Social Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

Why, oh why is it that if a man stops to assist a woman in someway, even if she didn't ask for help and didn't need help, they always expect a sexual favor in return?

Asked by Dutchess_III (39523points) May 1st, 2017

That has been my experience, any way. I’ve had, probably, 10 flat tires in my life. I know how to change a tire. Invariably a male would stop to “help” me. Even if I said “No thank you. I have this,” they would insist.
Then they would get angry if I didn’t reciprocate by going out with them, or having sex with them.

Why do they do that?

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113 Answers

kritiper's avatar

To assume that all men are like that is sexist.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

From fantasy movies and save the princess video games NSFW YouTube princess video games robot chicken zelda . I agree with @kritiper I’m not like that.

Aethelwine's avatar

I’ve come across many creepy men in my life but this has never happened to me when I was broken down on the side of the road. Everyone has always been kind.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I did note “In my experience,”, @kritiper. Almost always they expected payment in that way. The first time it happend I was just 17. Guy old enough to be my dad stopped to help. He got REALLY mad when I refused to have a drink with him later. Kind of scared me.

One time I ran out of gas. A car full of guys my age pulled up, and offered to take me to get some gas. I politely declined to get in the car with them. They kept badgering me to get in the car with them, but I refused.
Finally one guys said, “I don’t blame her for not getting in the car you guys! Let’s just go get her some gas.”
I thanked him very much and gave them $10.
After they left, a cop stopped by. I told them what had happened, and help was on the way. He said I was naive, and I’d never see them or my $10 again. He said he’d come back around in an hour, see how I was doing.
They came back! The one guy, who took my side about getting in the car asked me for my number. Looking back now, I rather wished I had given it to him.
In that case no one else seemed to expect something in return except thanks, and none of them got mad at me.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I agree with @kritiper that is kind of sexist even if all the strange men you have felt with behave like that.
If I offer help to a lady I don’t know and she says no thanks then fine I am on my way.
Lets turn this around are all women just gold diggers, it seems that every woman my dad dated after my step mom passed away just wanted to see what they could get out of him, is that fair?
Don’t get me wrong there are lot of creepy people men and women just don’t lump them all together.
People get mad at me when I lump all car drivers as just plain BAD, is that fair as well?

Darth_Algar's avatar

Well this certainly seems like a thread to encourage thoughtful discussion.

chyna's avatar

I’ve never had that happen to me. As a matter of fact, the last time I had a flat, about 10 years ago, I had already called a road service and a man stopped to ask me if I needed help. I told him no, I was waiting for the road service. He told me he would sit in his car until help came to make sure I was safe and that is exactly what he did. When they pulled up, he pulled out and waved.

Aethelwine's avatar

Wow. My comment was unhelpful?

I only said this has never happened to me. Men have always been kind.

Aethelwine's avatar

So answers can only be about how awful men are? smh

Darth_Algar's avatar

Jesus Christ. So what the fuck is the point of this?

SavoirFaire's avatar

[Mod Says] This question has been moved to Social and the moderated answers have been restored.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

What kind of assholes do you hang with? Where do you get this sexist shit?

canidmajor's avatar

This has also not been my experience. My various experiences with this type of situation have been similar to @chyna‘s and @jonsblond.‘s

Soubresaut's avatar

What you describe are not men, although the mistake is understandable and common and unfortunate. Colloquially, they are known as “tools,” their scientific name being sexreciprius prikius major. They are known for their ability to disguise themselves as humans of either biological sex, and to walk about the street unrecognized until their approach. In some circles, they have a reputation for appearing more in the male than the female form, although this is subject to much debate, and even if the reputation is borne out in fact, many believe it to be the result of historical sociopolitical circumstances that traditionally encouraged sexreciprius prikius major to take a male form more often than a female one—and not, experts conclude, a result of anything innate in the species or in the human sexes they impersonate.

Thankfully, most members of the prikius genus tend to be relatively benign in their irritation. Sexreciprius can be more persistent than others in the genus, however, most will respond to a firm rebuffing, and this is generally recommended as the first step to shoo them away.

Men, by contrast, are kind, generous, and thoughtful—traits which experts trace back to their Homo sapiens sapiens lineage—and it would be a shame to cast them all in a bad light because of a few bad eggs.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@jonsblond no one said your comment was unhelpful. I gave you a GA. I gave everyone a GA. I do realize that my experiences might not be the norm for every woman, but it sure kinda seemed like it back then.

