Social Question

HP's avatar

Another school shooting. This time in Kentucky. Who's surprised?

Asked by HP (4416points) 1 month ago

The NRA?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

148 Answers

flutherother's avatar

I’m not surprised but wasn’t it Texas this time?

HP's avatar

Who can keep track?

Dutchess_III's avatar

So damn sad and we can control this but we refuse to do anything.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

^“We” don’t refuse to. This is strictly on the Republicans.

janbb's avatar

It would seem that being “pro-life” ends at birth for many.

jca2's avatar

Sadly, I agree it’s not surprising and I also agree it’s very hard to keep track of the incidents, the shooters, the circumstances. The parade, the school, the theater, the mall, the college, the this, the that.

The discussion reignites every time – the gun fans will say it’s mental illness, the anti-gun will say we need gun control, the gun fans will say that only the criminals will have guns, they want their guns, it’s their right to have guns, etc. and on and on and on and on and on, and then things quiet down, until next time.

jca2's avatar

Texas not Kentucky, @HP .

elbanditoroso's avatar

Another award-winning day for the NRA and the 2nd Amendment nuts. They must be thrilled.

I’m sure the killer’s parents are proud today too, at their son’s masterful exercise of his constitutional rights.

I wonder if someone in 2nd-amendment land keeps score and tries to keep dead-person production up.

What a sick country we live in. Maybe we just need to kill all 18-year-old white males who own guns.

LadyMarissa's avatar

15 dead at elementary school shooting in Texas. It doesn’t matter which state it’s in, it is still SAD news!!!

gorillapaws's avatar

The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. We should be arming all elementary students with semi-autos and training them to fight back. ‘MERICA!

LadyMarissa's avatar

This one didn’t make the national news because only 2 were wounded, but 50 shots were fired.

chyna's avatar

I worry about what something like this does to the families, friends, those who were shot, but lived, witnesses, first responders, etc., for the rest of their lives. They will never be the same.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

I’ll say it out loud. I want to take their guns away.

The f*cked up right wing idiots for a long time screamed that we were coming to take away their guns. The left responded that no did not want that. We only wanted common sense gun reform.

I’m through with common sense gun reform. I want to take their guns away.

canidmajor's avatar

@chyna The big picture is that the families don’t get to move on because Alex Jones and his minions harass them into deeper and more profound forms of grief than can even be imagined. I live a stone’s throw from Sandy Hook, and almost a decade later the loss of those tiny children still cripples us all emotionally.

@Hawaii_Jake I agree wholeheartedly.

SnipSnip's avatar

It’s Texas and the NRA has nothing to do with it.

Dutchess_III's avatar

From a friend of mine on Facebook: “14 elementary school kids and a teacher dead in ANOTHER mass shooting.
Kids should come home safely from school.
People should be safe in church.
The worst thing we should see in the grocery store is higher prices.
When we go to the movies, any shooting should be pretended by actors on the screens.

We can’t even talk about gun control, though, because everyone has the RIGHT to have a gun. Apparently, the rights of the gunmen are more important than the rights of their victims.
Can’t restrict gun sales to people under 21 because that’s discrimination. But now 14 kids will never even reach their teens.
Can’t take guns away from people accused of domestic violence because they have rights. Don’t their partners have a right to live free of fear?

Sure, they tell us about the sanctity of life as they restrict abortion access, but they fail to protect the children already here, already loved and wanted. They claim that every embryo deserves to be born, but after that, oh, well.”

canidmajor's avatar

@SnipSnip The NRA heavily funds the candidates that write and support all sorts of stupidly lenient gun legislation. That money gets them elected.
The NRA does indeed have something, in fact lots, to do with it.

filmfann's avatar

Right now, most news channels are talking about the Texas school shootings.
On FOX, Tucker is talking about the Georgia primary.
Fuck these assholes.

janbb's avatar

@filmfann But, but, but – you know the MSM is so biased and always blows these things up out of proportion! ~

cookieman's avatar

@Hawaii_Jake: Completely agree.

janbb's avatar

Chris Murphy, Senator from Connecticut, was just very powerful on this.

raum's avatar

Just watched Biden speak about the Texas shooting. Pretty gross to see all of the comments coming to mock him about not reading the teleprompter. There’s a time and place for things, even if you don’t like the guy. After children have died is not that time.

kritiper's avatar

@Dutchess_III How can we control it? It is a social problem, after all…

Dutchess_III's avatar

The same way other countries who DON’T have mass shootings control it @kritiper.

chyna's avatar

@kritiper By stopping gun buying on line, in flea markets, and by checking peoples background. I prefer no gun sales at all and I own a gun. I would gladly give it up if everyone had to.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

Is everyone enjoying their freedom and “rights”?

