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jca2's avatar

What do you think about the rape case against Donald Trump?

Asked by jca2 (16088points) April 27th, 2023

As you may know, Donald Trump is in court this week, in NYC, because someone is accusing him of raping her in a department store dressing room 30 years ago. She told two friends at the time but was discouraged from bringing it to the police because of Trump’s influence.

In typical Trump fashion, he has insulted her by saying she’s not his type. He posted negative things about the case, to where the Judge presiding over the case admonished Trump’s attorneys about his comments and warned that he’s opening himself to libel.

I am not one to defend Trump but I don’t know how someone could defend themselves from charges when the accuser can’t give a date that the crime(s) occurred. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff (the accuser).

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51 Answers

mazingerz88's avatar

I hope she gets some sense of peace and closure at the end of it. No matter what the outcome.

Acrylic's avatar

I don’t believe a word she’s saying.

KNOWITALL's avatar

Her diary not mentioning it seems odd to me. And diaries are admissable in court as evidence.
If he did it, I hope he’s found guilty, regardless.

chyna's avatar

She told several people at the time. One of them advised her not to say anything as trump has 200 lawyers that would ruin her.
He did say she wasn’t his type, yet in a disposition, when shown a picture of her from that time, he thought it was his ex wife Marla Maples. So I think she was his type.
Do I think he did it? Yes because he is just that arrogant. Will he get found guilty? Probably not. He gets out of all of his misdeeds.

elbanditoroso's avatar

I think her raped her.

I think she is telling the truth, as painful as it is for her.

I have no respect for rapists.

canidmajor's avatar

@chyna, most wealthy powerful men get away with this stuff. Reporting rape, even in these modern days, often doesn’t even get the beginning of justice, as the “what was she wearing” league is still strong.

It’s disgusting, especially at a time when women’s rights and autonomy are being stripped from them, to understand that these scumbags have an easier time getting away with stuff.

Zaku's avatar

I haven’t seen enough evidence, but many signs point to it being entirely credible that Donald “grab ‘em by the pussy” Epstein-chum Trump would very plausibly have raped people.

flutherother's avatar

The only thing I find hard to believe about Donald Trump is that he was ever elected president of the United States.

Call_Me_Jay's avatar

He was found on camera in private bragging about “grab them by the pussy”.

Virtually all his public statements have proven false.

Gosh, who to believe?

jca2's avatar

I believe he did it. I don’t think they can prove that he did it.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@jca2 Yes, innocent until PROVEN guilty. Even Trump.

canidmajor's avatar

@KNOWITALL This is a civil case, the standards are different.

jca2's avatar

It is a civil case and the standards are different but the burden is still on the plaintiff.

Brian1946's avatar

In most civil trials, the plaintiff’s burden is to provide a preponderance of evidence (>50% for their case), not proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

filmfann's avatar

He will be convicted, and going forward will be called “the twice impeached, convicted rapist”.

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Trump is TOAST !

seawulf575's avatar

Another case of someone trying to use Trump to keep themselves relevant.

canidmajor's avatar

And that right there ^^^ is why women often don’t stand up for themselves. Because they are dismissed and denigrated. There is no “keep(ing) themselves relevant.” She and her family will likely be threatened, and perhaps harmed and her name will not be remembered, Only this.

How ignorant so many are that they assume that these women knowingly put themselves in harm’s way to try to get some justice. How easily you dismiss battery when a woman experiences it.

Forever_Free's avatar

Trump is a louse of a human being. I think it happened but I do not think it can be proven in court.

I hope she is able to find some closure in at least taking this forward.

jca2's avatar

I think it’s horribly insulting, trivializing and misogynistic to say this woman is going through this scrutiny just to remain relevant.

gorillapaws's avatar

Fact: Powerful men are consistently protected from facing consequences for raping or otherwise sexually assaulting women. Jeffrey Epstein & Harvey Weinstein got away with it for decades. This produces a chilling effect on victims/survivors reporting their abuse.

When a woman steps up to make a claim of rape or assault, that claim should always be taken seriously and never dismissed as attention-seeking. I think getting your fingernails ripped out with pliers would be less painful that going through the process of accusing a powerful man of rape. It shouldn’t be accepted outright without further investigation, but it damn sure ought to be taken very seriously when someone has the courage to do so.

I believe Jean Carroll. (I also happen to believe Tara Reade, Christine Blasey Ford and Anita Hill).

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor Isn’t it interesting that a woman can say anything she wants, any time she wants, about a man and we are just supposed to believe her blindly? Because we all know women never lie, right?

