Social Question

jca2's avatar

What do you think about this opinion piece that suggests that Biden should drop out of the race so someone else might step up and beat Trump?

Asked by jca2 (16369points) 2 weeks ago

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2024/05/20/biden-trump-polls-2024-election/73702186007/

I don’t normally read USA Today but someone was talking about this article.

To sum it up, if Biden drops out, another candidate would have a better chance of beating Trump. The article makes suggestions the Dems could use that would have a great chance of beating Trump.

What do you think?

I voted for Biden last time but now I think he’s too old. I was saying I was hoping the DNC would give him a talking to and convince him not to run. If he bowed out, nobody would fault an old guy who said he wanted to spend more time with his family. I also don’t like Trump (never that) but I don’t have much hope of Biden beating Trump. Now the Gaza people are anti-Biden, many blacks are anti-Biden (NY Times had an article about it the other day) and then there are those (like me) who don’t think he’s a bad guy but he’s just too old.

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52 Answers

elbanditoroso's avatar

Nutty. Absurd. Idiotic. Suicidal.

If Biden pulls out, Trump winds in a landslide.

There is no democrat that has the voter love and respect needed.

If this scenario was going to occur, it should have been started 18 months ago. Now it just asinine.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

I agree^^ and the too old thing is getting very tiring, Trump is just a few years younger and shows more signs of dementia than Biden does.

JLeslie's avatar

I also think it is too late, and how exactly does it work? The people don’t get to vote, the reps at the convention get to decide? That sounds like a perfect bonanza for the Republicans to say the Democrats are undemocratic. Biden should have stepped aside a long time ago, or at minimum the Democrats should have had a primary.

If they try to do it, it better be someone very well known who takes his place, and I do not mean Kamala Harris.

I think the Democrats took a big chance keeping Biden in and helping Trump win in the primaries. It is frustrating.

Zaku's avatar

As other said, while it would be great if the Democrats had a convincing and popular younger alternative, they should have organized that starting at least a couple of years ago, not now.

The age thing is ridiculous, considering the Biden administration has actually been doing a kick-ass job in almost every way, and he shows far fewer signs of age than his snoozy incontinent word-salad spewing demented criminal seditionist racist rapist MAGA opponent.

seawulf575's avatar

I have commented on this topic all along. The Democratic National Convention is in August this year. The way the Democrats choose a nominee has nothing to do with anything. If they want to choose someone that isn’t even running at that time, they can.

The Dems chose Biden originally for brand recognition. They chose Kamala as the running mate not because she was greatly popular, but because she was so abhorrent that the Repubs would hesitate to impeach Biden. But the last 3+ years have show how horrible their choices were. So yeah, Biden is in a world of hurt come election time. He has nothing to run on other than “Hate Trump” and too many people have woken up to that game.

My prediction all along has been that at the last minute (at the convention) the Dems will choose someone who hasn’t even been campaigning. Probably Michelle Obama. This will put a sudden change into things and will be done at the last minute so that there won’t be any time to prove or disprove anything about the candidate. That is the only way “Hate Trump” can be used in place of actual policies and plans.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 Interesting reason you gave for Kamala. We could say similar about Pence, although I felt Pence was chosen mostly to make happy the Evangelicals happy who had voted for Ted Cruz in the primaries. To make sure they showed up to vote.

I think the main reason Kamala was chosen was she had a decent resume and was Black. I never was a big fan of hers.

That Republicans think Biden would be impeached sounds so pie in the sky to me. I was annoyed that Democrats talked about impeaching Trump from the day he got into office too.

chyna's avatar

@seawulf575 Although I would love for Michelle Obama to run and be our next president, she has said many times that she will not run, isn’t interested, don’t even think it.
I get it though. So many cruel haters out there. She doesn’t want to put her family through all of that again.
I agree with @elbanditoroso wholeheartedly.

jca2's avatar

The article I linked gives some Dems that poll better than Biden, @elbanditoroso.

Kropotkin's avatar

“I was saying I was hoping the DNC would give him a talking to and convince him not to run.”

They did, but the next day Joe forgot all about it and carried on as usual.

gorillapaws's avatar

I believe this has been the plan all-along. They didn’t want a primary where a progressive could risk ending the wine caves, insider trading, “party strategist consultants,” and kickbacks after leaving office and all the rest of the corruption.

