carry a separate “just in case” key in my wallet.

If I had keyless operation, then that would just give me one more kind of redundancy to manage “for my convenience”, rather than “have to manage just to get by”. If it doesn’t make my life easier, then I’m not having it. And if I can’t think of how to use “more options” to make my life easier, then maybe I’m too stupid to still be driving.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Another question what happens if your on a road trip, and in a strange city and the battery goes dead in the wonderful sensor fob, what happens then?
And it’s more convenient than a key?Because a key uses to much energy to find and turn?
Is this sensor fob water proof? if my keys go through the wash no big deal, can we say the same for the fob?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 are you the leading Luddite tonight? ? ?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

No I am not worried about losing anything to this technology just wondering why we are all forced to use it if we don’t want it.
Like this vehicle I test drove the other day, I wanted one with out all these gadgets on them and was told they all come with em ,so I said fine I won’t buy it then and the sales man just shrugged and said that was my choice.
And things like this push button start, fine if you want what about those of us that don’t, shouldn’t we have the option of not having to have it as well?

CWOTUS's avatar

It didn’t take a lot of research to find that you don’t “have to” use the keyless features, and there are hidden key slots in the door handle and at the dashboard for an ignition key (hidden inside the fob). So it’s a convenience only – which most consumers appear to enjoy once they understand and get used to it (because for one thing it is apparently impossible to lock the fob inside the vehicle or the trunk) – but you’re not required to use it. As to the salesman’s shrug to your antipathy, to him it’s as if you had said to him “Why pay extra for safety glass? I’ve never broken the glass in a vehicle before now, and I’m not planning to in the future, so why should I pay extra for ‘safety glass’?”

zenvelo's avatar

it is a lot better than the damn extras hanging from the key chain and jangling on a rough road, or hitting One’s leg. Why have a keyed ignition? What advantage does it give?

Darth_Algar's avatar

@SQUEEKY2

You’re not forced to use it if you don’t want to.

ucme's avatar

So we know how to push your buttons @SQUEEKY2…gentlemen, start your engines!!

canidmajor's avatar

And again, @SQUEEKY2, here you are strenuously objecting to technology you are by no means forced to employ, but you seem to want to be snide to those that do.

Quel surprise.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

To compare this wonderful technology to safety glass doesn’t even begin to make sense @CWOTUS .
And the sales man never pointed out a key part of the fob, which would make sense if the battery died in the thing at a time or place you couldn’t just replace it.
And I guess that answers my question what if you accidentally washed it.
I still don’t want it and there are a couple of makes that you can still get with out it so I guess I will focus more on those models and leave this wonderful technology filled ones to those that do.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And @Darth_Algar you are right but shouldn’t I have the option of not having it come with the vehicle at all?

jca's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: I’m sure when remotes first came out for car doors, there were people that didn’t like the idea. Now there’s not one car (I believe) that doesn’t have a remote when they hand you the keys. You have the option of not using the remote but it’s there for convenience should you decide that you do.

As @canidmajor points out, “And again, @SQUEEKY2, here you are strenuously objecting to technology you are by no means forced to employ, but you seem to want to be snide to those that do.”

RIght now you do have the option of not utilizing this technology. We get that you don’t like it, along with driverless cars and cell phones.

You seem to be on a bit of a rant about it and it’s not clear why.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Because they are not giving me the option of simply not having it installed on the vehicle,I don’t want to pay for all this gadget crap that in no doubt will crap out and cost a fortune to repair long before anything mechanical will.
And you guys are the ones saying I am ranting about those who do like these gadgets, I am strenuously objecting to the fact I don’t seem to have to the option of getting a damn vehicle without this technology installed even if I choose not to use it.
That is what I am ranting about @jca if you love this technology then pay for it use it enjoy it, but shouldn’t those of us that DO NOT want it have to option of not having it come on the vehicle already that we have to pay for and won’t ever freakin use?
You lose this wonder fob it will cost hundreds to replace ,I want an extra key I go to the hardware store and have a spare made for $2, and I have no problem inserting a key and turning it,I know it’s a lot more work than pushing a button but I will stick with it.

jca's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: I have a Honda CRV with a regular key, and the days of the “two dollar key from a hardware store” are and have been long gone. To get the key duplicated now means at the dealer, probably $80 to $100 because it has a chip in it, and whatever else.

Now we have the remote with the fancy key (the key I talked about above that is $100 to replace) and we’re paying for it and we’re used to having it, and we don’t have to use the remote if we don’t want to.

When I bought my car last year and the last couple of new cars I got, there are different option levels you can get. The lower one (manual doors and windows, etc.) to the top (built in GPS, better speakers, etc.). I’m sure you can get whatever car you want without a push button ignition. Ask nicely and I’m sure you can.

