Social Question

ragingloli's avatar

NSFW]Do you think that most gentleman's special interest literature is made for closeted paedophiles?

Asked by ragingloli (35224 points ) December 29th, 2012

Think about it.
Think about all the “teen porn” and how they stress that the protagonists are all 18 years old. 18 is the lowest they can legally go. If they could, I am certain they would go lower.
And then consider that they always call them “girls”. Not “women”, “girls”.
And gay porn is no different. Think about all the “twinks” and how they call the actors “boys” instead of “men”.

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61 Answers

janbb's avatar

I think we fetishize young bodies but that is very different from paedophilia and child porn.

Coloma's avatar

I think all porn is exploitive and objectifying, and yes, the obsession with “barely legal” is right up there. As always, porn or guns or anything will not make anyone act out unless they are already disturbed, in which case I do think that there is a very high risk category of people and one never knows what a steady diet of fantasy could lead to. America is a sex, love and relationship addicted society.

wundayatta's avatar

What is a closeted pedophile? If you are saying everyone likes youth, then we are all pedophiles. Boy, the way my grandmother looked at me when she was 80 and I was 18 always made me feel pretty creepy. But I think that is normal. We love youth. We admire it. It is strong and beautiful. And I think every older person covets the strength and beauty of youth to a greater or lesser extent.

As for a love object, or maybe just a sex object, of course youth with it’s smooth skin and powerful acting bodies looks the best. We admire youth in dance and barristas, and sports heros and of course in porn. What is weird is fetishizing age.

So frankly, I don’t think that the pedophilia in society is closeted at all. I think it’s built into us by evolution.

Now perhaps you are talking about pedophilia as in love of prepubescent children. If that’s what you are talking about, then I think not. Even if porn shaves everyone pubes, they still have very clear adult sexual organs and figures. Most are very fleshy.

I think most porn is made for the average viewer with average tastes. That’s where the money is. My guess is that true porn for pedophiles represents a very small portion of the market.

tom_g's avatar

Complicated issue. Have you ever read Matt Ridley’s Red Queen? This touches on sexual selection, youth, neoteny, blonde hair, etc. Also, I agree with @wundayatta that the perpetual race towards youth is something that the entire culture embraces. Just try to ask why women are completely shaved (even here on fluther) and be met with some serious wrath (first hand experience here).

I don’t have any real answers to the question. I suspect, however, that it’s not as simple as porn == pedophilia, however. My guess is that it is probably a case of evolution mixed with a side-effect of porn. Porn seems to lead to desire for constantly different porn to get your kicks. So boundary-pushing seems to be inevitable. “Barely legal” is probably a prescription for both a desire for youthful beauty and the rush of something that is nearly off-limits.

Coloma's avatar

Nothing wrong with admiring youthful good looks and vibrant physicality, but the smorgasbord of porn is outta control IMO.
@wundayatta I have a photo of my 65 year old aunt and my 97 year old grandmother, from years ago, sitting with rapt attention talking with my exes studly young friend at our wedding reception. It is hilarious, the guy is sitting shirtless in his swim trunks on the floor at their feet and boy, are their eyes sparkling! lol

DigitalBlue's avatar

I agree with @janbb about fetishizing young bodies.
I think there is a difference between teen girls and pre-teen girls or children, but I’m glad that we have consent laws.
When I worked in a store that sold porn, I was consistently blown away by how popular the “teen” porn was, that stuff flew off the shelves. That would suggest that most men are closet pedophiles, and I don’t think that’s the case.
I do, however, think that it’s quite common for men to be drawn to youthful, healthy, vibrant young women, which is why this stuff is as popular as it is. I chalk it up to biology, although I admit, as a woman, it bothers me a little bit. Then again, I never look at teenage boys and feel a stirring in my panties.

I don’t understand why it is necessary to include the props in teen porn like bobby socks and teddy bears and pigtails. A lot of the girls in this genre are quite obviously chosen because they look incredibly young. Not teenage girl young, but little girl young. I don’t think it’s meant to necessarily cater to pedophiles, but I don’t think a lot of exposure to that kind of imagery is healthy. Pornography affects what we really do want, or what we think we want, and that sort of thing disturbs me. I have always felt like that line is crossed in popular adult entertainment.

However, I would like to say, that I wish there were more of a market for porn geared toward genuine pedophiles. I think art and 3D/digital visuals would be a good route. I feel like making something like that more readily available would protect actual children from exploitation, and give those who are pedophiles (but not child molesters) a better route to “cope” with their sexuality, rather than being tempted by other options that society (rightfully) deems unacceptable. I can’t say for sure if actual pedophiles are also drawn to this type of popular imagery because it often portrays “teens” as much younger than 18, often much younger than teens, but it wouldn’t surprise me. I just don’t know that it is geared toward them.

marinelife's avatar

Lots of porn features adults and is made for adults.

ucme's avatar

No, I don’t need to think about it either…looks like you’ve done more than enough for everybody.