There were no debates. The primary objective of the DNC is to prevent progressives from winning, the secondary objective is to prevent a 3rd party on the left from taking form and a distant tertiary is to defeat Republicans (but never by such a wide margin that they won’t have an excuse not to pass anything meaningful).

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie My reasoning with Kamala is very simple. She was running for the candidacy and couldn’t garner more than about 1% of the vote. She is not liked by anyone. So making her VP only makes sense if you want to avoid having someone reasonable to fill in, if Biden gets impeached. There were plenty of other women he could have chosen, plenty of black women as well.

seawulf575's avatar

@chyna Yep, she has said numerous times she isn’t interested. If you truly believe it. She says she doesn’t want to put her family through it again, but think about that: Malia and Sasha are in their 20’s. Unless they are trying to play in politics, they have nothing going on.
They are already covered by Secret Service so that wouldn’t change. No, I don’t buy it. She wants to come in as the savior of the party, making herself a martyr in the process (“I’ll put myself and my family through this just for the good of the country”). If she had said 6 months ago, or even today, that she is interested, Biden would have been toast and the Repubs would have plenty of time to dig up dirt on her and to hold her policies up for scrutiny.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

@jca2 Are you now a Trump supporter since you’ve bought into his rhetoric that Biden is too old?

gorillapaws's avatar

@Hawaii_Jake “Are you now a Trump supporter since you’ve bought into his rhetoric that Biden is too old?”

It’s not the age it’s the fact that he’s senile. There are plenty of older people that are sharp as a tack and there are plenty younger than Biden and Trump with cognitive decline. Are you seriously trying to gaslight people into thinking Biden’s mental acuity is perfectly adequate to hold the office of the President for 4 more years? I don’t think Trump has it either, for the record.

Demosthenes's avatar

Too little, too late.

canidmajor's avatar

Here we go again with people trying to explain why the chicken dinner is the same, or worse, than the shit-with-ground-glass dinner.
Goody.

janbb's avatar

@canidmajor. Agree completely

JLeslie's avatar

@jca2 I remember the pressure to choose someone Black for VP. I gave credit to Congressman James Clyburn when he was asked should Biden choose a Black VP, he answered, “I’m not going to tell Biden who he should choose.”

There is constant emphasis on the Black vote and trying to make sure they turn out. I find it frustrating that they aren’t going to show up if the candidate isn’t Black. Is that true? It’s not a very nice thing to say about Black people. There are more Latin Americans in the US than Black people anyway, if we want to talk about a minority vote. I guess the Black vote is more reliable for the majority to go to the Democrats than the Hispanic vote maybe.

@Hawaii_Jake Are you saying we can’t be critical of our party’s candidates and policies? This is why political “news” is full of selective truths. Only portraying our party in a good light, rarely getting the whole picture of what is happening. Well edited video and cherry picked news items out of context. Both sides do this so much.

@seawulf575 I think Biden probably genuinely liked Kamala or maybe as couples they synced well all 4 of them.

KNOWITALL's avatar

,Personally I think Democrats could beat Trump easily with a different candidate.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie ” I think Biden probably genuinely liked Kamala or maybe as couples they synced well all 4 of them.” Bless your heart. I don’t believe liking someone or fitting together as couples plays much role in selecting a running mate. It’s politics. And I have serious doubts that Biden had any choice in it at all.

seawulf575's avatar

@KNOWITALL I’m not so sure. I really think it will come down to policy. I don’t believe “Hate Trump” or “Those dangerous Republicans” is enough to win the election. The economy is horrible, immigration is out of control, 70% of Americans think the policies pushed by the Dems are the wrong path to be on…it is a mess. If they throw in another candidate who is nothing but a puppet or who is pushing the same old garbage policies, I don’t believe it would beat Trump. Their only hope is someone like Michelle Obama at the last minute coming in to be the nominee. That would be enough flash for them to say whatever they want and the mindless drones would eat it up.

jonsblond's avatar

“The age thing is ridiculous, considering the Biden administration has actually been doing a kick-ass job in almost every way, and he shows far fewer signs of age than his snoozy incontinent word-salad spewing demented criminal seditionist racist rapist MAGA opponent.“

I’m with @Zaku. I’ve watched many of Biden’s speeches and I have not seen any sign of him being senile. I think people who say this are only watching short clips taken out of context by those who want to discredit him.

