Social Question

Demosthenes's avatar

Who do you think is behind the bomb threats today?

Asked by Demosthenes (10359points) October 24th, 2018

Crude bombs and mysterious packages were sent to notable Democratic figures recently, including Obama, CNN, Hillary, George Soros, and Wasserman-Schultz. None of the bombs detonated.

Who do you think is behind it?

I know we don’t have any official word out yet, so this thread is also to post that word when we get it.

No matter who’s behind it, it’s sad that we’re now one of those countries that has violence around elections. Or at least attempted violence.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

147 Answers

KNOWITALL's avatar

People like this:

A New York man was arrested in August for threatening two House Republican leaders; another New York man was arrested last week for threatening GOP senators over Kavanaugh’s nomination. In April, a California man pleaded guilty to threatening to kill Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Calif.). And a Florida man was arrested this month for posting threats on Facebook against Democrats and Republicans who opposed Kavanaugh. Earlier this month, a far-right group called the Proud Boys attacked left-wing protesters outside an Oct. 12 Republican party event in Manhattan. New York police have since arrested several members of the group.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/24/bomb-sent-bill-hillary-clintons-home-new-york-city-suburb/?utm_term=.44fe9d336114

josie's avatar

Just one more lunatic in a world gone increasingly crazy.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Look at the targets (Clinton, Obama, Soros, and CNN).

Who badmouths them, and shouts “Lock Her Up”, and doesn’t think Obama was a legal president? And who castigates Soros because he is Jewish and left-wing? The right wing.

The obvious answer is that the explosives came from the Right wing, possibly a militia, but more likely a guy in a garage.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What he ^^^^ said.

rebbel's avatar

We don’t know, we can’t know, until the perpetrator(s) gets caught.
Speculating, I believe, is only going to put oil on the already strong tensions, and feelings of hate for both opposing parties.
Could be left, could be right, could be domestic, could be foreign.
But we simply don’t know yet.

kritiper's avatar

Who else?? Mitch McConnell.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I bet it was one of her emails.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

No-No @Dutchess_III it came from the servers.

ucme's avatar

Kirk Douglas

JLeslie's avatar

Another angry crazy person. It’s horrific like all other death threats, bombs, mass shootings, hijackings, ugh what else? I can’t stand it.

RedDeerGuy1's avatar

CNN said that it was a man. Women are capable of being crazy too.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Much more likely to be a man.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Someone who “listens” to Trump’s preeching of hatred , and intolerance.

The bombs were said to be crude, but functional. I’m thinking someone ex-military. Maybe with IED experience from one of our conflicts in the middle east.

Probably a white male.

They said there was black powder in the.bombs. Farmers, would have access to stuff like that, as would certain gun store owners.

I also heard there was white powder. I doubt it’s actually anthrax…

I suppose there will be Trumpers that will claim it’s a conspiracy by the left… I find that extremely unlikely.

I can’t imagine that the bomber actually thought any would make it to their intended targets. If so, I expect the authorities will find the guy quickly.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Mike Pence hasn’t seen lately and has been awfully quiet ! j.k.

Yellowdog's avatar

Iceland or Canada

seawulf575's avatar

If they don’t catch someone quickly, and it is actually a viable suspect, it is a scam. The bombs were extremely crude with a very low chance of success at their supposed targets. Someone that inept will have left tons of clues as to who they are. If they can’t find who did it..if there are no clues, then it is a scam. A sad and pitiful scam, but a scam.

Patty_Melt's avatar

DNC, of course.
Bombs that don’t detonate, a bit like a soldier shooting himself in the foot to go home. Looks bad, but not as risky as actually facing things.

seawulf575's avatar

I do think this shows that we need stronger pipe control in this country.

mazingerz88's avatar

What happens when deplorables put a despicable human who drops nothing but filthy fecal bombs from his mouth in the WH.

Pandora's avatar

Provided this isn’t the work of some nut case or white nationalist, KKK, or Natzi, I think it may be a foreign government. I’ve been thinking who has the most to gain from this. Neither party really does. Because once it is found out who it was, then there will be a big backlash. So who would stand to gain? A foreign power who wants to help our nation split even further. I’m thinking Russia. Russia didn’t help Trump because they liked him for the job. Russia help Trump because they understood what a wrecking ball he would be to our nation. No need to bomb us, when we could simply self destruct. China has too much money invested in us and as for North Korea, I think they really don’t care about us, one way or another. The nut cases would’ve sent bombs that would blow up. So Russia still makes the most sense. They didn’t really need to hurt someone because that would bring the weight of the world upon them. What they wanted to do was just put a sledge hammer into the crack in our society.
Also, Putin aske Bolton the following. “Has Your Eagle Already Eaten All The Olives Leaving Only The Arrows” I think he is referring to the division in our country.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What’s up with one sent to Robert Deniro?

chyna's avatar

De Niro and Trump don’t get along.

rebbel's avatar

“Also, Putin aske Bolton the following. “Has Your Eagle Already Eaten All The Olives Leaving Only The Arrows” I think he is referring to the division in our country.”
@Pandora That was referring to Trump saying he is to step out off the INF Treaty.
The eaten olives being peace, the remaining arrows being weapons.

kritiper's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Why would farmers have more access to black/gun powder than others? There are safer alternatives when removing stumps.

kritiper's avatar

Dr. Phibes.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@kritiper . I can’t remember what, but I think farmers have a specific document that allows them to buy things that could be used as bomb making materials. Certain fertilizers, and as you mentioned stump removal explosives, are easier to acquire by farmers.
Safer alternatives? Sure.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Stump removal is usually with TNT or dynamite not black powder. Black powder is for muskets and other antique guns.

flutherother's avatar

We don’t know who sent the bombs but we know who they were sent to;

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
Former President Barack Obama
Former CIA Director John Brennan, care of CNN
Former Attorney General Eric Holder
California Democratic Congresswoman Maxine Waters
Liberal philanthropist and financier George Soros (on Monday)
Actor and Trump critic Robert de Niro

I think Trump has made provocative statements about all these Americans. This is obviously something the president should not be doing as it inflames public opinion and encourages violence but it has been Trump’s style from the beginning.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Someone you thinks they are on a mission for God/Trump and is missing from a mental asylum.

