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dalepetrie's avatar

Has either Presidential candidate's VP pick changed your mind or helped you make it up?

Asked by dalepetrie (18009points) August 29th, 2008

Now that we know who both VP pikcs are, if you were sitting on the fence, do you now have a clearer picture, or if you were lukewarm about one candidate, did the other’s pick excite you enough to switch sides?

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37 Answers

cak's avatar

I find McCain’s choice interesting; however, not enough to make me jump the fence. I’m definitely going to do some more research and learn more about his choice – I don’t know enough about her to really have a strong opinion, yet.

hollym's avatar

No, not at all. My mind has been 100% made up since right before the primaries.

I was a little surprised by McCain’s choice, though. I kind of view it as if McCain thought “oh, Obama’s a minority… I better get me one of those! Hyuck!” But mostly I’m surprised by the fact that he picked a running mate that’s already involved in some media “scandal.” Interesting…

peggylou's avatar

Biden will make an Obama presidency even stronger. They complement each other so well. Palin’s lack of experience is downright scary if McCain’s age ever causes a problem!

jrpowell's avatar

I pretty much agree with peggylou.

cheebdragon's avatar

I think some people should read up on palin…..from a source not affiliated with the Obama campaign…

hollym's avatar

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWi6yTVfPyJeiTBsQ33SSUiobt8wD92I9NIO0

Last time I checked, the associated press wasn’t affiliated with Obama…

aidje's avatar

I still hate both of them.

dalepetrie's avatar

Here’s what I know about her so far (that’s not superficial like 5 kids with unusual names, played basketball, etc.)....

Staunchly pro-life

Doesn’t believe global warming is man made

For drilling in ANWR

Sued to keep polar bears off the protected species list as it would have interfered with oil drilling.

Lifetime member of the NRA

Opposed to same sex marriage and even supported a constitutional ammendment to deny same sex partners benefits

Supports teaching creationism in schools

Against any windfall profits tax on oil companies

Recently said she doesn’t even know what the Vice President does

Husband is a former BP employee

Has been governor for less than 2 years

Is governor of the 3rd least populous state, which has less than one fifth of one percent of the US population and an annual budget of less than $7B. 40% of Americans live in a county with more people than the entire state of Alaska

Will be 2nd in line for the Presidency if McCain wins, even though McCain is 72 and has had cancer 4 times

Personally I don’t like ANY of this, but my mind was made up before the running mates, so it doesn’t change anything for me.

hollym's avatar

@ dalepetrie, thanks for posting all of the reasons why I think that ms. Palin is an unreasonable, unethical, horrible, hypocritical, beast!

If anything, McCain’s choice made me even MORE likely to vote Obama, if that was possible.

dalepetrie's avatar

And hey, to be fair, to some these might actually be selling points. And by the way, I’m not affiliated w/ the Obama campaign. I’m pretty much in line with hollym’s assessment of the situation, but we should all vote our consciences.

Now, this part is my opinion, but to me it seemed horribly transparent and even insulting to women that in her first speech to the American public, she made a clear play for disaffected Hillary supporters. McCain has made no bones about making a play for these voters, but one would have thought he’d rather stick with the “Obama is too inexperienced” message (which this move undercuts completely) than with a strategy of trying to go after disaffected Hillary supporters after how strongly Hillary AND Bill came out in support of Obama this week. But this move just suggests to me, and I believe to many that McCain believes women are interchangeable. It doesn’t surprise me he’d think that way given his record on women’s issues, but this is surprisingly blatant.

hollym's avatar

I read this article today (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5973844.html) and one line really irked me. Ms. Palin was being praised by one republican who said “She’s beautiful to look at. The men are going to love her. She hunts. She fishes. She is an environmentalist.”

Okay, okay, a couple of things wrong with that… 1) Are republican men (or men in general) so stupid that they’d vote with their penises? 2) Is she saying that hunting and fishing make an environmentalist? Or… does she only eat locally grown/hunted food? I don’t get how those things make her a good candidate for the vice-presidency. It kind of makes me think she’s a gun nut. 3) She’s clearly NOT an environmentalist!!! See dalepetrie’s comments above… I need not retype them.

It sickens me that McCain thinks he’s going to entice women in to voting for him just because he’s picked a female running mate. Just like men aren’t going to vote with their penises, any woman worth her political salt isn’t going to vote with her vagina, either. How about women who actually believe Obama and in Hilary because they support opinions and issues that are important to women voters?