Like someone said above, too, the car with push button ignition has a key inside the fob.

canidmajor's avatar

@jca: My key for my 2004 Honda would have cost a fortune to replace, good point there. And my friend bought a 2016 Honda that is keyed, no push button. Options are there, @SQUEEKY2, if you don’t ask, you won’t find.
A little advice: 1] buy a keyed car, don’t get a smart phone, don’t have kids. 2] Quit vilifying those that don’t do exactly as you would do. Embrace the diversity of thought that’s around you.

jca's avatar

My CRV is keyed. I need to get to the dealer to get a spare. The car came with a spare but I’d like another spare). I’m just putting it off because I don’t feel like spending the $100.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@canidmajor I have been asking about plain jane models, but most of the sales men say they all come fully loaded.
And don’t want to be bothered with plain jane models.
@jca I know what you mean Mrs Squeekys suv requires one of those chip keys, but my pickup and my semi a 2014 westernstar does not.
And @canidmajor Mrs Squeeky and I have been vilified for years for not having children, not on Fluther but in real life by people around us.
I get mad at smart phone users when they can’t seem to look up from their damn gadget for just a few seconds to see things around them, like the other day at a coffee shop I pointed out to mrs squeaky a lady waiting in line at the counter was texting a lady sitting behind us, and I still see drivers texting and driving every day.
I get sneered at all the time because I don’t want a smart phone, and people are shocked when they find out you can still buy a new flip phone.
I am just starting my look for a new pickup but it will take time to find one that meets my needs and wants, I bought my truck new in 1998 and ordered it plain jane and have had little trouble with it I doubt I could say that for a fully loaded gadget one.
My experience over the years of driving transports that electrical components fail long before anything mechanical does.

jca's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: Smart phones, push button start, same thing. Like any technology, many will like it, some will not and be resistant.

canidmajor's avatar

Yes, @SQUEEKY2, most of us get disagreed with IRL for decisions we make that others don’t. You don’t need to restate here again why you object to these things, thanks but we know. You tell us frequently. Hooray for choices. See, I get to say that your repeated bitching about these things annoys me! Choices. You gots ‘em. Me, too. Appreciate that.

JLeslie's avatar

Some cars there is no option but to get an “electronic” key or it has a button to turn it on and I’m with @SQUEEKY2 that it’s nice to have the manual cheaper option if you want it. That goes for upgrades in cars also, especially Japanese cars you get an upgrade package, and there might be things in the package you don’t need or want, but if you want the one thing in there you pay for it all. Not to mention that if I think something is unsafe then it’s really questionable if I want it in my car. Like I said my MIL drive away without her key and I know a couple who died.

At the same time I don’t understand the OP’s anger towards people who want to use technology like smartphones, etc.

I think my Ford truck has a regular key? It’s a few years old though. I can open it with the key fob from a distance, but I think I can just use the key too. I’m not sure. Maybe Ford still has cars without the remote technology? I had a Chevy truck years ago that also had manual windows, very basic, even when almost everything has the remote unlock, maybe that still exists. It might not.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That’s just it when it comes to purchasing a new vehicle the choices are becoming less and less,you take all the gadgets that come with it or don’t buy it, they are giving the people that don’t want this wonderful technology less and less choices.
To those that love this crap GREAT, but what about those of us that don’t want it?
I don’t have anger against people that love this technology but for those of us that don’t shouldn’t we have the option of not buying into it if we plan not to ever use it?
Why do I have to pay for an autonomous feature if I don’t want, same with wi-fi blue tooth and texting options or for that matter cruise control if I don’t want them why do I have to buy them ?
when they come standard on the vehicle,to those that want them fill your boots but why if I want that model I have to buy them?
why can’t I get that model minus the gadgets?

jca's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: Despite the fact that you say here you don’t feel anger toward those who love this technology, on this and other threads you seem to be angry about and look down upon those who do.

JLeslie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Well, calling it crap and practically boasting about how wonderful life is without children to the point that it’s almost as bad as the people who want to know why the hell you don’t have children, and some other things I guess puts people off. Maybe everyone needs to be nicer.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@jca YES I get angry at people that can’t seem to use their smart phones without any common sense.
and yes I look down at those idiots because they seem to think while they have their noses buried in their phones the world has to look out for them.
@JLeslie to me these gadgets that come with new vehicles are crap just something to break down later on.
I have no anger at people that love these preloaded gadgets I would just like the option of getting the same model minus all the gadgets..
And we will leave the kid thing alone.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@SQUEEKY2

Shouldn’t you have the option of good, old fashioned crank windows? Shouldn’t you have the option of having an 8-track instead of a CD player, installed? Shouldn’t you have the option of buying the car with no back seats? Shouldn’t you have the option of not having power steering?