SergeantQueen's avatar

Some dumbass extremist on the Right wing who doesn’t show the beliefs of everyone else on the Right wing.
Just like the same dumbass who sent ricin to Republicans doesn’t incompass all the Liberal beliefs.

SergeantQueen's avatar

People on the right wing are not to blame for this because most of the people on the right wing wouldn’t do this. It’s one person not the whole party

gondwanalon's avatar

Could be Democrats trying to influence the election. Look at the so called “pipe bombs”. None of them worked. They are dummy bombs designed to fool dummies.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

It is the “I’m not responsible for the bomb maker” guy in the WH that thinks it is okay to body slam a reporter. and “act out” to anything you don’t agree with. The lunatic fringe has a leader in the WH.

The left-wingers are to busy trying make sure the Congress doesn’t take away; SS, Medicare and public education.

Probably all wet in his drawers when heard they cut-up Jamal Khashoggi .

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Farmers (here) don’t get a special paper, anyone here can buy black powder and fertilizer. The farmers wife sitting next to me wanted to make sure you knew that lol

Demosthenes's avatar

@gondwanalon Yes, I considered that too. We’re talking like 10 bombs now being sent and not a single one went off. It didn’t even go off and destroy a mailbox. It’s looking almost like they were designed not to go off. Which makes this whole thing look like a ruse. I’m not arguing that the DNC is behind it, but the person behind it (who may very well be a lone crazy person) may be a Democratic sympathizer.

Dutchess_III's avatar

McVay didn’t have any special papers to buy the stuff he used in the OK bombing. He just came on over to Kansas and went to a co-op here.

seawulf575's avatar

There is another angle no one is really has discussed. As soon as this happened, two things immediately happened. Repubs up and down the line denounced actions such as this, and the Dems/liberals started using it as political ammunition. Why the two different reactions? The Dems and the media immediately started trying to blame Trump, even as he was denouncing the actions. Newsweek tried to stretch the whole thing to blame DeSantis in Florida. The immediate politicization makes me believe even more that it was a ploy by the Dems.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 You are a “one trick pony”

- – seawulf sez, ‘It’s obvious the Dem’s did it’

SMH

Dutchess_III's avatar

There is really no telling.
1) could be a crazy republican
2) could be a crazy democrat trying to make the republicans look bad
3) Trump could have ordered the hits. He has made it clear in the past he doesn’t have a problem resorting to violence against those who disagree with him.

I think they’ll catch them soon enough, then we’ll know.

mazingerz88's avatar

Just mind-boggling all this equating of trump and his worshippers evil with “evil efforts” of Democrats to fight back. Only fools would buy that crap.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I did say black powder. As usual, I should have been more specific. A “black powdery substance.” That doesn’t mean that I thought it was just black powder. Although, “black powder,” is not a toy…

In my state, it’s hard to legally sell it, as it’s hard to legally store.

@KNOWITALL . Timothy McVeigh used a mix of fertilizers, and other ingredients, to make the bomb used in the OKC bombing. Shortly thereafter, many states made it harder to acquire through different means. A product doesn’t have to be an explosive, by itself, to be monitored/restricted.

The premise that it has been orchestrated by the DNC, is laughable, at best.

Honestly, this whole situation brings up an excellent question, to me. If there are SO many MILLIONS of people conspiring against Trump, why hasn’t someone just tried to kill him?..

You would think that with most of the world, and the FBI, and CIA all aligned against him, they could just take him out…

Latest news points to Florida, as a possible source of the bombs… Powder was determined to not be anthrax…

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . There is good reason to “use” this politically. Trump’s public rhetoric has empowered many bad people, and he has openly called for and supported violence against his perceived enemies before.

Any ammunition being used politically, came straight from Don’s stupid mouth. If you want to criticize something, criticize your boy, for being such a person.

You know good and well, that it’s likely a person who Trump got all heated up, that’s doing this. Pretending otherwise, is a new low for you. Not a surprise, as I fortold this in my first response. But it’s low. Real low….

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 and the Dems and the media have used equally public rhetoric to empower many bad people and have openly called for and supported violence against their perceived enemies. Want to make a list of which has caused more ACTUAL upheaval and attacks? For all the claims that Trump incites people, how many conservatives have actually gone out and attacked or harassed liberals? The last time I saw ANYTHING from conservatives was when they harassed Pelosi in CA. And that wasn’t in response to Trump, it was in response to all the harassment the Dems have perpetrated on conservatives and Republicans.
The deceptive tale of Trump’s rhetoric is growing really thin. If someone sneezes and he says “bless you” the media goes crazy and the fools that follow and believe everything the media says starts in about how horrible Trump is. For all the claims, there is really very little that can be said to be inciteful that he has ever said.

Patty_Melt's avatar

If it were someone goaded to anger, or revenge, those suckers would have gone off and taken out somebody.
Whoever is responsible obviously never meant them to do any physical harm.
Conservatives are not the sort to waste resources. When they make a bomb, by gosh, it blows up.
No, this was clearly done by someone intending the blame to go a particular direction without any actual destruction.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Democrats did say they denounce actions like these bombs, and yes they also said that Trump is part of the problem, For instance, Mika on Morning Joe took a step back (finally) and said that she maybe is part of the problem and that we as a country need to stop with the hate mongering (I don’t tendmbering her exact words) calling in everyone to do the right thing. No more harassing people in restaurants, no more violent talk, calling for both sides to cool down.