Okay, with that logic, then why aren’t you screaming to get Biden indicted? After all, Tara Reide claimed he sexually assaulted her years ago. She claimed it at the time, she told her mother about it, she has told others as well and her story hasn’t changed one whit. She’s a woman and was sexually assaulted and she couldn’t lie by your standards, so where is the outrage?

My stance on things like this are 100% the same every time. Take the accusation and start looking at the facts, of which timeline is one. If the guy actually did do the crime, he certainly deserves to do the time. Because I actually do believe that men can and do these sort of things. But if you care to stop cannonizing women and demonizing men, you might stop to look at things going on with this. She was a writer who hasn’t published much of note in a long, long time.

She was a writer for SNL and for Elle magazine as an advice columnist. Her claim has no backing at all. She can’t give a date of the alleged event, has no evidence at all except a story she wrote in 2019, 24 to 25 years after it supposedly happened. She didn’t really tell anyone about it, there is no physical evidence, nothing. Rape has no statute of limitations in NY. If she was really raped, there is obviously not enough evidence for even Alvin Bragg to follow up with. Her book, where she claimed it happened came out in 2019, before the 2020 election. She made sure to file a defamation lawsuit just before the election. Defamation, not rape. To cap it off, she filed a second lawsuit for Battery and Defamation just 9 days after he announced his candidacy for the 2024 election. Apparently all the defamation claims stem from him saying she isn’t his type and that he denies her claims. Just remember, if a woman accuses you of anything and you deny it, you are defaming her.

She is largely unimportant these days and is craving attention.

canidmajor's avatar

@seawulf575 And you are consistently the one protecting the wealthy white men.
Timeline means nothing. Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t, what I consistently object to is your ongoing attitude that “they should have just reported it” with no regard whatsoever to how the system actually works. You constantly present any arguments you may have from the perspective of White Man’s Privilege which allows for no recognition of same.

And your constant “whataboutism” is just tiresome.

How you have not seen me behave in any given circumstance means, literally, nothing. What I have seen you say, in multiple circumstances, is what I speak to, here.

chyna's avatar

Wow @seawulf565 You are really a jerk. Wealthy white men have always gotten away with treating women like dirt. And we all know that trump is the proven liar here. He’s also a criminal, a cheat, and incites riots because he is a pouting bully that didn’t get his way. That alone tells me he did it. I’m out on this one. I can’t stand that any person with half a brain takes up for trump. Even his friends and daughter deserted him and they know way more than we do.

mazingerz88's avatar

^^The US has more good people in it than cruel assholes like trump and his cult. Take heart.

seawulf575's avatar

@canidmajor I have stated numerous times that I believe all people should be held to the same standard. I stated this in my last post here. To claim I am consistently protecting the wealthy white men is ludicrous. I might say you are the one that is consistently demonizing wealthy white men. After all, you are the one that feels he is guilty because the woman said so.

Additionally, my “whataboutism” is a case in which YOU, not I, are protecting the wealthy white man. By not even wanting to address it. It is an identical case with the exception of the victim. In the Biden case, the victim DID speak out immediately and afterward as well. Where was your outrage at that? That behavior by you, always protecting Democrats, is what comes through consistently for you.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna Yes, I’m the jerk because I’m fair to all. Your feelings about Trump cloud your objectivity. They don’t cloud mine.

KNOWITALL's avatar

He has a valid point. It doesn’t matter if it’s Trump or Biden, it’s a criminal act.

jca2's avatar

I googled Biden rape charges and found that Tara Reade has a history of lying under oath and in court procedings. That alone would cast serious doubt on her accusations. I don’t believe that Trump’s accuser has such a history of lying. Source below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_sexual_assault_allegation

I also looked into how the civil charges could be brought to court for Trump but not for Biden, and it’s because of a NY law, explained below.

https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/11/trump-sued-under-new-york-law-extending-statute-of-limitations-in-sexual-assault-civil-cases/

Cut and pasted from the jurist.org link (above):

“In the amended lawsuit, Carroll sues Trump for battery regarding the alleged rape in 1995 and defamation regarding the alleged false and degrading statements he made against Carroll on social media and in the press in the years following her claim that he raped her.

Carroll brings civil action under the act against Trump for her alleged rape committed by Trump in a New York City department store dressing room in 1995. In the complaint, Carroll stated that she did not report the rape at the time because she feared Trump would “ruin her life and livelihood” if she did.