These weren’t people I hung out with @Espiritus_Corvus. I’m talking about strangers.

Sneki95's avatar

At least people expect something from you.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Soubresautsexrecipricius prikius major.” Lol! Got dat right! From the genus Assholeisisus.

What do you mean “At least people expect something from” me @Sneki95? Are they supposed to?

Aethelwine's avatar

@Dutch My response was removed and labeled unhelpful by the mods. The first four answers were all removed.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@Darth_Algar I just wondered why so many men, in my experience expected something sexual in return? Why?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I can see them all @jonsblond….? I don’t see that any answers at all have been removed. They moved it to social per my request. Don’t know if that affected anything.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

@Dutchess_III Those men might have been desperate for sex and opportunists. Sorry that you encountered jerks.

Aethelwine's avatar

@Dutch They were all removed before the question was sent to social. That explains the confusion by me and Darth.

cinnamonk's avatar

Perhaps they thought they were entitled to having sex with you because they were accustomed to special treatment.

Dutchess_III's avatar

In all honesty, before I found Fluther I assumed it happened to all women as often as it happened to me, which is to say ALL THE FREAKIN’ TIME. Yeah, it made me suspicious of all men. But please note I did not say “all men did this.” In my experience most men did, especially the older gross ones. I learned very quickly to never accept a drink from a strange male. The younger ones always asked for my number, but that wasn’t that odd. We were all young and single.

@jonsblond can you see them now? I’m just curious.

janbb's avatar

Either you live in a whole different world than me or you must send off some mighty pheromones, @Dutchess_III . In any case, your constant male bashing gets a bit tiresome. Just sayin’

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Yes. With all due love,and respect, these threads,and ones about gender have a cyclical, predictable pattern of men are pigs…

Coloma's avatar

Must be those Kansas bubbas, I have never had something like this happen, and I have had a few strange males stop to help me with car trouble over the years.

Sneki95's avatar

^ Your ears or theirs?

Coloma's avatar

@Sneki95 LOL, thanks for catching that. haha

Patty_Melt's avatar

I have had numerous kind strangers help me in a variety of ways, and I don’t recall a single one trying anything sexual. Then again, I didn’t stick my short curlies in their faces while they were kneeling.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yeah, I know @janbb. It was my “pheromones.” I had a prescription for them, you see. I took them religiously. I overdosed on them.
And @Patty_Melt your insinuation was pretty bad too. Both of you are suggesting it was my fault some how. Shame on you.
I was harassed from about the age of 12. I very quickly learned to try to downplay those areas of my body that they seemed most interested it. I never showed cleavage, I never wore anything tight, and I never wore anything really short. The shortest dress I ever had, which I purchased at my boy friend’s request (after my divorce) came about 4 inches above the knee. Stopped the damn room when I walked in wearing it, and 4 inch heels. I hated the attention, actually, but I did it because he asked me to, and he was there to protect me. I wore it twice, at his request. It’s something I would have never worn if I’d gone clubbing with girlfriends, by my self. Never.
Once all of my sisters and I were together in a car I was driving. They’re beautiful. An ambulance went by us, sirens screaming. The driver (and I’m not kidding) about wrecked the ambulance when he hung out the window to look back at us. We weren’t even naked.
But I’m sure we asked for it simply by being beautiful women. How dare we.

I just wondered what makes some men think they’re entitled to some “reward”?

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III I don’t think you will get an answer to that question here. A lot of the men here are fine people. As for the rest, well, I doubt they will chime in. At least not with real answers. I’m surprised the snarkies haven’t showed up yet.

Aethelwine's avatar

@Dutchess I’ve told my horror stories here many times about how I’ve been treated by boys in my past. They don’t deserve to be called men. I don’t doubt your experiences and I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with a bunch of jerks.

(I see the first four answers now)

tinyfaery's avatar

One of my long term boyfriends was the type to help anyone. He would often pull over when he saw someone with car trouble, girl or guy. Bugged the shit out of me sometimes. He never was like a typical guy though.

I think that in most situations when you ask why are all <insert any group of people> something, you are generalizing. Generalizing has no bearing on the truth.