The manufacture decides to offer whatever options it does based on whatever factors it deems relevant. Could be market concerns. Could be easy of standardized manufacturing. Whatever. They are not obligated to offer any option just to appeal to one rare person’s aversion to different tech.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Darth_Algar I guess you have a point in 1998 I ordered my new pick up exactly the way I wanted crank windows, minus power door locks ,rubber floor, no AC, standard transmission, yes it has power steering and full gauge package, but nothing else and in 18 years very little has gone wrong with it.
My beef why in 1998 I could get it the way I want but not in 2017?
I have never had a crank window screw up, can’t say the same for power ones.
I keep my vehicles a very long time I seriously doubt a 2017 model will last as long as my 1998 has,.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@SQUEEKY2

Because in 1998 there was still enough of a market for crank windows. There isn’t now. Shit changes over the course of a couple of decades.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I guess in the end I will have to shop for the one that offers the least amount of these wonder gadgets and see if I can put up with those, and go from there.

jca's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: There you go. That’s how we make purchasing decisions. What most meets our needs at a price we can afford.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

You can still go into a dealer and order your “no frills” from the factory. Or, ask the dealer to check the region for your choice of vehicle.

You don’t have to buy what is on “the floor”.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Here’s this year’s list of stripper polls from Car and Driver.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s OK. However, they’ve overlooked one safety feature, at least on the Passat. You can turn the car off without putting it into park.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@Dutchess_III I think you turn off most cars with an automatic transmission; without putting it in Park but you can’t remove the key and lock the steering column.

Zaku's avatar

Seems to me that start buttons are yet another in a long list of electronic “features” that are used because:

1) They hope they will make a car seem newer and more modern.
2) They hope that new electronic ways of doing things will encourage people to buy new cars sooner.
3) They increase dependency on the company that made the car, since when the part breaks, it is more likely to need an (often quite expensive) special part made by the original manufacturer, and that is difficult or impossible to repair by a general mechanic.
4) They also increase dependency on the electronic design of the car, and get us used to electronic and computerized control of our cars, rather than them being mechanical things which we own and can control and repair mechanically. Since newer cars are more and more dependent on computers and electronics, we tend to question less and less their use for everything, and object less to the slowly increasing erosion of our control and authority of those things, and our memories of being able to have general mechanics repair them, or to not need an ongoing relationship with the original manufacturer.

The features and design decisions are beneficial to the manufacturer but not so much to the users.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I couldn’t agree more @Zaku , but be careful with that kind of answer people here will think you hate technology.
I will find a truck that offers the least amount of these wonder gadgets and see if I can live with those.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@SQUEEKY2

Do you seriously not get why folks here have the impression of you that they have? It isn’t merely that you have a personal preference towards older tech, it’s that you’re actively hostile towards new tech and belligerent towards people who don’t share your preference.

Zaku's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I like technology that does good things that I like. I’m a software engineer after all. But I’m also thoughtful and aware of the negative sides of technology, and I often I see that corporations and governments are designing technology and uses for it that look quite negative to me, or even dangerous. And there seems to be a strong bias in media and public conversations that new technologies are assumed good and/or inevitable until proven otherwise, just because they are new and/or something positive can be said about them.

chyna's avatar

This conversation got me to look at my Honda Accord with a push button starter. I do not see a place where I can also use a key to start it. This is concerning.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@chyna Most push button start cars also have a “pocket” you can put the key fob into. My car has a little holder inside the armrest /console, to be used if your fob battery dies.

chyna's avatar

I’ll have to research.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Found that answer on the DVD that came with my car, @chyna

Dutchess_III's avatar

What is the point of the pocket on the arm rest, when it’s much more secure to carry it in your pants pocket? Or your purse, if you carry one. Wouldn’t leaving in the arm rest be the same as leaving your keys in the ignition?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

The pocket is for when the battery in the fob goes dead. The fob uses a Cr2032 battery called a coin battery because it is about the size of a quarter.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Darth_Algar I am actively hostile towards people that use these wonder gadgets to a point where they can’t see the world around them, like the teenager that walked out into the middle of the I-5 because she was playing pokeymon, or the older fellow that walked in the path of a semi because he was texting.
And as @Zaku pointed out things such as this push button start that people love is something that the dealership will have to fix when it fails, the back yard mechanic can’t, just something to bleed the clueless consumer more and people refuse to see this.
My semi is just over 3 years old now and I keep seeing this wonder components fail costing tons of down time, this electronic technology that everyone can’t seem to live without these days will fail long before anything mechanical will costing them $$money$$ for this stuff.
I am not against technology, I just want it to last and not cost a fortune when it fails.
P.S I thank @Tropical_Willie for pointing out that list that shows makes that can be bought without this stuff, and will bet dollars to doughnuts that, that vehicle will be on the road a lot longer with fewer breakdowns than anything that has all this wonderful preloaded technology will.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@SQUEEKY2

As has been pointed out to you (many times already): people have been distracted by shit for as long as there have been people. This isn’t something new, and certainly exclusive to “wonder gadgets”. Some folks read their Facebook feed while driving. Some folks read newspapers while driving. For some reason we don’t see you railing against newspapers.