JLeslie's avatar

Heartbreaking. I can’t imagine what it’s like for the families and that entire community.

The NRA benefits for sure, but both political parties get some benefit from not solving the gun issue. The difference is, the Democrats are willing to give up the wedge issue to pass legislation to curb gun ownership and they promote solving problems without guns or intimidation with guns. Republicans defend people showing up at protests with guns, and argue it’s all innocent.

This country is more and more a horror story news item.

LadyMarissa's avatar

The death toll has risen to 21…18 children & 3 adults.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

The States will never have sensible firearm laws, both sides just go to their prospective corners dig their heels in and just scream at each other.
I am a firearm enthusiast and things like this make me ill.

Jeruba's avatar

@SQUEEKY2, what are the rules in Canada?

NovDel's avatar

@Dutchess_III And yet, where were all of these gun-kissers when the shooting started? Running for cover like everybody else. Yet these people claim to be ready to get the toys out if the government does something they don’t like.

gondwanalon's avatar

It’s well past time to lock down schools with high security and armed guards. If that was done after the Sandy Hook elementary school slaughter then many school shootings including this one could have been prevented.

canidmajor's avatar

@gondwanalon That was done after Columbine, but after a while people relax a bit.
And what it’s really time for is to implement measures that will prevent this super easy access to firearms, and, more importantly, a return to campaign finance reform, so the gun lobbies can’t keep arranging the election of people that will write, promote, and support legislation that enables this kind of thing.

And please, spare me the “these guns were obtained legally” crap, there is a lot that can be done to avoid these scenarios.
In no other country in the world do schools need security measures of the level we do.

ragingloli's avatar

Yes. Ban books that kids are not allowed to read. Ban discussion of gays. Ban the teaching of the country’s racist history. Ban backpacks. But leave the guns alone! Just turn schools into literal prisons instead! Complete with armed guards wardens and metal detectors!
What utter nincompoopery.

JLeslie's avatar

It’s not only the guns, it’s the direction the US society is going. The underlying issues of income disparity, and that lower income people often live in unsafe conditions (I am not talking about this shooting, I mean every day in their neighborhoods). Lack of empathy and that being cruel is acceptable. It contributes to strife, depression, frustration, anxiety, and desperation, just to name a few.

The Republicans don’t want to solve those other issues either.

jca2's avatar

In the school district I live in, the schools are locked. There are police in uniform and security guards that I’m sure carry guns although they’re concealed. You can’t get into the school without showing ID and they give you a visitor tag with your photo on it. You can’t get into multiple doors – there’s one main front door that you have to enter through, so they’re very aware of who is in the building that’s visiting. On the news, from Uvalde, someone was mentioning that all schools should have single point of entry. I don’t know why all schools all over the country don’t have locked doors and at least one cop on premises, and tighter security. It may be a band aid solution, but it would still help.

NovDel's avatar

Not surprised, but I know what the solution will be. More guns! Guns for the teachers! Guns for the janitor! Guns for the dinner ladies! Guns for everybody! It’s the only problem I know where the the solution is considered to be more of what’s causing the problem.

gondwanalon's avatar

@canidmajor Yes protection of schools from monsters with guns is not easy or cheap. It’s worth the effort to save lives.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

F*ck the Second Amendment.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You guys could have very strong firearm laws and not even touch the gun itself, go after the ammunition make it that you have to have a license to buy it, store it , and how much can be at your residence.
Ban high capacity magazines, bump stocks,that sort of thing and see you leave the precious gun alone.

canidmajor's avatar

Remember, @SQUEEKY2, these are the same people who freaked the fuck right out when asked to wear a little piece of cloth or paper on their faces during a virulent plague. There is no talking sense here.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Yeah I fergot about that sorry.
Well stay safe and keep your head down ,these shooting are far from over.

chyna's avatar

I doubt the second amendment was written with killing groups of children in mind. Repeal it.