Patty_Melt's avatar

MY insinuation is bad?
Do you EVER get tired of man bashing.
Your insinuations are mean.
I’ve had men hit on me. I’ve been stalked, but I’ve encountered many many men who were just plain kind.
You have made your point abundantly clear. Men can’t resist your bod, and you hate them for it. Let’s move on.
You can be a career victim, it seems you’ve chosen to, or get some help to move on, and stop thinking like a victim. It is freedom to put those things behind you. I know you have been advised here several times to get help, but you just get angry. Me, I would totally rather be happy. You have to share your home planet with men, so get some belp with learning how you can do that without all the resentment.

Aethelwine's avatar

I don’t think we should be so hard on Dutchess. She is sharing experiences that many of you have never witnessed. This does not make her a man bashing hater. She knows not all men are like this, but men like this do exist.

The same thing happened with HC. He shared his experiences with women. The type of women that many of you never had a chance to interact with. Because of his life experiences that differed from all of you, you labeled him as a woman hater.

Shitty people exist. Some of us want to know what makes them tick.

Patty_Melt's avatar

I get that she has had unpleasant experiences, but it goes on and on. At some point a person has got to learn how to focus elsewhere.
I live with chronic pain, which is with me all day every day, and most of each night. I have mentioned it sometimes, but I want my life to involve more, and I try for that.
I would like for all of us to be friends, but all this man hate is just like the rain. If it doesn’t stop, we’re gonna be up to our necks, and that isn’t beneficial.
Dutchess, I get that you hurt, but jellies have done all we can about it. You need to find somebody who can help you cope. I don’t say that to be mean. I honestly want you to get help so you can be a happier person.

flutherother's avatar

10 flat tyres is a lot. Do you check your treads?
PS free advice, no favours required.

canidmajor's avatar

Part of the problem (not the man problem, the angry response to the Q problem) may be the set-up, @Dutchess_III. The initial question, as worded, got my hackles up before I even read the details. ”...they always expect a sexual favor in return?
It is incumbent on the asker of the Q to not set it up in such a way as to invite a knee-jerk reaction, unless that is what they want.
Unless this scenario happened to you yesterday, your outraged wording of the Q is just inflammatory, and not the poorly worded result of an understandable recent outrage.

snowberry's avatar

@jonsblond HC, Dutchess, myself, and maybe others all have something in common, and it’s all based on personal experience. With HC it’s a particular view of women. With Dutch it’s men, and with me it’s medical people and policy. Someone confronted me a while ago that maybe I was the common denominator in all my horrible experiences (as if I was the problem or maybe making it up, etc.)

I can tell you for a fact I didn’t make up any of the stories I have told here.

There was the time I was left to die in agony by myself on a gurney in the hallway of an army hospital. I will never be able to forget the horrible way my mother’s many doctors treated her during her lifelong illness. Likewise for the gynecologist who threw a tantrum, stomped out of the room, turned off the lights and slammed the door and left me alone while I was still in stirrups on the exam table! How could I forget when my twins were infants and their pediatrician chewed me out because my girls were having too many ear infections. as if it were somehow my fault! I could go on and on.

Apparently those experiences were our fault. Or we made them up. Or maybe, just possibly, we didn’t make them up.

Maybe these bad experiences are sort of like the cat that goes right to the person who hates them the most. Maybe we somehow “attract” them. I don’t know. I certainly would not wish these experiences on anyone, and I am pretty sure that HC and Duchess feel the same. You can bet that I am very cautious, even skeptical when I need to work with medical people, and I have every right to be. And I extend the same courtesy to Dutchess and HC.

Cautionary tales like this are worth hearing again and again because they did happen and continue to happen, at least to some of us. We need to care for each other, and be compassionate.

chyna's avatar

@snowberry Did you mean to address that to @jonsblond ? It seems to me that she was taking up for HC and Dutchess.

snowberry's avatar

Oops. Sorry. I am past the edit window!

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Looks like flutherites are finally acknowledging what I feel like I have been calling out here for years.

Aethelwine's avatar

So run off another user because you don’t approve of their questions? I’m not saying Dutchess is going to leave, but I’ve seen this happen before. People leave when you all bring out the pitchforks.

She isn’t a man hater.