Yeaaaaah, I’ve typed too much. I should go to sleep.

Peace!

skfinkel's avatar

I believe that Obama’s choice of Biden was a strong one for his candidacy and also for the country.

Conversely, I think McCain’s choice of Palin was a cynical one that threatens his candidacy and could be devastating for the country.

If I had been a supporter of McCain, I would now run, not walk, to Obama. Had I been a Hillary supporter (which I was many months ago), I would be more confirmed that Obama was the candidate that actually cared about issues pertaining to women.

jcs007's avatar

@skfinkel: funny you should mention that. My dad has always been a diehard Republican. Hence, he was a big time McCain supporter. After watching and learning what Obama and Biden have to offer, McCain’s veep pick was the last straw. He now supports Obama! And this is why: should something happen to McCain, we can only imagine what kind of president she would be given the brief outline of her stance on issues that dale has been so kind to provide. Even my dad can see how McCain is just trying to woo those Hillary supporters…

On the other hand, Biden was an excellent pick for Obama. Those two complement each other perfectly. My dad loves the experience that Biden brings to the table. If he had to have picked a Democrat for president, he would have picked Biden.

This was the happiest moment in my history of political debates with my dad. =D

As for me, my mind was made up before any of this veep hoopla. After all, I’ll be voting for the next president, not vice. The veep choice is the first glimpse/test of a candidate’s judgement as if he/she were president.

Obama: passed with flying colors
McCain: EPIC FAIL
*note that this test was graded by me and is not reflective of anyone else’s opinion

girlofscience's avatar

Yes, I agree with what a lot of you have said. I gave about 6 people lurve on this thread.

I only have one thing to add about McCain’s choice. He had previously claimed that he was all about making a “personal choice, from the heart.” He barely even knows Sarah Palin. Way to start off by already going against your word, McCain!

I also think Biden was an excellent choice for Obama.

I have been an Obama supporter from Day 1, and nothing could change my mind, but everything that has happened has only strengthened my decision. Of course, considering the state of our country, I would vote for the Democratic candidate even if he/she totally sucked, but I actually do support Obama for a lot more than the fact that he is Democrat.

Bri_L's avatar

This is an interesting find on Palin. Sometimes it isn’t what you do, but what you don’t do that says worlds about you.

Palin Laughs As Opponent (who had cancer) Is Called “Bitch,” “Cancer,” Mocked For Her Weight (AUDIO)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/31/palin-laughs-as-opponent_n_122776.html

Quoted from article: As the Daily News op-ed notes, Palin later released a statement reading, “The Governor called Senator Green to explain that she does not condone name-calling in any way and apologized if there was a perception that the comment was attributed to the Governor.” Then again, at the end of the call in question, Lester asked if he could come visit Palin, and she responded, “I’d be honored to have you.”

emilyrose's avatar

@ cheeb—tell us why you like Palin

tabbycat's avatar

My mind was firmly made up in favor of Obama before either vice presidential announcement was made, even though I did not vote for Obama in the primary. But I must say that Obama’s choice of Biden was a better one than I expected, and McCain’s choice of Palin was a worse one than I had expected, so I can see how the Vice-Presidential candidate might make a difference for fence sitters.

That being said, I know few fence sitters in this election.

Judi's avatar

I have a question that I know a lot of conservative women are asking in their heads but it is not a politically correct question to ask so I’ll duck now. Is her husband a stay at home dad? Otherwise, who is mothering her special needs child while she goes to work the day after he is born?
While I applaud her for being able to juggle 5 kids and a job that is very demanding, unless her husband is home with the kids, it seems like conservative mothers would be asking, where are your priorities here? As a life long liberal democrat I am somewhat embarrassed for even thinking the question, but as a mother who worked while raising 3 kids, I know that my 8–5 was hard on them. OK, Can I at least put on a hat before anyone throws eggs at me?

sndfreQ's avatar

@Judi-both a fair and valid question to ask; my limited understanding is that she only recently entered her career in public office (only a few years ago), so it’s possible that she was the “stay at home” during her child’s formative years. Again, don’t know enough about her to verify that, but just wanted to throw the idea into the discussion.