Dutchess_III's avatar

REPEAL IT!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I know this horrific event has you screaming repeal it, but it will just make the other side dig their heels in even more.
Your country can’t even agree on sensible firearm laws ,think repeal it will do any better?

KNOWITALL's avatar

The gun lobby is very powerful. In 1977 it formed its own PAC to channel funds to legislators.

Most Reps are for stronger, sensible gun laws.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Then why do they vote against any that are put forward @KNOWITALL ?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 The politicians getting paid off? That’s a fairly obvious answer.
I’ve never voted on gun related issues, that I recall.

canidmajor's avatar

Then it really doesn’t matter if “Most Reps are for for stronger, sensible guns laws.” if their elected officials don’t implement them, does it?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@canidmajor I suppose that depends on whether you prefer an uncomfortable truth that could foment positive change, or a lie that simply breeds hate so more kids die.

KNOWITALL's avatar

All I’m saying is that a lot of Americans of all parties distrust government. At some point we must band together on some of these issues to stop these government officials from destroying our country.

Why is a database for guns so different than the opioid database already in use?
The problem is that states like mine don’t even require you to register a gun currently. They probably think starting now is futile but I’d disagree.

But I’m not on the NRA payroll.

kritiper's avatar

“When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.” Did I have to say it? It’s a people problem, not a gun problem.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@kritiper I agree with you on that, actually.

But do we just keep throwing up our hands and letting little kids fight our battles on gun control instead of we adults?
I’d prefer those crooks in government take the hits thab children, and I think we can all agree it’s out of hand. Maybe each state’s gun lobbyists can start losing wrongful death suits?

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Response moderated
HP's avatar

You can think this is a people problem if you want. But it might pay to notice that its a problem other people don’t seem to suffer to our ridiculous extent. Of course it’s a people problem.. people with GUNS. And it is worse than stupid to believe any people on earth is going to avoid these incidents when the guns outnumber the people. If you actually believe these shootings will diminish as open carry grows ever more fashionable and the gun surplus is at a point where people can now arm their pets and toddlers if the notion hits them, well good luck with the future.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I have never even come close to needing any of my guns for protection against humans.
Plus they are so locked up even under extreme duress it would take 10plus minutes to get them out and loaded, easier to use the metal baseball bat just inside the hall closet,and glad to say I have never needed that as well.

HP's avatar

The problem here is of course not with people like you. The problem HERE is that anyone can get a gun. It’ easier to locate and acquire a gun in this country than to locate a can of Dr.Pepper. Had I any need for a gun, even in this city, I truly believe I could simply walk down the street, break into any 3 random cars and reach under the driver’s seat. Honestly, who here on this site believes they can’t have a gun in their hands within an hour,?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@HP Are you saying we are already so saturated we can’t start a database of sorts and make a bipartisan effort?

Certainly anyone can get a gun, fact.

It’s going to take loud outrage from ALL parties to block all that money, we all know that.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

More dead kids. . . . .

No action . . . .

NRA sends more money to Congress . . . .

REPEAT . . . .!

HP's avatar

@KNOWITALL. What i’m saying is that a database at this point would be about as meaningless as current firearms licensing requirements. I would be willing to bet the number of illegal numbers of unregistered firearms exdeeds those registered by orders of magnitude.
In this country. And the glut of both is only growing by the minute. And just as with all our other problems, were the infflux of guns magically cut to 0 overnight, these incidents will continue growing for several years.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ HP Fair point, but if legal owners such as myself were asked to register our guns, I bet those numbers would surprise you.
Do you know I met and talked with a mass shooter here, several times in fact? This guy was the biggest, craziest, most outspoken WS I’ve ever met (via the job.) He went and shot up what he thought was a Jewish group of people.
Unless we change racism to a mental illness, I’m not sure what could have stopped him. On the surface, his racism was ugly but harmless. I personally felt he was dangerous but because he wasn’t actually rational during our business dealings.

https://www.npr.org/2021/05/04/993604289/man-who-shot-and-killed-3-at-kansas-jewish-centers-dies-in-prison

Jeruba's avatar

@SQUEEKY2, asking again: What are the rules in Canada?

HP's avatar

It wouldn’t surprise me one bit. The same pepple abiding by the law now will be exactly the same folks who would comply with the new law. And with rare exceptions they are not the ones responsible for the carnage.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@HP Exactly. If we don“t collectively grow up and stop the hate and intolerance, how are we making progress?