Coloma's avatar

Disagreeing with the way a question is worded or disliking a users game playing strategies has nothing to do with running anyone off. If you can’t take a little criticism, flak or disagreement then maybe you’re too sensitive to play with all the kids in the big sandbox. Generalizations simply are offensive as are those users that game the system here.

canidmajor's avatar

Well, @jonsblond, if we are confused or annoyed or feel a bit personally attacked by the wording of a question, especially from someone who has been here a long time and (unless they are most dense and unobservant person ever ) should have some idea how such things will be perceived and responded to, then maybe, just maybe, they could accept the teensiest bit of responsibility for their phrasing.
Unless, of course, you don’t think of Dutchess or those other two who leap to mind as adults.

janbb's avatar

And @jonsblond if it smells like a duck and quacks like a duck consistently or if it smells like a pervy hypocrite and quacks like a pervy hypocrite, gonna call that out too.

Coloma's avatar

^ Agreed. Being real is what it’s about, not sucking up to bullshit.

kritiper's avatar

In trying to answer the question, all I can say is that when it comes to “casual sex,” it must have been a man who invented the concept. Some men (and I don’t mean to imply that some women aren’t) can be SO damn causal about it! It’s ridiculous, really…

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yeah, the wording of my question was bad. But in my experience every random man who offered assistance to me really expected a reward of some kind. But I was young. The majority of these things happened before I was 20. It was confusing. Sometimes very frightening. Hell, by the age of 16 I was afraid of all men.
As I got older, and more assertive, when I politely, but firmly, refused assistance (or a drink or a dance request) because they would expect something in return, I started getting called names.

I know there are many men on here, and I can name them, who wouldn’t behave like that. Anyone I ever actually dated never behaved like that. No man that I would call a “friend” would act like that.

I thought about this thread a lot yesterday. I thought “Maybe I WAS doing something to bring it on.” Last night I asked Rick, “Hey. When I first walked into your mower shop (the first time we laid eyes on each other) did I do any thing provocative?”
He said, “Yeah. Ya did.”
My heart sank.
He said, “You smiled.”
I said, “WHAT???”
He said, “Yeah. You smiled at something I said.”
I looked at him in utter disbelief. He grinned and shrugged. “Well, ya did.”
I said, “Was what I had on super sexy?”
He laughed at that, because he knows me now. “Val, you never did sexy, unless you call dresses down to your feet and shirts buttoned up to your throat ‘sexy.’ But you shouldn’t have smiled.” I whacked him with a pillow.

I just never understood that other stuff. I really still don’t. I was NOT “asking for it.” I did not want it. I was hoping for a POV that would explain it.

I apologize for the wording of the question.

chyna's avatar

@Dutchess_III Every random man that you ever met that offered you assistance? Wow.

rojo's avatar

I could actually give you the answer to this but, um, I would need to meet you in person at the motel down the street. Ok?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Most excellent answer @snowberry and I agree maybe all the men she encountered wanted something, but to lump us all in that group is offending.
I myself am guilty of it when ranting about bad car drivers or idiots who can’t stop texting for one second, but when I lump all car drivers in the same group people get offended or the same with text lovers.
I have to learn all car drivers are not bad, and lots of people do use their cell phones responsibly , does that mean we can let our guard down of course not.
I have learned All car drivers are not bad, lots of people do use their cell phones responsibly, and @Dutchess_III has learned All men are NOT perverts that just want sex.

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

Personally, I am happy as hell HC is gone. He himself ran off some pretty good people that didn’t want to be associated with a site that tolerated him. His justification of pedophilia last September finally hit the troll button he’d been hunting for. It took him seven years to finally find the one thing that won’t ever be tolerated here and justify his sick persecution complex—and he paid the price. Good fucking riddance.

jca's avatar

I remember when I was just turning 18, my car ran out of gas on the way home, around 9:00 in the evening. It was pouring rain and I had no money and no credit card. A man stopped and offered me a ride to the gas station AND he gave me a few dollars for gas. He was about 50, a distinguished African American man. He was very pleasant and I was very vulnerable but he took no advantage of the situation.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Yes @chyna. From the age of 12 on.

@SQUEEKY2 I know all men are not perverts that just want sex. I had boyfriends and two husbands. I knew / know many men who wouldn’t try to take advantage of me when I was in a tight spot. I guess the strangers who stopped figured that was their chance and that’s the only reason they stopped.

@jca You got in the car??? OMG! What a quandary. Stranded, at night, in the middle of nowhere. Nightmare.