@SergeantQueen People on the right wing are not to blame for this because most of the people on the right wing wouldn’t do this. It’s one person not the whole party I just hope the Republican Party can apply that logic to Muslims and Hispanics and other groups.

chyna's avatar

@Patty_melt. I tend to agree with you that it was done to throw blame.
What concerns me most though, is that I hope the people checking out the bombs don’t get complacent thinking they won’t detonate because they haven’t in the past. Bomb maker could step up his game at any moment.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie The first ones to denounce this particular action were the Repubs. They slammed whomever was responsible, called for actions like this to stop, have promised to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, and have gotten the FBI to start an investigation. Meanwhile, Dems blame Trump’s “rhetoric” as the source of the problem. Maxine Waters is screaming again that Trump needs to step up and own this as the cause. Newsweek ran an article the next day (after the bombs were found) blaming DeSantis in FL because he made a comment about how he hoped Hillary continued to campaign for his opponent because her support is the kiss of death for his campaign. They actually tried tying that comment to him inciting someone to make bombs and send them out.
Now, let’s back up and look a little deeper at how Dems denounce violence. They support MS-13…not denounce them. They had to be forced into speaking out against the guy that shot up the GOP during the softball game. They never did come out against the guy that sent white powder with a threatening letter to Trump Jr. They publicly call for activist groups to harass all Repubs. They support the actions of Antifa…a group that has been named as a domestic terrorist organization. The list goes on and on. And the liberal media supports these claims/actions right down the line.
So now tell me…which is the side is the dangerous and divisive side in this? Which acts more like animals? And how is this Trump’s fault?

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna exactly. Want to bet that bombs start getting sent to Repubs in “retaliation”?

chyna's avatar

I do realize this is not CSI and can’t be solved in an hour, but where is the security footage? Surely someone has video of who delivered these packages because not all went through the post office.

seawulf575's avatar

And I’m sorry…anyone that truly believes you can send pipe bombs to former presidents and other high ranking politicians and expect them to get there isn’t very bright. Not to mention the bombs themselves were VERY low tech. You know that anyone that exhibits that level of incompetence has left a trail a mile long for the FBI to follow. That is why my initial comment was that if they don’t catch whoever this is immediately, it is a scam. Someone was that incompetent but left absolutely no trail? I don’t buy it.

chyna's avatar

^Agreed. OMG! I just agreed with @seawulf575. There’s a first time for everything.

mazingerz88's avatar

Democrats supporting MS13? LOL Such a BS!

A man who was suppose to lead and be President is actually a vile, vain, narcissistic and corrupt thug. He is present day Hitler. Defense of this douche is evil.

Demosthenes's avatar

They’ve arrested someone, according to CNN breaking news. Stay tuned :)

MrGrimm888's avatar

IMO. Saying that the DNC is responsible, is like when people say that the Bush administration was responsible for 9/11. I realize that history has stranger occurrences, but it’s a huge stretch, and speaks volumes to the success of the GOP and Trump, to invalidate any damaging news, and make themselves out to be the victims.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna scary, isn’t it? ;-)

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 or it could speak volumes about the past behavior by the DNC and their propaganda wing (MSM)

chyna's avatar

Just another nut job. 56 year old in Florida that drove a van with Trump stickers. Had an arrest record.

Dutchess_III's avatar

From this source ”...the President complained on Twitter that the news media was busy reporting on ”‘Bomb’ stuff” and not politics.” What a total asshat.

Mariah's avatar

Arrest was made.

“Sayoc’s white van, which had pictures of Trump and the presidential seal plastered to the windows, was seized by the officials and hauled off to a secure facility…Sayoc is a registered Republican who had previously lived in North Carolina, New Jersey, Michigan, and Brooklyn, New York, according to records.”

What a surprise – not a false flag or some other lunatic conspiracy bullshit, just a right wing nutjob.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Right? Shocking.

KNOWITALL's avatar

It’s interesting how the legal system just lets these people go free.

“A former Florida store manager with a history of arrests, including one for a 2002 bomb threat, has been identified as a suspect in the suspicious mail bombings targeting prominent Democrats and vocal critics of President Trump.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/suspect-in-letter-bombs-a-history-of-arrests-and-a-prior-bomb-threat-1540572060?mod=e2tw

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s called “due process” @KNOWITALL. Was he actually found guilty of the 2002 bomb threat? What is the whole story?

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Give be a break. They don’t support MS-13 WTH are you talking about?! You can’t try to put republicans on a pedestal right now, that’s ridiculous. Trump has been talking about being able to shoot people and get away with it, and encouraging assaulting people, and the list goes on. Most republicans have stood by silent with all the crazy stuff he says. By stating this I am NOT defending the part of the left that has been horrible too, I am just saying don’t hold up the right wing like they are guilty of nothing antagonist and not part of the problem in the country. You can’t be that blind to what they do.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulft575 . Or…. You’re a hypocrite… Like ALL Trumpers…

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The conservatives are not violent??
Good grief that’s why that cow boy sucker punched that protestor being lead out of a Trump rally by security.
Never saw the Democrats packing sidearms to their rallies, it was all over our news that the Republicans did.
Trump himself said he would pay the legal bills if anyone wanted to beat up any protestors,that’s just peace and love.
Trump throws more insults than any President I have ever heard,but that’s just peace and love?
The Republicans can throw insults and that’s just telling it like it is, if the Democrats say anything that the conservatives don’t like they claim it’s all hate.
And the Republicans are now stating the debt doesn’t matter, the real problem is those evil entitlement programs, Social security, health care , and meds-caid, yup those conservatives are all peace and love.
Guess the poor, and middle class can just go die, but vote republican before you do, after all it’s all just about peace and love.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And claiming these bomb scares had to come from the Democrats themselves just to try and make the Republicans look bad?
WOW! how many BBQ bullshit on a buns did you eat?

Mariah's avatar

While campaigning, Trump once implied that one of his followers should shoot Hillary Clinton if she won.