AlaskaTundrea's avatar

Hi, Judi: When Sarah became Governor, Todd was working for BP (British Petroleum) but resigned for both political reasons and personal ones. They really didn’t know what to expect as far as meeting family needs at that point. I don’t recall the time frame, sorry, but at some point he decided he wanted to go back to work and BP was willing to accept him with open arms. There was a brief media flurry about it, the predictable conflict of interest type stuff, but it was my understanding that he had returned to work. That meant, essentially, he was away from home for work for probably a two week on, two week off work pattern. I’m sure his was flexible, but that’s the sort of work time frame most involved with the oil industry keep.

When Trig, the baby was born, however, it was obvious to me that Todd was back to being Mr. Mom, tho’ I can’t pinpoint when he left BP. I certainly don’t have access to his paycheck, but I’d assume he was pulling down a minimum of a $100 grand even for his decidedly blue-collar position. He’s obviously back to being Mr. Mom now and, gotta admit, I have to wonder how this born in Alaska and loves the great outdoors kinda guy is loving the big city life of jetting here and there. Ha

Personally, as an Alaskan and someone who has actually met the Palins, I’m just as mystified by her choice as anyone else. I like her lots but am not convinced that she is the best the Republicans have to offer. No offense to those who spout that being mayor of Wasilla was great experience, but that is a part-time job that even I could do with one hand tied behind my back. No offense, but that and the council stuff is pretty meaningless, so I’m still waiting for someone to explain to me why Sarah was the best choice. In a weird way I think it’s cool, how often does one actually know the major players on the world stage, but it gives me pause as to McCain’s thought processes even more than my concerns over Sarah’s preparation for the job does. He’s the one we need to be looking at, pondering why he did it and holding him accountable. Personally, I wish some of you could convince me that it was a wise choice. I want to vote for my home-town girl!

IchtheosaurusRex's avatar

McCain’s choosing Palin makes me want to send another $50 to the DNC.

Bri_L's avatar

I was very much Obama

This just made it that much easier to argue against McCain.

http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/08/29/what-is-mccain-thinking-one-alaskans-perspective/

dalepetrie's avatar

I guess we have a very vivid example of what abstinence based sex ed can do now.

Darwin's avatar

Alaska – I was going to ask you on Facebook how you feel about Palin. I’m glad you laid it out here. Being a Texan, however, I must warn you against voting for your homie just because she is one. Look what happened to the US thanks to a “Texan.”

I must admit that I could never have voted for McCain, even before he selected her.

Sep 1, 9:52 pm CST

cheebdragon's avatar

Just reading these answers, makes me like her even more!

Darwin's avatar

BTW, we knew the Bushes, too, and were shocked that it was Dubya that made the move to Washington. He was the most supremely self-centered and impulsive one of the kids, and simply replaced drugs and booze with church.

Sep 2, 8:48 am CST

Bri_L's avatar

@ Cheebdragon – your for her and the ticket or for her? Did you read what her own people thought of her in the linked article, written by someone not from the Obama campaign from Alaska?

hollym's avatar

@cheebdragon : I can’t possibly imagine what you mean… perhaps you could explain how the informed comments of our fellow flutherers (say that ten times fast) on the drawbacks of Ms. Palin as vp nominee make you like her more. I’m just very curious.

sarapnsc's avatar

I’ve really stopped following the news, because I think just about anyone these days could run for president, after Bush…heck I may even run myself. I think Palin would make just as good of a president than anyone else.

I think we’re being a bit harsh with regard to Sarah Palin’s experience or interest in foreign policy. George W. Bush had no more experience in international relations than Sarah Palin, and except for invading the wrong country, allowing Osama bin Laden to remain free, letting the Taliban regroup in Afghanistan, allowing the US dollar to lose its value, sinking the nation more and more heavily into debt with China, refusing to take serious action to curb global warming, and presiding over an astronomical increase in oil prices, has he really done that badly? I think Sarah Palin might be just as skillful (in the event of her assuming the presidency) as our current president.. What are we worried about?

jcs007's avatar

@sarapnsc: If you weren’t being serious, then that was excellent sarcasm on your behalf. Lurve for you!

And to answer your question of what I could be worried about: HOW ABOUT E-V-E-R-Y THING. =)

sarapnsc's avatar

@jcs007…..... I was by no means being serious!
Rule of thumb of mine here on fluther, chat boards and in my personal life…. I don’t discuss religon or politics with people I do not know well. It’s an endless flowing river….

People seem to get down right ugly about it and can’t seem to have a good debate without relenting to personal attacks.

I just thought I’d throw that in there for a chuckle!