Coloma's avatar

Personally I like the mantra of “run like hell from temptation.” I am not religious, but, really…if I am trying to drop a few pounds I am certainly not going to be browsing the bakery or looking at pictures of fucking cheesecakes online. lol
I have plenty of willpower but at the same time I KNOW, if I truly do not want to be tempted by something I restrict access to it.
Sure, I might not pounce on that cheesecake today or even tomorrow, but, if it’s in my face, sooner or later I WILL consume it.

I think we all know that whatever cravings we are dealing with in life, the highest choice is to not continually “expose” ourselves to our temptations. I think this is true for everything that has the potential for abuse. I’m not sure some animated kiddie porn would satisfy pedophiles, I think it might just tempt them to seek out something more flavorful.

bookish1's avatar

I don’t think there’s any logical reasoning in this.

I do, however, think that misogyny often goes hand in hand with infantilizing women. (And in the case of gay porn, ‘twink’ is as much a fetishization of a particular body type and gender expression as it is one of age, although there certainly is that as well.) Like I said here just recently, I hate most mainstream porn for its misogyny and gay and racial stereotype bullshittery.

I watch a lot of porn, gay and straight, but I stay THE FUCK away from teen and twink porn, and I’m only interested (sexually and emotionally) in people who are older than me, who are, ya know, well clear of adolescence.

Shippy's avatar

I do think pornography in general is aimed at pedophiles yes. First of all there is the blatant photographs and sites of children that I have come across, some where under 10. Then to keep it legal they do use terms like barely legal, and have bodies that are under developed and hairless. I just wonder at males or females who find this type of body sexual.

Most of the people I know , both in the industry and watching porn prefer mature bodies. Women over 40 if possible. Plus with natural boobs. I have a very good friend who did well in porn until she had a boob job. Her site and her career took a major knock. Some of the biggest porn stars in the world are amateur. Why? Because they have real bodies, bouncing tits, and asses. They are women. I even find (no offense intended) tiny Asian bodies very childlike and leave me cold. Along with some men I know.

I was also watching, just for interest sake, a you-tube video on dead porn stars. There are hundreds of them. Many died from overdoses, hanging themselves, Aids murder and other. I watched a few hours long documentaries of how traumatized women were in porn, and treated basically like shit. I used to like porn, now, because I know too much I am beginning to dislike it more and more.

TheProfoundPorcupine's avatar

I disagree with the idea that youth with smooth skin is best and sells best and also we only admire youth in the likes of sport because the older we get the slower we get hence no 60 year olds playing in the top soccer leagues around the world and it is, therefore, just due to mother nature that we have youths in certain circumstances.

There are a few things about porn that confuse me (no not the plots) and one big thing is this barely legal stuff, but then I guess there is a part in a lot of people that like the thrill of being on the edge with different things, so it is just the porn world tapping into that particular market since they know it undoubtedly exists. I also wonder why there is a fascination in general with loads of tattoos as well but that is maybe another question.

Give me a real woman any day of the week with things that move naturally and where they will not melt if they go near a fire due to plastic overload.

janbb's avatar

From the popularity of porn and the number of people on Fluther who watch porn, I would find it hard to believe that most porn is aimed at paedophiles. Surely if one is in a commercial business one wants to hit a larger market not a narrow one. Which is not to say that child porn is not a thriving business as well.

Shippy's avatar

@janbb I had meant to write, a large portion of pornography is generally aimed at….

Because even larger portions are made for people who enjoy adult women. That part of porn is thriving. Sorry error in my first sentence did make it sound like that.

tom_g's avatar

Also, I could be wrong but isn’t attraction to sexually-developed people not technically considered pedophilia – even if we’re talking about 18 years olds pretending they are 16 year olds? As culturally-inappropriate as it is to be attracted to a 16-year-old, isn’t the term pedophilia reserved for attraction to prepubescent children?

DigitalBlue's avatar

@TheProfoundPorcupine my observation that it sells best is based only in my own observation. I don’t have statistics, but I sold the stuff for years, and teen porn flew off the shelves at a rate unlike any other genre. Following that was lesbian porn (bought by men) and foot-fetish stuff.
I’m not suggesting it’s scientific, just what I observed.

TheProfoundPorcupine's avatar

@DigitalBlue Thats interesting to hear that as I know a porn star personally and they see the amateur and natural side as being the biggest seller.