Just last week he complimented a Congressman for violently bodyslamming a journalist.

He offered to pay the legal fees of any of his supporters who beat up protesters at his rallies.

Yesterday he blames CNN for inspiring violence and some of you in this very thread can’t even fathom that it could possibly have been one of his followers to pull this shit.

Today it comes out it was indeed a right wing nut responsible, and now Trump’s talking about how we need unity.

Amazing.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That’s because they are all about peace and love, it’s the democrats that are the hate mongers, just don’t expect universal health care or even social security, because those are bad.

rebbel's avatar

Believe me @Mariah, some of them will spin it to be, somehow, a Democrat(ic) attacker.

ucme's avatar

Still reckon Kirk was the mastermind behind this, I mean…he has nowt to lose.

Demosthenes's avatar

@rebbel Yeah, you already have people on Breitbart claiming all those stickers were put on that van overnight by a Democratic operative. The conspiracy theories never end.

Demosthenes's avatar

I mean, reading Breitbart comments is the equivalent of repeatedly bashing yourself in the head with an anvil until your brains spill out, but yes, I saw that in a comments section. People are going to believe what they want; facts have no effect on them.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Of course they were put on by the democrats, the republicans would never do such a thing remember they are all about peace and love, oh and just let the poor die there are more where they came from anyways.

Mariah's avatar

How’re they going to explain the videos of the guy at Trump rallies wearing a MAGA hat and his 1000+ pro-Trump tweets dating back years? lmao

Dutchess_III's avatar

And the bomb threats to others going back years and years?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Don’t worry they will spin that to, and their loyal base will believe it as well.
Remember facts mean nothing to loyal Trumpers.

flutherother's avatar

Some of them may begin to see the danger in supporting Trump and will vote the other way. That is our only hope.

ragingloli's avatar

Youtube is currently full of videos by right wingers, proclaiming that the #magabomber is an actor, hired by the democrats.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

pathic @ragingloli

Their leader was creaming in his jeans that someone was sending bombs to biggest enemies.

… he was an actor at all the rallies and an arrest history for years.

… a “proud ” member of the GOP for years.

… the GOP right wingers are going not “bomber”, he’s a DNC actor..

SMH

seawulf575's avatar

As discussed…anyone that believed those bombs were good and would reach their targets was such an idiot he would get caught quickly. To all you that were questioning…that means it was not a scam. It was just an idiot. Oh! and please remember that Trump, Pence, and all the rest of the Repubs immediately denounced this action.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

But Trum phas repeated said he’d make bail for the right wingers that oppose the Dems.

Duh I know who the Nutter is ! ! !

MrGrimm888's avatar

According to several articles, he had to park his van out of sight, at his work. Because of the stickers. So much for an overnight application of stickers by the DNC.

I cannot see a plausible way to deny that Trump didn’t agitate this man into action.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I see him being invited to WH.

Just saying !

Stache's avatar

There’s a report saying there’s surveillance video from earlier this morning of Anderson Cooper putting stickers on the van before it was seized.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 See? That’s where we disagree. Claiming that Trump agitated this guy into action puts an awful lot onto Trump. If you truly believe that Trump’s speeches were enough to cause this kind of action, the you have to agree that Hillary, Obama, Maxine, Pelosi, Booker, etc are all responsible for Antifa actions, the shooting by James Hodgkinson, the guy that sent white powder to Donald Jr with the threatening letter, the neighbor that beat Rand Paul…and many, many more. After all what you are saying is that people react to what their political leaders say, right? Wellllllllll…......?
Now…I tend to look at some of those (most actually) as people that have a screw loose. That doesn’t mean that I don’t think the Dem leadership isn’t trying to incite violence, but it does mean that not all of these cases are their responsibility.

chyna's avatar

I have to correct you here. I knew the good feeling I had about you wouldn’t last.
There were many fights at Trump rallies before he was elected and Trumpsaid he would post bail.
The neighbor that attacked Rand Paul was pissed because Rand was throwing grass clippings in his yard. That one was not politically motivated at all.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna Thank you…I’m starting to feel normal again! Whew!

But go back to the fights at Trump rallies. Many were instigated by Dem protesters that were paid to go cause problems. Notice how Hillary didn’t denounce that action? But you will hold Trump accountable for saying he would post bail if his supporters fought back?
As for the Rand Paul attack, there is dispute as to what the cause was about. There were initial stories that came out (all in liberal media outlets) that claimed “unnamed neighbors” said it was all about yard waste. Boucher’s (the assailant) lawyer quickly confirmed that. But then, other outlets (conservative) came out with interviews with other neighbors that didn’t mind being named that said that story was a crock.
Then you get to this article:

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/22/politics/rand-paul-kelley-paul-mystery/index.html

It spells out all of this. And it states that Boucher was an avid Anti-Trumper, Anti-GOPer, that called for Trump’s impeachment and said Mueller needed to “fry Trump’s gonads”. Now correct me if I’m wrong…isn’t that hate speech? Isn’t it urging violence? Where was Hillary’s or the DNC denouncement of that?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Trump is a cancer on this country. Many unstable people are following his lead, his suggestions.

seawulf575's avatar

And there are even more following the suggestions of violence by the DNC. What I am trying to say is that you can’t, with any form of justification, claim Trump incites violence while you ignore the calls for violence by the Dems. And you can’t claim Trump has to own nut jobs like this one (that sent the “bombs”) without calling for the Dem leadership to own all the violence perpetrated by their adherents, including all the nut jobs. Trump came out immediately and denounced the actions of this nut job. Dems don’t do that. In fact, they (or their organized thugs) often have instigators bussed in to cause problems.

ragingloli's avatar

The Orangutan’s response was complaining about the media’s reporting on the “bomb” thing (yes, he put “bomb” in quotes) was influencing the elections, whining, wrongly, that he is the one that gets attacked the most, and then blaming the media for the bombing attempts, when it was his demagogery that directly radicalised the nutter.
And have you seen his van?
The fact you still refuse to accept responsibility for it, and instead choose to resort back to your tried and true methods of deflect and deny (you still putting bombs in quotes is the perfect example) just shows the level of scumbaggery that you love to inhabit and refuse to leave.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . I think you’re being deliberately obtuse. You cannot compare Trump’s rhetoric to any liberal politician.