Even still, your complaint about push-button ignition wasn’t that it distracted people. Your complaint was that people are “lazy and stupid” for using them (because turning a key is such a mentally-focused process, right?). Also, that you can’t get a particular model of car without it.

We get it. You don’t like all these new-fangled gadgets. That’s cool. Don’t use them. Nobody really cares if you don’t, but your belligerency towards those who don’t share your aversion grows tiresome. You be you. That’s cool. Be you. Just don’t be an ass about it.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Darth_Algar Yes, we’ve always gotten distracted, but never before have other people and the world around them been moving at such high speeds constantly. Our brains aren’t really programmed for it.

I don’t think @SQUEEKY2 doesn’t like new gadgets. I think he hates how people lose their fucking minds over them to the point they can’t think for themselves, and they kill themselves or someone else. I’m with them on that.

Yesterday I was driving down the street, on lunch break. Some old lady was driving about 15 mph in a 30. Her car was kind of wandering side to side too. I was getting frustrated thinking, “It’s time for someone to take your keys, old lady!”
Then a bit later I got a side view of the “old lady.” It was a young gal, early 20’s, on her damn cell phone.
It’s ridiculous.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah and I don’t see governments making laws against reading the news paper and driving , but I do see them making laws against driving and using the damn cell phone.
I have seen component after component fail on trucks myself and coworkers drive costing tons of down time.
I get chocked when manufactures convince the public they can’t live without it and the public buys into it every time, and they give the people that don’t want it very little choice.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Go out and buy yourself 1972 Ford F100 with a 300 cubic inch carburetor engine and get 12 MPG. I owned one I was third owner, best guess was 300,000 miles. It had AM radio, standard transmission, roll-up windows and the gas tank was between the seat back and the back cab wall.

We get it = = = > you don’t like technology.

We know you are not going to follow the vehicle manufacturers sales plan. You want to be different so buy the vehicle with 1 in a hundred 5th power with options that buyers don’t want. That means you have a 1 in 10 billion chance of finding our vehicle on a dealers lot.

Order the vehicle from scratch at the dealer

SQUEEKY2's avatar

If a dealer gives me the choice of ordering a plain jane I probably will, it’s not that I dislike technology I dislike the fact for the most part it is most un reliable and costs a fortune to fix and maintain.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III

Go back and read his initial post here. He wasn’t complaining that push-button ignition makes people distracted or that anyone’s getting killed because of it.

He’s made it abundantly clear over numerous threads by now – in @SQUEEKY2‘s world the old ways is the best ways and if you don’t agree then you’re lazy, stupid and enslaved by technology (regardless of whether or not you actually use whatever tech he happens to be ranting about at the time).

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh @Darth_Algar I know you love a good fight I am not against technology I am against technology that has no real advantage to the consumer and that it is unreliable and costs a fortune to repair and keep running.
Show me something in this wonderful tech world that has a real advantage to the user and lasts with out costing a small fortune to fix, repair, replace to the consumer and I will jump on your tech wagon, especially when it comes to new vehicles,but I bet the only thing you will come up with is a snarky remark that I am just an ass of a caveman.

jca's avatar

This has the makings of a new question! Pondering it now.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 ”... and I will jump on your tech wagon…”

Thus proving my point.

CWOTUS's avatar

All technology – every single bit of it – is “unreliable and costs a fortune to repair and keep running”, until it gets to the point where it is no longer described with words such as “tech” and “technology”.

I have here a vision of a man in a loincloth scoffing at some similarly clad dude making the final touches to his brand new wheel, saying in the language of the times the exact same things that @SQUEEKY2 is saying here.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Thanks @Darth_Algar I knew you couldn’t do it, but you could have at least tried.
I have stood back for years and watched friends and other dive into this tech world and bitch and bitch when it failed and cost them a lot of money to repair or replace.
I mean it took a very long time before I even got a tablet, and I admit it is a handy little item, but I waited until they got the cost of them way down so it didn’t matter if it failed ,and will again admit it’s going on 2 years now and still strong.
And from experience my transport truck is full of this wonderful technology and see components on it fail and fail costing a fortune.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@CWOTUS that is the best answer I have seen, YOU are totally correct, so in turn I will wait until it is proven and doesn’t cost a fortune before I add it to my life.
I did with computers and tablets, I will do it with the wonder gadgets that come on most vehicles today as well I refuse to be the lab rat and fund the development of these wonder gadgets that the manufacturers say we the public can’t live without.

CWOTUS's avatar

Many people who started to jump on the personal computer bandwagon in the early-to-mid 80s were described as being on the “leading edge” of that particular technology revolution. In fact, that became a brand name for a particular IBM-compatible PC clone (if anyone even still recalls that particular phrase): I very nearly bought a Leading Edge computer as my first.

