Social Question

josie's avatar

I assume you have to pick up after your dog in San Francisco. Why not yourself?

Asked by josie (29296points) 1 month ago

https://www.businessinsider.com/san-francisco-human-poop-problem-2019-4

I went there on a weekend a few years ago while I was in San Diego. It was pretty bad. Hard to believe it might be worse.

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34 Answers

hmmmmmm's avatar

“But the problem is bigger than just keeping the streets clean — the issue appears to be related to the city’s struggle to accommodate its homeless population amid skyrocketing rent prices and a decreasing supply of affordable housing.

A 2017 survey of San Francisco’s homeless population counted nearly 7,500 people living on the street. That population faces limited public resources, and public bathrooms are no exception.”

Maybe there should be human poop bags available everywhere. Or even better – provide housing and public restrooms so people don’t have to live and poo outside.

zenvelo's avatar

”...I assume you have to pick up after your dog

That’s a pretty big assumption. Dog owners (excuse me, “guardians”) don’t necessarily pick up after their dogs.

But people who poo on the street aren’t quite the subset of people responsible enough to clean up after themselves.

seawulf575's avatar

I guess if a cop catches someone crapping on the sidewalk and leaving it they can get a ticket like a dog owner would get.

elbanditoroso's avatar

Is shit the question, really? I doubt it.

SF has had a huge homeless population for decades. It’s probably worse in 2019 because of the decline in funding for various aid programs, and the income inequality in the Bay Area us well documented. And it’s worse in SF proper.

The real question to ask is: why now? Why has the homeless population now – April 2019 – decided it’s OK to shit on the pavement when five years ago it wasn’t? Have the people changed? Has the availability of restrooms changed? Are businesses no longer letting homeless people come in and crap? Is this a silent protest against Trump?

Some condition changed that is causing this phenomenon to occur. Those of you live out there – what has changed?

Patty_Melt's avatar

If it were about Trump I’m sure SF would not be the only location. Perhaps it is California’s failing economy, under the so called leadership of democrat governors.
I can’t believe anyone could have a straight face and try to associate Trump with crapping homeless in SF.
Might I suggest electing people who will effect positive results, rather than who is viewed as charming or chummy?
Also, they should quit supporting massive populations of illegal residents, and find ways of supporting American citizens before trying to pamper the world.

Brian1946's avatar

Apparently the OP is not bound by one of Newton’s laws, according to his details. ;-)

snowberry's avatar

It’s time to take a lesson from poop free Hyderabad. If they figured it out maybe San Diego and San Francisco can.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 Consider the deterrence likely from handing a ticket to a person prone to take a dump on a public sidewalk. If you put yourself in the position of a cop, you almost certainly would choose to look the other way other than risk the necessity of having to arrest the culprit and confine him for any time in the back of your cruiser!

stanleybmanly's avatar

@elbanditoroso the assault on restrooms of local businesses has compelled many of those businesses to attempt to restrict those restrooms to customers. The pressure is relentless in places like supermarkets, and particularly with single occupancy restrooms with locking doors. Those are particularly treasured by those attempting to maintain some semblance of hygiene. In bathrooms with multiple stalls and urinals, it isn’t uncommon to stumble upon people attempting to nearly bathe in the sinks. And often you will find men (who I assume have jobs) shaving in restrooms. And it is an absolute horror to witness what can happen to a restroom heavily trafficked by homeless folks in a couple of hours. The city should invest in public lavatories and pay the homeless to clean and monitor them.

mazingerz88's avatar

Dog owners are not homeless people. Try being homeless and see how long before you lose interest in picking up your own shit.

snowberry's avatar

@mazingerz88 lots of homeless people have dogs. They provide companionship and security.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^ I know. Might be mistaken but I thought dog owners who pick up after their dogs are being compared to homeless people who don’t pick up their own shit.

zenvelo's avatar

@Patty_Melt I don’t know where you get “California’s failing economy”. Unemployment in California is much lower than the rest of the country.

The problem is exacerbated by housing prices and income inequality, and a local court system that does not hold people responisible for inappropriate behavior.

The poo issue is not at all new, it is just getting much worse.

Patty_Melt's avatar

Uh, being employed does not mean there is a successful balance of finance.
What you point out about housing and income is exactly the signs of a failed economy. Everybody could be employed, but if forty percent are being paid five dollars an hour, that is economic failure.