I also believe Biden can beat Trump and it would be a huge mistake to replace him now.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@seawulf575 I really just meant those that feel they are choosing between two old white guys that are cringy.
Policy is important but we can’t blame Biden 100% for inflation dueto Covid. At least he’s finally opening up our oil.
I may still vote Libertarian at this point. Sigh.

seawulf575's avatar

@KNOWITALL I pretty much blame the economy entirely on Biden. When Trump turned it over, the inflation had spiked and gone back down. As soon as he took office, Biden undid everything Trump had done, implemented his own policies, and set the entire skyrocketing inflation into motion. Nothing he has done has helped the average person, it has only hurt. When he took over the average gasoline price was $2.39/gal. By July of 2021 it was over $5/gal. That was all his doing.

canidmajor's avatar

Oh dear, @seawulf575, look it up. The POTUS never has anything to do with the price of fossil fuel products. The price of gas was so low in 2020 because of the pandemic, it started to go up again when people were driving more when the vaccines became available. Learn a thing.

SQUEEKY2's avatar

Wulfie, our gas is $6.94 a US gallon still is that Bidens fault as well?

Tropical_Willie's avatar

Must be @SQUEEKY2 that nasty,old, cranky BIDEN ! ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

jca2's avatar

@Hawaii_Jake I would never vote for Trump.

That’s what’s really annoying to me now, I don’t like Biden and I don’t like Trump, and RFK is a total lunatic, so what are my choices?

I hate to break the news to you but Trump isn’t the only one who is saying Biden is too old. Polls show many Dems feel the same way.

jonsblond's avatar

@jca2 I’m trying to stay positive with my thinking about all of this. I truly believe after this election we will be done with men in their 70s and 80s running for president. When Biden is elected and the time comes for him to bow out, Kamala can finish out the presidency with competent people supporting her. The only people willing to work with Trump are ignorant yes men. Biden is the better choice to ride out the next four years, in my opinion.

seawulf575's avatar

Oh dear, @canidmajor https://www.gasbuddy.com/charts Take a look for yourself. Put the chart of gasoline prices out to nine years and look for yourself. Normally, you’d be right. The POTUS doesn’t have anything to do with fossil fuel prices, however they can. Policies that impact production can most definitely have impact on fossil fuel prices. And your boy has the policies that drive it up. I could point out that as of the 2020 election gas prices were steadily going down. They took an immediate upward turn when Biden was elected. it was about $2.10/gal on election day. By July 1 it was up to $5.01. Biden talks about helping the economy. He talks about gas prices coming down. Yet it is still at about $3.60/gal which is 71% higher than what he inherited. And the $2.10 wasn’t a fluke. It was closer to being in line with the previous 6 years, maybe a little on the low end of average.

Learn a thing.

MrGrimm888's avatar

Biden was an “emergency candidate,” for the Dems.
Although they had 4 fucking years, to counter Trump, they never developed anyone.
Joe polled well, against Trump.

After a disturbingly close Biden victory, and with all that is at stake, AND Biden’s age, 4 more years later, and they still have not developed another candidate.

If, like me, you don’t think they should have run Hillary, then the DNC has done little, since it lucked out with Obama.
Another candidate, that came in fast under the radar, at the right time.

I have talked about this until I could vomit. BOTH parties, should have a strong handful of candidates at all times.

Harris was definitely brought in, in part because of her race, and gender.

Nothing new here.
That seems to be the idea, with most VPs. That they add balance to the stronger leanings of the president.

That’s why Biden was the VP, in the first place. An old-school, white man, with a long reputation for bipartisan work, to give comfort to those with pause for electing the further left Obama.

McCain was tethered to an idiot female, in hopes of getting women to vote.

Trump indeed was fitted with the robot-like, ultra-conservative Pence. To calm people we thought, at the time, would be ethically opposed to Trump.
Although it is now crystal clear, that Trump supporters, do NOT follow the beliefs they espouse.

Noem was picked precisely for the same reasons to possibly make Trump more palatable for female voters. Especially this time, when they will unquestionably be voting against their interests if they vote for Trump.

In addition, a Democratic candidate would need campaign funds. No Democratic candidate has had ANY fundraising, except for Biden.
Even if they wanted to throw Newsome in at the last minute, he would have almost no money, that could be used in a POTUS campaign.

It’s Joe, or bust.