Do you expect the dems to address every reaction to the Trump administration by our nation?
If you have ever seen Obama calling for violence against the GOP, I need a source. As mentioned above, and as you must know, Trump habitually insights violence, and paints targets on people’s backs.

As is normally the case with Trump, of he would just shut his stupid mouth he wouldn’t be so vulnerable to scrutiny. This is his bed, he’s going to have to lay in it.

You do yourself, and other Trumpers, a great disservice with you’re pathetic attempts at deflection with this. This has become a pattern since Trump took office. His rhetoric has empowered people to openly display their bigotry, hate, and intolerance. From kids, to adults. This bomber was a direct result of this. Trump legitimized this guy’s hate, and gave him targets for his anger. Yes. This guy was already on an edge. Trump pushed him over.

I don’t see a big difference between Trump’s rhetoric, and that of a terrorist organization calling for violence against westerners.

rebbel's avatar

@MrGrimm888 I guess you conveniently have forgotten the uproar the last one and a half year over all those times pipe bombs were sent by Democrat supporters to Republican power figures?
Well?

Ah, yeah, my bad, there weren’t…..

MrGrimm888's avatar

Well. That one guy did shoot up that softball game. The difference? No liberal politicians asked him to…

Dutchess_III's avatar

When were pipe bombs sent to Republican power figures? I hadn’t heard of that @rebbel.

rebbel's avatar

@Dutchess_III
Ah, yeah, my bad, there weren’t (sent any) …..

Dutchess_III's avatar

What? I didn’t say that. I said I hadn’t heard of that. I assumed you’d send me some information about it.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^He was being sarcastic.

New shooting today. A guy killed at least 11, in a synagogue. He was reported as shouting about killing Jews, as he shot people. Anybody want to wager a guess as to his political leanings?

At least one article today said that the shooter had been upset about immigration…. I won’t go there, until I hear more….

SergeantQueen's avatar

^^^^ Not conservative, that’s for sure.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Oh No ^^^ The Rep/cons are all about peace and love, BARF!!!!!

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Response moderated
Demosthenes's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Anti-Semitism is found on both the extreme Left and Right. Bowers (the shooter) was also anti-Trump (makes sense considering that Trump is very pro-Israel), so it’s hard to blame Trump for this one (though you’ll all find a way, I’m sure). Anti-Trump doesn’t mean “liberal” either. This guy seemed to think Trump didn’t go far enough, that he was a Jewish puppet and not a real nationalist.

MrGrimm888's avatar

I didn’t blame Trump. I inferred that it is likely that the shooter is a right winger.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 You really are a glutton for punishment, aren’t you? Tell you what, I will give you lots of examples of Democrats and other public figures that support them calling for violence. Then you can respond with all the quotes (make them quotes, not interpretations) of Trump inciting violence. Let’s see who runs out of them first.

Eric Holder: “It is time for us as Democrats to be as tough as they are, to be as dedicated as they are, to be as committed as they are. Michelle (Obama) always says ‘When they go low, we go high,’” he continued. “No. No … When they go low, we kick ’em.”

Loretta Lynch: “It has been people, individuals who have banded together, ordinary people who simply saw what needed to be done and came together and supported those ideals who have made the difference. They’ve marched, they’ve bled and yes, some of them died. This is hard. Every good thing is. We have done this before. We can do this again,”

Thomas Suozzi, D-NY: “it’s really a matter of putting public pressure on the President and making it public. This is where the Second Amendment comes in quite frankly, because you know, what if the President was to ignore the courts? What would you do? What would we do?”

Barack Obama at a fundraiser in 2008: “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun.”

Michael Capuano, D-PA at a union rally: “This is going to be a struggle at least for the next two years. Let’s be serious about this. They’re not going to back down and we’re not going to back down. This is a struggle for the hearts and minds of America. I’m proud to be here with people who understand that it’s more than just sending an email to get you going. Every once and awhile you need to get out on the streets and get a little bloody when necessary,”

Tim Kaine from a Jan 2017 interview on MSNBC: “What we’ve got to do is fight in Congress, fight in the courts, fight in the streets, fight online, fight at the ballot box, and now there’s the momentum to be able to do this. And we’re not afraid of the popular outcry, we’re energized by it and that’s going to help us do our job and do it better.” I particularly liked this one since his kid was arrested for doing just that 3 months later.

Maxine Waters: “If you see anybody from that cabinet in a restaurant, in a department store, at a gasoline station — you get out and you create a crowd,” Waters said. “And you push back on them. Tell them they’re not welcome anymore, anywhere!”

Maxine Waters, doubling down: “I think [Trump’s] dangerous. I don’t know why people take it. I think Americans should be out in the streets screaming to the top of their voice. Do something. Make something happen,”

Hillary Clinton during a CNN interview this year: “You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about. That’s why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and/or the Senate, that’s when civility can start again. But until then, the only thing that the Republicans seem to recognize and respect is strength. When you’re dealing with an ideological party that is driven by the lust for power . . . funded by corporate interests . . . you can be civil but you can’t overcome what they intend to do unless you win elections.”

Barack Obama: “I need you to go out and talk to your friends and talk to your neighbors. I want you to talk to them whether they are independent or whether they are Republican. I want you to argue with them and get in their face,”

Barack Obama: “If Latinos sit out the election instead of saying, ‘We’re going to punish our enemies and we’re gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us,’ if they don’t see that kind of upsurge in voting in this election, then I think it’s going to be harder and that’s why I think it’s so important that people focus on voting on November 2.”