New York’s Adult Survivor’s Act went into effect Thursday, allowing survivors of sexual assault or abuse who were 18 years or older at the time to file a civil lawsuit against their abuser past the state’s statute of limitations. The act was signed into law by Governor Kathy Hochul in May and amends the statute of limitations for civil actions related to sexual offenses committed against adults in the State of New York. Under the act, civil actions which were previously barred by the statute of limitations are now revived. Survivors now have a one-year window to file the allowed civil actions for cases of sexual assault for which they previously could not file suit past the time limitation placed on the crime.”

Since we’re engaging in whataboutery now, I posted the above to show the difference is like apples to oranges.

gorillapaws's avatar

@jca2 But how did Tara Reade go back in time to have her mom call in to Larry King Live? or are you saying she’s been planning this since 1993?

Biden has a history of women complaining about him crossing boundaries (just google “Joe Biden Sniff hair” and there are dozens of really uncomfortable examples being inappropriate on camera with women and young girls) and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s raped other women in the past that are too scared to come forward (for the same reason Jean Carroll’s friends told her to keep quiet).

And even if Tara Reade did lie later in life about something totally unrelated, how does that negate her accusation? She told people at the time that it happened. There very well could be records proving/disproving her claims in the University of Delaware, that Biden won’t allow to be released.

jca2's avatar

As I said in my comment, there’s the statute of limitations which is what enabled the Trump case to go to court, @gorillapaws. Even if the Biden case were believed (which I haven’t researched the details enough to answer your question about), it could not be taken to court at this time with the laws the way they are. Do I think Biden could have raped Tara Reade? I don’t know the details so I would give the benefit of the doubt and let the jury decide but apparently they’re not going to get the chance to decide.

seawulf575's avatar

And my point behind all of this (bringing up Reide/Biden) is that there is great outrage and claims that if you don’t believe the woman you are scum. Yet in the case of Reide/Biden there is actual support for the assaulter and degrading of the victim from the same people that call me a jerk and whatever else.

In both cases, there is a long period from the events to the present day. In the Trump case, there was nothing until 2019 ever brought up. In the Biden case, the victim told her mother immediately and has tried to bring it up periodically, only to be lambasted by Democrats.

In the Trump case, there is no statute of limitations on rape in NY, but there isn’t enough of a case to actually charge him with a crime. And be honest, if there were even a vague chance of “getting Trump”, the Dems would be all over it. In the Biden case, it wasn’t called rape, it was called sexual assault which has a shorter statute of limitations in DC.

But from an outrage perspective, Biden is the POTUS. Why isn’t anyone really upset that he sexually assaulted a woman? I have heard all the outrage about Trump, but there is crickets about Biden. Is the (D) really that powerful to all of you?

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575
1. Trump’s accuser did tell two friends and that’s documented. One friend was the NY reporter Carol Martin who discouraged her from reporting it.
2. Biden’s accuser has a history of lying under oath (read the Wiki link)
3. The burden of proof is much different for civil cases than criminal cases. That’s why Trump is not being charged with a crime in the NY rape case. An example of how the burden of proof is different in civil cases is the OJ Simpson murder trial. Remember how he was found not guilty in the court case, but guilty in the civil case? The difference was the burden of proof.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Response moderated
jca2's avatar

Biden’s accuser, lies, cut and pasted from Wikipedia: When I read the lies, it reminds me very much of the lies of George Santos. Read on:

On May 22, 2020, Reade’s credentials and the veracity of her testimony as an expert witness in domestic violence cases was challenged by several California attorneys against whose clients she had appeared.[74] Reade had served as an expert witness on multiple cases involving domestic violence in Monterey County, California.[74] Defendants’ attorneys and the district attorney’s office announced the review of cases to determine whether Reade misrepresented her credentials, and whether her testimony significantly influenced the outcome of the cases.[75][76][77]

As part of a court case in 2018, Reade testified that she had received a bachelor’s degree from Antioch University and falsely stated that she had worked as an “online visiting professor” as a member of the faculty at Antioch. When asked by the media why there was no record of her degree from Antioch, Reade claimed to have obtained a bachelor’s degree through a secret “fast-track” program for survivors of sexual assault.[76][1][2] Antioch university denied the claim and stated that Reade had attended the school only for three academic quarters without graduating. Reade professed to have obtained the undergraduate degree through an alleged program for victims of abuse that protected her identity and also that her degree was “fast-tracked” by the president of the university at the time, Tullise Murdock.[76][2][17][78][75] This also was denied by the university, which stated that no such protected program had existed and Murdock said there had been no special arrangements.[17][75][1]