@Espiritus_Corvus and all who are discussing HC. That is interesting. I almost brought him up myself earlier. I have no doubt he would have been one of the pervs had he stopped to help a young lady out. I think now that you know him, you can imagine it.

There have been people who have been simply kind. As I said, the worst was between the ages of 12 and 20, until I finally wised up. I was once coming back from somewhere, and it was just me and the three kids. It was dark. I was getting low on gas. I stopped at a gas station. At that time I had a Discover credit card. A lot of people didn’t take Discover, so I went in and asked the girl behind the counter if they did. She said they did. So I filled up. When I went to pay the owner told me they didn’t take Discover. I was stuck. I said, “Well, I can mail you a check when I get home.”
He said he wanted something for collateral, and suggested I leave my spare tire. I agreed. As he started to unload it he paused, looked at me and the kids, and put it back.
he said, “I can’t send a woman out, who is alone with three small children, out into the night with no spare. Just mail me a check when you get home.”
That was SO nice! It’s the first thing I did when I got back. He promptly sent me a thank you card. He said, “I honestly didn’t expect to hear from you again. You have restored my faith in humanity!”
It was nice. I was in my 30’s then.

jca's avatar

@Dutchess_III: It was in an area where there were not many cars at that hour, it was pouring rain, I had no money, this was before the days of cell phones and I remember I had a skirt and heels on (I think I went out after work). It was March so it was probably cold (I remember it was right around my 18th birthday which is in March). So I would have been up the creek without a paddle and this man was my saving grace. I remember being up some stone steps and my car was stopped by the road below. When the man pulled up and put his hazards on next to my car, I took my heels off and rain in the grass and mud to get to his car.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m glad it turned out OK. You really didn’t have a choice, did you. I would have done the same. I mean, what else can you do? But I would have kept my hand on the door handle, ready to jump! I would have been terrified.

I remember something Addy said once. He stopped to help a woman with 3 kids who had a flat. He changed it for her. He said he could almost smell the fear coming from her. It confused him and made him sad at the same time. He was such a great guy.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

I walked home ,from the middle of the night in downtown Edmonton, to the edge to the city. I passed out almost there. A nice lady drove up and took me home . I really appreciate it. I did not feel uncomfortable. I felt saved.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, you’re a guy.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

@Dutchess_III Still I would be scared if a trucker picked me up. I was only 19. Maybe only women should pick up other women. To be safe. Or maybe an I’m not dangerous card that you can check for.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

HEY^ Now I am offended with that answer. :)

Patty_Melt's avatar

Actually, with a trucker, you could choose not to accept a ride, but they could still help anyway. With those radios, they could alert people to help you; police, ambulance, tow truck, or if she has a radio, they could get your mommy to come pick you up. Nowadays, most have cell phones too.
I have been helped by truckers some. Lots of them like to be road heroes.
Ha! One time I was driving a few states in a short time. I had a cb radio, and found some truckers in my vicinity going my way. They cradled me. I drove between two trucks, and we were going eighty or better. They said if the fuzz buster went off, they’d “woop” in the mic so I would know to let off the gas. That way the cop would never notice me… so long as I keep my foot off the brake so the lights wouldn’t tip them off.
It was so cool! Gawd, we blew Ohio in like a minute.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Fun. I was a teen when CB radio stuff got cool. I forget what my handle was, but my girlfriend was “Sweet Thing,” and OMG, she flirted with those guys! They loved hearing from her.

It’s a CONVOY!

Aethelwine's avatar

@snowberry Cautionary tales like this are worth hearing again and again because they did happen and continue to happen, at least to some of us. We need to care for each other, and be compassionate.

^This! You are exactly right. I’m really disappointed in some people here who are lacking in the understanding and compassion department. They’d rather critisize and scold.

Thanks for the kind message Dutchess.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Re, kind message…YOU STARTED IT @jonsblond! :)

Yes, they really did happen. And no, I was never asking for it.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^I’m sure I’ll regret this, but…

Relevant;

You get mad when men are vulgar. But your own friend refers to herself as “sweet thing” . And flirts with men on a CB radio, that she never met.
How is this different from men cat calling, and being inappropriate?

It’s quite hypocritical, and I am glad many in this thread have drawn attention to the double standard….

Dutchess_III's avatar

That was my friend, not me. I did not flirt. She wanted the attention, and she got it. She did many inappropriate things. As time unfolds I realize she experienced sexual abuse as a kid and her mom was an alcoholic.

