Why is it that the regions of the country notorious for endemic poverty are always dependably in the conservative camp?

Don’t hold your breath,and besides it’s all Obama’s fault you should know that by now.
I don’t get on how the working poor still think the Republicans are for the working slob.
It’s probably due to being uneducated remember ole orange hair said he dearly loves the uneducated now we see why.

That isn’t completely accurate. Endemic white poverty runs conservative, but not endemic poverty of ethnic minorities. New Mexico, black areas of Mississippi and Georgia, Latino areas of California, all run Democrat.

valid point.

You just revealed the inconsistencies of your own logic.

The Democratic party does NOT represent the interests of the working poor, and hasn’t for over 40 years. although they claim to Ad Nauseum as one of their talking points.

Instead of learning from this reality once you notice, you say they are stupid; ” you would think they might catch on”

Those “blue” areas of “endemic poverty” are INDEED run by democrats (Memphis, Chicago) who do not represent their best interests—that’s why they’re in poverty and high crime.

I’m just gonna leave this here – https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_poverty_rate

Right now, there is a nation-wide hiring trend, unemployment is lower than its been in 18 years, and people are getting bonuses. You can say eight years of Obama are finally paying off, but most of us know better.

When the economy is better, everyone prospers. People start hiring Even the working poor prosper.

You will notice that not only are the working poor usually republicans, but the leisure class, the mansionly class, are usually democrats

Why does The Southern Poverty Law Center disdain poor people in the rural South?

It is one of the most anti-Conservative organizations in history. When it was instituted, most rural southern people were Democrat. That was a different time, when democrats actually helped the poor in areas of rural poverty.

Those overly religious godly government Southern Baptists are pretty set in their ways!!

@Yellowdog You just cannnot seem to avoid stepping in it can you? Why on earth would you pick the The Southern Poverty Law Center as conservative hating villains when it is universally apparent that the disdain they evince is for those “poor” conservatives WEARING SHEETS?

@Darth Algar Did you get a look at Colorado on that poverty map?

What in the holy blue fuck does the SPLC have to do with the subject in the first place?

@stanleybmanly

I did, why?

It shows up on my screen as white with not even a hint of pink.

@stanleybmanly you are not confusing Wyoming with Colorado are you? Wyoming has the third lowest rate and is one of the three lighter colored states.

“The Democratic party does NOT represent the interests of the working poor, and hasn’t for over 40 years. although they claim to Ad Nauseum as one of their talking points”.

Sad, but true.

NEITHER of the two big parties represent the working poor, or the working class at all levels, for that matter. Both parties are firmly in the hands of the upper class who are using their moneys, many times through the corporations they either own or are major shareholders in, to buy political influence and control the political discourse.

This one fact is a major reason for the victory of Trump and the reason the Democrats should not count on a victory either in the mid-terms or the next general election. Unless the party finds a way to represent the workers of America they cannot count on their vote any further. It has taken several decades of continued and relentless loss of representation but people have finally come to realize this as truth.

This is not an endorsement of the Republican party. They have not interest in the rights or problems of the workers either being even more controlled by the richest families. .

@stanleybmanly: “you would think they might catch on”

What, specifically, should they “catch on” (to)?

@stanleybmanly Here’s a good bi-partisan article on poverty in the US.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/poverty-101-what-liberals-and-conservatives-can-learn-from-each-other/

@Yellowdog And one for a few conservatives that I agree with.

https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and-inequality/commentary/no-friend-the-poor

@Yellowdog . “lowest unemployment rate in 18 years.”

Hmmm. Anything anomalous happen 18 years ago, that would have started a downward spiral?

Oh yeah. 9/11. I will say, that it was our leader’s reactions, that led to the chaos. But it was the spark. It was the perfect opportunity for Chaney to manipulate GW into making himself far more wealthy, while incidentally starting a chain reaction that would affect billions of lives negatively.

It takes time, to get out of terrible decisions. If you really think Trump is responsible for ALL our growth, you are throwing away my respect for you, on this one…

I honestly don’t know ANYONE, who has done well out of nowhere over the last year or so. Everyone doing well, is doing better. Everyone struggling is not doing better, they’re just adjusting to the lower paying jobs, less chances for growth, and basically a decline in quality of living…

Sorry. NOBODY can tell me, we’re doing better. I live in one of the fastest growing places in the country. Yet, we are mostly struggling still. Granted, we’ve had natural disasters, but so does California. Cali is one of the biggest economies, in the world.