Reade’s resume also lists her as having worked for Antioch University Seattle as an “Ongoing Online Visiting Professor for degree completion”. Again the university denied this. Reade had not been a faculty member and only worked in a part-time position performing administrative work at the school as a “Prior Learning Evaluator”.[16][76][79]

Reade testified that she had never taken the bar exam, but a blog post of hers written in 2012 expressed hopes to pass the California bar exam on her third attempt.[74] She testified that she had worked as a legislative assistant for Biden; according to U.S. Senate records, Reade provided mostly non-legislative work there as a staff assistant.[74] Finally, Reade’s resume said she worked for Biden from 1991 to 1994; however, Reade worked for Biden for eight months from 1992 to 1993.[74]

Subsequently Reade was investigated by prosecutors in Monterey County, California, for lying under oath about her educational credentials in her appearances as an expert witness on domestic abuse.[74][80] The investigation determined that she had made false statements under oath, but Reade was not prosecuted for perjury because those statements had not been material to the outcome of a legal case.[81]

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 So you are blaming the victim. You have tried numerous times to push this same story. As @gorillapaws asked, did she go back in time to tell her mother or have her mother call into Larry King? But hey, Biden is a Democrat and as we all know, the Dems can do no wrong. Just blame the victim if they do.

jca2's avatar

No, @seawulf575. I’m showing that Biden’s accuser has a history of lying. You keep saying nobody is paying any attention to the story told by Biden’s accuser, yet everyone believes the story told by Trump’s accuser. I’m simply pointing out that Biden’s accuser has a documented history of lies. I am not aware of any such history with Trump’s accuser. Perhaps, just perhaps, this is why Biden’s accuser is not believed by many.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 Go back and look at the arguments I have seen here concerning the Trump and Biden cases. And go back to look at how I react to both. I don’t say Carroll is lying because I love Trump and am willing to excuse him for anything (as some have claimed) and I don’t say Biden is guilty because I hate him and want to see him fail. Every time a jelly attacks me for my attitude of controlled disbelief, I am accused of basically blaming the victim. And yet, here you are, trying to justify why the victim should be ignored.

Again, you still have skirted the questions of how did her mom find out about it when it happened and how did she call into Larry King to discuss it? Your answer to this seems to be “Tara Reide lied later in life”. So that is an excuse for blaming the victim. No further thought. So E Jean Carroll comes up with a story that really can’t be confirmed, can’t establish a date, can’t establish really anything at all about something that supposedly happened 25+ years before but she is supposed to be believed without question? Come on. You are smarter than that.

And her story sounds fishy as well. According to her, she ran into Trump at Bergdorf’s and she started talking and flirting with him. She can’t remember the date or even the month or year, but she claims it all happened with crystal clear recollection. I’ve never been raped but I believe it would be traumatic enough that I would mark it on the calendar. I’d probably never be able to forget at least the month it happened. Trump supposedly said he was looking for ideas for gifts for another woman. Their conversation ended up on lingerie and she offered to model a body suit for him. She didn’t object when he supposedly entered the dressing room with her. She claims he went from easy-going and charming to out-of-control rapist in a heartbeat. She said she kneed him and ran out of the room. So already she, a married woman at the time, claims she had no problem flirting with another man, a powerful man; had no problem offering to model lingerie for him; had no problem with him being in the dressing room; and then ran, apparently half naked, out of the dressing room and out of the store. Yet there is no record of this anywhere…other than in her book. She claims she told girlfriends but not her husband about being raped. She claims that as an advice columnist she frequently counselled women to report attacks to the police and to seek therapy….neither of which she did herself. She lost her long time job at Elle Magazine because of her obsession with Trump and her malicious claims against him. Looking at many of the jellies on these pages, I can see how someone would act with this sort of thing. Her claim of him sticking his fingers inside her sounds like an embellishment of his statement of “grabbing a woman by the pussy”. All in all, it just doesn’t hold together. She is going for a civil suit because (a) there isn’t any evidence so a criminal case is out and (b) she can get tons of money and, more importantly for the Trump obsessed, she can smear him before the next election.

jca2's avatar

@seawulf575 I don’t have time to delve deeply into the two cases. I haven’t followed either case carefully and right now I don’t have time to research all. You have your opinion and I have mine. I’ll read your comment later but I am not spending the weekend arguing with you. I did express above (way above) that I don’t think that Trump will be found guilty (or maybe I implied that) even though I believe he is. We’ll have to agree to disagree.

mazingerz88's avatar

@seawulf575 You are beyond ridiculous. Not sure if Carroll herself used the word “flirting” with trump. If she did use the word it will probably factor into the jury’s decision.