And the difference is, the men enjoyed her flirting. She was not doing anything against their will. But if you want to see welcome flirting as comparable to inappropriate, unwelcome sexual predation, well, whatever trips your trigger, man. If you want to use that as an excuse to continue your unwelcome sexual behavior, then so be it. No one can make you stop except you.

I guess your mind set was the same as the mindset of men who came to my “rescue” and expected to be paid back. Look at how some other women act! They’re all just asking for it.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I love you Dutch. But you are wrong here…

If I don’t agree with you, I’m a rapist…

Dutchess_III's avatar

Are you saying that because some women flirt, and most men like it, and she isn’t doing it against their will, that gives men a license to do and say things to ALL women, even if it makes the women uncomfortable or even afraid? It gives them license to do things to a woman against their will? I’m not following you.

If you can explain it better, please do.

MrGrimm888's avatar

No….And you know no…

Dutchess_III's avatar

I knew that couldn’t be right but I couldn’t understand what your were trying to say. I’ve been exhausted all day, and now I can’t go to sleep!

I think what you meant was, if women can flirt with men, then men should be able to flirt with women. Well, if everyone is cool with it, then of course! Flirting is a fact of life, and many men have flirted with me but most were a gentleman about it. It didn’t bother me…unless they got pissed off and threatening when I rejected their advances. Most did not. They just went away disappointed.
IF, however, the person doing the “flirting” is scaring someone or making some one uncomfortable, then it’s not OK whether it’s a man or a woman.
If you know a woman who likes being grabbed in the crotch when she walks by, then grab away, if you’re that kind of man. But it’s wrong to assume ALL women like to be grabbed in the crotch because one woman does.
So my friend was comfortable with the flirting, and the men loved it. I would not have been comfortable with it.

And the frustrations I expressed weren’t about simple flirting. It was about demands for sex .

anniereborn's avatar

@Dutchess_III You had ten flat tires between the ages of
16(I assume that’s when you started driving) and 20? That’s insane.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Ok no. But various car issues or other situations where men saw an opportunity to save damsel in distress whether she really needed it or not. Ran out of gas or whatever. I just said flat tires because the scariest one involved flat tire when I was 16.

jca's avatar

@Dutchess_III: Look at what you just wrote: ”If you know a woman who likes being grabbed in the crotch when she walks by, then grab away, if you’re that kind of man. But it’s wrong to assume ALL women like to be grabbed in the crotch because one woman does.

Yet if a guy or a few guys demanded sexual favors in return for helping you, all men are like that? Do you see the contradiction?

chyna's avatar

If a random stranger asked to watch you pee, would that be sexual aggression on his part?

MrGrimm888's avatar

@Dutchess_III . I was trying to point out that while you have valid points, and I believe your stories, these are not one sided issues.

Let’s analyze your friend’s chosen handle.

“Sweet thing.”

Sweet ; tasty, desirable, flavor (usually used to describe some’thing’ good, or a food item.)

Thing ; a nondescript word meaning object (not usually used to describe a person, or even an animal.)

So. Your friend’s handle is self objectifying… She’s “training” the men she speaks to, to see her in the light you so vehemently oppose. Her flirtatious behavior, coupled with her name would lead most average people to perceive her as a sex object. Correct?

How many other females engage in the same type of behavior?

How do you ever expect women to be perceived differently, when some women objectify themselves, and fan the flames of ignorance?

The hypocrisy is amazing. How would you feel if a strange man called you “sweet thing?”

I wager you’d be on Fluther, talking about how terrible men are…

This is the double standard, that drives me nuts.

@jca points out another example.

You’re choosing to see things from only one side.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

@jonsblond I really don’t think anyone has anything personal against dutch and I don’t believe anyone is trying to run her off. Calling out this particular double standard has in a way become my mission here, it is not at all personal.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
MrGrimm888's avatar

Correct @ARE_you_kidding_me . I like Dutch, and the last thing I want, is to run her off. But this gender thing is super old, and needs to be addressed…

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I agree with these 2 ^^^ @Dutchess_III is one of my most favourite people on this site, and in no way is this personal.
While I find it quite sad that she had such a horrible experience when it comes to strange men.

MollyMcGuire's avatar

I don’t find that to be true.

Aethelwine's avatar

Several called her out as sexist.