SQUEEKY2's avatar

@Jeruba Legal gun owners have a P.A.L that is a possession,acquisition certificate, if you have hand guns you must have a restrictive certificate as well, the handguns must be registered, and stored in accordance with the firearms law, and there is more but that is the top few right off the top.

RocketGuy's avatar

Some countries have death penalty for illegal possession of a gun. No need to take guns away, just kill anyone who walks around with one.

Or we could take the Canadian approach and require heavy regulation.

jca2's avatar

What is so unfortunate in the US is that the right wingers will never advocate for stricter gun laws, and if a right wing politician did advocate for stricter gun laws, they would never receive endorsement from their party or from PACs and other sources of election funds.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@jca2 I asked one last night about this and he literally just laughed and changed the subject.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

These shootings will never end, because both sides can’t find a middle ground to start on.

HP's avatar

I don’t think that’s it Squeek. The gun situation mirrors exactly the narcotic epidemic. Guns, like dope are everywhere, and ADVERTISED to sell. In such a situation human nature dictates that the laws aren’t worth a shit. We are thus doomed here in America. My only satisfaction as I strap on my flak vest and reach for my vintage B A R is the certain knowledge that our problems will be visiting YOU Squeek and soon. Get ready

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Senators bankrolled by the NRA:

Mitt Romney: $13,648,000

Richard Burr: $6,987,000

Roy Blunt: $4,556,000

Thom Tillis: $4,421,000

Marco Rubio: $3,303,000

Joni Ernst: $3,125,000

Josh Hawley: $1,392,000

Mitch McConnell: $1,267,000

Ted Cruz: $176,000

KNOWITALL's avatar

Two of those are my state. Hawley and Blunt.

Brian1946's avatar

I’ve heard that the police were slow to respond.

This might because it was in TX, so they had to respect the shooter’s 2nd Amendment rights, and no known fetuses were endangered. ;)

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Any body know of a motive yet?

kritiper's avatar

I can’t help but wonder where the kid got the money for all that stuff? Those AR-15s are about $1500 each and he had two of them, and a pistol. Then he bought 375 rounds of ammo and somewhere he got body armor..
I think too many parents try to buy love for their children. We buy cars for them. We buy all kinds of stuff for them. The kid at Sandy Hook was the same way: His mother bought his gun for him.
I think we need to quit buying “love” for our kids and let them save up the money to buy their own stuff. Then when school is out for them they can face the facts of procurement and life without feeling so lost without Mommy and Daddy’s “love” that they can only think about killing someone because their life has, in effect, ended.

RocketGuy's avatar

Who knows? Maybe he worked and saved up $$ by living at home. Parents might have been proud that he was saving all kinds of $, not knowing what his plans were.

LadyMarissa's avatar

He was staying with his grandmother who he shot in the face before heading for the school. I’ve seen no mention about his parents.

To add insult to injury, the cops were waiting to go in then arrested & tazed parents of children inside who felt that they couldn’t wait for the cops to save their children & went in themselves. Now the cops are bragging that they had him contained when he had walked into the classroom & locked the door behind him & contained himself BEFORE he started firing. One little girl who survived asked “Why did they do this to us?” the girl asked. “We’re good kids. We didn’t do anything wrong.”

This whole thing is breaking my heart!!!

LadyMarissa's avatar

There’s a new fatality…the husband of the teacher who was murdered died this morning from a heart attack.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I heard that Lady. So sad.

Watching the Movie “Runaway” about an unmanned train running on the track. The scary train is red. The train that’s gonna save us is blue.
Red is always used to denote evil.

Brian1946's avatar

@Dutchess_III

“Red is always used to denote evil.”

And in some cases, unnecessary bloodshed.

ragingloli's avatar

As if things were not already bad enough, it now turns out the cops lied when they said they engaged the shooter before he entered the school. They did not. No one did.
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/26/us/uvalde-texas-elementary-school-shooting-thursday/index.html

So these pigs, decked out in gear, sat around outside, refusing to go in, because they were afraid to get shot, while they happily tased and brutalised parents that were trying to go in themselves.
They waited almost an hour twiddling their thumbs, and it took a border patrol swat team to do their jobs for them.
This is the reason for 1312.

jca2's avatar

Yeah it’s all over the news now. The cop at the press conference was saying they had to wait for tactical gear, vests, sharpshooters, etc. Meanwhile, the news reports that the protocol when there’s an active shooter is not to wait for anything but to go in. They said the parents were crying and begging the cops to go in or to let the parents go in, but an hour passed.