Response moderated
seawulf575's avatar

@zenvelo Economy is more than employment. It is also cost of living, taxes, production, sales, and even entitlements. CA has among the highest in many of these categories compared to the rest of the country. I saw a show a few months ago about the homeless crisis in Los Angeles. One of the people they interviewed was a young lady that was employed as a registered nurse. She was making good money, but couldn’t afford housing in the area. She was living in her car and showering at the YWCA. That is a perfect example of a failed economy. My ex-FIL worked with a guy who had worked for the city of Marin before it became “THE” place to be. He retired from the city after 20 years. His wife had been the town librarian and had retired from their. They owned their home outright…no mortgage. Yet eventually they had to sell their home they had lived in for most of their married life because they could no longer afford to pay the taxes on it. THAT is a sign of a government that doesn’t really care about the little guy. And neither of these examples is as rare as you might think.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@Patty_Melt: “Uh, being employed does not mean there is a successful balance of finance.
What you point out about housing and income is exactly the signs of a failed economy.
Everybody could be employed, but if forty percent are being paid five dollars an hour, that is economic failure.”

I completely agree. An economy is a failure if it means that people are working for poverty wages and cannot afford the basics, like housing, food, education, and healthcare. An economy with relatively low official unemployment is nothing to brag about if the citizens have unsafe drinking water and work many jobs just to get by while a few people do exceptionally well.

hmmmmmm's avatar

@seawulf575: “I saw a show a few months ago about the homeless crisis in Los Angeles. One of the people they interviewed was a young lady that was employed as a registered nurse. She was making good money, but couldn’t afford housing in the area. She was living in her car and showering at the YWCA. That is a perfect example of a failed economy.”

Preach, brother! I also support a planned economy over a market-based one.

seawulf575's avatar

@hmmmmmm CA is an example of your “planned economy”. The Dem leadership is planning it exactly how they want it. It favors the rich only. No big surprise there.

hmmmmmm's avatar

^ Go on…

seawulf575's avatar

@hmmmmmm a big chunk of the problem in CA is the planned economy. It is the decisions to raise taxes for extra social programs. It is the decisions to put extra regulation on everything. These are all plans for the economy that the Dems want. They have a vision for what they want CA to be and they are planning the economy to make it happen. The problem is that they aren’t realistic about the impacts of their actions.

hmmmmmm's avatar

^ So lower tax rates and less regulations would lower housing costs to the point where people could afford to live there? Explain.

stanleybmanly's avatar

Failed economy? The economy here is booming beyond belief and is the hottest in the country. There are plenty of ways to view the housing shortage, but failed economy isn’t one of them. The housing shortage is testimony to the fact that things are so good that everybody wants to live here. @seawulf575 Your friend from Marin who couldn’t afford the taxes on that house in Marin is effectively ideally situated to experience the glories of capitalism. He could either sell his house and buy most of your town with the proceeds or rent the house out and live like a king in Hicksville on the income. What’s going on here is a direct lesson on the failures of capitalism. The mean income here is now in excess of $140,000, yet that salary won’t nearly qualify you for a mortgage on a vacant lot. The town is loaded with VACANT brand new apartments which no one can afford and there’s a huge boom in the construction of rental housing, for which the city has mandated that every multiple unit building must set aside a certain percentage of “affordable” units. Most of those empty apartments are snatched up by money from all over the world of fat cats who’ve figured out that housing here is a better place to park your money than the booming stock market. If you think THIS is a failing economy, you have your head up your ass! This is an economy that is leaving the rest of you literally in the dust. As I said last week, this town is rolling in money. 49 square miles, a population of less than 900 thousand and an 11 BILLION dollar treasury. The city could literally give every homeless man woman and child a million dollars in cash and barely notice the expense. Failed economy? It’s a runaway economy, and a lesson on enormous wealth concentrating in specific locales while the heartland dries up and withers. It is the living diagram of the transfer of wealth. You should take a good look NOW and determine which side of that transaction the capitalist model has fated YOU.