Satirists of those folks described them, even if not quite literally, as being on “the bleeding edge”.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 Do you drive a Peterbilt or Kenworth ?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Our company has run Kenworth for years, but that last few years have tried a few other makes, mine is a Westernstar and even though we have had a lot of problems with computer components failing on the star it’s nothing compared to the components that have been failing on the new Kenworths.
And the westernstar is a more comfortable to drive for a big guy like me.

jca's avatar

I’m sure when automatic transmissions first came out, many said that standard shift was better, and those who chose automatic transmission are lazy and being fooled by this push to accept it. Look now, it’s “standard” for most cars to be automatic. In order to get the majority of cars in standard shift, you’d have to special order them. I’ve replaced clutches but have never yet had to replace an automatic transmission.

People survive changes, they deal with it, they move on, they remember the old and use the old but eventually embrace the new.

JLeslie's avatar

@jca In America. Automatic is basically the “standard” in America for probably over 40 years now. It’s only the last 5–10 years Europe and Asia started using more automatic cars. Parts of South America also are heavily manual transmission. I think Europe is still something like 80% manual today (you’d have to check me). I’d bet rental agency still have very few automatic cars in countries like Germany and the U.K., you have to be sure to specify if you’re American and don’t know how to drive one. I vaguely remember you do drive stick though.

Now, some cars don’t come manual anymore, so the population is being forced to change. Which kind of goes back to the original question.

jca's avatar

@JLeslie: Yes, that’s my point! Things that are “newfangled” and may not be embraced by everyone at first will eventually become the norm. Yes, I do drive standard shift and when I learned how to drive over 30 years ago, you could get standard shift cars off of most new car lots. Now, not so common for most cars in the US. I’m guessing that when auto transmission first came out, many people had @SQUEEKY2‘s attitude. “This automatic transmission is for lazy people!. The old way of standard transmission is the best! What if I don’t want automatic transmission and don’t want to pay for automatic transmission!” Now automatic transmission is accepted as the standard.

JLeslie's avatar

@jca I see your point, but my point is the car manufacturers sold stick shift in Europe, even American manufacturers, because the population had a resistance to automatic. The American population seemed very happy overall to switch to automatic.

Some BMWs and Porsches and others now have models not offered in a standard, this is only in recent years, and so Europe is being forced to change for certain car models. It’s been a long time coming though, and there is resistance, or at minimum some disappointment about it.

The Porsche Cayenne is one of the few SUVs I know of that has a standard option, my husband and I went back and forth when we bought one, but the main reason we went with automatic is fear it would be harder to sell in a standard. Possibly, it would have not been a problem, because the people who buy Porsche’s typically drive manual transmission, but the SUV captures people who don’t typically buy Porsche’s. I don’t even know if the option still exists, we bought it about 8 years ago.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Now if you want a standard transmission you have to order it.
But I have this question did you not pay better attention to driving when you drove a vehicle with a standard transmission?
Automatic transmissions are easier (or should I say convenient ) but does that allow people to become more distracted while driving?
They are really pushing automatics in transport trucks these days, my boss wanted to try one on us my co-driver and I told him if he did he might as well get two drivers as well he dropped it and never brought it up again.
But I must bring this up I am not against automatics because now they are quite reliable and last a good long time.
I would rather drive a standard but that is just my preference.
I am against tech gadgets that you don’t have the option of saying no to if you want a certain model knowing full well when these wonder gadgets crap out(and they will fail) you have no option but to them fixed or replaced at the dealer costing a lot of money that is what I am against.
But as @Darth_Algar pointed out it is to costly for the manufacturer to offer a scaled down version for a very limited consumer base,but that also means for those of us that don’t want, won’t use ,and don’t want to pay for all this crap are shit out of luck on those models.
That is what I am against.

jca's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: That’s technology. Probably some had the same gripes when the printing press was invented, and look now, it’s all computerized. Everything we use was “newfangled” at some point. When I was a teenager, if you wanted to watch a movie at home you went to the video store and saw what was available, and rented it for a day or two. Now nobody would do that and nobody could do that because video stores don’t exist. We watch it on the DVR, we stream it from the computer or a streaming device. We’re with little options but the way we watch now is so much easier than having to drive to a video store and taking what’s available.

Love_my_doggie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 “Now if you want a standard transmission you have to order it. But I have this question did you not pay better attention to driving when you drove a vehicle with a standard transmission? ”

The irony – having to special-order something called “standard” – certainly isn’t lost.

Until my purchase, last year, of a Toyota Prius, I’d always insisted on manual transmissions. I truly believe that shifting gears made me a better, less distracted driver. I had to pay close attention to traffic and conditions, plus I was always anticipating a stop or a change in speed. Now that I’ve had an automatic transmission for a year, I find that my mind can wander.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

THANK YOU @Love_my_doggie exactly my point in an age where distracted driving is becoming common place.
Is all this tech that is supposed to make life so much easier really a good place in the vehicle where distracted driving is becoming an epidemic ?
Is easier and convenient really a good thing in the age of distracted driving?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I didn’t get my first automatic until 1998, when I was 40. My choice. You have so much more control over the car with a standard, IMO.