It’s really disappointing, because the GOP is such an enemy to the country, that there is really no comfort supplied by the nation’s “other” party.

As the root of the entire problem now, is that there are only really two parties. And both parties seem now, to be ok with attacking each other, instead of running the government.

seawulf575's avatar

@SQUEEKY2 It likely is. Believe it or not, US gas prices do impact Canadian gas prices. US oil production does impact Canadian gas prices. Look at the link I just gave to @canidmajor. You can click on the tab for Canadian prices. The graph is the same, just the amounts changed since it lists Canadian prices per liter. And economically that makes sense. Oil producers can ship oil to North America. But what is the biggest market in NA? The USA. We have 10x the population of Canada. So the prices are often set for biggest market. If the USA wasn’t here and they were shipping only to Canada, they wouldn’t be selling as much so the prices would go even higher to compensate for the smaller volume being shipped.

Another thing to consider is the taxes your country is putting on gasoline. But that is most definitely another topic.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^That’s a problem, because of the greedy fucks that keep our nation’s dependent on fossil fuels, for short term gain.

“Drill baby, drill,” is NOT a solution either.

Almost 100 Yeats ago, one of the inventors of the diesel engine was “accidentally” lost overboard on a ferry from France to England.

The people who profit from oil, and there political influence, are responsible for a LOT of problems.

It is no coincidence, that the Bush family, was so heavily involved with the Middle East.

gorillapaws's avatar

@MrGrimm888 “As the root of the entire problem now, is that there are only really two parties.”

Let’s be real. There’s really one party, and it’s extremely far to the right of where the voters are on policy. The fighting you’re seeing between the Democrats and the Republicans is WWE levels of performative combat where both sides work for the same company. It’s a show-I’m shocked how many smart people think it’s a real fight. These fucks are all chummy after the cameras are off and they go home to call their donors and then their brokers and get rich making insider trades.

jca2's avatar

@gorillapaws I worked closely with politicians in my last position in local government, and I learned a lot during that time. I used to say the goal of politicians is to get re-elected. First, because many of them are career politicians and that’s all they know how to do, and second, because if they’re not re-elected, they can’t try to carry out the goals of their campaign.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws I’m not sure how chummy they can be now. The West Point professor who I mention a lot, two men who were students of his in the same class became congressmen, one a Republican and one a Democrat. They were told to stop having a weekly lunch together by people in their respective parties, which I think is pretty terrible.

I agree about the performance though. So much of what we see and hear sounds so scripted I can’t watch it.

I don’t agree about the one party, there are some differences, but both parties use wedge issues to get elected, so both parties often will do nothing to fix the wedge issue.

janbb's avatar

@gorillapaws I’m just going to say this once this election cycle because I know it is futile. I am not a staunch Dem and they do plenty wrong but the two parties are not the same. Anyone who believes that is not for a woman’s right bodily autonomy or the freedom to read, against climate change denial or Social Security. You can huff and puff my friend but I am not going to argue the point. The best is the enemy of the good. Like you, I hate the genocide that Biden is enabling but still it is a false equivalency to say the parties are the same. I would have expected more nuancd thinking here.

gorillapaws's avatar

@janbb “against climate change denial”

The Democrats don’t give a fuck about the environment. If the scientists were actually being listened to, we would have begun major efforts to fight climate change. Here’s what that senile and genocidal fuck Biden did for our planet:

“The Biden administration on Monday gave the green light to a sprawling oil drilling project in Alaska, opening the nation’s largest expanse of untouched land to energy production.

The multibillion-dollar project will be located inside the National Petroleum Reserve, about 200 miles north of the Arctic Circle, and could produce nearly 600 million barrels of crude oil over the next 30 years, according to the Interior Department.” (Source)

It’s totally fucking psychotic.

The Dems had plenty of chances to codify Roe into law and never did because it’s a great way to keep getting campaign donations. And Biden said he’d cut social security and then he fucking lied about it.

Which party do I vote for I want to see taxes go back to Reagan’s first term? or even pre-Reagan levels? Which one do I vote for Medicare for all (Biden said he’d veto it)? Which party do I vote for to stop supporting the genocide of the Palestinians? Which party do I vote for if I want to have a planet to live on, or one without microplastics in the water? Not only do the democrats help facilitate that shit, but they are the main force for preventing honest candidates from rising up to fix the fucking problems. They’re paid to be the firewall against meaningful change.