I wonder if the internet has changed things since now it is easy for anybody to become a porn star if they want to and it has then opened up a market whereby the natural older woman is able to become a star whereas for a long time the big studios focused on fake boobs, teen related stuff etc.

Self_Consuming_Cannibal's avatar

I’d say that illegal child pornography as well as secretly molesting small children is for closet pedophiles.

ETpro's avatar

Actually, there is a whole genre of porn featuring obviously adult women in their 30s or 40s. The pron term for it is MILFs, an acronym for Mothers I’d Life to Fuck. I prefer to look at that sort of material. I will avoid anything that uses “teen” as a selling point. I dislike obviously fake boobs and shaved bodies. Nature’s way is best, in my eyes, and I’m way, way too old to be interested in teens. Hell, a 40 year old is still a kid to me.

Shippy's avatar

@ETpro Don’t forget GILFS..

bucko's avatar

Did it ever occur to you that young women look better than old women?

Coloma's avatar

@Shippy Is that “Geese I’d like to fuck”? ;-)

Coloma's avatar

@bucko Yes, that’s obviously true, but we should still be talking women, not teeny boppers.

wundayatta's avatar

Just made me think of how I see myself from the inside looking out – agewise that is. And although I’m 56, I still think I’m 20 or so. That’s how I picture my ideal self. And of course, if I’m 20, then some woman around my age is who I’d be interested in.

The reality is that I’m old and gray and lucky to still have a wife who wants to say hello to me. Having sex is a bit much to hope for.

But in fantasy, I am only 20. How old are the rest of you?

bucko's avatar

Teen also might be used for lack of a better word to describe an 18 year old.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Where I am at now, I say who cares? It is like someone trying to say stealing from an old lady is worse than stealing from a stingy mister who shorts his workers pay; stealing is stealing. In time past I would say it is a misnomer because adulthood starts far earlier than those (especially Western societies) want to acknowledge; it is more ideology than biology. If there was no way to determine the date of birth of a group of females I believe quite a few who were under 18 would be mistaken for over 18. I would bet my donuts to anyone’s dollars there would not be a man who would say ”Can’t pop an erection behind her, my hormones and Robert Earl tell me she is under 18 in spite of how old or young she appeared”. The main reason a dude will force himself not to see a female as sexually attractive no matter her development is if she is under the age that society says she is not an adult, actual biology be damned. Any guy attracted to barely legal porn here in the US would be a late comer in Azerbaijan, Moldova, and Guam where the legal age is 16yr. Not to mention being way let next to those pervs in Guadeloupe, Bulgaria, France, Israel, and Monaco where the legal age is 15yr. We won’t even mention Kosovo, Italy, or Hungary, where it is 14yr; or even those real nasty pervs in Guyana and Burkina Faso where the age is 13yr. Compared to the rest of the world the US “barely legal” is a joke.

Coloma's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Well…you said it yourself, stealing is stealing, and pandering children sexually is pandering children sexually. So what… 13, 14, 15…same difference.
Doesn’t make it right, healthy, moral, kind or respectful of a young persons need for full physical and emotional maturation before sexuality enters. Pun intended.
That’s like saying poverty in other countries is worse than poverty anywhere. I dunno….does it really matter if you’re eating dog meat in asia or dog food in america?
Both are equally nasty.

bucko's avatar

I don’t even think I would watch porn if it had to be of women my own age.

Coloma's avatar

@bucko I’m sure you wouldn’t, that’s probably why women your age aren’t very appealing to you in real life, nor you to them. haha
What every mature woman wants, a porn obsessed hunk of burning adolescent boy. lol

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Well…you said it yourself, stealing is stealing, and pandering children sexually is pandering children sexually. So what… 13, 14, 15…same difference.
Doesn’t make it right, healthy, moral, kind or respectful of a young persons need for full physical and emotional maturation before sexuality enters Before it gets twisted let me elucidate. You say 13, 14, 15, 16yrs they are all children and should not be sexual less with themselves, the blind leading the blind. In the nations I mentioned they say when a person hits that age, (females especially) those young person are adults, be it young unskilled adults. Unless you are going on record to say most of the world is wrong and the US (not even all states either) have it right that adulthood biologically starts on the 18yr and one minute in spite of biology? Otherwise it is all conjecture based on societies “ick point” and nothing to do with actual physical biology.

Coloma's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Physical biology has nothing to do with healthy psychology. The FACT is, just because a body can reproduce a minimum of a decade before all developmental processes have evolved, doesn’t mean it should. I never said children should not be sexual, have sexual feelings, but they should not be sexually exploited before they are fully developed in EVERY capacity.

bookish1's avatar

Wow, this question got even better after editing!

bucko's avatar

@Coloma you don’t have to be obsessed with porn to know when a chic is in her prime.