The more “advanced” things get, the less people need to think, and, unfortunately, that begins to bleed through and interfere in situations where people DO need to think for themselves, but they’ve forgotten how.
I refer back to the push button, where it allows you to turn off the car while it’s still in gear. I was so used to a “babysitter” who wouldn’t let me put it in park, or take the keys out, after I’d turned off the engine, to slap me and say, “It’s still in gear, dummy,” that it was such a shock to open the door, take my foot off the brake and have the car start rolling! Kinda scary too. But “Scared” is the best teacher. And I’m a quick learner.

JLeslie's avatar

I do think driving stick people are less likely to eat, text, etc., on the local roads. So, I think that’s safer. However, in some ways I think automatic is likely safer, especially if it’s a new driver, assuming they are paying attention to the road.

In America we have very long drives at times, and the American manual transmission car was more suited for it. Comfortable seats, a place for a soda, and less effort driving it. It was perfectly timed for the explosive growth into our suburbs in the 70’s.

In bumper to number traffic for ten minutes or more I’m much happier being in an automatic. Driving through gently winding roads, where not many people are around, I prefer a manual.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I don’t think automatics are inherently safer.

And why do you think manual transmissions are more suited for long drives? Once you get it into 4th, you’re done.

IMO, bumper to bumper traffic, stop and go, is the best place for a manual. If you’re reasonably proficient you have the clutch, the brake and the accelerator working in tandem. And you’re paying attention!

JLeslie's avatar

@Dutchess_III You’re thinking long highway driving. Sometimes it’s long drives on roads with traffic lights, and very congested, and the clutch can be a pain. Once in a while no big deal, but dealing with that weekly can get annoying.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Oh. Well, I never found it to be a pain, and I drove only manuals from the day I learned how to drive, until I was 40. By choice.

JLeslie's avatar

I love driving my manual cars most of the time. It’s usually more fun, because it is more active.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yes. And I was very good at it. Very smooth. When I was in High School a guy told me, “The way you drive makes it feel like an automatic. I’ve never known a girl who could drive like that.” He probably never knew any guys who could drive like that either.

In 2013 we snagged a 1962 VW. I loved that car. Rick drove it home, and we went out a few times, with him driving. He killed it more than once, and was causing it to jerk.
He resisted letting me drive. I finally just took the keys and said, “Bye!”
He came along. He started telling me how to drive, how to use the clutch and shit. I just glanced at him and took off. I heard it start to pull and he said, “Now you…..” and I shifted to 2nd, and a moment later to 3rd, then down shifted as we were coming to a stop sign.
He never said another word.

I used to hold my car on inclines by releasing the clutch to the point where it exactly matched the cars tendency to want to pull ahead, holding it in one spot.
If I got bored, like at a train, I’d sometimes rock back and forth just by using the clutch.
The bad thing, of course, is it didn’t activate the brake lights, so I had to watch out for cars coming up behind me, and I’d flash my brakes.

Dutchess_III's avatar

The oldest car I ever drove was a 1945 pick up. It was cool!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Nice @Dutchess_III and with cars like that you paid attention to driving and the road,todays cars tell us if we get to close to the edge of our lane, or jam on the brakes if something darts out in front of us, leaving us free to do things unrelated to driving technology is great.
I mean heavens forbid if I don’t respond to that text or email the second it is on my phone the world will simply just end.

jca's avatar

I read somewhere that stop and go traffic with a clutch is more likely to cause driver fatigue. I find that to be the case. In traffic for an hour or more, very much a pain in the ass in my opinion.

I also think with many people having longer commutes now people are more likely to eat in the car. It can be dangerous to try to eat or drink and deal with shifting at the same time.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

A couple of people got mad when I said are people just to lazy or stupid to just turn a key.
Well there are three vehicle commercials that say it for me (although it has nothing to do with the key issue)
1st one has a young man driving down the road, he keeps glancing in the back seat where his two kids are asleep, and he is admiring them, all of a sudden the car has a loud beep from the dash and comes to a halt he looks up and was about to rear end a garbage truck, he looks very relieved that his car has this technology and it prevented a bad accident.
I see a person that if he gets that distracted by his kids in the back seat,is way to stupid to be driving.
2nd has two young women driving down the road, these two women are having a serious conversation and you can tell the driver is paying little attention to her driving,all of a sudden again a loud beep from the dash and the vehicle comes to a stop they look up and traffic in front of them has come to a stop,they look at each other relieved that the vehicle had the technology to prevent an accident, I see an air head women who if is that easily distracted shouldn’t be driving.
3rd is a mother driving down the neighbour hood and you can tell she is paying way more attention to her kids than her driving,again loud beep from the dash and the car comes to a stop she looks a bit confused and in the next second a man runs out and grabs a small boy that is holding a ball right in front of the vehicle and all look relieved that again the vehicle has the technology to prevent a tragedy ,and I wouldn’t a child hit but why couldn’t she be paying attention to her driving?
Driving is a serious function and requires attention why don’t most people get that?
BUT no we keep getting vehicles that are easier and easier to drive hell they will even keep us in our lane and prevent us form hitting things does that not feel like most people are getting to stupid to drive?
We need the vehicle to look out for us because we can’t,or won’t,or are to busy glancing in the back seat at the kids,or having a conversation, or simply have our attention on something besides driving.