The thing you guys don’t realize is that in the alternative universe where progressives actually took over the party and started passing the popular policies, the Republicans would have shrunk to a tiny, insignificant minority. It’s the neoliberal wing of the party that has consistently disappointed voters and made them stop caring about the political process. They’re the ones that snuff out the fire and energy in the party.

MrGrimm888's avatar

^To me, you’re both right.

The similarities in both parties, are that they are self-serving. Just trying to get and hold onto power.
Neither party prioritizes the people they are supposed to serve, over their own interests.

They have essentially weaponized their responsibilities, and when leaders vote straight down party lines on something they serve nobody.

Both parties have fallen into this state.

The difference is in what is at stake, THIS time.
A Trump victory, will (at it’s most extreme) remove/criminalize women’s reproductive rights.
ANYTHING standing in the way of furthering/keeping the power of white Christians, will be aggressively attacked.
The SCOTUS, has been stacked to help streamline the conservative agenda, while simultaneously shielding Trump from his criminal behavior.

Expect a blank check funded investigation, on Biden.

Most government assistance, and aid will be removed, and the funds given to the most wealthy in tax breaks.

ALL manufacturer oversight, and regulations regarding pollution, WILL be stripped to maximize profits for the wealthy owners and investors involved with things like industrial processes.

I’m not sure how bad things will become, for LGBTQ + people. I just know it will likely push them back decades as far as their rights. We have seen how such matters are governed, when a government is theocratic.

It’s likely that they will try to deport ALL people, who cannot prove citizenship. Even people who have several generations of family that are American.
We’re talking millions of brown people, that they can just hunt down and remove.
It’s impossible not to see life for people who “look” Latino, not becoming really hard.
Like the “stop and frisk” laws, targeting minorities, brown people will need to carry “papers” at ALL times.
I suppose that will look something like Nazi Germany in the 30’s-40’s.

As with last time Trump was POTUS, US international relations will suffer tremendously.
Trump pulling America out of it’s “deal” with Iran, is what has led to many current problems in that region that could start a world war.

Trump has already said, he would prefer to remove the US from NATO. Given his behavior, I HAVE to assume that he indeed was/is colluding with Russia.

Trump will likely somehow worsen trade relations with China, as he likes to do.
Lack of healthy trade, will lead to skyrocketing prices for consumer products that depend on cheap/outsourced manufacturing.
Less trade, will further divide the US and China, and we know China is designing it’s military, for war with the US. Because they WILL invade Taiwan.
And China WILL push it’s borders as far as it can, in the South China Sea.
Biden is not Patten, but he would listen to his advisors. IF China invades Taiwan under Trump’s watch, he will be SO far in under his head, I don’t want to think about it.

Christianity, will be worked into public education. More than it already is. And so, our children will be religiously indoctrinated regardless of our beliefs.

Although there is almost no end, to the damage Trump will do, I will end with the destruction of the democratic process.
Trump, and the GOP, hate stupid things like having to win elections. Best to eliminate them.

We already KNOW (because he has said as much,) that Trump will likely not accept election results that don’t show him winning. With the SCOTUS, he has a chance to steal the election.
Obviously. If Trump loses, he will likely try again to overthrow the government. We know there are enough sheep, to at least make another attempt.

And will Trump ACTUALLY leave, in 4 years? Do you think he will become MORE sensible, as he races into dementia?

There are systematic problems with the US government.

If we are doing triage, we need to address the growing cancerous bleeding tumor that Trump is FIRST.

Otherwise. There will be no reason to fix anything. The US will become intolerable for the majority, and the country will come apart. Maybe and Civil War, or just the whole country going bankrupt/corrupt and breaking apart like the old USSR.

It’s FAR too big if a land mass, to be Christian from the Pacific to the Atlantic. A Theocratic dictatorship, is unsustainable.

Biden, would be more of the same. Not progress. But not a absurd transition, into a Christian version of Pakistan.

gorillapaws's avatar

@MrGrimm888 Why do you think Biden’s on the ballot? Why were there no debates?

JLeslie's avatar

^^I wish the Democrats had been given the opportunity to vote in a primary, but probably there was a good chance Biden would have won, because the marketing would be Biden beat Trump before, he can beat him again.

Which Democratic candidate do you think might have won in a primary?