Coloma's avatar

@I’ll agree to that, problem is they talk. haha

Self_Consuming_Cannibal's avatar

@bookish1 Yea, that hardly ever happens!

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Coloma (Giving you a chance to rack up a few more larve) Physical biology has nothing to do with healthy psychology. Right, so the age of when a person engages in sexual coitus has little to do with how long they actually been on this planet in many cases.

I never said children should not be sexual, have sexual feelings, but they should not be sexually exploited before they are fully developed in EVERY capacity. Again, there goes the disconnect, who you say is a child is not what someone else in another nation will think is a child. When a person gets 18 by what you are saying, like a pimple, full understanding and ability to have sex flicks on; 17 years, 59 minutes and 59 seconds, too green and inexperienced, aka child. 18 years zero minutes and 1 second fully knowledgeable, aka adult. If humans were like wax, all melting at the same rate or drying like a particular wall paint under the same situation it would be easy to say when everyone was ready but being human some are actually capable before the golden number society, the masses, or principalities say they are and other whom society, the masses and principalities say are ready are far from it.

Coloma's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central You lost me at the juncture of “gets 18” & ” like a pimple.”
Bottom line, the brain doesn’t mature until age 25, too bad evolution screwed up and didn’t shift that around to full brain maturity at 13 and immature reproductive tracts and genitals until age 25. lol

ucme's avatar

Hilarious the way it changed to “gentleman’s special interest literature” it’s like being in a meeting with the fucking queen!!

janbb's avatar

yes – I’m confused at why porn couldn’t stand. Is it because of Google?

ucme's avatar

probably, we do need wrapping in cotton wool…sensitive little souls that we are.

jca's avatar

If you go to a fetish site, like Fetlife, there are tons of groups specifically for “Daddies” and their “little girls” or whatever they call the young girl role playing ones. Apparently, whether we agree or not, there is a market for this stuff.

ragingloli's avatar

@ucme
I was told by the mods that “porn” is apparently ‘too obscene’, so they had me change it.

janbb's avatar

@ragingloli Ridiculous!

El_Cadejo's avatar

wow…seriously…

tom_g's avatar

“Porn” might not be “too obscene”. Rather, if you are encouraging people to visit fluther – even at work – you might be scaring off people who decide they’d rather not keep reloading a page and sending the word “porn” through their IT traffic analyzer.

El_Cadejo's avatar

This question clearly says NSFW….they shouldn’t be loading this page if that’s a concern of theirs.

tom_g's avatar

^^ If the title has “porn” in it then simply loading fluther will load that word.

El_Cadejo's avatar

right didn’t think about that. I just feel like we have a lot more “obscene” titles to questions. Not this point of this one though so I’ll stop derailing.

Coloma's avatar

I’ve always found it amusing that the word “gentleman” is used, as in “gentlemans clubs” or in the case of this questions title. Kinda an oxymoron IMO. True “gentleman” are not hanging out at strip clubs and making porn their number one hobby. lol

tom_g's avatar

^^ I have never been to one, but I imagine that they’re all sitting around a fire in the smoking jackets, smoking a pipe and having a jolly good laugh. Not sure why.

Coloma's avatar

@tom_g Haha..well, as long as you dress the part….lol

ucme's avatar

@ragingloli So that’s where the new users are coming from, Sesame Street!

ucme's avatar

Before i’m roundly chastised by “the powers that be”, i’d just like to stress that I can kind of see where they’re coming from on this, still makes it feel like a kindergarten though…just a bit.

Self_Consuming_Cannibal's avatar

@ragingloli
I was told the same thing about the phrase “belly-slapping action”, but at least that made sense. I don’t see how using the word “porn” is considered “too obscene.”

jca's avatar

Maybe instead of the word “porn” a better phrase would be “dirty pictures.” LOL.

augustlan's avatar

We suggested the phrase “adult entertainment”, but I kind of love the phrasing loli used! And yes, it’s because the word was in the title. Inside the question it doesn’t matter, so long as it’s marked “NSFW”.

wundayatta's avatar

Does it even matter now that nsfw questions are de-indexed?

augustlan's avatar

@wundayatta Yes, it does. The reason we don’t want some words in the title doesn’t have anything to do with Google, it’s to protect our members who might get in trouble at work over it. You know that.

wundayatta's avatar

Yeah, I know you told me that, but as you know, I don’t think that argument holds water. So I thought maybe the google thing would give a practical reason for a policy that doesn’t actually do anything. Are you baiting me? Saying “you know that” practically forces me to explain my thinking yet again.

augustlan's avatar

Whether you agree with the argument or not, you did know what our reasoning was. Why would it have changed?

wundayatta's avatar

I already explained that: Google.

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