No. The economy is NOT flourishing. I do see better numbers, in places. But I don’t see it on the streets. Not at ALL….

@rojo . You are correct. I honestly feel like I have ZERO representation, in D.C. Absolutely nobody. That’s why I don’t vote…

@notnotnotnot you would think they might catch on to the fact that there’s no percentage in “feeding the mouth that bites you”

@stanleybmanly: ”@notnotnotnot you would think they might catch on to the fact that there’s no percentage in “feeding the mouth that bites you””

They don’t have a choice. Republicans and Democrats are responsible for their poverty. Not voting at all is the most logical choice for those that have been ignored. And the Republicans at least offer something to the poor and working class: a scapegoat. The Republican racist, xenophobic, culture wars provide some explanation (the incorrect one) as to why they are suffering.

Your question appears to be a case of blaming the victim.

While I agree that the present setup guarantees systemic built in poverty, the democrats at least make some pretense at easing the load of those condemned to the bottom. It would seem to me that the logic in selecting the lesser of 2 evils would be readily apparent. Don’t you find it perplexing that those who are being whipped hardest are duped when those nakedly wielding the whip merely shout such nonsense as “the Mexicans did it”?

@stanleybmanly: “While I agree that the present setup guarantees systemic built in poverty, the democrats at least make some pretense at easing the load of those condemned to the bottom. It would seem to me that the logic in selecting the lesser of 2 evils would be readily apparent.”

The “lesser of two evils” approach has resulted in what we have. Of course there are reasons to vote Democrat when facing the choice of the two corporate parties. But this just means that things get worse more slowly. It doesn’t mean that things will change for the poor and working class. Period.

@stanleybmanly: “Don’t you find it perplexing that those who are being whipped hardest are duped when those nakedly wielding the whip merely shout such nonsense as “the Mexicans did it”?”

Not at all. This is how this works. “The Mexicans did it” only exists because it’s a way to control the population. The corporate media and schools do not provide a context for workers to understand that Mexicans, immigrants, African Americans, women, LGBTQ community are not the enemy. The Democrats don’t provide any legitimate analysis on why they are working so hard only to find that they still suffer. The only thing that appeals to the human need for justice is real justice or scapegoating. The Democrats offer neither. They offer more of the same, or a slower reduction in their quality of life.

It doesn’t help to view workers and the poor as bad actors here. They are the victims of a system that is designed to keep them doing exactly what they are doing. If we want people to stop blaming Mexicans (or immigrants, etc), then we need to offer an alternative. Not shame.

While I agree, to an extent. Shame is exactly what some conservatives should feel. Aligning with racist, and /or other hate groups should make one question which side they are on. It should bring up an introspective moment.

@MrGrimm888: “While I agree, to an extent. Shame is exactly what some conservatives should feel. Aligning with racist, and /or other hate groups should make one question which side they are on. It should bring up an introspective moment.”

Of course shame is a valuable tool for racism, etc. What I meant to say is that we shouldn’t be shaming people who understandably don’t vote or vote Republican for doing so.

Calling out racism is critical. I’m encouraged by recent events where typical racism is met with the internet mob and real-life counterparts after being outed online (Aaron Schlossberg, for example).

But we need to stop the narrative that the poor guy who falls for the scapegoating of immigrants and votes Republican is “voting against his interest”. He’s not. His interests (and his life) are ignored, – nobody gives a shit about him. To find meaning in the form of served-up xenophobia is completely human. I have empathy for him – not his views on immigration.

@MrGrimm888 Because all 62 million plus people who voted Trump are racists? BS. There were more reasons to vote for Trump than that, such as the whole ‘draining the swamp’, ‘I’m not a career politician’, ‘MAGA’, etc….

You guys have got to stop calling everyone racists or implying that, it’s simply not true and will do you no favors in 2020 from people like me who vote based on candidate and record as opposed to party politics.