The shit is going to hit the fan very soon. They better get their lies straight.

janbb's avatar

The answer does not seem to be more men with guns. In Parkland the school guard stayed outside too.

JLeslie's avatar

First I’m hearing of the officers hesitating. Why did they lie? That seems pretty stupid if people were there to witness what happened.

I’m not defending the police, but this guy had a semi-automatic weapon, so I wonder what the protocol is in that situation?

Interesting that it was US border tactical control that killed the shooter. I didn’t know that until now. I didn’t realize they would be a reinforcement that could be called in.

jca2's avatar

@JLeslie: The protocol is as I wrote it – when there’s an active shooter, the police need to move in to neutralize the threat (meaning move in and kill him/her).

One of the commentators on the news said one problem is the different law enforcement agencies likely had different radio frequencies. I realize it’s easy for us to play Money Morning Quarterback but with videos and bullet signatures and radios and cell phone towers and all that, it will be pieced together eventually.

JLeslie's avatar

@jca2 Radio frequency seems like no excuse. WTH? 911 has access to all rescue don’t they? Seems like communication should be able to be sorted within a minute. I would think there is protocol for when multiple reinforcements need to be called in and how that communication is executed. That’s really disappointing if they screwed that up.

It doesn’t sound like the police had good tactical experience. You would think they could have drawn the shooter out (into the halls) so they could kill him.

I can’t imagine for those kids and parents. Heart wrenching. This incident is my breaking point. Now, I really feel like the US is in a downward spiral.

jca2's avatar

One mom was on the news crying that her daughter just received a certificate that morning, and the mom and dad attended for the ceremony. The mom was crying that she usually takes her kids home after that, but the daughter didn’t ask to leave and the parents didn’t push it, and they left her and now she’s dead. Another mom said her daughter was saying she had a bad feeling that morning but the mom sent her to school anyway. Imagine the guilt these poor people will be living with now? They’‘ll never get over it.

JLeslie's avatar

I can’t imagine it. They would have to medicate me for weeks or months. I would want to throw myself off of a cliff the anxiety and emotional pain would be so overwhelming.

JLeslie's avatar

I just saw someone from the police department, maybe the chief, taking questions and the guy to his credit seemed to want to be completely transparent. He said the cops didn’t go in because the on-scene commander thought it was a barricade situation not an active shooter. He said in active shooter situation the cops go in whether they have protective gear or not, the only priority is to kill the shooter.

janbb's avatar

^^ Well, they sure fucked up big time, didn’t they?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Every school I go to (which is a lot) all the doors except the front door, by the office, are locked.

LadyMarissa's avatar

@JLeslie That’s what they’re claiming. There are 911 calls from a little girl inside the classroom who was calling every 3 to 10 minutes asking for help & giving updates on how many kids were still alive. She called 6 times in 45 minutes & it was still about 5 minutes after her last call before the cops burst in to rescue those kids.Even an untrained idiot could have figured out that it was an active shooter situation. Even IF he had barricaded himself in the room, there were a minimum of 21 shots in less than 50 minutes…that registers as an active shooter to me!!!

janbb's avatar

@LadyMarissa Can you imagine the ingenuity and bravery of that little girl? How sad!!

LadyMarissa's avatar

No, jan, I cannot imagine having to be that smart at 10 y/o. There was an 11 y/o girl in the class that her friend was shot & she had the wherewithal to paint herself with the blood from her friend & pretend that she was dead in hopes that he wouldn’t think to shoot her. Once she got home, her mother was up all night with her having anxiety & panic attacks in the aftermath. I can’t begin to imagine how a 10–11 y/o will deal with the PTSD coming out of this tragedy!!!

janbb's avatar

^^ I read about that girl too. The gun lobby and those whom they fund have blood on their hands!