Darwin's avatar

@sarapnsc: Excellent answer! (And I’m a Texan). :-)

deaddolly's avatar

I was leaning towards Obama, but willing to see who McCain picked (cause I think he’ll die of old age soon). i was excited to learn he chose a woman. Then she opened her mouth and I read more about her.

It cemented Obama in my mind…even tho, I know he’ll have a hard time with the rednecks accepting a black person for President. I live in Wisconsin and up in Northern Wisconsin…they’ll have a hard time with it.
It does not hinder my decision to vote Democratic.

Darwin's avatar

Why does skin color matter to the presidency?

dalepetrie's avatar

Darwin,

Shouldn’t matter, doesn’t matter to me, to deadolly, to you, or to any intelligent, thinking person. Problem is, America has its fair share of those who are neither intelligent nor thinking.

Back on Feb 5 when Minnesota held it’s Caucus for the Democrats, I had no idea where Minnesotans stood on the Obama vs. Clinton choice, but I had been an Obama supporter from Day One, so I stood in a soul crushing line to cast my ballot.

When the results came in, I looked at the Secretary of State website to see how the numbers were shaping up. You may recall, Minnesota went for Obama over Clinton by a 2:1 margin. I now live in the Twin Cities, which is a very happening and progressive metropolitan area. Anyway, the county I grew up in was the mirror image of the rest of the state, Obama was very unpopular in the area I grew up in.

The area I grew up in is a northern Minnesoat town where as recently as 1994, a local bar owner refused service to some black patrons (there were very few non-whites in our community, but as our Community College’s football program began to recruit from other states in the early 90s, that changed overnight). I have little doubt that the mentality in Northern Minnesota is that much different from that of Northern Wisconsin, having been there many times myself.

Racism is still alive and well, some of it is blatant, some of it is not. I was listening to a panel discussion with 13 voters from York, Pennsylvania, 7 white, 6 non-white, about race and their Presidential choices, and all 13 went in thinking race played no part of their decision, but all 13 came out of the discussion thinking that on some level it must be important. Most notably all 6 non-whites were for Obama, the 7 whites were split. One could make the claim that non-whites are prejudiced in favor of non-whites based on this, but given that one of these panelists cited persistent fears that despite Obama’s admonitions to the contrary, she couldn’t shake the fear that he “might” have once been a Muslim, and once a Muslim always a Muslim (which is more religious stereotyping than racial, but it seemed unlikely within the context of the conversation that she would have had that fear had Obama been white).

Another recent blip I heard on NPR was a person saying they just couldn’t vote for Obama, because he is black…a bit more blatant.

And in just the past 24 hours, I was reading David Sedaris’ new book “When You Are Engulfed in Flames” and was stunned to come across a passage where he described a sojourn he made with his brother to a trailer 20 miles outside Raleigh, NC to acquire some marijuana, when the dealer’s wife motioned to the remote control and asked him to hand her “the nigger”.

Another less recent example, but still pretty recent, friends of ours from Minnesota moved to Alpharetta Georgia in 1998, and moved back just last year. We visited their new home in November of 1999 and were told that recently while driving, they passed a night club which had a clearly posted “Whites Only” sign indicating their patronage policy.

And as recently as yesterday, journalists were still discussing the Bradley Effect, i.e. the theory that people will tell pollsters that they’d vote for a black person, but when push came to shove, they wouldn’t actually do it, or that people will not want to come off as overtly racist, so they will misstate their intentions. Here’s an article by Sean Oxendine of The Next Right (a website dedicated to rebuilding the Republican party from the grassroots up), where he admits that the advantage still remains Obama’s but that if we do wake up on November 5 and wonder how McCain won, these will be the arguments, and he includes a lengthy analysis of (albeit selected) Democratic primary results to prove his point:

http://www.thenextright.com/sean-oxendine/what-is-the-argument-for-why-mccain-will-win

So, to answer your question, Darwin…I don’t believe skin color matters to the Presidency. But it’s not what I believe that matters…it’s what enough people believe, and if enough people think you have to be white to be President, hello President McCain.

I hope and believe that won’t be the case.

Darwin's avatar

Sorry, I still can’t vote for McCain no matter what his skin color is.

dalepetrie's avatar

I hear he does turn red (at least in the face) every now and then. And he’s been green with envy over Obama’s poll numbers, but I can’t wait for November 5 when he wakes up blue.

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