I don’t think all or even most of Trump voters are racist. And of course those who aren’t will never be convinced that they voted for a racist. But the underlying truth is that most of his supporters would do so REGARDLESS. There is apparently no ethical shortcoming, however brazen that will counterbalance their disgust with the status quo.

I believe that a large percentage of Trump supporters are racist. It may be a deeply ingrained, underlying racial bias but it is there. A small minority are openly racist. . And, as @stanleybmanly points out, they voted for and are openly supporting someone who is a racist. Perhaps it is as @KNOWITALL points out, they are supporting the bad in order to get something they perceive as good but it is hard to condone this win at any cost attitude.

My personal opinion is not that Trump is racist but that Trump hates everyone not Trump. He comes off as racist because many of his targets are members of a minority group but if you look at the big picture you see that he treats white people in the same disgusting manner but we do not, for some reason, perceive white on white racism as such.

@rojo So basically he’s an elitist jerk with gaudy taste and will accept campaign money from anyone who will supply it. I’m not disagreeing and I don’t think many Reps I know would disagree.

I’ll disagree on racism, but I don’t know you or where you’re at, as you don’t know me. I just think that’s a pretty horrible thing to call anyone who is not proven to be racist by their words and actions. I get that you may feel that electing him was the racist ‘action’, but I’ll disagree on that 100%.

Of course many support him for other things, like MAGA. You have no idea of the power of those four letters to many of us in flyover country, I guarantee you that was a stroke of genius and may have won him the election.

I agree it’s a waste of time slapping the racist label on a sociopath. It isn’t racism driving the sociopath, but the other way around. EVERYBODY GETS BURNED.

I don’t believe that all Trump supporters are racist. Far from it. I know quite a few Trump supporters personally and they’re a mixed bag. Some are, and always have been, openly racist. Some others have long held some inherent racism that they’ve started to let out openly now that Trump has empowered them. Some I’ve never known to be racist at all. It’s that last group that disappoints me. Disappoints because they look at the man, saw his racism, his bigotry and his cruel-spiritedness on open display and decided “that’s not a problem for me”.

Despite being intrinsically decent, people quickly develop a pronounced “ethical flexibility” in the face of dwindling economic viability. Many people voted for Trump fully cognizant that he is the living endowment of a creature confined to living under bridges in their childhood fairy tales. He himself has said as much, and declared that he can say and do as he chooses without fear of abandonment.

@notnotnotnot “What, specifically, should they “catch on” (to)?”

Well. I make a lot a hour and I would never live in a place that passes laws against homosexuality or a womans right to choose. Or, you know super racist. I guess I will keep pumping taxes into a place that teaches science in high school.

And yeah.. About that. My kids will not go to a school where intelligent design is taught. Or where kids gets guns for Christmas. If you think the confederate flag (slavery) is a thing to be proud of I will not give you my money.

I have a friend that after college got a job in Oklahoma. She even bought a house there. She got the fuck out as soon as she could because the people we pretty fucking horrible to a university professor that had piercings and dreadlocks. And she is a lesbian too. Pretty fucking horrible when a student in your Geology class threatens to rape you until you like dick.

I have a friend in Texas that will get his degree in Computer Science soon. He is planning his exit. Due to guns, the bible, racism, and homophobia. He is shooting for a job at Amazon or Microsoft. To get the fuck out of Texas.

I know, anecdotal.

But I know of no techish person that is thinking. “Alabama.. That sounds great”.

@KNOWITALL . I don’t think all of Trump’s supporters are racist. But yes, I do think voting for him is a racist act. An act that has, and will continue to hurt many minorities, and pretty much everyone.

I boycott Chic-fil-a. I do this because I have a moral problem with my money supporting mega churches. The product is great, as fast food goes, but I won’t sacrifice my ethics, for some small benefits. Voting for someone like Trump, with his and his party’s agenda, is IMO a clear vote against minorities, women, homosexuals, the poor, the unfortunate, multiple entire countries, and the environment of our planet. If you aren’t racist, or don’t care about any of those things, then there’s nothing to be ashamed about.

Stanley, I agree. I think Trump just doesn’t care about anyone but himself.