LadyMarissa's avatar

According to Newsweek, https://www.newsweek.com/salvador-ramos-arrested-4-years-ago-planning-attack-when-he-turned-18-1710867, the shooter had been planning this attack for 4 years. He announced when he was 14 years old that when he became a senior in 2022 that he was going to shoot up a school & NOBODY thought to followup on that threat & he was allowed to buy 2 guns!!!

SQUEEKY2's avatar

That is insane, up here your red flagged instantly if you threaten anyone especially with firearms.

JLeslie's avatar

@LadyMarissa Here’s what I think, I think this official was telling the truth. He also said it was the wrong call, that it is obvious now it was the wrong call. He said he was there to answer questions, and that the facts of the situation will help them and every other police department to learn from what went wrong and hopefully do better if or when there is a next time. He cried at one point saying what matter is the children and their families and not how the police are doing right now, that their job is protect people and risk their lives when necessary.

I don’t know if the 911 operator didn’t communicate that there were children calling in saying they still needed help. Even if she did, the commander in charge might not have sorted it correctly in his head. It seems possible he assumed all the children barricaded in with the shooter were assumed to be dead already and that other children were calling in. It was chaotic I am sure. I am not excusing it, just saying even if the shooter was dead from suicide, so me children might still call in, because they might not know the up to the minute situation.

What I can’t excuse is I don’t care if he is assumed to be barricaded or if the shooting stops for a while, I think the police should assume he is alive and dangerous and go in to kill him period. Some sort of lull in the massacre doesn’t mean it is over. Even if he was barricaded, what is to stop him from getting a second wind and suddenly start shooting up the place again? It makes no sense. He needed to be stopped. The official giving the press conference said the protocol for an active shooter is to kill him, they do not need to try to take him in alive or anything like that, not from what I heard today.

The children were amazing in what they did handle. They were so young, calling 911 and they seemed to have an amazing grasp of what was happening. One girl had her friend shot and killed right next to her and then the shooter went into the next room. The girl put her hands in the pool of her friend’s blood and wiped the blood all over herself so she could play dead if the shooter came back. Makes me cry writing about it. Such a smart thing to do, and showed such courage and stamina while in the face of such danger.

chyna's avatar

I’m having a hard time believing the police couldn’t hear the gun shots still going off as they sat there all safe and sound.

janbb's avatar

^^ It is maddening.

Brian1946's avatar

The worthless “good guys with guns”, did nothing but detain desperate parents while two unarmed teachers, Irma Garcia and Eva Mireles, gave their lives protecting those children.

gorillapaws's avatar

@Brian1946 “The worthless “good guys with guns”, did nothing but detain desperate parents while two unarmed teachers, Irma Garcia and Eva Mireles, gave their lives protecting those children.”

That’s why we need to arm the kids! The problem is not enough guns. From 8:00 to 9:00 they learn about multiplication, from 9:00 to 10:00 they learn about suppressive fire and cover, from 10:00 to 11:00 they learn about how slavery was a good thing for the slaves and that evolution is a hoax, from 11:00 to 12:00 they learn about rapid reloading, muzzle discipline and doorway clearing. It’s common fucking sense people. With enough guns, suicidal gunmen will be too afraid to go on rampages…

And what’s with all of the prohibitions on the types of weapons? Why can’t we have fully automatic machine guns and RPGs? The second amendment guarantees us the right to keep and bear arms. M16s and RPGs are arms. Madness. The more firepower we have the less likely these incidents will happen.

JLeslie's avatar

@chyna Good point. Have you seen or heard anything said about that?

Brian1946's avatar

@gorillapaws

To add to your utopian vision, we should also have gorillas with guns on the security detail!

chyna's avatar

@JLeslie No, I don’t think it’s been addressed yet. It’s just so heartbreaking.

gorillapaws's avatar

@Brian1946 Excellent idea! With literal armed gorillas on patrol, suicidal gunmen would be crazy to try to shoot up a school.

JLeslie's avatar

Ugh, just saw a clip of Ted Cruz saying, “what stops armed bad guys is armed good guys.”

@chyna I just saw more of that same press conference, I learned now he is the Director of Public Safety not the Chief of Police, and he questioned why was there a 40 minute gap, why if the children were still calling 911 why was nothing being done, did the 911 operator not communicate the information or did the officers not take appropriate action.

To me the officers did not take appropriate action no matter what, but the details are important also, it matters if 911 also did not do a good job. It all needs to be investigated.