jca's avatar

@SQUEEKY2: It must be nice to be so judgemental but I don’t think there’s a human being on the planet who has not once been distracted by something other than their driving. Yes, people with kids have gotten distracted by a screaming baby or fighting kids or something stupid the kid does. It’s inevitable. I’ve been in the car driving in heavy traffic (Paramus NJ) with a friend of mine who was rambling and rambling where I wished she would shut the fuck up and she didn’t realize I wasn’t giving her my full attention, but she just rambled on anyway. People are in a rush sometimes, people have physical ailments sometimes, people have passengers including their kids who distract them, whether they mean to or not. Truck drivers, too, I’m sure get distracted by stuff including phones. I mentioned on here about a year ago I was on 84 in CT in heavy stop and go traffic and there was a Fed Ex truck and I could see the glow of the phone as the driver was looking at it.

With these inevitable distractions, if cameras or beeps or whatever can save a life or reduce insurance costs, why not?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Your right one reason why my cells OFF when I am driving, people are in a rush most of the time it doesn’t give them an excuse to endanger the rest of us on the highway.
Mrs Squeeky has a couple of co workers that were telling her that they have a hard time with night driving so they don’t dim the headlights any more it makes it easier for them,REALLY???
and could care less when asked if they cared about blinding the drivers coming at them.
And I not excluding truckers I saw a brand new transport truck totalled because the guy was texting.
More and more vehicles are being added to North American highways every year we have to start paying better attention and STOP making excuses tell the kids to sit down and shut up, tell the friend to be quiet in heaven traffic, and most of all either put the cell in a zip lock bag in the trunk or turn it off until you have time to safely look at it.
AND stop making excuses for peoples bad driving habits we don’t need tech to look out for us we need better driving habits and skills.
OR admit people are getting to stupid to be driving.

JLeslie's avatar

I have to agree with @jca about warnings and cameras. I have a blind spot camera and I love it. My dad has an indicator when he goes out of lane and he loves it.

I don’t care how careful you are you can back up over something that is low down behind your car, especially if you are in a high up truck or SUV type vehicle. It is impossible to see a toddler right behind the car who is sitting on the ground. That’s what happened to my husband cousins son. Run over by a friend who was doing the carpool that day. The mother was right there too, she didn’t know her son was back there. Dead. A camera likely would have avoided the accident. That, or making sure you know where the boy was, but that’s a different subject.

Back up cameras are one of the best safety gadgets out there in my opinion. Not counting things like seat belts and airbags.

jca's avatar

Yeah all Honda have backup cameras as standard equipment now, which is great.

@SQUEEKY2: Yes we can tell the kid to sit down and shut up in the car but with babies, they don’t comprehend and they will cry when they’re wet or hungry and it’s very likely a parent who is driving is going to give a glance back there to see what the fuss is about.

If the tech gadgets can supplement or assist with safety (as in the great example of a backup camera), then why not? It’s very easy to be judgemental and say “People just need better driving habits and skills” but life is life and distractions do happen, and like I said, people are ill (or they’re old or they’re tired) and so this can help.

JLeslie's avatar

When I was in Italy in 1992 the person driving the car I was in pulled over when her phone rang to talk on the phone. Back then it was against the law to talk on the phone and drive in Italy. Or, at least where she lived, I don’t know if it was the entire country.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I understand the crying child thing I guess that makes it ok for that parent to endanger all the rest of us on the road then right?
I must admit I don’t have problems with things like back up cameras if it makes it easier to spot a child that may have wondered behind you.
I have a problem is people relying on this tech stuff instead of their driving skills for day to day use.
as you stated for a back up camera why not.
Did you read my post about the commercials?If you are going to rely on it because your going to be distracted then I have a problem with it.
And it still should be an option for those of us that do not want it.

jca's avatar

OK I think we’ve all repeated ourselves enough on this thread.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2
You go out and buy the only Ford F-150 with roll-up windows, standard transmission, rubber floor mats, delete radio, delete heater/air conditioner and hubs not alloy wheels.

I feel you think anyone that has any of your listed offensive options are members to be, of the “Darwin Award”.