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie I think Marianne Williamson would have run circles around Biden in a Debate. I know she’s got some new agey kookiness going on, but she’s extremely sharp in interviews and unlike Bernie, I think she would have been willing to go for the juggler in a debate with Biden (and also Trump in the general). Is she “perfection?” Absolutely not, but she’s at least one order of magnitude better than Biden v. Trump.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws As far as I know she hasn’t held any office, is that correct?

Kamala Harris “went for the juggler” in a primary debate, and it was the finishing touch for me to not like her. I guess it can be done without turning people off though.

You would need the media to push her for her to win. That’s where we are in America now.

The Democrats and the media didn’t spend any time promoting the idea of Democrats going out to vote in the Republican primary to prevent Trump from running. Why the hell not?! I brought it up even on fluther and Democrats here and who I know in real life and on facebook just kept answering, “I’m supporting Biden.” I bet if MSNBC promoted voting for one of the other Republicans, then suddenly many of those same Democrats would have convinced themselves that was a good idea. It was a perfect opportunity, because there was no Democratic primary.

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie No she hasn’t held office. She also hasn’t raped anyone.

You weren’t able to vote in the DNC primary in FL. The party just gave Biden the win without letting the people vote. So there’s the democracy at work that everyone is so worried about preserving…

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws Like I said, I wish we could have voted in a primary, but since there was no Democratic primary, I switched parties to vote for Nikki.

By the time the vote was in FL Trump had already won. Not that I think Nikki is great, but because I wanted to keep Trump out of the final race.

Left leaning media demonized DeSantis for 3 years, and even when he won a state primary all media dismissed it as insignificant, so in the end Nikki was the only real shot against Trump, which is ridiculous when you considered she served a position in his administration and constantly said she supported him until she didn’t and now she does again. Not shocking but it is disappointing. None of the moderate Republicans can win unfortunately, the party has been seeped into playing to the Religious Right (base) since Reagan, and even before that.

gorillapaws's avatar

@JLeslie ”...the party has been seeped into playing to the Religious Right (base) since Reagan, and even before that.”

True, though the bigger change is that since 2016 the RNC has been pretending to be populist by pursuing protectionist measures and blaming the Mexicans for everything wrong in the country, not unlike other assholes in history.

JLeslie's avatar

@gorillapaws The attack on immigrants is right out of propaganda guidelines for fascist leaders. Populist too.

I have said all along I think we need to seal up the border better, but framing immigrants as they are all criminals and the cause of everyone’s problems is horrible.

I blame both parties for the mess with immigration, but we had a chance to make it a little better and Trump told Republicans to leave it a mess. Trump was right that it would help him.

seawulf575's avatar

@JLeslie “The Democrats and the media didn’t spend any time promoting the idea of Democrats going out to vote in the Republican primary to prevent Trump from running” I can think of a great reason for them not to advertise it or to push that idea publicly. Optics. What that would say is that the Democrats were trying to manipulate the vote which it tantamount to destroying Democracy.

And I’m not sure it would have made any difference anyway. In many of the Republican primaries, many Dems had registered as Independents and voted in the Republican primaries just to vote against Trump. Yet Trump smashed his opponents even with that. Nikki Haley, in her home state of SC, got 40% of the vote, losing to Trump by almost 20 points. But someone did some polling and found that more than half of those voters that voted for Haley were actually people that were registered as Independents, but had never voted for a Republican in a general election in their lives. They always vote for Democrat candidates. And if they had advertised this tactic, pushing it to “stop Trump”, all that would have done is to (a) rally the right even more, (b) given Trump a great talking point to slam the Democrats and the propagandist media, and© given more states the impetus to change voting laws even more, closing the primaries to either party…have to be a registered Republican to vote in the Republican primary, a registered Democrat to vote in the Democrat primary.

JLeslie's avatar

@seawulf575 I don’t see it as manipulative if they are choosing a Republican they can live with. I see it as manipulative if they purposely help the craziest scariest or most incompetent candidate in hopes that the Democrat will look good next to the lunatic. By staying silent they did just that. Most Democrats think Trump is insane, power hungry, creating havoc in the country, and making it dangerous for minorities. I think Democrats felt Nikki had a much better chance of winning against Biden, so they didn’t want to help her.