I was listening to the parent to who asked the police to give him protective gear and he will go in to try to save save the children, and it reminded me of George Floyd. All of those people wanting to to do something to help Mr. Floyd and the cops made it impossible. I assume there were cops who would have gone in if given the order, but something is really wrong with what happened.

jca2's avatar

I’m smelling resignations, firings and lawsuits.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

And there freaking well should be!^^^^

LadyMarissa's avatar

I can’t help but wonder IF it would have taken 40 minutes to make a decision on what to do IF it had been an all white school…or IF a school that Ted Cruz or Greg Abbott’s kids attended??? Cruz is also saying that guns aren’t the problem, but doors are the problem

JLeslie's avatar

From what I understand the shooter got in through an open door that should not have been open. Did someone leave it open on purpose? Did they break the safety rule?

@LadyMarissa I was surprised no one has brought up the area of Texas, and I assume the school, is mostly Hispanic. Maybe because the shooter is Hispanic, but your point is about how the police treated the circumstance not the shooter.

jca2's avatar

The police down there seem to be mostly Hispanic too, so I don’t think the Hispanic part had much to do with their reluctance to enter the building.

JLeslie's avatar

^^That makes sense. That part of Texas is mostly Hispanic.

LadyMarissa's avatar

^^ Uvalde is 54 miles from the US/Mexican border. The 2020 population is approx 16K with a Hispanic population of 78.5%. It’s Matthew McConaughey’s home town. The local funeral home has offered free services to all of the victims.

JLeslie's avatar

Not surprising. The state of Texas is over 40% Latin American. Texas was Mexico what? 150 years ago? I’m terrible with history dates.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

I see a lot of suicides in law enforcement, sad to see it.

chyna's avatar

@JLeslie I read somewhere (and of course can’t find it again) that a teacher had left the door unlocked so they could run out to their car to get their cell phone. I’m finding it very hard to believe that in just those very few moments a door that was unlocked for a very few moments, a deranged gunman happened by to try that door and BEHOLD! A miracle! The door is unlocked!
Since it was awards day for the students, my guess is that they left the doors unlocked so it would be easier for parents to come and go. Just my guess, though.

JLeslie's avatar

@chyna Oh wow. So, if the teachers purposely broke the rule for convenience; they are probably consumed with guilt. Although, if the shooter was determined he would have found another way in probably.

raum's avatar

Reading the updated timeline, it doesn’t make sense.

If the shooter strolled in quietly and caught them off guard, I’d understand. But I’m reading that he started by shooting into windows. If you hear gunshots, how long does it take to close and lock your door before the shooter walks around from the window, through the school entrance and down the hallway to the classroom. This doesn’t make any sense.

That’s not even talking about the call that being barricaded in a room made it no longer an active shooter situation.

My head is exploding.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

WE have our problems up as well, but I sure do love Canada.

JLeslie's avatar

It’s common to freeze when presented with danger, we don’t know how people reacted.

I heard one teacher turned off all the lights in her room and had the children all huddle in a corner. The gunman looked into the room, didn’t see anything I guess in his haste, and moved on. That teacher probably saved all of their lives. I was thinking of a classroom, which corner did they hide? Or, where? Classrooms are usually wide open spaces. Were they up against the wall where the door is? So when he looked in they weren’t visible. My mind was spinning when I heard that wondering about the details. The children must have all been silent. That’s the problem with very young children sometimes it difficult for them to be quiet. Unbelievable.

raum's avatar

My gut feeling is that the timeline isn’t right. I don’t see two teachers deciding to leave their door open after hearing gun shots. One person freezing, maybe? Two people deciding to prop the door open to get their phone? While there were already students with phones in the classroom? That does not sound right.

janbb's avatar

@JLeslie That’s why they have active shooter drills in school. so the teachers and the kids know what to do and where to go. It is horrendous that they have to do this.

JLeslie's avatar

@janbb I thought I heard that school didn’t do those drills. Maybe I misunderstood what I was listening to. It would make sense that they had with some of the things these children thought to do.