She’s called out for male bashing.

“It must have been her pheromones.”

“Then again I didn’t stick my short curlies in their faces while they were kneeling.”

Yeah, none of that is personal or slut shaming.~

She just wanted to know why men treated her like shit.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@jca I DID say “That has been my experience, anyway.” It was the opening line in my details.

@MrGrimm888 I totally agree with you about my friend. I understood how suggestive it was. I would have never chosen such a term to refer to my self. She knew it was suggestive too, and that’s exactly why she choose it. She is not representative of all women, and I know the predators that put themselves in my path were not representative of all men.
I just wondered what causes some men to think they deserve sexual favors just for helping a woman out.

Yeah, I loved that part @jonsblond. Two women, telling another woman, “You were just asking for it,” having no clue what I was wearing or how I was acting. SOME men treated me like an object to be used. Not all. I guess I managed to wind up with more than my fair share, for some reason.

@SQUEEKY2 it really is sad. It started before sex was ever even on my mind, when I was about 12. When I was 14 I babysat for a family up the road. When the parents got home I could tell they had been drinking. The husband insisted on driving me home, which I thought was odd. We lived on a dirt road. We didn’t have the kind of lighting they had in town, and I’d walked that route a thousand times, in the dark. But he just insisted, for my own “safety.” Well, I was clueless, and he was a friend of my father’s so I said, “Well, OK.” scratching my head. You can guess the rest. He didn’t rape me, because I jumped out of the car and ran the rest of the way home. I never told anyone.

When it starts when you’re that young, I think it makes a bigger impression. It easily sets up a mistrust of all men. And it was the older men who scared me, not so much the kids my age, but I had a couple of run ins with them too.

I guess that’s what keeps coming through in my questions, no matter how many times I qualify them.

Again, I apologize.

And per your PM, @MrGrimm888, I guess I missed the point again, even with this comment.

Dutchess_III's avatar

For some poor women it starts when they’re children.

Aethelwine's avatar

I admit I had a knee jerk reaction when I read the question like most others here, but then I looked at who was asking and knew you didn’t mean all men.

People get so bent out of shape over semantics here. I think the people telling others that a thick skin is needed and they need to put their big girl panties on need to look in the mirror. They get worked up because you said always when most of us know that’s not what you meant.

When I first joined I made a comment about women being emotional. Omg, so many pitchforks came out. Of course I didn’t mean all women, but people were quick to put me in my place. It’s ridiculous.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I know, but in my experience, anytime a male stopped to help me, or did anything at all, he expected a reward. Every fucking time.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thinking about it, I was “rescued,” several times when I didn’t NEED to be rescued. I guess a certain kind of man would build a scenario around whatever situation I was in, and pretend to come to the rescue, using that as an excuse to move into my space. A normal, decent man might stop and say, “You need help?” If I said, “No, I got this.” they’d just say, “OK.” and move on. An indecent man would just intrude.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

There is a double standard when it come to this type of discourse. Women are innocent until proven guilty and men are guilty until proven innocent. It’s bullshit and it has got to stop. @Dutchess_III I seriously doubt this happened to you every time. I help people like that when I can and I never expect anything other than thank you. I’m as average a guy as you will ever find. Either you live in pervertville, your memory is selective, you are reading into things that are not there or you simply want everyone to think that men can’t resist you. Regardless, the common denominator is…you. Most guys don’t want a reward for helping you

chyna's avatar

@jonsblond she has made a point to say every man multiple times on this thread alone. Each time she was questioned about it she repeatedly said every man. I’m calling bullshit on that.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m telling you, it did. As I said above, I’m thinking decent man might stop and offer help, and if I declined, they would go on. An indecent would just barge in, take over, and then expect payment. @ARE_you_kidding_me did you ask if they needed help first, or did you just barge in and take over?
I was never in a situation that I couldn’t handle myself. When I ran out of gas, I could have, and would have walked a mile or two to get gas. But that car full of guys rolled up and offered to give me a ride. Well, I wasn’t going to get in a car full of strange guys, although they kind of kept harassing me to. Not happening! Finally they agreed to go get the gas for me. That was the most mild “harassment” of all. And I have no doubt “Sweet Thing” up there would have jumped right in.
As I said, it was the older men who were the most aggressive. They were the ones who assumed that if you allowed them to buy you a drink you were agreeing to sex, and got angry when they realized it wasn’t going to happen. I only made that mistake once.