Madonna: “YES I’m angry, YES I’m outraged, yes I have thought an awful lot about blowing up the White House, but I know that this won’t change anything,”

Chris Brown: “Man, this shit is getting crazy. Black people getting assaulted at f—king rallies where you’re supposed to talk at. What you need to start doing — all these black people, go together 40, 50 deep. See what they do then,” he added. “Keep touching us, motherfucker.”

Mickey Rourke: “Donald Trump can go fuck himself. His wife said he’s a tough guy; he’s not a tough guy, he’s a bully and he’s a bitch and he can suck my fucking cock. I’ll meet him in a hotel room any motherfucking day of the week and give him a Louisville slugger. Kiss my motherfucking ass you bitch punk cocksucker.”

Johnny Depp: “I think Trump needs help. When was the last time an actor assassinated a president?”

Do I really need to go on? I can if you like. You wanted me to compare Dems calls to violence to Trump’s rhetoric….I just did. You wanted Obama’s calls to violence…I gave those to you as well. I accepted your challenge and will await your dodges…er…responses.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m not reading your stuff any more @seawulf575. Are you still defending that moron?

Your president @seawulf575, ”...joked about canceling a scheduled event because of a “a bad hair day” after he declined to cancel a rally over a shooting at a synagogue in Pittsburgh that happened earlier in the day.
“I said, well I was standing under the wing of Air Force One during a news conference earlier this morning — a very unfortunate news conference,” Trump continued.“And the wind was blowing and the rain, and I was soaking wet,” the president said. “And that’s what I ended up with today. And I said ‘Maybe, I should cancel this arrangement because I have a bad hair day.”
Oh, he has a rapier wit, doesn’t he.

Former President Obama: “We grieve for the Americans murdered in Pittsburgh. All of us have to fight the rise of anti-Semitism and hateful rhetoric against those who look, love, or pray differently.”
“And we have to stop making it so easy for those who want to harm the innocent to get their hands on a gun…”
I grieve Obama.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III if you notice, I haven’t defended his rhetoric at all. But I refuse to hear all these calls from liberals for him to own any violence when Dems have been worse about calling for it. When the Dems stop calling for violence and mayhem AND the liberal adherents stop performing said acts, I will be all over Trump for his dumbass statements.
As for Obama, he did nothing but politicize a tragedy. BTW, that is exactly what the Nazis did in Germany…politicize gun ownership. Here continues to be the challenge for anyone that wants gun control: what law are you going to pass that will keep criminals from getting and using guns? If you look at the stats, something like 99.978% of legal gun owners obey the laws already. That is based on about 12,000 gun murders per year and about 53,000,000 gun owners. There are close to 8,000 gang related gun deaths each year. Do you really think they buy their guns legally? and if you take that 8,000 away from the 12,000 the number of legal gun owners that obey the law go way up. So what exact law are you suggesting that be passed to make gun owners obey the law?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So you have dem/libs rhetoric and claim it’s very real and out weighs Trump’s off the cuff rhetoric?
Really?
Trump praises a politician for body slamming a reporter, that’s nothing.
Saying he will cover the legal bills if anyone of his loyal supporters want to assault a protestor,that’s nothing?
A pop star is upset with the bullshit going on and mutter she would like to blow up the white house, and that is a code red?

As for your last post, I am very much a firearm enthusiast ,but even I know the states needs some sensible gun laws,
Such as mandatory safe storage,limited magazine capacity, and the only ban should be bump stocks.
BUT like your idiot politics of today, both sides will not even try to come to the middle and find sensible solution just go to your collective corners and scream at the top of your lungs.
I highly doubt the states will ever come up with sensible firearm laws that actually protect the public and don’t punish the law abiding firearm owner.
I don’t think either political party is smart enough, to come up with a sensible gun law.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 I have given you all sorts of Dem/Lib rhetoric. It is all verified. Check it yourself, not that I expect you too. Too much like actual work and you might find I am right and then your fantasy would be blown out of the water. In my mind, yes, their rhetoric out weighs Trumps. You make the comment about him saying he would pay the legal bills if someone assaults the protesters. Did you miss the part where the protesters were paid to be there? did you forget the part where they attacked Trump supporters? Yeah, you conveniently want to forget about that part of the equation. So let’s back it up a minute…if the Dems didn’t pay protesters to incite violence, you wouldn’t have any reason to worry about Trump supporters at all. No legal bills to pay. So where did this start? With the Dems inciting violence and mayhem.
A pop start saying she would like to blow up the white house. Is that any less innocuous that most of what you on the left are going crazy about with Trump? AND, she is a public figure making a speech to stir people up. So to you it might be viewing it as justified, but it is exactly that sort of thing that makes the unhinged say “Hey! That’s a good idea!” It was exactly that sort of rhetoric that led James Hodgkinson shoot up a bunch of GOP congressmen at a charity softball game. Yes, I consider that FAR worse than anything Trump has said or done. And here’s the other key…when some idiot goes nuts like this moron sending out pipe bombs, Trump and all the rest of the Repubs immediately denounce the actions and call for a full scale investigation by the FBI. When Hodgkinson actually shot people, not one Dem denounced it until there was a big push for them to do so. Yes, I see their rhetoric and their actions to be far worse than Trump. What amazes me is that so many losers on the left cannot see those behaviors and actions for the bullshit they are.
And, Mr. Gun Enthusiast, how would any of the laws you stated have stopped any of the shootings that make the news and the thousand more that don’t? I pointed out the stats for lawful gun ownership. I pointed out that most of the shootings in this country are by criminals that don’t follow the laws anyways. So why do you believe they would start following new laws? You are naive.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

OMG there is no use talking to you at all about anything ,your right wing mind is made up, left bad right good.
Trickle down is the way.
The pipe bomber had to be a plant by the left because the right is all peace and love.
Oh and your totally right about any sensible gun laws ,it should just be a free for all, open carry above the age of six.
And for fucks sakes no social programs that just takes money out of the fat rich fucks mouths.
BOTH SIDES are guilty of inciting violence weather it be a pop queen.or the FUCKING president.
I may be naive, but you are both sad and scary.

seawulf575's avatar

So by your answer, I can conclude that (a) you aren’t going to check any of my quotations. Figured that one. (b) You can’t accept that Dems and the media are inciting violence. No big surprise there, either. (c) my comments about gun control make too much sense for you to actually attempt an intelligent reply. What a shock.