Now if that’s only how you described it after reading her accounting…that
reeks of misogyny. A woman excited, smiling and laughing with a man…oh she’s flirting with him!

And please, you don’t have a vagina. If and when you decide to get one then maybe you could try again and tell people what you would have done if someone was raping you or after you got raped.

seawulf575's avatar

@mazingerz88 I have absolutely no problem with a woman flirting. But a woman flirting, offering to model a body suit lingerie, and inviting a man into the dressing room? Please. I think you need to check your premises. At some point you leave flirting and enter open invitation. It is just as possible that she did run into Trump and even had a quickie in the dressing room, but then got in a snit when he didn’t anything else or, here’s an idea, nothing of the sort ever actually happened. No fling, no rape…nothing.

seawulf575's avatar

@mazingerz88 Meanwhile, since you are defending Biden, doesn’t that make you a mysogynist?

jca2's avatar

I just googled her accusations and testimony about the event, and I saw that Trump ordered her to model the lingerie. Nothing about her offering to model it.

I guess if she was flirting, she “wanted it” as many men would like to believe. However, what she described was not too flirty by most standards.

Cut and pasted from her testimony (NY Times): Ms. Carroll, a longtime advice columnist for Elle magazine, told the jury how she had bumped into Mr. Trump as she was leaving Bergdorf’s after work one evening.

“He came through the door and he said, ‘Hey, you are that advice lady,’” she testified, adding that she replied, “Hey, you’re that real estate tycoon.”

She said she was delighted when he asked for her help selecting a gift for a woman. “I love to give advice, and here was Donald Trump asking me for advice about buying a present,” Ms. Carroll testified. “It was a wonderful prospect for me.”

Trump says “she’s not my type” and he never met her, but when shown the photo of her from the 90’s, he asked “Is that Marla Maples?” I am guessing the accuser was Trump’s type if he is confusing her with Marla Maples.

gorillapaws's avatar

@jca2 “Biden’s accuser, lies…”

Everyone lies. I bet if we went through Jean Carroll’s life with a fine toothed comb we’d find plenty of examples of her lying as well. That doesn’t mean we should ignore her accusation against Trump. And I’m sure Virginia Giuffre has lied at some point in her adult life, that doesn’t mean Epstein didn’t abuse her. Maybe Reade started lying precisely because the man she idolized sexually assaulted her, told her “she was nothing” and then fired her? Perhaps that changed the trajectory of her life? Made her more jaded?

She has multiple people she confided in at the time. Let’s not blame the victim. And again, there likely would be records that are in the University of Delaware that would prove/disprove her claims.

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 That makes her testimony even that much more suspect in my book. She was a customer at the store as was Trump. How did he “order” her to model it for him? And why would she? Let me guess, he hypnotized her and forced her against her will, right?

And as I have already stated, I understand flirting, but when you agree to model lingerie and even are okay with the guy being in the dressing room, you’ve left flirting at the curb and are pushing for full on lust. And to claim it was her job? that’s just ludicrous. Come on! Apply some common sense. Drop the hatred of Trump angle and think honestly and openly about what her story is and see if it makes sense. It doesn’t. Actually it does if it never actually happened. As I said, if it was something consensual the details might have been remembered, but all the details of what date or even month it was would be fuzzy. And the claim of rape falls apart by her own story when she talks about beating away her attacker and running for safety. It’s Bergdorf’s for God’s sake! If she got attacked in a dressing room and she ran out half dressed and obviously distressed, help was all around her. Let me guess, in a moment where she just fought for her life (so to speak) and got away, she suddenly started thinking of all the possible negatives of speaking out against Trump, right? And that stopped her from even screaming as she got away or even running to the nearest customer service person for help? Think about that one for a few minutes. Is it even logical?

Response moderated (Unhelpful)
jca2's avatar

@seawulf575 Obviously, she wanted “it” and he “gave her what she wanted.” ~~

jca2's avatar

@gorillapaws Biden’s accuser lies under oath. Under oath. Yes, almost everyone may have told a lie or multiple lies in their lifetime, but to lie under oath is considered especially egregious, as you hopefully are aware. No, saying she has a history of lying under oath is not “blaming the victim.” Saying a woman was flirting or wearing a mini skirt is “blaming the victim.” Saying someone has a history of lying under oath is saying their storiies are suspect.

gorillapaws's avatar

@jca2 So you’re saying she lied about it to her family and friends in 1993, but kept it secret from the public until other women came forward and then she joined them? How does that make any sense?

seawulf575's avatar

@jca2 No, the closer approximation of what I am saying is: Her story smells like last week’s fish.

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