ARE_you_kidding_me's avatar

Of course I always ask first.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I am listening to you guys, listening to your disbelief, and starting to wonder myself. Well, look back. In virtually every situation I mentioned I was set up. The first guy insisting that I let him change my tire, even though I was almost done. I politely said, “Well, OK.” Then found myself almost trapped my an man who became enraged when I refused to have a drink with him. (For one thing, I wasn’t old enough to legally drink.)

The whose kids I baby sat. Set me up, under the guise of “protecting” me. I naively stepped right into the trap, and I was attacked.

The first time a guy, again older, offered to buy me a drink. I was a young, broke college student…and I stepped right into the trap.

Coloma's avatar

Well…it is pretty simple. IF a woman feels someone is coming on to her in a creepy way, she can exercise her right to call bullshit and set them straight stat. I did this a few years ago when a married band member that was auditioning for live music at a party I was throwing came onto me. I told him straight up, on the spot ” I don’t do married men.”

Shut him right down. I did hire the band and he behaved himself.

Dutchess_III's avatar

In the end it IS simple, but it didn’t happen immediately. Had to go through some pretty tough life lessons to get there. I mean, Jesus! A man that I looked up to like a father figure….I’d see it in a heart beat now, but I was only 13 or 14 when it happened. Totally unexpected.
By the time I was 19 I was a pro. Shut a lot of men down. Usually they went quietly, sometimes not.

NomoreY_A's avatar

You must encounter some really creepy guys. I know that some men think they’re Gods gift to the female gender, but this is ridiculous.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have met some truly creepy guys in my life. Most while they were trying to take advantage of a situation.

Many more, most, were not creepy. My creep-o-meter was well tuned at a young age.

Coloma's avatar

When I was pregnant with my daughter there was a super creepy guy that lived next door to us at the time. “Dale.” Dale lived with his elderly mother, he was in his 30’s I’d say and he was OBSESSED with my pregnancy. He constantly wanted to touch and fondle my growing belly. The guy was SO effing CREEPY!

I was constantly on the lookout for him trying to get in and out of my house without running into him. Just going to the mail box at the end of the driveway was stressful, was Dale lurking?
I was so happy when we moved from that house when my daughter was a baby. I am not a paranoid type at all but this guy had me thinking some paranoid thoughts for sure.

Funny how you associate names with creeps. My names on the creep list are “Dale”, “Wayne” and ‘Darrel.” every one of those names have been attached to creepy guys I have met. lol

MrGrimm888's avatar

^Darrel from the Walking Dead helps women. And never asks for sexual favors… He could have had sex with lots of women,in the post apocalyptic world. But he didn’t…..

Coloma's avatar

^ Okay, fine, ONE redeeming point for ONE Darrel. lol

MrGrimm888's avatar

^There’s an exception to most rules ;)

NomoreY_A's avatar

@ Dutchess III Well, turn down the creep o meter, and turn up the Casanova Meter. As I said, some guys think they’re Don Juan and Casanova rolled into one. Beware that type.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I know all types @NomoreY_A.
I was thinking the other day about if you went out with a guy and went to his house afterward they always put on Barry White! * rolls eyes. *
One guy put on Geno Vanille tho! LOL! So I dated him for 2 years. Of course he never played Geno again.

NomoreY_A's avatar

Mood music, eh?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Guess they think we’ll swoon!

NomoreY_A's avatar

You mean you weren’t so impressed you fell into his arms? ; )

Dutchess_III's avatar

Dicks are so ridiculous!

NomoreY_A's avatar

Well, I resent that. I’m pretty attached to mine.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Most men are. And most men are sure theirs is the most specialist dick in the universe!

NomoreY_A's avatar

LOL! Well, reckon I can’t argue with that. : ) @Dutchess III

NomoreY_A's avatar

I have to say, though, that some women can be pretty aggressive too. I remember a time when I got mad at my wife, and went to a club. Not to chase women, just to drink a few beers and have myself a pity party, as she used to say. This really beautiful woman came up to my table after a while, called me an arrogant S.O.B., because I hadn’t asked her for a dance, then grabbed my hand an dragged me out on the dance floor. Ended up having a pretty jazzy night, but nothing happened. I was too loyal to my mamma bear. I’m screwy that way.

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