Oh. And the MAGA slogan. I feel like a lot of older white Americans remember a time when there weren’t minorities living among them. They saw them, and knew some, but weren’t really exposed to their cultures.

I always think of the 1950’s that only exists in Back to the Future. A ridiculously simplified society, where everyone was a white Christian, of about the same earning level. Ignorance was romanticized as innocence.

I think Trump’s supporters want this Christian utopia, which only existed in their minds, to “return.”

Many associate minorities, with crime. The civil rights era of the 60’s was allegedly (I wasn’t alive) a rough time. Black people were being acclimated into American society, and it was (or had to be ) forced, in many cases. The white community was not very receptive. Going back, even into the earlier parts of the 1900’s, white people would riot on the streets if a black boxer beat a white champion. Now some white people act as if only black people riot…

Were I’m going with this, is that white America had a forced integration with the black community. I think it was the right thing to do. But I don’t think some white people liked how it went down.

So. With this false nostalgia for times without minorities, and the forced integration, and the Trump agenda, MAGA is translated to Make America “White” Again.

This isn’t regurgitated left wing craziness. It is my perception through life experiences, and observations. This is what I see when I see people clinging to MAGA. The only thing that’s really changed in America (in the past 60 years or so )is more minorities. Crime rates should be tied to things like Crack/cocaine, and illegal weapons trades, not the increase in brown people.
Terrorism is NOT new, and does not originate solely from Islamic people.
Plus, the picture is clear, white people are the minority in the rest of the world, and will eventually be the minority in America. They would lose some privilege eventually. Christianity would eventually lose power, and influence.

“I think” that many MAGA people are all on board with taking as many brown people out of this country as possible. I think it allows them to tolerate losing their health care, essentially in exchange for the wealthy to get more wealthy. I think it allows them to overlook many terrible things that the administration has/will impose on America, because it might mean a return to those “simple days.”

When you just didn’t see as many minorities, and crime was low….

MAGA is genius. It goes right at Trump’s base’s thought process.

Well. I hope Trump doesn’t succeed in Making America White Again…

Actually, the only illegals being deported are the ones who have committed felonies.

^ “illegals”

ugh…

@notnotnotnot Yes you know, the millions of other immigrants actually follow the legal process.

The path toward becoming a legal US citizen is called naturalization; this process is overseen by the US Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Service (BCIS). There are four paths to legal status for undocumented, or illegal, immigrants.

https://www.thoughtco.com/path-to-legalization-1951617

I’ll discuss authoritarian dehumanizing language when it’s paired with a meaningful discussion about US imperialism. Until then, people who flee their countries – due in large part because of problems the US has caused – are still people when they cross the border. Not “illegals”.

The legalism approach – to argue in terms of what is and isn’t legal, rather than discuss the ethics – is immoral.

Not one American in 1000 has any idea that the bulk of the people swamping our Southern border are driven to do so as a direct result of trade and economic initiatives on the part of the United States. Just as our policies to concentrate and enhance corporate capital rendered it impossible to earn a living in rural America, those policies have been extended to places where a rural existence is all there is, and the results are just what you would expect.

@notnotnotnot Yes, my Vietnamese friends who came here legally are also people. I’ve known lots of legal immigrants, so that doesn’t fly with me as an excuse.

@KNOWITALL . Ever go 36, in a 35mph zone? Congratulations, YOU are an “illegal.” Don’t agree? Then you’re also a hypocrite…

If your basis for calling someone an “illegal,” is because they broke the law, you probably have some introspective thought to do….

@KNOWITALL: “Yes, my Vietnamese friends who came here legally are also people. I’ve known lots of legal immigrants, so that doesn’t fly with me as an excuse.”

“Excuse”? Excuse for what?

You and I are paying for the destruction of peoples’ lives all around the world. When these people flee the mess left behind by US policy, the concept of closed borders is obscene. These people have as much as (or more) of a moral right to immediate and unqualified US citizenship than we do.

No “excuses” here. This is a moral issue. We have blood on our hands.

It takes money, and connections, to immigrate to the US. Many Americans would not qualify for legal immigration into the US…

@MrGrimm888 Dumbest argument ever. And I’m an elected official, no criminal record or anything, trust me.