Demosthenes's avatar

Yeah, I’m not convinced that switching California to Republican leadership would “solve the housing the crisis”. The only thing that would solve the housing crisis is if the tech industry crashed and people no longer believed that they had to live in the Bay Area to work in tech. Get rid of the demand and housing becomes more affordable! You can’t regulate it into affordability. (The Bay Area is practically becoming a colony of Asia given the amount of foreign investors who own property there).

zenvelo's avatar

@seawulf575 The home owner in Marin would not have to move because of increasing property taxes. Prop 13 ended that 40 years ago.

seawulf575's avatar

@Sorry, @stanleybmanly, your claim of excessive property tax rate being a lesson in the failure of capitalism is patently false. Taxes are not part of capitalism…they are dictated by the government. And governments raise taxes where they want to push out the undesirables. People finally revolted back in 1978 and the Dems had to buy into the plan from the Conservative Legislators and Prop 13 came to be. It took the power of the property tax away from the Dem legislators, but they keep trying to get rid of it. CA also has one of the highest numbers of homeless people in the nation with no real plan for dealing with it. CA has THE highest poverty rate in the nation. And while it has a high mean income, that is skewed horribly by silicon valley and the number of billioinaires. It’s amazing how a few billionaires can bring up the average, isn’t it? But does that mean the economy is going great? Factor in the high taxes and the high cost of living and it suddenly doesn’t. Your examples of Marin highlight what I am talking about. Also, it points to your lack of empathy for the homeless who abound in CA. It also points to the idea that you don’t want to recognize CA’s economy as a whole, but want to try paring it down to a small, high income area.

seawulf575's avatar

@zenvelo I had the conversation with my FIL in the mid-80’s. His coworker had already been devastated by the runaway “government control” of the property taxes.

Demosthenes's avatar

@zenvelo I don’t know too many people leaving the Yay Area because of property taxes. The people leaving are renters who have experienced an exponential increase in their rent because of the tech boom and people who bought a house years ago for $100K that is now worth $1.5 million and are cashing out. It’s also people fed up with the traffic and commute.

zenvelo's avatar

@seawulf575 Anecdota;evidence from 35 years ago does not apply to the current state of affairs in California. And I would still call it bogus because Prop 13 had been in place for years by then.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 What the hell are you talking about? California has the highest poverty rate in the nation? That’s so obviously a deliberate lie that it astounds me that you have the Trumplike gall to attempt to get away with it. I checked and according to the census bureau Mississippi still leads the pack at better than 20% And by the way, every state from the top 15 is below the mason dixon line and solidly red. My comment about capitalism is not connected to taxes, excessive or otherwise. And as usual with your jerkwater reasoning you rattle on to demonstrate that once again you don’t know what you’re talking about. First you relate the tragedy of your friend having to sell his house due to the huge rise in property taxes, then come back praising prop 13 which specifically restricts tax rates on property in California to 1% of its assessed value. If your friend could no longer afford the taxes on his house, it can only mean that the house had risen ENORMOUSLY in value. He’s rich!

Demosthenes's avatar

California has the highest child poverty rate. They were talking about that on NPR a week ago.

stanleybmanly's avatar

@seawulf575 Now even with our burden of homeless people and our billionaire surplus, you of all people take the hypocrisy cake in labeling anyone deficient when it comes to empathy for the downtrodden. And were I in your shoes Mr. conservative, I might pause from blowing all that ignorant hot air and think on the implications of all that redland destitution, its causes, and what it portends for your future. After all, I think there’s more to your plight than the fact that billionaires want nothing to do with you. If you think we Californians have it tough, just ask yourself why neither our homeless or our billionaires are flooding in your direction in pursuit of “the good life”.

seawulf575's avatar

@stanleybmanly you are correct, I didn’t mean poverty rate…I meant number of homeless. But I call you on your lack of empathy because you do lack it. You spout the liberal talking points but don’t actually look at the big picture. You want me to have empathy for the illegal aliens, yet you lack empathy for the victims of the crime, human trafficking, and drugs that are pouring across our border thanks to the efforts of people like you. You defend the great state of CA, but refuse to consider that the liberal policies are hurting most of the people in the state and have led to the largest number of homeless people in the country. You rant endlessly about the evil rich in every other thread on Fluther, yet you are defending them now because it helps your arguments today.
As for why the homeless and billionaires are not flooding my direction? I can answer that one really easily. The homeless have no means of leaving and the Billionaires are in bed with the politicians so they have no reason to leave. However, there have been many individuals and businesses that have fled CA to better places. This article does a good evaluation

https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/great-california-exodus-closer-look-5853.html

Let me give you NY as another example of where the ones that could escape were escaping. In fact they have been considering ways to punish those that want to leave. But that is how liberals think. Raise taxes and give away money and then further punish those that don’t want to support that game.

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