I am both sad and scary for you because I poke holes in your fantasy realm where everything makes sense to you without actually having any logic. As a threat to your delusions, I am an enemy that is scary to you. I understand.

chyna's avatar

All the media’s fault? No responsibility on his part even though the media reports HIS words?
“Knock the crap out of him, would you? I promise you, I will pay the legal fees”
“I’d like to punch him in the face”
“Maybe he should have been roughed up”
‘Part of the problem is no one wants to hurt each other anymore”
“If you do (hurt him) I’ll defend you in court, don’t worry about it”
“I don’t know if I’ll do the fighting myself or if other people will”
“The audience hit back. That’s what we need a little more of”
“Any guy that can do a body slam… he’s my guy”

I shamelessly stole the above from @Marina’s facebook page. All quotes from Donald Trump. Looks like he has anger issues.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And some of those violent quotes you provided are from people that were tired of getting assaulted and said it’s time they do something all of a sudden they are the bad guy?
Typical bully mentality when your victim slaps back all of a sudden the bully becomes the victim, that is why you are sad and scary.
and to say sensible gun laws won’t work, really there is something wrong with limiting magazine capacity, banning bump stocks, and installing a mandatory safe storage law?
I know it won’t end gun crimes but it’s a good start.
And blaming the left and the media for all the violence ,and I am the naive one?
Let’s see where the mid terms end then come back and say I told you so.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Fact: Statistically the party in office loses the midterms.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@seawulf575 . You only provided a single example of anything close to recommended violence by a liberal politician, and you used the same quote, that conservative media has been spreading. Eric Holder’s remarks. I’ll let you look up what he said directly after that. Then you can feel how you should, manipulated by conservative media.

The other remarks were inspiration to oppose the right, not insight violence. Some politicians understand the nature of Trumpers, so they are preparing them to need to fight back.

Then you make a list of celebrity quotes, as of that has the slightest bit of relevance to the discussion. You really grasped at a lot of straws, but are empty handed…

You.pretty much just continue to galvanize the fact that you are a gullible sheep, and as a reward for being used by Trump, you defend him at every turn.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Thank you @MrGrimm888 .
The celebrity quotes didn’t seem to me that they were to inspire violence, just tired of the shit going down.
Since to him Trump denounced the pipe bomber, Trump all of a sudden is all about peace and love yeah, barf.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna at what point did I say the media is inciting ALL the violence? No, but they certainly are supporting the Dems inciting rhetoric. And where in my statements have I ever said Trump wasn’t inciting? I haven’t. I have just stated that the Dems are just as bad and the media is complicit.
As for the list of Trump spews, you need to do a little more research and get the whole back story. Every one of these statements was made in response to BLM activists that tried to interrupt his rallies and who, oftentimes, got violent first. Gee…where could that behavior come from? Well, they are all liberals and they do get coaxing from their heroes. Several of these statements are taken well out of context as well. Not that they are the right thing to say, but definitely are sound bytes that miss a lot.
I wouldn’t expect you to believe me, but you could look them up yourself. Get the video, its often uncut. But I really don’t expect you to do that either. You hate Trump and don’t want to think what the media is spewing might be slanted when it comes to him.

seawulf575's avatar

@MrGrimm888 and @SQUEEKY2 you two to persist! First, @MrGrimm888 In notice you didn’t produce a single actual quote from Trump. And you let @chyna do that. At least she had the balls to try. Now you are trying to defend the hatred from the left. It wasn’t meant that way is effectively what you are saying. WELL….let’s take a few of the chop quotes from Trump. They fall into that category as well, believe it or not.
‘Part of the problem is no one wants to hurt each other anymore” – do you know what the “problem” was? The Problem was that the cops were having to take a long time to get a paid instigator (with a long history of being an instigator) removed from a rally after he got really obnoxious. There were rumors he was trying to pick fights as well, though I can neither confirm nor deny that. If you go to the whole quote, he makes his statement and says the cops are trying to get him out without hurting him. He did bemoan the idea that we have become such a PC culture that all consequences of being obnoxious protesters are gone. That is a WHOLE different story than the chop quote gives.
But I don’t expect you to actually do any homework on any of this crap. You pull these partial quotes off liberal hate sites and regurgitate them. That is, if you ever actually did that much homework into it. I suspect you heard somewhere that he said something that condoned violence and that is about as much as you know.
As for the defense of Madonna…what you are saying is that she was fed up and spewed and didn’t really mean it. Now…stop a moment and think…If Trump had said something like that, do you think you would have the same viewpoint? No! You would be screaming that he was calling for people to bomb someone. THAT is your hypocrisy showing through. You both are pitiful fools.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Response moderated
Response moderated
JLeslie's avatar

I called Madonna out here and on Facebook. I said she should have been arrested. In my opinion it’s legitimate to call her out as having said dangerous rhetoric. She isn’t the president, but people do listen to her, she is a prominent figure, her speech was televised, and it’s against the law to threaten a president.

Demosthenes's avatar

That’s what bugs me. When someone on “your side” says something like this, your instinct is to make excuses for them, to say it’s not big deal, to get the whataboutism going. Why’s it so hard to condemn it all? To condemn when your side does it too?

I do agree that there is something different about the president. We’ve always held them to a higher standard. But that doesn’t you can’t still call out bad speech from anyone, no matter what their leaning is.