@notnotnotnot Immediate and unqualified?....no way in hell. Try to sneak into Iran and see what happens.

Cuz we knowed them nice Republican fellers are gonna make shore we got our guns, and know true Amercans don’t need no socialist health care.

Yeah,and as long as they get their mighty tax breaks,you can bet they will share their wealth with the less fortunate middle class.
Hell they might even increase the lower class wages up a penny or two,that is if there is any left after topping up their off shore accounts.

@KNOWITALL

Just because you have no criminal record doesn’t mean you haven’t broken the law. These are two very distinct things. And just because you’re an elected official doesn’t mean you haven’t broken the law ether. Christ, we have a US Representative from California who use to run an auto theft racket and has been convicted of carry an unregistered firearm.

@KNOWITALL . I’m not sure I understand the relevance of that last statement either. Could you please clarify?

@MrGrimm888 You mean the immediate and unqualified? I don’t believe anyone deserves that. We have rules in place for a reason. If that’s not what you meant, please let me know.

I get the rules. And yes, it is important to screen who’s coming in, and if they’re a potential threat. I just see most as people trying to improve their lives. I see “that” as a right all humans have.

Most illegal’s only crime, is coming in without vetting.

I feel that if you’ve lived here for a while, and you’re contributing, you’re welcome here. And, as I’ve said before, I feel that diversity is an asset.

If someone is willing to go through whatever it takes to get here, legally or illegally, I support them. Going by the rules is great. I understand life though. Sometimes, you have to circumvent certain laws. Especially if you are looking out for your family.

Just my opinion.

But see, you’re one of the only people that admit that it’s important to screen them. That’s a HUGE deal and is all the Reps are asking. Legal immigration is fine, illegal immigration is not. It’s not a difficult concept, which is why talking to liberals about this subject is so frustrating.

“If you’ve been here awhile and are contributing, you’re welcome.”
I disagree. I think if that statement is true, you should do everything in your power to get legal.
In 2016 we had 1.4 million immigrants come to the US, that’s a lot of people to give a free pass to, legally.

“If someone is willing to go through whatever it takes to get here, legally or illegally, I support them.”
As a former officer, I can’t believe you would believe that. You know some people are criminals, using this broken system for drugs or human trafficking, etc…

I firmly believe your heart is in the right place, but giving 1.4 million people the benefit of the doubt is not fair to the rest of us, or the legal immigrants that went through a lot of education and financial strain, to do it the legal way. Not just for themselves, but for THEIR children.

For some reason, you seem to give a free pass to people south of the border, but have you researched the circumstances in the rest of the world? Is a certain group of people granted an exception to the rules while the rest of the world has to follow procedure? I don’t understand your rationale on this.

“You know some people are criminals.” Of course. But there are degrees. If you failed to signal while turning into your driveway, congratulations on your criminal past. It’s my opinion that the vast majority of illegal immigrants are just normal people. Pointing out that some are criminals as a reason to punish them all, is hypocritical. We have the highest amount of our population incarcerated, of all developed nations. Using the logic that having a sizeable criminal percentage deserves punishing the whole population puts the US in worse light than the illegals. How would you like to be lumped in with the worst of our society? You’re essentially equating a majority of good people with their anomalous minority.
Conservative rhetoric suggests that a large portion of these immigrants are bad people. Although this is unverifiable, I find that concept ridiculous. And honestly, offensive.

Thereis still plenty of human trafficking, and drug smuggling being done by legal residents. I haven’t heard from the conservatives about stopping that. Is it not an issue, because they are “legal? ” Sounds more like conservatives are targeting brown immigrants, to me. And that’s what’s really going on.

Same with the travel ban. Christianity is certainly not without it’s extremists, but conservatives target brown people again. The excuses are thinly veiled.

“If you think that statement is true, then you should do everything in your power to get legal.” I don’t think you understand what it’s like to be an “illegal.” I’ve worked with them when I was a LEO. They live in constant fear of being deported. They don’t report crimes, and are taken advantage of by our “legal” criminals a LOT. They carry cash because they don’t have bank accounts. Thieves know this, and target them because they know there won’t be police involved. These people work VERY hard, and frequently under conditions that no American would endure. They get robbed, beaten, raped, killed etc. And the only time you hear about it, is when they are found dead. They are an oppressed population living within the “greatest country.” Most are far to afraid to try to become “legal.” If they were afraid before Trump, they must be terrified now. No. If they want to survive, the last thing they’re going to do is seek legal citizenship…

As for your figure of 1.4 million immigrants. Did you mean legal? Quantifying the illegals would be impossible.