BUT please get off your “Soap Box” and buy that vehicle.—There is a Yiddish phase kvetch, it suits the way you look at the world and the members of Fluther.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Very funny there @Tropical_Willie I do want a scaled back model but do need AC and heat, But come on people do rely on this tech stuff to much it’s ok to be distracted because the vehicle will look out for me type thing is not ok in my books.
Maybe I am indeed getting burned out by making my living on the road where year after year I see peoples driving habits getting worse not better and expecting tech and everyone else to look out for them because they are in a hurry,distracted by the cell phone or children.
and that seems to be a good enough excuse, but don’t worry tech gadgets will save me .
I ask is it ok that I run a family off the road because the dispatcher was screaming at me to get there at all costs??
after all I was in a hurry!
I wasn’t lying when I said a couple of Mrs Squeekys co workers no longer dim their head lights to on coming traffic because it makes it to hard for them to see. WE need NO we HAVE to start paying better attention to driving that is all.
Yeah I bitch but if you have seen half the stuff I have in the last 27year you would bitch as well.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

“High beams” do not make a push button start a bad thing.

It was not meant to be a “funny”; get off the SOAP BOX”, we know you hate technology and dumb people.

Find something to be for not AGAINST !

JLeslie's avatar

Two separate things. The person not paying attention to the road I don’t think is relying on tech, they are being bad drivers—distracted drivers. They should pull off the road if they need to. The person who maintains their high beams on purpose so they can see when there is oncoming traffic, should not be driving at night. Maybe once in a while they come home later than they expected, that could happen, but it should not be their standard practice. I’m just going to go ahead and agree with you in those @SQUEEKY2.

Even very good drivers make mistakes on the road, some of the tech helps with that. It’s not always a bad driver who does a bad maneuver. I don’t know if you are an “angry driver” but I’ll give you unsolicited advice that it’s better not to be. Someone does something wrong, and your defensive driving avoids the accident, then great, don’t dwell on it just carry on. Maybe you do this already, I’m not assuming.

I would bet you can get air conditioning in the very basic ford truck. Usually, air is not in a big package.

One more thing, it’s likely as you get older you will make more mistakes on the road, so you might want to curb how uptight you are about the driving of others, because one day it might be you who makes a mistake on the road. No one is perfect.

jca's avatar

When you’re perfect, you’re allowed to be rigidly judgemental. None of us are perfect.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh I am far from perfect, but when do screw up driving I learn from it and don’t do it again.
There other models beside Ford that offer scaled back models.
What was getting me mad a lot of makes don’t offer scaled back models and if you want it you are forced to take and pay for all the technology wonder gadgets.
Another thing was the excuses for peoples bad driving,people have to wake up they are not only endangering themselves but everyone else on the road as well,and to me they seemed to be relying on these tech gadgets to make up for this lack of attention, some tech stuff is fine such as rear back up camera, but do we really need the vehicle to watch the road and brake for us because we are to distracted by looking at the kids in the back seat?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Yes on automatic braking because “shit happens” while you are behind the wheel, ”Oh I am far from perfect, but when do screw up driving”. ^^^^

Why have an accident?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I wish to hell there was a warning on the cell phone when a person is texting and walking down the street with a two year old behind them, that screams “YOUR KID IS WANDERING INTO THE STREET YOU IDIOT!” or “YOU LOST YOUR KID 3 BLOCKS AGO!!” People get so stupidly oblivious when it comes to their phones. I hate them for that reason.

I have to say, though, that cars that alert you when you wander out of your lane isn’t such a bad thing, especially because SO MANY people do that today because they’re paying attention to their phone, and not their driving.
Used to be only really old people or really drunk people wandered around in their lane.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@Dutchess_III

Like this one or maybe this one. There ways to control wnadering kids.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

See that kind of gadget I can identify with,and I don’t have kids.
But @dutchess is right you see people so unaware of what’s around them because they have their nose buried in their phone.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I referred specifically to people out walking down the street with their kids. If they have a need for a locater to keep track of their kids while they’re walking along, there’s a real problem there, somewhere.
How about you hold the kid’s hand or have them walk next to you and do something really weird, like talk to them and interact with them?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

But-But @Dutchess_III that would take an effort and cut down on their text time, better just put a tech gadget on them and keep on texting you can look for them later.
After all in life (shit happens) but texting is right now.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Right?! And texting is more important than anything else.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

For sure and it has to be true, we see people walking into traffic, off stairs, into bears thats right there was a bear that wondered into the northern part of LA one day and a news crew was filming and this guy almost walked right into the thing because he wouldn’t look up,
Another lady walked right into a water fountain at a shopping mall because she was texting.
I came on an accident a truck driver totalled a brand new truck because he was texting.
So you must be right this texting is more important than anything another reason we need all these tech gadgets in todays vehicles to keep us safe when we are to distracted by texting.

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