@raum I wonder how much they are questioning the teachers and children? Having people recall can increase their trauma and chances of PTSD. Would anyone go after the teachers as partly culpable? I guess it would be suing the school maybe not the individual teacher.

raum's avatar

@JLeslie I don’t think anyone would legally go after the teachers. But to me, it does feel like they’re trying to pin this on the teachers because it’s easier to pin on someone who’s not here to defend themselves. This whole “they left the doors propped open” after hearing gunshots does not sit right with me.

raum's avatar

@JLeslie I did think about how horrifying it probably was for the medic to have done so many interviews with so many stations. For the interviewer, they were tasked to get the story. But for him, it must have felt like tearing open a newly stitched wound each time. Probably not even stitched at this point. Just jabbing a finger into a fresh wound.

JLeslie's avatar

@raum In the past people believed talking things out was good therapy, but now there is a belief that recalling lots of details etches all the memories like stone in the brain possibly causing more chances of PTSD. In fact, drugs used for PTSD or acute trauma inhibit memory.

People should talk if they need to, but typical probing questions that counselors used to ask are now not encouraged by some parts of the psyche community.

There have been studies done obviously, and that includes studying Holocaust survivors.

Like any psyche thing, it varies what helps people heal.

I thought the doors were left open initially, but now you’re saying after the gun was fired already. The police will not be able to escape some blame.

It sounds like the border patrol ignored what the police commander was saying, thank goodness.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

You people have been talking about this horrific event for days now,and regardless who gets to be blamed for this or that,do any of you think anything truly constructive will come out of this?
This 18year old I would like to know and probably never will did he do it for the noteority, or was it full on just hate?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 he supposedly said as a 14 year old he was going to “shoot up a school” Well duh !!
You have cash and are 18; you can buy any guns you want, thank you Governor Abbot and State of Tex-ass !

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I saw that on the news as well, but 14 year olds say a lot of shit.
Still doesn’t say the real reason for it.
There are ways to get firearm laws in without ever touching the gun itself, like making sure you have to be licensed to buy and possess ammunition,ban high capacity magazines,push for safe storage of firearms in the home.
But even those will never happen and these shootings are far from over.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

That’s the point @SQUEEKY2 Tex-ass took away the background check.

You got cash, you got a gun. That is the way the run Tex-ass !!!

@SQUEEKY2 You’re trying to make sense and being logical, that is not the way the run tex . . . . . ASS.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Then we all have to admit these shooting are far from over.

chyna's avatar

^It’s been far from over since the Columbine massacre in 1999.

janbb's avatar

There will be March for Life rallies in many cities on June 11. I plan to go to one. It’s not much and it won’t change anything but at least it’s something to do.

https://marchforourlives.com/march22

LadyMarissa's avatar

They’ve changed their stories so frequently that I don’t know how reliable this is…on June 1 they are saying that the teacher propped open the door & when she heard the gun shots that she ran out & closed it not realizing that the lock didn’t catch when it closed. Then later in the day they were saying that the teacher never propped open the door.I ‘m NOT even going to try & second guess them. I’m sure that IF she had propped open the door that she’s having terrible nightmares!!!

raum's avatar

She’s not having terrible nightmares. She’s dead. Both teachers were killed. :(

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Since this horrific event there has been another in California,and a Hospital in Oklahoma ,I think it would be safer to visit Baghdad than go to the states.
There has to be something done ,that doesn’t punish the law abiding firearm owner, and keeps the guns out of these freaking sickos hands that kill people.

Brian1946's avatar

I could see where the NRA would be opposed to abortion and any gun controls.
This would lead to more unwanted kids, with unobstructed access to whatever firearms they want.

LadyMarissa's avatar

@raum She was not one of the teachers who died. Her name was never released. She now has a lawyer giving her account of what happened that day. She’s claiming that when she closed the door that the door would not lock & she called 911 to report gun fire near the school.

Brian1946's avatar

One of the heroic parents that the useless “good guys with guns” detained was Angeli Gomez:

“Angeli Gomez, who personally entered Robb Elementary School and rescued her two children while cops did nothing outside, has now been threatened by law enforcement to stop telling her story publicly.”

Dutchess_III's avatar

There is no evidence of any of that @Brian1946. I don’t necessarily doubt it, but there’s no back up for that story.

Brian1946's avatar

Other sources are running the story and searching Snopes using her name yields no results, so I’m giving her and the other victims of TX the benefit of the doubt.

Just because you haven’t seen any evidence doesn’t mean that there isn’t any.

I’m much more interested in supporting the victims and telling their stories, than I am in expecting forensic accountability from them.

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