Keep in mind that these people contribute to our economy, even if they are illegals. They still pay sales tax, and if it were easier for them to become legal, we could get income tax (where applicable.)

“A certain group of people granted an exception to the rules.” That’s just it. They aren’t a group. They’re a very diverse range of people. Many fleeing civil war, or unsafe conditions. They have nowhere else to go. If they want a future, they migrate here. I PROMISE you that if most could safely stay in their homelands, they would.

@MrGrimm888 Of course I don’t understand what it’s like to be an ‘illegal’. When I went to Mexico it was on a resort, but I did make friends there, I did ask to be taken by the driver to the less touristy areas, I did see people living in a jungle without running water or electricity, and I did get greeted with machine guns when the plan landed. A friend there told me that he is blessed to work at the resort to help his family, and explained a bit about his life. I watched our driver pay off the police at the checkpoints. I left the resort and went to the grocery store, the marketplace, and talked to people. I’m not heartless, I’m actually very sensitive and compassionate.

Anyway, we aren’t going to change each other’s mind, but thank you for being respectful in your discourse. :)

^I don’t perceive you as being without compassion, or sensitivity. I just wish you thought about that, in the voting booth. As I’ve stated, I don’t vote. I contributed to, what I consider a dumpster fire, as well…

Thank you ma’am, for tolerating my soap box diatribe…

@MrGrimm888 But I do have compassion in the voting booth, that’s why I vote for the candidate and not the party.

I guess the difference is that my compassion is for the babies who will never be born and never did a thing wrong. My compassion is for our vets who Democrats spit on decades ago and are still dying for lack of care. We just care about different things, but we both care, and that gives me hope.

You should vote before that’s taken away from us, too. :) See, it’s all YOUR fault Trump got Florida! haha

I’m a SC guy. My state has been red, since my birth. I can’t speak for Florida. I just couldn’t believe the Latino support for Trump… Uugh. No. It’s not lost on me that I have some responsibilityfor Trump being elected. He did lose the popular vote though, so it probably wouldn’t have mattered. I couldn’t pull the trigger for Hillary, and I knew a Bernie vote would simply water down whom I assumed would win, Hillary. I think many non-voters ,last time just assumed Hillary would win. Or more succinctly, that there was NO way our country had enough terrible people to elect Trump.

You’re correct of course, we both care, and both act in different ways to try to help.
I’m afraid that DAlgar was correct. There’s little chance that abortions will be banned. But you do have the power to help others, who are alive, and suffering. Choose your battle… That’s the best we can do….

@MrGrimm888 If Pence gets into office in 2020, you may be surprised. Of course if we don’t have to pick from two duds, maybe we can entice you into voting! :)

And tbh, you nailed it, there were a lot of us that just couldn’t vote Hillary, allowing him to win, so don’t feel too bad. Plus, if you lived where I lived, he played the Patriot card really well, I’ll give him that.

After Trump’s election, nothing would surprise me.

I’ve never voted. I feel like it’s just an illusion of control, at the presidential level. A manipulation, proven correct by the EC putting Don in office. Somewhat validating my opinion that “the Man” decides who the POTUS is. Well. “The Man” got 83% of the money from the recent tax cut. (Read an article recently, that stated that 83% of the money goes to the top 1%.) Sorry no link. I can’t link on my mobile, so feel free to dispute the numbers…

It’s a “political statement.” Not voting. I feel it’s a powerful thing. I am, again, admittedly remorseful that I didn’t stop Trump, as I imagine many people are. My bad… I destroyed the world….

Ugh. If you do not vote then you have no room to complain about the governance you get. Responsible, informed voting is the most basic obligation of citizenship. One that far too many shrug off or don’t take seriously enough.