JLeslie's avatar

^^Exactly.

Stache's avatar

The thing is @Seawulf, you can make a list 1000 people long but no one has as much impact and influence as the president of the US.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Anyone who incites violence of any kind needs to be called out for it.
You seem more upset when a celebrity mouths violent rhetoric ,than the President of your country.
And exactly what @Stache ^^^ said!
Madonna was out of line and should be called out for it,what do you want her to face charges?
Then shouldn’t Trump face charges for the violent rhetoric he is guilty of as well?
YES Liberals are guilty of inciting violence as well, but they pale in comparison to the Don Father.
And I stand behind you are an angry LITTLE fright winger.

seawulf575's avatar

@Stache That is where you and I disagree. The media has a far bigger impact. Hollywood has a far bigger impact. With the president, he has followers and he has those that dislike him. He makes speeches that those that like him might like and those that don’t, don’t. But the media and Hollywood? They reach millions of people that don’t follow politics. So they get force fed one side of the story and it is horribly skewed. It’s called propaganda and it is a powerful tool. Far more impactful than any one person. All dictators know its power and they have used it. One of the latest I saw was comments about how Trump is a tyrant and a dictator. But when you look at the FACTS, he has continually tried to make Congress do their jobs. That is not a tyrant, it is not a dictator…it is a leader. But you never hear that view on most of the MSM or from Hollywood. And when the media force feeds you only one viewpoint, they are strongly attempting to influence you.

seawulf575's avatar

@Demosthenes Exactly. I’m not saying Trump is harmless, I’m not saying he hasn’t said bad things. But I absolutely refuse to say he is the only one.

Stache's avatar

You are hilarious Seawulf.

chyna's avatar

@seawulf. Seriously, Madonna is irrelevant anymore. No one gives a rats behind to what she says. I never even heard about it until I read it here, and I’m a news junkie.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Same here @chyna. Had no clue until now, and still have no idea what she said. The media must have done a horrible job covering such a conflagration.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

So @seawulf575 You are claiming Hollywood has a more reaching impact on the people of your country than your President has??
Do you really believe that?
Or are you hoping ,WE believe that?
That is the worse case of deflecting I have ever seen come from anyone Rep/con or Dem/lib.
Sorry @Stache is 10000% correct you are hilarious, even with your insults.
And if that were true, and they are all just bleeding heart liberals, then why is there a nut crazy Republican in the Presidents seat right now instead of a democrat?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 The case could be made that celebrity worship is far more widespread than people who follow politics. Maybe you don’t realize that since you don’t live in the US.

There is a Republican in office because his voters came out and voted. Pretty easy equation.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I suppose it takes a particular kind of brain to fall for “celebrity worship.” I grew out of it when I was 14, and realized Donnny Osmond was never going to marry me. Sniff.
There are several people who I really like as actors and actress. But somehow I have the magical ability to understand that that doesn’t make them more politically savvy than the average person.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess Funny and true! (Donny & Marie was my first record.)

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 and @Stache let me pop a few facts onto you: The View gets about 2.7 million viewers EVERY DAY. Bill Maher gets about 1.8 million every show. Fox is the top cable news outlet and gets about 2.2 million, but just MSNBC and CNN pull in almost 3 million viewers combined (1.8M+ and 1.1M+ respectively). Combined together, that means there are 7.5 million viewers every day getting brainwashed by liberal schlocks. Only 2.2 million getting it from conservative schlocks. Trump makes campaign rally speeches to a few thousand at a time. These are then filtered by the aforementioned schlocks and “reported” on. The only time he gets direct impact is when he does something like the 60 minutes interview…11 million viewers to a one time event. Figure half of those wanted to hear him slam Leslie Stahl and the other have wanted to see her slam him. So on an average year, the average American gets innundated with propaganda from TV…far more so than from the POTUS. Want more? Okay…one of the top Nielsen shows is The Big Bang Theory at about 12 Million viewers per show. They just ran a skit where they slammed Trump hard. Think those people didn’t get a message from that? Was it based on facts? Nope…propaganda. And that is just one show. Face it…conservative shows are few and far between…they get shut down by the liberal studio heads. That is the impact Hollywood can have. So yes, Hollywood and the MSM has a much larger impact on Americans than you want to admit. Open your minds, boys…you might actually find enlightenment.

Yellowdog's avatar

There is a lot of political unrest that borders on violence in my city. It is all Democrats.

Yet they are saying this toxic rhetoric is the fault of Trump supporters and the Democrats offer it as evidence to not elect Republicans.

Stache's avatar

63 million people voted for Trump. Your numbers don’t mean shit.

seawulf575's avatar

@Yellowdog Really? You expect Dems/Libs to actually have evidence of their claims? And actually be able, with logic and reason, to defend their views? Maybe answer a few questions without falling into name calling and personal attacks? Huh.

flutherother's avatar

This thread began by asking who might be behind the recent spate of pipe bomb attacks. It turned out to be the work of a guy with extreme right wing views. Somehow we have gone from that to saying “It is all Democrats” and now you’re complaining that Dems/Libs don’t support their arguments with logic and reason?

Dutchess_III's avatar

As they throw out claims that are, as usual, not backed by proof of any kind.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Again being the aggressor and playing the poor fright wing victim as well @seawulf575 ,
@Stache is totally correct you are hilarious, but quick flag this as a personal attack.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Look I agree with you both sides are guilty of inciting violence weather one is playing Hitler and the other does it out of frustration.
Inciting violence for ANY REASON is WRONG!!!
Like saying the pipe bomber had to be a left wing plant, because the right is just to much peace and love.
Or Protestors were there because they were paid to be there, good grief give the Fox news conspiracy theories a little rest.
Your Orange god is in your white house, your beloved Republicans are the GOP, and yet everything is still the democrats fault?

notnotnotnot's avatar

bothsidesism alert

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther