Social Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

Did Trump declaring a National Emergency over the wall open him up to lawsuits that couldn't have been brought against him otherwise?

Asked by Dutchess_III (46812points) February 16th, 2019

This article made me wonder.

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

25 Answers

SavoirFaire's avatar

Not against him personally, but pretty much every action a president takes can be challenged in the courts (and therefore opens him up to lawsuits that couldn’t have been brought against him otherwise). The presidency is imbued with a lot of power by the US Constitution, however, and it has amassed considerably more through the years due to congressional inaction and judicial deference. As such, challenges to presidential power are rarely successful.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

He is not being sued but the monies he has Grabbed is now in limbo so now no one can spend them. So he has defunded money from EPA and construction of housing for military families. I think if he stays for 8 years he will spend more than $ 8 Billion on his trips to Mar-a-Lago or elsewhere (this is his 223rd day on one of his properties).

seawulf575's avatar

The situation may bring on more lawsuits, but that is nothing new. In the end, the lawsuits come down to one real factor: Does the POTUS have the right to declare a national emergency? It is a power the POTUS has and it has been invoked by almost every POTUS before this, since it’s inception. What may happen is that the Dems will fight this to try changing the law, but by that time the wall could be built. In the end, the law allows the POTUS to declare a national emergency, but it doesn’t define what is categorized as a national emergency. It leaves that up to the discretion of the POTUS. So while there may be lawsuits coming, I suspect they are counting heavily on liberal jurists to rule on ideology rather than law to hold things up. In the end, it will end up with the SCOTUS.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

He has the right to declare a National Emergency but there needs to be an Emergency not “I’m playing to my reality TV fans”!

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie I guess your view of the emergency depends on your point of reference. If you are living in NC and aren’t impacted and haven’t lost anyone to drugs, you don’t see it as an emergency. If you have lost family members to an illegal that has been deported a number of times and has a rap sheet a mile long or you have lost family members to drugs, you might see it as more of an emergency. Here’s the REAL question to those that say it isn’t an emergency: why do you fight so hard to address our porous borders? Dems want to cut back on border patrol, they don’t want effective fencing or walls, they don’t want to even talk about the drugs pouring across the border, yet they will scream when anyone else does. Why is that?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I’m impacted because legal and illegal ag workers have dropped in number for picking and harvesting in NC, it is impacting the whole state of NC

The Emergency is imaginary; the number of illegal crossing has dropped over the last couple of years and El Chapo’s replacement surely knows his submarine fleet drugs will not try to go over or through the WALL. Or stop them from flying in through Ontario Canada. The best tunnel diggers in the world may work for the Mexican drug cartel. The WALL won’t stop members of the cartel; they don’t walk up to it and say, “Oh there’s a wall I’ll turn around.”

Zaku's avatar

Seems like a complete fraud to me.
http://emergencyimpeach.com/

stanleybmanly's avatar

The drug epidemic these days is no longer about illegals flooding the country with illicit drugs. It’s now about drugs manufactured and distributed by homegrown Americans. In the end, the boondoggle of a few billion dollars thrown away on a symbolic, but otherwise useless pile of masonry may be worth the investment if it distracts the 2 year old from more harmful endeavors. After all, what says America louder than thrown away money?

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie so let me get this right…you are willing to exploit illegal aliens so that you can have lower produce prices? That seems to be what you are saying.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I am pretty sure that the Mexican citizens who come over the boarder legally to harvest crops are paid at least minimum wage, which is a hell of a lot more than they could get in Mexico. So is that really “exploitation”?
But, unlike some, I shall go find some sources to either back up my claim, or dispute it. Either way I’ll let you know,

Dutchess_III's avatar

As of now I haven’t found what they pay them @seawulf575, but according to this article,:
…But even with the fees and the bribes, an H-2A visa is still a great opportunity for Hispanic workers.
“We earn a lot of money here,” said a migrant worker in southern Indiana, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. He stood in a bodega Saturday afternoon with about a dozen other migrant workers waiting to cash their paychecks. “One American dollar is worth 18 pesos in Mexico.”
The other men nodded in strong agreement.
“There are farming jobs in Mexico, the man added “But the work here (in America) is much less laborious,” he said, speaking in Spanish…

At least that addresses the idea you have of “exploitation.” If you read the entire article, the American workers dropped out because the work was “toooo hard.”