^I understand/respect your point of view. I just don’t agree. Especially when the only reasonable candidates are usually just 2 people, whom I don’t care for… With Hillary, and Trump, I just hated both. Am I supposed to throw the vote away, by writing someone in?
Or should I vote for a candidate that I don’t want running our country?

Realistically you know there are going to be two viable candidates. You look at the policies and positions of the two then vote for the one who will do the most good in accordance with your world view, even if it’s someone you might not personally like. Personally, the president needn’t be someone I like as long as they can get the shit done.

Forgive me. When I said “like,” I meant as a candidate. I also don’t care much about personality, versus performance.

But what you say, is a big rewason why I don’t vote. Picking the lesser of two evils, is not my idea of a healthy democracy. For the majority of my life, it’s tweedle dee, or tweedle dumb. And both are essentially working on improving the lives of the wealthy. Even if they say different.

If you’re waiting for your ideal candidate he/she is never going to arrive. Politics is pragmatism, not idealism. Progressives keep losing ground because they keep waiting for their perfect candidate to come along and will not vote for anyone who does not meet this lofty standard.

I disagree. Progressives usually feel compelled to accept the forced pragmatism of choosing the lesser evil.

@Darth_Algar . I’m fairly certain that “my” ideal candidate doesn’t exist. Most candidates aren’t even close. If I would be voting for someone to represent my interests, why give power to others who don’t?

The Democrats are the closest to my interests. But they are still pretty far off, and show no real direction or leadership. If they would at least put up a fight against the GOP, they would get my attention. They seem like they are trying to let the Republican party show the country how terrible they are, and then people will vote for them. Well. That’s not good enough for me. Being less shitty than the worst people, will not be rewarded with my vote.

To me the simplest way of looking at the current 2 party setup is to realize that Democrats are in the same business as the Republicans. That is as individuals they are predictably in the business of seeing to their own interests. Sadly this translates to looking out for the well-heeled, the class that defines virtually every successful politician on the national stage. The Democrats have been getting by with the Republicans more or less doing the “dirty work” for them while Democrats vigorously push and defend social matters as long as they minimize interference with the rich getting richer. The problem with adherence to this path, is that the drainage of wealth from the formerly vast middle to the benefit of the top (the class including politicians) is NOW the paramount social issue, though all classes are predictably slow to appreciate it.

@Darth_Algar says “You look at the policies and positions of the two then vote for the one who will do the most good in accordance with your world view, even if it’s someone you might not personally like”

But you’re one of the people here who are harshest about Trump voters?! At least you have been with me about it. haha

I’ve heard multiple Trump voters say that they held their noses, when voting for him. Is that really what a democracy should be, swallow the least jagged pill?

@MrGrimm888 I mean, that’s what we have right now, so I guess so. Kind of like the Electoral College, people don’t like it but I’m not hearing millions of calls for change.

That’s what bothers me the most, we’re all eating each other alive, pointing fingers for him being President, being hateful to the other party, etc….when we should all pull together and get these things CHANGED! The government is supposed to be by the people for the people, not the top 10% to run and us plebs to sit and accept. If it’s unacceptable, let’s change it! #revolution (haha)

@KNOWITALL -“But you’re one of the people here who are harshest about Trump voters?! ”

Yes. Since Trump had no actual policies and, nearly a year and a half into his term, still doesn’t. And because I have yet to encounter a Trump voter who voted for him for what he was, but rather for what he wasn’t. Empty slogans do not a platform make.

But,but @Darth_Algar ole orange hair says it like it is, aint that enough??

@KNOWITALL . You know what’s strange, to me, is that people are OK with this bullshit.

WTF?

I honestly don’t know how to fix it. But I think the system is broken. Well. I thought that before Trump. Now, I think one third of America, is broken.

I have to say, that hearing from this pond’s conservative jellies, gives me more hope, than the Trumpers that I was forced to converse with ,when I worked a gun counter. I’m trying to find some silver linings…..

@MrGrimm888 It’s getting to the point that Trump supporters are having a harder and harder time defending him. It was only a matter of time.

We fix it by getting into politics and positions of power, and getting the older folks out and letting modern thinking prevail in our systems.

(When I first ran, I basically ran on that and won. People don’t want the older white guys anymore.)

@stanleybmanly abortion, the content of sexual health education, etc.