If you are right about the backlash and negative side effect for the Dems if the Democrats had pushed the idea, some of what you wrote makes sense, it doesn’t change that Dems could have figured it out for themselves or not dismissed the idea out of hand. Responding to the idea by saying “I support Biden” means they don’t even understand it. If people say they don’t feel comfortable changing parties, or they are afraid Nikki would win against Biden, some sort of thought process, that’s something else.

I don’t support trying to sabotage an election by voting for the worst candidate, I think it is a horrible, dangerous game. Voting for a candidate you like is what voting is about.

MrGrimm888's avatar

@gorillapaws Biden was apparent the only person in the democratic party, that the DNC saw fit to run. We all know, it’s the same “we aren’t Trump” strategy.
Like I’ve said, Biden plays ball, and is overall rational. He listens to his advisors. And he beat Trump before.
Of course, there are likely better options. But would they be a good Democrat, like Biden?

I foolishly assumed the DNC, would have planned better.
Not that I am a Democrat, but I have been forced into being anti-(current)republican.

Biden, alledgedly will debate Trump. That will be interesting.
Trump would be at a MASSIVE disadvantage in ANY other debate.
You forgot, or didn’t mention that Trump has run away with the GOP. He didn’t attend any primary debates either.

I have said before, I believe Biden won, last time, in the debates with Trump. When he got sick of Trump’s clown show and said ”will you shut up, man.
Hillary, allowed Trump to hover in a dominant way behind her.
Believing her class, would overcome Trump’s buffoonary.
I believe had she turned around, just once, and told Trump to get away from her, and stop acting all creepy, she would have won the election. To me, and many others, it was Hillary not sticking up for herself. Unfortunately, like when Bill was not just cheating on her, but doing all sorts of NSFW stuff right under her nose. Hillary, regardless her faults, is NOT stupid.
She let Bill walk on her, so she could ride his coattails.
Ultimately. She was EXPONENTIALLY more qualified, than Trump.
But she didn’t seem to put anything over her career as a politician.
One could easily call their marriage, one of mutual benefit, more than a loving relationship.

Trump is VERY weak, and in FAR over his head. But. He tirelessly works his base. And there are many in the media that obviously have tied themselves directly to Trump.
(FOX (fake)News…..
Trump WAS being used by the GOP. Now. He has run off with the party. Or simply empowered and emboldened the already present but less public preexisting bigotry, of the conservatives.

The upcoming POTUS debate(s) are going to be very similar, to a schoolyard fight.
The bully (Trump,) will be pandering to the Jerry Springer Republicans. His historical accuracy, intelligence, ignorance, lies and really anything that would cause rational people to frown on him, DO NOT affect his base.
They will want Trump to seem to bully Biden, and show all those liberals they are weak, and should fear him. As they will need a calloused leader, to do all the shameless things that the conservatives want, in order to cling to power.

Biden. If I were on his staff, I’d want to give him steroids, before the debate. Anything to increase the public’s perception, that he still can lead with vigor.

We all know Trump has no chance, if he’s debating a competent person.
His lawyers know Trump would be EASY picking, on the witness stand. They have wisely kept him, from getting cornered by a decent DA. That FACT, that his teams of lawyers have NEVER trusted him to be subject to examination by a court representative, should be very telling about Trump’s competency.
When he was bragging about his remembering “person, camera, microphone,” or whatever, was straight out if “The Usual Suspects.” Kevin Stacey’s character, famously tricked his interrogating detective, by using the names of items in the room.
Trump, obviously pressed in a moment, just called out the things he saw at the time.

The GOP, SCOTUS, and the conservative led congress, have shielded Trump from ANY sort of questioning. Because he’s only good, at shouting lies, and using grade school terminology.

@JLeslie Ideally, of course we vote for a candidate that deserves it.
However.
There is a knew wrinkle.
Voting for what you wish to avoid, should also factor in.

IF voters want to support this joke of an election (where the healthiest candidate is a 3rd party guy, who fucking had a worm EAT HIS FUCKING BRAIN,) then vote…..
“ROCK tha vote!”~

JLeslie's avatar

@MrGrimm888 There is nothing new about voting for the least worst candidate. A lot of people in primaries vote for the candidate they think has the best chance of winning in the end, I usually vote for my favorite candidate in a primary. This is the first time I’ve ever switched parties for a primary. If you had asked me 20 years ago if I would vote in a Republican primary I would have said no. I wouldn’t have imagined a scenario where I would do it.

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