Dutchess_III's avatar

OK, Here is something about the wages:
”...Additionally, it’s possible for a farm worker being paid by piece rate to make less than the minimum wage. For instance, the piece rate for orange juice in Florida is 85 cents per 90-pound box of oranges. Average productivity for a worker is 8 boxes per hour, which means that during an 8-hour workday, a worker will produce 64 boxes of oranges (or 5,760 pounds of oranges!). According to the 85 cents piece rate, a worker would receive only $6.80 an hour, which is significantly less than Florida’s $7.93 minimum wage (as of January 2014).”

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@seawulf575 Once again you jump to your ultra-conservative conclusion. The legal pickers didn’t want to be hassled by the ICE agents, because ICE ASSUMED all picker were illegal.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III you are either purposely or through ignorance trying to misrepresent what I said. @Tropical_Willie stated that legal and illegal ag workers were impacting his produce prices. It sounds to me as if he welcomes illegal workers which can be exploited just so he can have lower prices. The entire discussion has been about illegal immigration and the problems that a porous border bring to this country. You have given many examples of legal immigration. I am all for legal immigration. But that is not all that @Tropical_Willie said. Now…do you agree that allowing illegals into this country in violation of our laws is worth saving a few pennies on a head of broccoli? If you are willing to ignore border laws for that, then any crimes committed by illegals and any drugs that come into this country via that route are on your head as well.

seawulf575's avatar

@Tropical_Willie you do it make it so easy for me to ridicule you. Okay…here we go again.

“I’m impacted because legal and illegal ag workers have dropped in number for picking and harvesting in NC, it is impacting the whole state of NC”

Those were your words. Did you or did you not say that a drop in illegal ag workers has impacted harvesting? Yes you did. So you apparently are all for illegals coming into this country whenever they want, to go wherever they want, to do whatever they want, so long as it helps harvesting in NC? Are you a farmer? Do you have crops that require illegal aliens to pick them? If so, why? Why are you using illegals? So you can exploit them and pay them less?
Now that @Dutchess_III tried deflecting for you by citing all sorts of things about legal immigrants, you jump on that bandwagon because you know I called you out and you had no response. You have also created a narrative for which you, once again, have no proof. How much do legal immigrants get hassled by ICE? How much hassle is it really? If they are asked for their visa, that is exactly what ICE is supposed to do. And it is the responsibility of the immigrant to ensure his visa is in order. If you went to another country wouldn’t they have the right to ask for your visa? So please…tote out your evidence so we can tear it apart as well. But don’t bother…I already know you will just try some lame attack on me because you don’t have any actual facts, just your “feelings”. Too bad.

Dutchess_III's avatar

What you said was pretty straight forward @seawulf575: ”...you are willing to exploit illegal aliens so that you can have lower produce prices? ” I showed you how it was NOT “exploiting” the migrant workers. The make a lot more here than they can at home so it’s a blessing.

Dutchess_III's avatar

They are not legal immigrants @seawulf575. The are legal migrants, which means they can come over the boarder legally to work, then go back home. AKA migrant workers.

seawulf575's avatar

@Dutchess_III every example you gave was for legal immigrants. I don’t believe the legal immigrants are treated right all right…okay…legal migrants. The point is they entered this country legally. But how much worse are the illegal “migrants” treated? Are they paid less? My guess is yes….because they can be. Now, if you care to actually address what @Tropical_Willie said to which I responded and keep with the issue, we can continue. Otherwise, you are trying to deflect.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I was talking about legal migrants @seawulf575. They are Mexican citizens who live in Mexico and come to the US legally for a couple of months out of the year for harvest. Then they go back.
I don’t know why you’re bringing up the pay issue again. I addressed that already. They are paid according to how much produce they harvest. It’s possible they could come in under minimum wage, but it’s also possible they could make above minimum wage. But whatever they make, it’s a hell of a lot more than they can make in Mexico.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Oh, and now trump and ICE have scared off the legal migrants and the produce is rotting in the field. Where are all the American workers when you need them?

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
stanleybmanly's avatar

That’s another characteristic of the fool for which there is no defense. Trump is clearly extending his malice to as many immigrants, legal or otherwise as he can arrange. And it is particularly loathsome that he OPENLY picks on the most vulnerable to hound and terrorize. Schemes like categorizing green card holders as “welfare recipients” who qualify as deportable if their children are enrolled in school
lunch or daycare programs. It is impossible to watch what he’s doing and fall for that bullshit about defending the borders. His plan and every dull witted heavy fisted move is about systemic harassment and terrorization of anyone weak enough to push around.

Dutchess_III's avatar

His every plan is to be putin’s puppet.

Response moderated
Response moderated (Personal Attack)

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.
Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther